Thank you, that was a great insight Laurluna! It gives me something to consider as i progress along. I am sure i will get a better hang of it once i experince more healing in different situations!
Another healing trick.
Divine Favor and Divine Illumination are awesome. I have a macro that casts both of those. I use it in "oh shit" moments, or at the beginning of long fights. 15 seconds of half cost spells is always nice, but the best part is, Illumination returns returns 60% of the normal mana cost of the spell, so every healing crit you get while DI is up grants more mana than it cost. If you have sacred shield up and a lot of spell crit, you can throw a ton of Flash of Lights at people and probably come out with a fair bit more mana than you went in with. But use your guaranteed crit on a holy light. With the glyph it'll heal people close to your target too for about as a much as a non-crit flash of light, and since it has the higher mana cost than Flash, it'll return more mana.
Maybe for the next Pally OP we could get a little mention of the various glyphs commonly used for most builds and the tradeoffs between them. Or are the basically just three glyphs for any spec, and the rest are worthless? Cause I know for holy, Holy Light and Flash of Light seem pretty damn standard, but what do you put in the 3rd major slot?
Tofystedeth on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
So blue posted that they're making mana spring totem raid wide, and changing it so that it no longer stacks with Blessing of Wisdom (untalented presumably).
I don't know how that will affect most guilds, but in mine it makes buffing stupidly simple (everybody gets kings, except me, unless another pally's in the raid).
Thank you, that was a great insight Laurluna! It gives me something to consider as i progress along. I am sure i will get a better hang of it once i experince more healing in different situations!
Another healing trick.
Divine Favor and Divine Illumination are awesome. I have a macro that casts both of those. I use it in "oh shit" moments, or at the beginning of long fights. 15 seconds of half cost spells is always nice, but the best part is, Illumination returns returns 60% of the normal mana cost of the spell, so every healing crit you get while DI is up grants more mana than it cost. If you have sacred shield up and a lot of spell crit, you can throw a ton of Flash of Lights at people and probably come out with a fair bit more mana than you went in with. But use your guaranteed crit on a holy light. With the glyph it'll heal people close to your target too for about as a much as a non-crit flash of light, and since it has the higher mana cost than Flash, it'll return more mana.
That is pretty handy, i will have to look up a macro for that! Thanks!
I found a nice spot that breaks down alot of the pally healing goodness for noobs.
So blue posted that they're making mana spring totem raid wide, and changing it so that it no longer stacks with Blessing of Wisdom (untalented presumably).
I don't know how that will affect most guilds, but in mine it makes buffing stupidly simple (everybody gets kings, except me, unless another pally's in the raid).
Wow, that kinda' sucks. That's a pretty good chunk of mana regen.
On the note of buffing, I love that Blizzard gives us 30min Pally buffs, BoK baseline, and now, I don't have to put points into Imp Wisdom or Imp Might anymore. Let the Shaman and the Warrior do it. Ima' hit my Holy Spam(light) button for free epics.
So blue posted that they're making mana spring totem raid wide, and changing it so that it no longer stacks with Blessing of Wisdom (untalented presumably).
I don't know how that will affect most guilds, but in mine it makes buffing stupidly simple (everybody gets kings, except me, unless another pally's in the raid).
The quote for those who can't access the link for whatever reason:
Blessing of Wisdom and Mana Spring Totem change We are making a change to these spells so that their benefits are exclusive in patch 3.1.0. The buffs will be equivalent, but will no longer stack. Mana Spring will affect the entire raid instead of just the shaman’s party. We felt that both paladins and shamans brought too many unique buffs to a group. Additionally, we have been trying to tone down mana regeneration in large groups, and were concerned raids would feel the need to stack paladins or especially shaman to have enough Mana Spring totems. We have also been trying to get more benefits out of the party and into the raid, and Mana Spring previously was still a party only buff. With this change, if there is only one paladin, he or she can bring Blessing of Kings while the shaman offers Mana Spring. If there are two paladins and the second offers Blessing of Wisdom, then the shaman can offer healing or cleansing with their water totem instead.
Isn't it interesting that the bolded line was actually said by Blizzard?
So blue posted that they're making mana spring totem raid wide, and changing it so that it no longer stacks with Blessing of Wisdom (untalented presumably).
I don't know how that will affect most guilds, but in mine it makes buffing stupidly simple (everybody gets kings, except me, unless another pally's in the raid).
The quote for those who can't access the link for whatever reason:
Blessing of Wisdom and Mana Spring Totem change We are making a change to these spells so that their benefits are exclusive in patch 3.1.0. The buffs will be equivalent, but will no longer stack. Mana Spring will affect the entire raid instead of just the shaman’s party. We felt that both paladins and shamans brought too many unique buffs to a group. Additionally, we have been trying to tone down mana regeneration in large groups, and were concerned raids would feel the need to stack paladins or especially shaman to have enough Mana Spring totems. We have also been trying to get more benefits out of the party and into the raid, and Mana Spring previously was still a party only buff. With this change, if there is only one paladin, he or she can bring Blessing of Kings while the shaman offers Mana Spring. If there are two paladins and the second offers Blessing of Wisdom, then the shaman can offer healing or cleansing with their water totem instead.
Isn't it interesting that the bolded line was actually said by Blizzard?
TBH, I would have rather had Avenging Wrath turn into Bloodlust/Heroism :P
Nobody on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
So blue posted that they're making mana spring totem raid wide, and changing it so that it no longer stacks with Blessing of Wisdom (untalented presumably).
I don't know how that will affect most guilds, but in mine it makes buffing stupidly simple (everybody gets kings, except me, unless another pally's in the raid).
The quote for those who can't access the link for whatever reason:
Blessing of Wisdom and Mana Spring Totem change We are making a change to these spells so that their benefits are exclusive in patch 3.1.0. The buffs will be equivalent, but will no longer stack. Mana Spring will affect the entire raid instead of just the shaman’s party. We felt that both paladins and shamans brought too many unique buffs to a group. Additionally, we have been trying to tone down mana regeneration in large groups, and were concerned raids would feel the need to stack paladins or especially shaman to have enough Mana Spring totems. We have also been trying to get more benefits out of the party and into the raid, and Mana Spring previously was still a party only buff. With this change, if there is only one paladin, he or she can bring Blessing of Kings while the shaman offers Mana Spring. If there are two paladins and the second offers Blessing of Wisdom, then the shaman can offer healing or cleansing with their water totem instead.
Isn't it interesting that the bolded line was actually said by Blizzard?
TBH, I would have rather had Avenging Wrath turn into Bloodlust/Heroism :P
It would have to be removed from forbearance. Popping Heroism during an enrage would be a very bad.
Third, I'm curious as to how the magical 540 defense rating number is generated. Does it come from the defense skill that auto-increments every so often when we get hit? From the defense rating of our equipment? A combination of the two?
As stated above, it's 540 total defense skill you're after. However, if you're wondering where the 540 number itself came from, it comes from the magical percentage that a +3 level mob has to crit you (I think it's roughly 6%)
You can't escape magical numbers!
+3 mobs have a 5.6% chance to crit you if you are at the base defense cap (level x 5, so 400 at level 80). Tangentially, even level mobs have a 5% chance to crit you, and it goes up by .2% for each level (at least until +3; I don't think anyone has really researched beyond that since the people who do that don't care about anything besides the level cap).
1 point of defense (not defense rating) reduces your chance to be crit by .04%. Simple algebra dictates that 25 points of defense reduce your chance to be crit by 1%. So 125 defense over base defense cap (400), or 525 total defense, reduces your chance to be crit by 5%, which would make you uncrittable by an even level mob. Since you need .2% more crit reduction for each level a mob is above you, you need 5 more defense than (level cap x 5 + 125) to be uncrittable per mob level. The highest level mobs in heroics are 82, so that's why the defense cap for heroics is 535. The highest level mobs in raids are "bosses," which are always calculated as your level + 3 for all the nerdy behind the scenes math, so essentially they're level 83 for now, which is how the "defense cap" that most people speak of ends up at 540.
The highest level mobs in heroics are 82, so that's why the defense cap for heroics is 535. The highest level mobs in raids are "bosses," which are always calculated as your level + 3 for all the nerdy behind the scenes math, so essentially they're level 83 for now, which is how the "defense cap" that most people speak of ends up at 540.
So say hypothetically my level 20 hunter alt made into Ironforge to attack the dwarf king. For the purposes of calculating hit his level would be 23?
Also, can't you pad some of that defense out with resilience if you're having trouble finding the gear?
That hypothetical situation would depend on if the dwarf king is considered a dungeon/raid boss..... I think he's got a set level but not 100% on that.
but essentially yes, if you run up to a Skull mob in a dungeon at level 20, for calculation purposes it's considered 23...
and your next question... Yes you can use resilience to pad your defense numbers, it is not the optimal way to gear however as it doesn't increase your avoidance stats at all... hence most gear straight defense as that pads dodge/parry/block %
Yes, your hunter would have an easier time hitting the king than the level 70 (or whatever) guards in town. Of course anything would one shot you, so it doesn't matter too much. Edit: Err, wait. I think I remember them adding a level floor mechanic at some point, since (I guess?) they were worried about some sort of exploit in using a sub-capped tank for some encounters or something.
and your next question... Yes you can use resilience to pad your defense numbers, it is not the optimal way to gear however as it doesn't increase your avoidance stats at all... hence most gear straight defense as that pads dodge/parry/block %
Resilience gear can be helpful for hitting the cap if you just can't get a good defense item in a certain slot to drop but happen to have access to a decent PvP item or two. It can also be handy to use, say, the Wintergrasp shoulder and/or helmet enchants that give AP and resilience if you don't have enough Hodir/Argent Crusade rep for their tanking enchants.
Resilience is a stopgap solution to hitting the defense cap, but don't count it out before you're rolling in all the nice tanking gear.
I'm pretty sure raid bosses have a level 'floor' that they cannot be lower than, meaning he'd probably still be level 83.
Could be wrong though.
good point... I was thinking along the lines of level restrictions for entering zones... as there isn't one for IF or SW there would have to be a minimum level for each NPC
I'm pretty sure raid bosses have a level 'floor' that they cannot be lower than, meaning he'd probably still be level 83.
Could be wrong though.
good point... I was thinking along the lines of level restrictions for entering zones... as there isn't one for IF or SW there would have to be a minimum level for each NPC
Well, I don't really understand why there would "have to be" a minimum level cap. It's not like a level 20 poses a threat to a city boss anyway.
I'm reading that as "Paladins keep buffing Wisdom. We're nerfing Shamans, because we're too lazy to buff healing stream. Now they HAVE to drop it. Muwahahaha."
That is, of course, if there's 2 Paladins present.
Edit: Also, for the Holy discussion going on a lil while back, my Main is now specced/geared for raiding, if you'd like to armory for comparison/reference.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Do you not find that a t7.5 chestpiece would be superior to what you have, considering it has two sockets (thus more intellect potential) and gives you the 4pc bonus?
Do you not find that a t7.5 chestpiece would be superior to what you have, considering it has two sockets (thus more intellect potential) and gives you the 4pc bonus?
T7.5 holy chest is really meh. Haste and 20 mp5, no thnx. Ill stick with my OS 25 plate chest. From what ive gathered from the earlier conversation, getting the 4 pc holy bonus is not worth sacrificing the better stats on off tier pieces.
Edit: once i get my holy gear enchanted Ill post my pally in his holy gear.
T7.5 holy chest is really meh. Haste and 20 mp5, no thnx. Ill stick with my OS 25 plate chest. From what ive gathered from the earlier conversation, getting the 4 pc holy bonus is not worth sacrificing the better stats on off tier pieces.
Edit: once i get my holy gear enchanted Ill post my pally in his holy gear.
^--This, in a nutshell.
I actually got the 7.5 helm last night, simply because I have too many points to care, and I was tired of wearing the 10-man hat. I have the 10-man T7 chest, and the 2 sockets don't really do anything but give me a little bit more intel. Even with the discussions on Divine Plea and Replenishment, that Mp5 and extra intel aren't going to make up for the massive amount of +crit on this chestpiece. /shrug I want the 25-man OS Chest, at the end of the day. Still need to get the helm from 25-man Thaddius, though it's strictly now to compare numbers between it and the 7.5 hat. The upcoming change to how Blessing of Wisdom and Mana Spring totem work may lead to a bit more Mp5 whoring, but we'll see. Mana is such a non-issue right now for this class that it kinda' doesn't matter.
Whenever you're comparing ANY gear to that 4-piece bonus, remember this: If you cast 1000 Holy Lights over the course of an evening, you're going to save a net total of 58,000 mana. This is using the 4-piece bonus, in conjunction with the HL cost reduct Libram and the Seal of Wisdom Glyph. That's a crap-ton of Holy Lights. With that said, that amount of mana is about 1/10 of what you'll regen from Divine Plea and Replenishment, over the course of that same evening.(THIS STATEMENT ASSUMES YOU CAN RAID BUFF OVER 25K MANA.)
It's about 55 extra Holy Lights. Basically, it's a drop in the bucket with where our regen currently is, through the use of superior intel/crit stats on off-set gear.
Funny thing is I got the OS 25 Healing chest as an off set piece .
Decided since i finally got my holy set finished and got everything gemmed and enchanted im going to take a break from tanking this weekend and heal 25 man naxx. Ill post my armory when i spec holy this weekend.
Funny thing is I got the OS 25 Healing chest as an off set piece .
It dropped our first 25-man kill ever. I'd gotten the T7 chest from Naxx, so I passed it over to our newer Holy Paladin that was wearing garbage. Have yet to see it drop since then. He's currently quit the game for school or something. I am saddened.
Decided since i finally got my holy set finished and got everything gemmed and enchanted im going to take a break from tanking this weekend and heal 25 man naxx. Ill post my armory when i spec holy this weekend.
My one piece of advice is to find out if you're running with a Ret Paladin or not. If you are, check that they have Kings(fail if they don't). You can run with a deeper Ret Spec, which will allow you to pick up some extra +crit.
ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
Color me confused:
Protection
* Guarded by the Light got an additional effect - In addition, your Divine Plea spell is 50/100% less likely to be dispelled.
It's a deep prot talent. A tree that really isn't anywhere near viable in PvP except as the ultimate flag runner. I'm okay with the idea of prot being PvP viable...just trying to figure out why you'd make this single change right now.
Wasn't prot supposed to get some kind of spell interrupt added to one of its abilities? I could have swore I heard about it in the past, but don't see anything on the recent changes.
Wavechaser on
0
ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
If the goal was to make Prot PvP viable I'd expect a bunch of changes. A single change is just kind of odd. I'm not complaining, I'll take random buffs it's just kind of weird to me.
Posts
And even thats kinda meh....Is there any reason at all to worry about hit.
At all?
Just curious because I'm keeping the plate hit rating pants just because...
...you never know!
Divine Favor and Divine Illumination are awesome. I have a macro that casts both of those. I use it in "oh shit" moments, or at the beginning of long fights. 15 seconds of half cost spells is always nice, but the best part is, Illumination returns returns 60% of the normal mana cost of the spell, so every healing crit you get while DI is up grants more mana than it cost. If you have sacred shield up and a lot of spell crit, you can throw a ton of Flash of Lights at people and probably come out with a fair bit more mana than you went in with. But use your guaranteed crit on a holy light. With the glyph it'll heal people close to your target too for about as a much as a non-crit flash of light, and since it has the higher mana cost than Flash, it'll return more mana.
Whatever gear you get that has hit.
I think I have a total of about 60 hit.
source
I don't know how that will affect most guilds, but in mine it makes buffing stupidly simple (everybody gets kings, except me, unless another pally's in the raid).
That is pretty handy, i will have to look up a macro for that! Thanks!
I found a nice spot that breaks down alot of the pally healing goodness for noobs.
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f207/45259-holy-paladin-information.html
It included glyphs and such
/get
Wow, that kinda' sucks. That's a pretty good chunk of mana regen.
On the note of buffing, I love that Blizzard gives us 30min Pally buffs, BoK baseline, and now, I don't have to put points into Imp Wisdom or Imp Might anymore. Let the Shaman and the Warrior do it. Ima' hit my Holy Spam(light) button for free epics.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
The quote for those who can't access the link for whatever reason: Isn't it interesting that the bolded line was actually said by Blizzard?
TBH, I would have rather had Avenging Wrath turn into Bloodlust/Heroism :P
I'm on to your anti-shaman agenda. :evil:
I'm not against shaman getting a kings like buff :^:
I would quit this game so hard if shaman and paladins became Ken and Ryu.
It would have to be removed from forbearance. Popping Heroism during an enrage would be a very bad.
[I don't play Street Fighter -- is this a sufficiently facetious statement?]
1 point of defense (not defense rating) reduces your chance to be crit by .04%. Simple algebra dictates that 25 points of defense reduce your chance to be crit by 1%. So 125 defense over base defense cap (400), or 525 total defense, reduces your chance to be crit by 5%, which would make you uncrittable by an even level mob. Since you need .2% more crit reduction for each level a mob is above you, you need 5 more defense than (level cap x 5 + 125) to be uncrittable per mob level. The highest level mobs in heroics are 82, so that's why the defense cap for heroics is 535. The highest level mobs in raids are "bosses," which are always calculated as your level + 3 for all the nerdy behind the scenes math, so essentially they're level 83 for now, which is how the "defense cap" that most people speak of ends up at 540.
Also, can't you pad some of that defense out with resilience if you're having trouble finding the gear?
but essentially yes, if you run up to a Skull mob in a dungeon at level 20, for calculation purposes it's considered 23...
and your next question... Yes you can use resilience to pad your defense numbers, it is not the optimal way to gear however as it doesn't increase your avoidance stats at all... hence most gear straight defense as that pads dodge/parry/block %
Could be wrong though.
Resilience gear can be helpful for hitting the cap if you just can't get a good defense item in a certain slot to drop but happen to have access to a decent PvP item or two. It can also be handy to use, say, the Wintergrasp shoulder and/or helmet enchants that give AP and resilience if you don't have enough Hodir/Argent Crusade rep for their tanking enchants.
Resilience is a stopgap solution to hitting the defense cap, but don't count it out before you're rolling in all the nice tanking gear.
good point... I was thinking along the lines of level restrictions for entering zones... as there isn't one for IF or SW there would have to be a minimum level for each NPC
Me and my boar.
That is, of course, if there's 2 Paladins present.
Edit: Also, for the Holy discussion going on a lil while back, my Main is now specced/geared for raiding, if you'd like to armory for comparison/reference.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
while we're comparing holy paladin alts - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dath'Remar&n=aurelas
I actually wear the one Laurlana wears, mostly because I'm a gigantic critwhore. armory:
Edit: once i get my holy gear enchanted Ill post my pally in his holy gear.
I actually got the 7.5 helm last night, simply because I have too many points to care, and I was tired of wearing the 10-man hat. I have the 10-man T7 chest, and the 2 sockets don't really do anything but give me a little bit more intel. Even with the discussions on Divine Plea and Replenishment, that Mp5 and extra intel aren't going to make up for the massive amount of +crit on this chestpiece. /shrug I want the 25-man OS Chest, at the end of the day. Still need to get the helm from 25-man Thaddius, though it's strictly now to compare numbers between it and the 7.5 hat. The upcoming change to how Blessing of Wisdom and Mana Spring totem work may lead to a bit more Mp5 whoring, but we'll see. Mana is such a non-issue right now for this class that it kinda' doesn't matter.
Whenever you're comparing ANY gear to that 4-piece bonus, remember this: If you cast 1000 Holy Lights over the course of an evening, you're going to save a net total of 58,000 mana. This is using the 4-piece bonus, in conjunction with the HL cost reduct Libram and the Seal of Wisdom Glyph. That's a crap-ton of Holy Lights. With that said, that amount of mana is about 1/10 of what you'll regen from Divine Plea and Replenishment, over the course of that same evening.(THIS STATEMENT ASSUMES YOU CAN RAID BUFF OVER 25K MANA.)
It's about 55 extra Holy Lights. Basically, it's a drop in the bucket with where our regen currently is, through the use of superior intel/crit stats on off-set gear.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
Decided since i finally got my holy set finished and got everything gemmed and enchanted im going to take a break from tanking this weekend and heal 25 man naxx. Ill post my armory when i spec holy this weekend.
My one piece of advice is to find out if you're running with a Ret Paladin or not. If you are, check that they have Kings(fail if they don't). You can run with a deeper Ret Spec, which will allow you to pick up some extra +crit.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
Protection
* Guarded by the Light got an additional effect - In addition, your Divine Plea spell is 50/100% less likely to be dispelled.
It's a deep prot talent. A tree that really isn't anywhere near viable in PvP except as the ultimate flag runner. I'm okay with the idea of prot being PvP viable...just trying to figure out why you'd make this single change right now.
If the goal was to make Prot PvP viable I'd expect a bunch of changes. A single change is just kind of odd. I'm not complaining, I'll take random buffs it's just kind of weird to me.