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Persona / SMT discussion | "There are fools to pass judgment on."

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Posts

  • GilderGilder Aw snap Macaroni PartyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Someone remind me, what role outside of battle and fusions does the moon play in Devil Summoner? Does it affect treasure like in Nocturne or sales prices like DDS? So far all I've seen is that when it's full or near full the healing spirit seems to charge double. In chapter 1 she either charged 1000 yen or 500. Victor was a total ripoff when the spirit only charged 500 because Pyro Jack alone cost 572 to heal.

    Gilder on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Access to somewhere unless I'm mistaking it for another game. Maybe even a story event or two. It's been so damn long since I played that game-ho.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    According to the DJ guide, the full moon makes accidents more likely(of course), but the phases also affect skill inheritance.

    Waxing: the fused demon will inherit one of the first parent's skills.
    Waning: the fused demon will inherit one of the second parent's skills.
    New moon: default skills only.
    Full moon: all bets are off, random combination.

    Oh, outside of fusions; never mind.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Is there any reason to hang out with an S-Link after you've maxed out their S-Link? Extra scenes? Anything like that?

    Rent on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    In P3, none at all. P4 supposedly has some new scenes, but I never tried them.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • Lezard ValethLezard Valeth Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Quick question about Nocturne:
    In the kalpas are enought deathstones to create every fiend?

    Lezard Valeth on
    firma1m.th.jpg
  • GilderGilder Aw snap Macaroni PartyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    More than enough. I think you have like 6 left over.

    Gilder on
  • HakuninHakunin Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Plus, if if you have a neutral alignment you can get to a Soul who sells Deathstones in one of the lower Kaplas.

    But they're not cheap!

    Hakunin on
  • eternalbleternalbl Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Warning, possibly slight P3 and P4 spoilers.
    Anyone else notice the July dungeon in Persona 3 is the same seedy hotel you spend the night at when you visit Gekkoukan high in P4?

    eternalbl on
    eternalbl.png
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    eternalbl wrote: »
    Warning, possibly slight P3 and P4 spoilers.
    Anyone else notice the July dungeon in Persona 3 is the same seedy hotel you spend the night at when you visit Gekkoukan high in P4?
    Yep, since the scene where Teddie looks at them from the roof is a deliberate homage to Strega's appearance.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • GilderGilder Aw snap Macaroni PartyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    eternalbl wrote: »
    Warning, possibly slight P3 and P4 spoilers.
    Anyone else notice the July dungeon in Persona 3 is the same seedy hotel you spend the night at when you visit Gekkoukan high in P4?
    Yeah, it's a love hotel. It's a Japan thing. Instead of like America where you slyly suggest going with a guy or girl to a hotel for a night of sex Japan just has hotels built for the purpose of sex. Considering the teacher is a slutty nympho whore it's not a surprise that she booked the rooms there.

    The place where everyone goes to eat noodles is also the noodle shop from P3. Nightclub and school should be obvious.

    Gilder on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Jesus, if you try and one-day clear a dungeon you spend like 3 or 4 fucking hours in there
    Goddamn

    Rent on
  • PhonehandPhonehand Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    so now that the semester is drawing to a close and i have all summer to get through my backlog, which do i play first

    nocturne
    dds
    p4
    !

    Phonehand on
    pmdunk.jpg
  • GilderGilder Aw snap Macaroni PartyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Nocturne. That way you can think deeply for months about what the ending you got truly meant and get into philosophical discussions with us.

    Gilder on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Besides, playing DDS without playing Nocturne first would be like passing learning how to ride a bike and going straight to manual transmission.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • PhonehandPhonehand Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    i started it like a year ago but got sidetracked and i have a major itch for it so i think that is a good idea yes
    i was right before matador though so i will probably have to start over

    Phonehand on
    pmdunk.jpg
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    How do you hang out with the S-Links when
    summer break is on? Specifically, where the hell are they?

    Moreover, how the fuck do you fish? I can't get it right at all
    Do you wait until the bobber dips, then press O? Is that right?

    Rent on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The only people you can hang out with over the summer are the party members, and they're in their usual off-school locations on certain(or random) days.


    As for fishing, wait for the vibration.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited April 2009
    Rent wrote: »
    How do you hang out with the S-Links when
    summer break is on? Specifically, where the hell are they?

    Here, a gift. Spoilers, obviously. Guide!

    Despite being spoilery, if you just want to figure out what you can do in a day, you won't ruin anything. Just make sure you're at the afternoon, because it tells you answers and stuff for quizzes (if you care about that). It'll tell you who's available on whatever day you look up.

    Shivahn on
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Besides, playing DDS without playing Nocturne first would be like passing learning how to ride a bike and going straight to manual transmission.
    Having not played Nocturne, I think I can still say that DDS wasn't that hard.

    Then again, I really didn't mind grinding for Mantras, so once a boss beat me once (a fairly rare occurence, actually) it was easy to retool my characters properly and then grind him into the dust.

    WotanAnubis on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    How do you hang out with the S-Links when
    summer break is on? Specifically, where the hell are they?

    Here, a gift. Spoilers, obviously. Guide!

    Despite being spoilery, if you just want to figure out what you can do in a day, you won't ruin anything. Just make sure you're at the afternoon, because it tells you answers and stuff for quizzes (if you care about that). It'll tell you who's available on whatever day you look up.

    Thanks
    Can you like not hang out with anyone before you open
    Mitsuo's dungeon? Because I wasn't getting the option, talking to them

    Rent on
  • GilderGilder Aw snap Macaroni PartyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Besides, playing DDS without playing Nocturne first would be like passing learning how to ride a bike and going straight to manual transmission.
    Having not played Nocturne, I think I can still say that DDS wasn't that hard.

    Then again, I really didn't mind grinding for Mantras, so once a boss beat me once (a fairly rare occurence, actually) it was easy to retool my characters properly and then grind him into the dust.

    Cj is crazy and thinks Nocturne is easier than DDS. Someday he will see the truth.

    Gilder on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Got Persona 4 on Friday and I'm in love with it.

    I like pretty much EVERYTHING about it better than Persona 3.
    Not that P3 was bad,it was amazing,but P4 is just that much better.

    Also, not getting tired? THANK YOU SO MUCH.

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    The only people you can hang out with over the summer are the party members, and they're in their usual off-school locations on certain(or random) days.


    As for fishing, wait for the vibration.

    I always hit it as soon as I heard the sound of the bobber submerging.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gilder wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Besides, playing DDS without playing Nocturne first would be like passing learning how to ride a bike and going straight to manual transmission.
    Having not played Nocturne, I think I can still say that DDS wasn't that hard.

    Then again, I really didn't mind grinding for Mantras, so once a boss beat me once (a fairly rare occurence, actually) it was easy to retool my characters properly and then grind him into the dust.

    Cj is crazy and thinks Nocturne is easier than DDS. Someday he will see the truth.
    Well, that's an interesting way to see it. Nocturne was my first SMT game and boy, I sure managed to fuck up my skillset early on. Not being able to relearn discarded skills was one the dumbest design decision in Nocturne.

    Silpheed on
  • LilithiumLilithium __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    This game was neat and all, I grew tired of it within 30 minutes. AND NO, I don't have ADD.

    Lilithium on
    What's that ringing? Ting-ting-a-linging in my head~? Oh, you're always there, making me whole. You're always waiting up for me. You're my first kiss, ever so pure, and ever so defiling, once lost, can never be the same. Fuck me. Violate me. Deny me.
  • StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm not making any progress at all in P4 because of The Last Remnant on PC. It may provide a nice change of pace for those weary of deep-diving those dungeons.

    Strifer on
    MikoSuikaLine.jpg
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Silpheed wrote: »
    Gilder wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Besides, playing DDS without playing Nocturne first would be like passing learning how to ride a bike and going straight to manual transmission.
    Having not played Nocturne, I think I can still say that DDS wasn't that hard.

    Then again, I really didn't mind grinding for Mantras, so once a boss beat me once (a fairly rare occurence, actually) it was easy to retool my characters properly and then grind him into the dust.

    Cj is crazy and thinks Nocturne is easier than DDS. Someday he will see the truth.
    Well, that's an interesting way to see it. Nocturne was my first SMT game and boy, I sure managed to fuck up my skillset early on. Not being able to relearn discarded skills was one the dumbest design decision in Nocturne.

    Well, having just more or less breezed through Hard Mode(after the painful first few hours), Nocturne seems much easier if you know how to prepare your skill set and demons in advance. Nothing'll prevent the occasional fluke death, but when things go right, the party's unstoppable.

    Maybe when I try my Hard run of DDS I'll finally change my opinion, I just recall those boss fights turning into marathon battles. There's more breathing room with establishing skill sets, but the bosses have much less tricks to exploit(if any) to make up for it.

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I just realized Phoenix Ranger Featherman R had been around that long.

    180px-FeathermanR.jpg

    cj iwakura on
    y3H3Fa4.png
  • PhonehandPhonehand Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    do you have any really important tips before i get really far in to nocturne

    i have always just sort of had a wing it approach to party setups in these games

    Phonehand on
    pmdunk.jpg
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Phonehand wrote: »
    do you have any really important tips before i get really far in to nocturne

    i have always just sort of had a wing it approach to party setups in these games

    Hang on to the starting pixie or whatever you fuse her into. Don't sacrifice or dismiss it.

    Probably better not get rid of focus, either. I did and was fine, but it makes things easier.

    Xagarath on
  • JONJONAUGJONJONAUG Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gilder wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Besides, playing DDS without playing Nocturne first would be like passing learning how to ride a bike and going straight to manual transmission.
    Having not played Nocturne, I think I can still say that DDS wasn't that hard.

    Then again, I really didn't mind grinding for Mantras, so once a boss beat me once (a fairly rare occurence, actually) it was easy to retool my characters properly and then grind him into the dust.

    Cj is crazy and thinks Nocturne is easier than DDS. Someday he will see the truth.

    Isn't it though?

    I died more times in Nocturne, but so far I'm finding DDS overall more difficult than Nocturne since every character has a weakness. I find myself dying less, but coming very CLOSE to death much more often and having to think things through a lot more. Only having three characters as opposed to four also stretches out boss fights a lot more than in Nocturne, making it more likely for the player to slip up somewhere along the way, or running out of MP near the end of the fight. The DDS endgame will probably be easier than Nocturne's though (although Nocturne's endgame turned from "oh my god why do all these demons absorb and reflect everything" to "lol I'm a tank with Masakados, Frekiguel, Gaea Rage, and Pierce" about two thirds of the way up the final dungeon).

    Phonehand wrote: »
    do you have any really important tips before i get really far in to nocturne

    i have always just sort of had a wing it approach to party setups in these games

    Make sure you keep your demon registrations up to date once the Compendium becomes available. The best summoning trick in the game is to make multiple demons in your party with extremely useful skills (Tarukaja, Fog Breath, Mana Refill, party healing spells, Focus, etc), fusing them to make more demons of a slightly higher level with the same skills, then resummoning the demon you just used as fusion fodder so that you can keep a diverse party. Nocturne really isn't that difficult, and you rarely have to fuse demons specifically for boss fights, as long as you have all the immunities covered at least to some extent (although against certain bosses that abuse Death or certain aliment spells you may need to fuse or resummon some demons as necessary). Demons' stats do change as they level up, but the only demons really worth keeping through most of the game are Daisoujou and the Rider Fiends (and the first Pixie you get if you want to go through the bottom level of the Labyrinth of Amala).


    Top Tricks for Easy Survival

    1. Fuse a demon with a high magic stat, a Media (heal the entire party) spell, and Mana Refill. You now have a never-ending source of HP recovery (Mana Refill recovers MP as you walk around, it restores MP by a percentage every few steps and will keep your party healer with enough MP so that you don't have to worry about it running out halfway through a dungeon with no Chakra Drops in your inventory).

    2. Daisoujou is beastly. Daisoujou has Prayer (which refills the party's HP fully AND removes all status aliments, making it the best healing spell in the game, but also the most costly at a whopping 50 MP cost), Meditation (drains HP and MP from enemies), and has boss immunities. He can be fused very early in the game too. However, the rest of his skillset is mostly useless outside of basic random encounters. I would recommend making sure he has Mana Refill to offset the massive cost of Prayer, War Cry (greatly reduces enemy attack and defense, two of these turns even the most difficult of fights into a walk in the park), and Tarujaka as to put him in an excellent support role that will last you almost the entire game (I didn't remove him from my active party until I was halfway through the final dungeon of the game). He only has two skills that he starts with, so you have six empty skill slots to fill with whatever you want (but he's best suited in a heavy support role).

    3. Red Rider is also beastly. While he can't be fused until later in the game he is both an extremely powerful Physical and Magic attacker. Of particular note is his Terrorblade skill (random physical attacks, but I often see this simply hitting everyone on the opposing side twice), which when combined with Focus can wipe out pretty much any random encounter in the game in one turn (just make sure the enemy doesn't reflect physical attacks before trying this). He also has powerful Force and Elec attacks (his Force attack has insane damage return for the MP price) to round him out. Not only does he have all standard boss immunities, but he is also immune to Elec and Force attacks with no weaknesses to speak of. Makes him a very valuable member to have around that makes half of the standard elemental magic in the game damage your enemies amount of remaining turn icons.

    4. Save before trying sacrifice fusions. Every time you fuse there is a 1 in 256 chance that the fusion will go wrong and you will get a random demon instead. During the Full phase however, this changes to a 1 in 16 chance. I've only had this happen to me once (and I got a Micheal out of it too :D), but I've heard other people have trouble with it much more often and not getting anything as cool out of it.

    5. Even if you aren't going for the True Demon ending, clear the Labyrinth of Amala anyway (but stop after you beat Metatron, Pierce isn't really THAT useful of a skill outside of the bonus boss fight anyway, since by this point in the game there's only a couple random encounter demons that void Phys instead of reflecting it). Of particular note is the Piscea you can buy on the first level that has all the skills you need to make dungeon crawling easy (lower encounter rate, raise encounter rate, illuminate dark areas, flee from battle 100%, become immune to regular damage floor, etc), the 250 THOUSAND Macca you can get in the second level (hard to reach though, the Piscea is very useful here), Black Frost on the third level (need to clear the third level and defeat Black Frost normally before you can have him join you here, but he's got so many resistances and immunities/absorptions/reflections on him that you can't NOT want him...and he's so cute), Hell's Vault (essentially infinite cash with some practice) and unlocking the Futomimi summon on the fourth floor, and a bunch of cool stuff if you can clear the fifth floor. Even if you don't want to go on (understandable, the encounter rate is higher than normal and there are no save points within), at least get the cool stuff in the first and second floors to make the rest of the game much easier.

    6. Download the Heretic Mansion Utility for easy access to all possible fusions to summon each demon in the game and all of the skills that every demon in the game can learn. Very, very useful.

    JONJONAUG on
  • RustRust __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    Gilder wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Besides, playing DDS without playing Nocturne first would be like passing learning how to ride a bike and going straight to manual transmission.
    Having not played Nocturne, I think I can still say that DDS wasn't that hard.

    Then again, I really didn't mind grinding for Mantras, so once a boss beat me once (a fairly rare occurence, actually) it was easy to retool my characters properly and then grind him into the dust.

    Cj is crazy and thinks Nocturne is easier than DDS. Someday he will see the truth.

    Isn't it though?

    I died more times in Nocturne, but so far I'm finding DDS overall more difficult than Nocturne since every character has a weakness. I find myself dying less, but coming very CLOSE to death much more often and having to think things through a lot more. Only having three characters as opposed to four also stretches out boss fights a lot more than in Nocturne, making it more likely for the player to slip up somewhere along the way, or running out of MP near the end of the fight. The DDS endgame will probably be easier than Nocturne's though (although Nocturne's endgame turned from "oh my god why do all these demons absorb and reflect everything" to "lol I'm a tank with Masakados, Frekiguel, Gaea Rage, and Pierce" about two thirds of the way up the final dungeon).

    If you decide to grind enough to beat all the secret bosses, you'll be walking on sunshine for the entirety of DDS's final dungeon.

    DDS2's, now that's a different story.

    Rust on
  • StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Get Void Death on your main as soon as possible. Keep it there.

    Strifer on
    MikoSuikaLine.jpg
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Strifer wrote: »
    Get Void Death on your main as soon as possible. Keep it there.

    I actually wouldn't go with this. Not many enemies use instant death attacks, many that do in random encounters are inaccurate, you can use endure to survive an instant death attack, and you can equip death-immune magatama for boss fights where you need it.

    You might have one, maybe two unlucky "WHAT THE $!~$#?!?!?!" deaths to unlucky random encounters, but on my playthrough of Nocturne I died a single time to an instant death attack at all, and never used void death as a skill.

    You do generally have an empty slot or two for a good chunk of the game that you can use on void skills, but I was much happier with void mind than I would have been with void death.

    My advice: You get the skill TORNADO relatively early on. Take it, use it, keep it, it will be your go-to magic attack for a majority of the game. Even if you're a STR-based character, take and keep Tornado until, well, probably until you have Freikugal or you replace it with Hellfire or Bolt Storm.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So, a Sui Ki (Naturally Repels Elec, Drains Ice and Weak against Fire) with Null Fire, Repel Physical and Repel Wind seems to break quite a large portion of P4.
    Don't imagine it'll apply to bosses.

    Xagarath on
  • StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Strifer wrote: »
    Get Void Death on your main as soon as possible. Keep it there.

    I actually wouldn't go with this. Not many enemies use instant death attacks, many that do in random encounters are inaccurate, you can use endure to survive an instant death attack, and you can equip death-immune magatama for boss fights where you need it.

    You might have one, maybe two unlucky "WHAT THE $!~$#?!?!?!" deaths to unlucky random encounters, but on my playthrough of Nocturne I died a single time to an instant death attack at all, and never used void death as a skill.

    You do generally have an empty slot or two for a good chunk of the game that you can use on void skills, but I was much happier with void mind than I would have been with void death.

    My advice: You get the skill TORNADO relatively early on. Take it, use it, keep it, it will be your go-to magic attack for a majority of the game. Even if you're a STR-based character, take and keep Tornado until, well, probably until you have Freikugal or you replace it with Hellfire or Bolt Storm.

    Better to keep that Void Death on you and use other Magatamas. I'd have stomped on the disc if I didn't have this on me.

    Oh, and Gaia Rage blows.

    Strifer on
    MikoSuikaLine.jpg
  • RustRust __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    Strifer wrote: »
    Strifer wrote: »
    Get Void Death on your main as soon as possible. Keep it there.

    I actually wouldn't go with this. Not many enemies use instant death attacks, many that do in random encounters are inaccurate, you can use endure to survive an instant death attack, and you can equip death-immune magatama for boss fights where you need it.

    You might have one, maybe two unlucky "WHAT THE $!~$#?!?!?!" deaths to unlucky random encounters, but on my playthrough of Nocturne I died a single time to an instant death attack at all, and never used void death as a skill.

    You do generally have an empty slot or two for a good chunk of the game that you can use on void skills, but I was much happier with void mind than I would have been with void death.

    My advice: You get the skill TORNADO relatively early on. Take it, use it, keep it, it will be your go-to magic attack for a majority of the game. Even if you're a STR-based character, take and keep Tornado until, well, probably until you have Freikugal or you replace it with Hellfire or Bolt Storm.

    Better to keep that Void Death on you and use other Magatamas. I'd have stomped on the disc if I didn't have this on me.

    Oh, and Gaia Rage blows.

    Nuh-uh.

    I think it's the top-tier mass physical technique, actually. Sure it can fuck you up something major if one of the enemies reflect Phys, but if they don't then everything is gravy!

    Rust on
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Gaea Rage isn't bad, but its problem is that it costs a shit ton of HP. It's the one I have now, but I'd like to replace it with something with a lower cost and high crit rate.

    Elendil on
  • DarklyreDarklyre Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Nocturne question: How much luck does the main need? I've heard things about needing 20 Luck to do something somewhere later in the game. Is this true?

    Darklyre on
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