But that isn't important! Because this thread is for talking about paladins! I'm actually not that worried about the haste issue, and am really excited about 20% more crit with HL. Embrace of the Spider has pretty much removed any sort of haste problems for me.
The change to IoL is pretty godawful horrible for PvE holy, especially with the current way it reads not guaranteeing that it will actually cause a certain crit. The way it reads now you could get horrible RNG on that next Holy Light, and waste the buff, and gain nothing. The haste from IoL on Holy Lights was a nice bit of synergy in the holy tree, and was a nice increase to overall throughput. Nevermind that they are supposedly nerfing mana regen, then give holy more crit on holy light, when illumination is currently holy's number one source of mana regen.
I love that holy has now lost its only real combo heal ability in the tree. Thanks Blizz!
Nambkab on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Im going to be getting the new Talent in prot. Its like a shieldwall for the whole raid.
Edit: This will be my talent build once the patch comes out.
you realise that its basically divine guardian except you take ALL of the damage, not have it be absorbed into Bubble?
so basically you're fucking dead?
edit: I'm an idiot. Definitely it would stack with Divine Guardian, giving you 45% damage reduction, and the damage harmlessly dissipates.
Shattering Throw *New Skill* - Throws your weapon at the enemy causing [ 50% of AP + 12 ] damage (based on attack power), reducing the armor on the target by 20% for 10 sec, and removing any invulnerabilities. 25 Rage, 30 yd range, 1.5 sec cast, 5 min cooldown
Boo.
At least you guys get fucking plate armor.
"Ooh but you have COLD SNAP!"
Yeah 30 seconds naked with a warrior is a death sentence to a mage.
The PvP pendulum swings again. Instead of addressing the overwhelming damage output making paladins' bubble necessary to survive as a healer, they just add another easy way to pop the bubble.
Great thinking. Dual fury warrior faceroll to 2v2 2200?
Hopefully it'll be an arms-only ability (talent). Wouldn't be as bad, since fury warriors are a dime a dozen but arms warriors are pretty rare these days.
Either way I don't give two shits about it, but still.
Im going to be getting the new Talent in prot. Its like a shieldwall for the whole raid.
Edit: This will be my talent build once the patch comes out.
you realise that its basically divine guardian except you take ALL of the damage, not have it be absorbed into Bubble?
so basically you're fucking dead?
edit: I'm an idiot. Definitely it would stack with Divine Guardian, giving you 45% damage reduction, and the damage harmlessly dissipates.
There's these things, they're called heals. I usually get them as a tank.
* Glyph of Holy Light: Can no longer crit and has had its range updated.
and
# Infusion of Light: Now increases the critical chance of your next Holy Light by 10/20% instead of reducing cast time. Moved to Tier 10.
seem a bit at odds? Aren't we forced to make a choice between either critting with Infusion of Light but losing one of our two abilities to do any AOE healing or turning Infusion of Light into a fairly worthless Flash of Light speed bonus now? That seems mighty shitty. Someone convince me I'm wrong please.
i think the not critting thing is the aoe heal component, rather than the heal itself
Little Jim on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
the way glyph of holy light current works is suhc
Holy Light heals for 10k (noncrit)
Glyph heals then can either heal five people for 1k, or, they have a separate, individual chance to crit-heal for 2k.
If you crit the Holy Light, your glyph heals will then either heal for 2k, or a crit heal for 4k.
The change simply means that the glyph heals can't crit, so they will always do 10% of whatever the heal value of your HL heal or crit-heal was.
The IoL nerf is a HUGE kick in the nuts for me in PvP.
The only saving grace is the redesigned aura mastery talent. I'll just have to plan heals a bit better and save aura mastery for the super clutch, cannot be interrupted at ALL moments. And I won't have to blow bubble in those instances, which is nice.
It seems quixotic to nerf the IoL talent, seeing as increased mobility for paladin healers was a major priority in the development of the Holy tree for Wrath. Not to sound like a crybaby, but my protadin will definitely add Ret as a second spec, rather than Holy next patch. Previous to learning of this, I was indifferent between the two choices.
Does the in game stat thing in your character screen display spellpower from talents?
Cause I put on my holy set the other day after I'd finished putting together while still ret, and I had 1340something SP. The next day, without making any change to my set, I respecced to holy, and had 1306 SP.
WTF?
Shouldn't I have had more? By my calculations, I should have gotten about 140 more SP just from the 20% int -> Talent. Not counting SP from my 15% extra int.
Edit: The only thing I can think of, is maybe sheath of light. Did I have enough AP even in my holy gear that it gave more +heals while ret than holy?
Nope. Didn't have kings in that spec. Usually had Wisdom up cause I hate having to keep track of my mana, and had been shopping and getting enchants for my set long enough for blessings to expire anyway.
So does the new aura mastery cooldown set off the GCD? If it does, that's great, because what holy paladins really needed (besides mobility nerfs) was another important healing cooldown that triggers the GCD during oh shit moments.
I'd like to know as well, haven't seen it on MMO and/or WoR, and I've been keeping an eye out since they changed the default range.
Found it:
Aura Mastery: Now makes anyone affected by Concentration Aura to be immune to Interrupt and Silence mechanics and increases the effectiveness of all other auras by 100%. Lasts 10 sec. 2 min cooldown.
Edit: The only thing I can think of, is maybe sheath of light. Did I have enough AP even in my holy gear that it gave more +heals while ret than holy?
Very possible. I ran into a similar situation with my shaman when I respec'd him from enhance to elemental. My overall spellpower dropped a bit when I lost the ap>spellpower conversion talents.
So my pally is now 79 and a spec'd Holy due to healer shortage on my server. Now i have healed as priest and Druid but never as a pally. So i figured i would get some advice from the pros.
what stats should i been looking for? Mp5 or spirit? I know crit and intel is good. What about haste? I know for my priest haste is fun (dmg wise) but runs me out of mana so i balance it off with crit (if fights get drawn out).
Trinkets, god i need trinkets and a new libram. Any recommendations (remember lvl 79, so pre heroics).
I think that is it, i have my spec i like to use for healing. But that will get fine tuned as i figure out my "playing style". But there any mods recommendations, i currently use Grid and Xperl as my main mods.
That's it for now, I apologize if i sound noobish. I was so set on being prot but tough times call for tough measures!
Holy Paladin gearing can pretty much follow this pattern:
Early 5-mans/heroics: Spell Power > Crit > Intel > MP5
Beginning Raiding: Spell power > Intel > Crit > MP5
Heavy Raiding/BiS gear: Intel > Spell Power > Crit > MP5
Starting out, you're going to get a lot of your Crit and Intel from gear. You should be gemming for Spellpower, since you're not going to have a "lot" of longevity as a healer. You're going to want to buff up your healing as much as you can, so you pack more punch.
As your gear matures, you can begin to move towards the eventual goal of a very large mana pool, with a hefty amount of Spell power to back it up. Once your gear begins to move into the current best items in the game, you'll find that your Spell Power and crit come from the gear, at which point you pour on the intel. Our best regen right now comes from Divine Plea and Replenishment, which both take your Maximum Mana into account towards your regen. Intel also supplies you with Spell power and +Crit, though not as much as the actual stats.
Spirit is garbage, and Mp5 is only really something you should look at, if the other stats on the gear will be an upgrade. You are a "Spam healer" class. Your regen comes from steady casts of Critical heals, and the regens you recieve from the above-mentioned abilities. Not saying Mp5 is bad, and you WILL have some on your gear, it's just not something that takes priority over other stats. Again, Spirit is garbage for a Paladin. Burn that into your soul. Haste is good stuff. You'll normally find it on gear you want. Don't gem for it.
Thank you, that was a great insight Laurluna! It gives me something to consider as i progress along. I am sure i will get a better hang of it once i experince more healing in different situations!
My main is a lvl 42 Prot Pally. While some may find Ret to be more fun, I've found that I enjoy being able to withstand a beating and keep trucking along. Other than having to replenish mana, I have virtually no downtime.
Due to my odd schedule, I haven't been able to find a guild. Typically, I'll join a small one, then either be kicked because I can't be online when the rest of the group is running, or the guild is so small everyone just disbands all together. Because of this, I haven't run many instances (RFC, WC, and SFK are all I've done), and have never raided.
So, my biggest concern is equipment. I'd like to have better gear, but since grouping is difficult, I'm not sure where to go/farm. Here's my character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadow+Council&n=Sabest As you can see, most of my equipment is AH bought stuff (I kept my now-defunct guild tabard because my leggings look horrible. Not ideal. I'd like to get equipment that will last me for a few levels, if at all possible.
Second, I'm wondering if I should be buying glyphs at this stage, and if so, what glyphs to look for?
Third, I'm curious as to how the magical 540 defense rating number is generated. Does it come from the defense skill that auto-increments every so often when we get hit? From the defense rating of our equipment? A combination of the two?
So, any suggestions/info you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Nightslyr on
PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948 Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
Defense is a combination, level 80s have a base of 400. So, obviously, you have to pump a lot into defense via gems and shit. Don't bother with glyphs and don't bother with trying to find great gear until you're 80, just upgrade via quests and drops and get to 80 asap.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
You need 540 defense skill, or 400 base defense skill + 140 from rating, which ends up being about 690 defense rating.
If you're not 58 yet, don't worry overmuch about gear. You'll get it when you get it.
As for glyphs, if you can find the following cheap, pick them up; otherwise don't worry about it
-Glyph of Judgement
-Glyph of Consecration (increased duration -> consumes less mana, y'see?)
-Glyph of the Wise (?) (It's a minor that halves the mana cost of Seal of Wisdom; handy if you run out of mana in a tight spot.)
Third, I'm curious as to how the magical 540 defense rating number is generated. Does it come from the defense skill that auto-increments every so often when we get hit? From the defense rating of our equipment? A combination of the two?
As stated above, it's 540 total defense skill you're after. However, if you're wondering where the 540 number itself came from, it comes from the magical percentage that a +3 level mob has to crit you (I think it's roughly 6%)
You can't escape magical numbers!
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Thanks, guys. I'm happy to see I'm not doing it wrong.
The only way you may be "doing it wrong" is by (apparently) copying a raid/heroic prot build when you are not in the content or the gear for it to be of much use to you.
Since you still have a ways to go on your pally (and are still using SoR). I'd drop kings for the time being and pick up Reckoning. The reason for this is threefold:
1) Kings is inferior to Sanctuary except in infinite mana situations or when the extra 10% stam/agi/str will save you. You will not encounter either of these things soloing.
2) The bonus from Kings will be very small given no access to TBC-budgeted items. Plus, you will simply not be tanking anything that can kill you in <4 hits without heals. It's a good talent for buffing group mates who either have statistical scaling talents like Mind Mastery or that priest spirit one or when there is another paladin around and for bosses. Again, you will not be doing either of these things.
3) Reckoning will help you level by increasing your dps. Given the absence of other critical talents and skills for prot dps, it will provide a noticeable increase in hurt provided. Extra dps at your level will also increase threat substantially if you get the opportunity to run instances. You also have very little avoidance before TBC (and frankly before you hit the level cap) and thus the talent will proc a lot. Extra damage to single targets will more than likely counter any statistical bonus you could get getting kings.
In short, even though they're all in the tanking tree, try to focus on talents to improve your abilities to generate threat and do damage before level 60. That said, once you hit Holy Shield, provided you are investing talents BELOW that line, it's hard to go wrong. Also, get Touched by the Light ASAP.
EDIT: I'd drop deflection (for now!) and pick up Holy Shield, cause, damn.
Posts
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
Edit: This will be my talent build once the patch comes out.
I'M HURT NOW WHY ARE YOU MEAN
The change to IoL is pretty godawful horrible for PvE holy, especially with the current way it reads not guaranteeing that it will actually cause a certain crit. The way it reads now you could get horrible RNG on that next Holy Light, and waste the buff, and gain nothing. The haste from IoL on Holy Lights was a nice bit of synergy in the holy tree, and was a nice increase to overall throughput. Nevermind that they are supposedly nerfing mana regen, then give holy more crit on holy light, when illumination is currently holy's number one source of mana regen.
I love that holy has now lost its only real combo heal ability in the tree. Thanks Blizz!
you realise that its basically divine guardian except you take ALL of the damage, not have it be absorbed into Bubble?
so basically you're fucking dead?
edit: I'm an idiot. Definitely it would stack with Divine Guardian, giving you 45% damage reduction, and the damage harmlessly dissipates.
"Ooh but you have COLD SNAP!"
Yeah 30 seconds naked with a warrior is a death sentence to a mage.
Thanks, Blizz!
Great thinking. Dual fury warrior faceroll to 2v2 2200?
Either way I don't give two shits about it, but still.
There's these things, they're called heals. I usually get them as a tank.
* Glyph of Holy Light: Can no longer crit and has had its range updated.
and
# Infusion of Light: Now increases the critical chance of your next Holy Light by 10/20% instead of reducing cast time. Moved to Tier 10.
seem a bit at odds? Aren't we forced to make a choice between either critting with Infusion of Light but losing one of our two abilities to do any AOE healing or turning Infusion of Light into a fairly worthless Flash of Light speed bonus now? That seems mighty shitty. Someone convince me I'm wrong please.
Holy Light heals for 10k (noncrit)
Glyph heals then can either heal five people for 1k, or, they have a separate, individual chance to crit-heal for 2k.
If you crit the Holy Light, your glyph heals will then either heal for 2k, or a crit heal for 4k.
The change simply means that the glyph heals can't crit, so they will always do 10% of whatever the heal value of your HL heal or crit-heal was.
The only saving grace is the redesigned aura mastery talent. I'll just have to plan heals a bit better and save aura mastery for the super clutch, cannot be interrupted at ALL moments. And I won't have to blow bubble in those instances, which is nice.
Cause I put on my holy set the other day after I'd finished putting together while still ret, and I had 1340something SP. The next day, without making any change to my set, I respecced to holy, and had 1306 SP.
WTF?
Shouldn't I have had more? By my calculations, I should have gotten about 140 more SP just from the 20% int -> Talent. Not counting SP from my 15% extra int.
Edit: The only thing I can think of, is maybe sheath of light. Did I have enough AP even in my holy gear that it gave more +heals while ret than holy?
Or maybe it was just Blessing of Kings?
Found it:
Very possible. I ran into a similar situation with my shaman when I respec'd him from enhance to elemental. My overall spellpower dropped a bit when I lost the ap>spellpower conversion talents.
what stats should i been looking for? Mp5 or spirit? I know crit and intel is good. What about haste? I know for my priest haste is fun (dmg wise) but runs me out of mana so i balance it off with crit (if fights get drawn out).
Trinkets, god i need trinkets and a new libram. Any recommendations (remember lvl 79, so pre heroics).
I think that is it, i have my spec i like to use for healing. But that will get fine tuned as i figure out my "playing style". But there any mods recommendations, i currently use Grid and Xperl as my main mods.
That's it for now, I apologize if i sound noobish. I was so set on being prot but tough times call for tough measures!
Thanks in advance
did you know your the 666th post to this thread? I just had to mention it!
That seems appropriate.
But on my screen yours was the 666th.
hrm.
Early 5-mans/heroics: Spell Power > Crit > Intel > MP5
Beginning Raiding: Spell power > Intel > Crit > MP5
Heavy Raiding/BiS gear: Intel > Spell Power > Crit > MP5
Starting out, you're going to get a lot of your Crit and Intel from gear. You should be gemming for Spellpower, since you're not going to have a "lot" of longevity as a healer. You're going to want to buff up your healing as much as you can, so you pack more punch.
As your gear matures, you can begin to move towards the eventual goal of a very large mana pool, with a hefty amount of Spell power to back it up. Once your gear begins to move into the current best items in the game, you'll find that your Spell Power and crit come from the gear, at which point you pour on the intel. Our best regen right now comes from Divine Plea and Replenishment, which both take your Maximum Mana into account towards your regen. Intel also supplies you with Spell power and +Crit, though not as much as the actual stats.
Spirit is garbage, and Mp5 is only really something you should look at, if the other stats on the gear will be an upgrade. You are a "Spam healer" class. Your regen comes from steady casts of Critical heals, and the regens you recieve from the above-mentioned abilities. Not saying Mp5 is bad, and you WILL have some on your gear, it's just not something that takes priority over other stats. Again, Spirit is garbage for a Paladin. Burn that into your soul. Haste is good stuff. You'll normally find it on gear you want. Don't gem for it.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
My main is a lvl 42 Prot Pally. While some may find Ret to be more fun, I've found that I enjoy being able to withstand a beating and keep trucking along. Other than having to replenish mana, I have virtually no downtime.
Due to my odd schedule, I haven't been able to find a guild. Typically, I'll join a small one, then either be kicked because I can't be online when the rest of the group is running, or the guild is so small everyone just disbands all together. Because of this, I haven't run many instances (RFC, WC, and SFK are all I've done), and have never raided.
So, my biggest concern is equipment. I'd like to have better gear, but since grouping is difficult, I'm not sure where to go/farm. Here's my character: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadow+Council&n=Sabest As you can see, most of my equipment is AH bought stuff (I kept my now-defunct guild tabard because my leggings look horrible. Not ideal. I'd like to get equipment that will last me for a few levels, if at all possible.
Second, I'm wondering if I should be buying glyphs at this stage, and if so, what glyphs to look for?
Third, I'm curious as to how the magical 540 defense rating number is generated. Does it come from the defense skill that auto-increments every so often when we get hit? From the defense rating of our equipment? A combination of the two?
So, any suggestions/info you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
If you're not 58 yet, don't worry overmuch about gear. You'll get it when you get it.
As for glyphs, if you can find the following cheap, pick them up; otherwise don't worry about it
-Glyph of Judgement
-Glyph of Consecration (increased duration -> consumes less mana, y'see?)
-Glyph of the Wise (?) (It's a minor that halves the mana cost of Seal of Wisdom; handy if you run out of mana in a tight spot.)
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
Meaning less mana downtime!
As stated above, it's 540 total defense skill you're after. However, if you're wondering where the 540 number itself came from, it comes from the magical percentage that a +3 level mob has to crit you (I think it's roughly 6%)
You can't escape magical numbers!
The only way you may be "doing it wrong" is by (apparently) copying a raid/heroic prot build when you are not in the content or the gear for it to be of much use to you.
Since you still have a ways to go on your pally (and are still using SoR). I'd drop kings for the time being and pick up Reckoning. The reason for this is threefold:
1) Kings is inferior to Sanctuary except in infinite mana situations or when the extra 10% stam/agi/str will save you. You will not encounter either of these things soloing.
2) The bonus from Kings will be very small given no access to TBC-budgeted items. Plus, you will simply not be tanking anything that can kill you in <4 hits without heals. It's a good talent for buffing group mates who either have statistical scaling talents like Mind Mastery or that priest spirit one or when there is another paladin around and for bosses. Again, you will not be doing either of these things.
3) Reckoning will help you level by increasing your dps. Given the absence of other critical talents and skills for prot dps, it will provide a noticeable increase in hurt provided. Extra dps at your level will also increase threat substantially if you get the opportunity to run instances. You also have very little avoidance before TBC (and frankly before you hit the level cap) and thus the talent will proc a lot. Extra damage to single targets will more than likely counter any statistical bonus you could get getting kings.
In short, even though they're all in the tanking tree, try to focus on talents to improve your abilities to generate threat and do damage before level 60. That said, once you hit Holy Shield, provided you are investing talents BELOW that line, it's hard to go wrong. Also, get Touched by the Light ASAP.
EDIT: I'd drop deflection (for now!) and pick up Holy Shield, cause, damn.