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[WoW]Paladins: Your tears sustain our 30min seals

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    EnderEnder Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The reason pallies don't need the hit as much is that you're not required to hit to maintain resource management (to a certain extent). Warriors? Need rage from hits. DK's? Misses cause disruptions in rotation and rune refreshing. Rogues? Combo point generation and energy management. Pally? Uh...wait for the cooldown and do it again.

    I know mana is precious, but it's less so for you than for the other 3 melees, simply because your pool is comparatively larger than the 100/100/10 sec rune refresh mechanics. A singular miss, or even a couple misses, isn't enough to drop your dps a ton and prevent the use of skills.

    Ender on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    We don't get mana back if we miss with judge.

    It is important for every class to hit the specials cap.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited February 2009
    So, what glyphs would you recommend for ret spec leveling? I can fit two majors right now.

    Echo on
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    815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'm using Judgement and SoC on the pally I'm levelling right now.

    815165 on
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    NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    For ret leveling? If you use command, then judgement and command glyphs. Otherwise Judgement and whatever makes your life easiest.

    Nambkab on
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    FugaFuga Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I use the SoC glyph and the one that reduces the mana cost of hammer of wrath to 0.

    Fuga on
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    formatformat Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Judgement glyph is easily the best glyph you can get. So I would vote for that.

    The SoC glyph ends up being 1.4 extra PPM. and most mobs hardly live longer than 20 seconds.

    For levelling I would use Glyph of Hammer of Wrath since you will be using it all of the time and using less mana is always good. (untill you get divine plea and then you can get a different glyph)

    on a side note when i did the attack on undercity quest I decided to use Martyr because of the self-healing buff you get and i almost killed myself by judging it.

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    1.4 extra PPM is still a higher chance for it to proc on the first attack you do, which increases burst

    Dhalphir on
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    NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    So apparently ret is overpowered and I'm now the source of a post about it on the official forums. First time I've been a topic of discussion woo!

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14990767610&sid=1

    Nambkab on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    I was curious what the hell you meant, then I looked at the picture and thought "Oh, ok."

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    I should post my 48 picture in there and see how he reacts.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    FugaFuga Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Post it here.

    Fuga on
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    NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Heh, yeah I don't know what he expected really. He was horribly geared along with everyone in the bg except for me and the resto druid that followed me around. So basically I was one and two-shotting everything in sight. It wasn't even a game, it was a mindless slaughter. If he thinks ret is OP, he needs to go get some shammy on rogue action going and see what it feels like.

    Nambkab on
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    RavynBlackheartRavynBlackheart Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    815165 wrote: »
    I'm using Judgement and SoC on the pally I'm levelling right now.

    As am I, once I hit 80 I'll add Consecration to the glyphs. Our minors blow, really, which is the issue I'm having. Right now I have Sense Undead and Lay on Hands.

    RavynBlackheart on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    He was freaking out about this picture:

    Linked for 500kb+ filesize: http://i42.tinypic.com/10h85qf.png

    The 48 picture is
    48.PNG

    If you have a pocket healer, you are indestructible.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    If you have a pocket healer, you are indestructible.

    Basically the inviolate case in all mostly-pug battlegrounds.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Heck, I'd hop on the "Ret is overpowered" bandwagon. I dusted off my 70 paladin a few days ago and specced him Ret.. Gear was a smattering of PvP healing gear with a few AH and honor epics here and there. All 2 hand weapon skills were sub 100. And I was still destroying things. Terribly inefficient, mind you, but the power was still there. And it only got more powerful as I started collecting gear from quests and skilled up enough so I wasn't wiffing every melee swing.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    Little JimLittle Jim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2009
    Nambkab wrote: »
    So apparently ret is overpowered and I'm now the source of a post about it on the official forums. First time I've been a topic of discussion woo!

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14990767610&sid=1
    you wrote:
    Aww, someone took my screenshot. As I said in the game, I am in some of the best gear in the game, and I had a well geared and played resto druid following me the entire game. Couple that with mediocre geared alliance that didn't have a clue how to pvp and you get that screenshot. It's a BG, cry some more please.

    haha

    you're a tool!

    Little Jim on
    th_crabz.png
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    NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I freely admitted in the last thread that I'm a bit of a tool. I do however help people who need it and am generally a nice guy, I just happen to have an asshole streak in me.

    Nambkab on
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    AldarezAldarez Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Hey ret paladins - I've been reading some guides here and there to try to get an idea of how to maximise my dps, and I'm getting some conflicting reports on the best "rotation". Some say just to hit whatever's off cooldown and prioritise your biggest damage abilities, while others tell me to change things around to avoid conflicts more.

    So far I've been prioritising Judge - CS - DS - Consecrate (changing things up a bit for aoe of course), and I tend to approach 3k dps for bosses and average somewhere around 2500-2800 overall, according to Recount. I've seen and heard about paladins doing 6-7k dps on Patchwerk, and they make me wonder if I could be doing it better. 25man buffs and gear level would be factors for sure, but I'd still like to find out just how these people are managing those numbers.

    tldr - If you do 5k+ on raid bosses, how do you go about it?

    Aldarez on
    2188939-1.png
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Some of that is getting your 4 piece set and all the 25 buffs (since you benefit from each and every one just about).

    I am still toying around with the best rotation.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I put out 3800 dps on patchwerk 10-man last week, and still only have my 2 piece T7 bonus. The best thing you can do is literally pop everything you have. I mean, like when you have a spare cooldown pop Exorcism or Holy Wrath. Yeah, it's a huge mana drain, and I end up having to use a pot, but if you wanna see the big numbers you gotta go full out, as far as I'm concerned.

    As for rotations, just get a feel for how your cooldowns clash and try to minimize them. IE, CS vs Judgement if they're available at the same time, etc.

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
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    NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Firstly 4pc is huge for the set bonus for ret. Secondly pick up about 2% more crit, and you can prioritize DS over CS (this was a point of argument in the last thread, I don't want to rehash the argument, but my finding support this decision).

    Really, the important thing is to not waste cooldowns. Find something to do to fill in the gaps, just make sure to prioritize Judgement over everything, and never clip it. Really my only times where I tend to clip it are when hammer of wrath is available, which doesn't fit into the rotation at all. With your weap, my 4pc and slightly better stats(though not by much) I broke 5k on Patchwerk, so you are on the right path.

    Oh and that weap is totally worthy of a Berserker enchant if you don't think you'll see Betrayer anytime soon.

    Nambkab on
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    AldarezAldarez Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Thanks for the input all.

    You're probably right, I should put a real enchant on my weapon. Berserking's just so damn expensive though...

    I was a raiding prot paladin until recently, so my ret set is just a few off-spec pieces I had lying around and what I've managed to pick up in pugs or craft over the last couple of weeks - in case you're wondering about some of the odd items/enchants :)

    Aldarez on
    2188939-1.png
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    NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Berserker is worth every penny it costs. The first time it chain procs for you and stays up basically an entire fight you'll have this big goofy grin on your face and not care what you spent on it.

    Nambkab on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Nambkab wrote: »
    Berserker is worth every penny it costs. The first time it chain procs for you and stays up basically an entire fight you'll have this big goofy grin on your face and not care what you spent on it.

    I just picked up Heigan's polearm today and got it enchanted with berserker. Can't wait to try it out.

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Quick question for help for my wife, is there a list for holy pally gear that is non heroic based (so she could heal heroics and the like?) All she can find our lists that list heroic drops. And what are the target heal stats? The pally boards for wow suck dick.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    AldarezAldarez Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'm no holy paladin, although I'm told that the MaxDPS gear lists aren't too bad for holy paladins (and are easily customisable to filter out the sources you don't want), and the Elitist Jerks guides are usually pretty helpful when it comes to what stats to go for etc.

    Aldarez on
    2188939-1.png
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I single handedly held off BS against a priest, a mage, a warlock, and a shaman the other day while my g/f was getting her achievement. It's come to my attention that people on my battlegroup have no idea what PvP really is, and I may be able to exploit this heavily for the children's week.

    Nerf paladins? Not until the "holiday" shit is done so I don't have to hear any more about it from my girlfriend, until she decides to do the glory of the raider. FML

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Ok, so I've been holding off making the switch to ret (which I'd been meaning to do "soon" ever since the first fix they made pre-Wrath) because I really love Holy. The dps is pretty decent for questing, and the survivability is awesome. And I love healing peoples faces off.

    But my wife decided she wanted to play a DK on my account, for when she actually has time off from studying. And it was fucking depressing watching her level 57 character do 3 times more damage on a melee crit than my 75.

    So how do I ret? I gather that there isn't much of a rotation, but what stats do I gear for more? Str is good, but how to AP, crit, and armor pen rank? My BS friend gave me a big chunk of cobalt stuff, which I haven't really looked at, and I've been collecting blues and quest rewards that look retty, but I don't really know how to properly compare them to pick out the good ones. My bank and inv are pretty stuffed right now...

    I wanna see big smacky numbers instead of big healy numbers.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Ret goes like this:

    STR > all. Gem pure STR except what you need to activate your meta. After that, it's first come first serve rather than a rotation, and the priority is Judgement > Crusader Strike > Divine Storm > Consecrate > Exorcism. Once 3.1 hits, Exorcism will be useable on everything not just undead/demons, so that's hot. I'm Prot main spec, but I have great gear for all 3 specs and know how to play them all.

    Ret is quite fun. Oh, and don't use Seal of Command. Blood/Martyr is always what you use in PvE. Command is garbage.

    Joshmvii on
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    815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Strength is your best stat, it's worth 2 AP, armor pen is a bad stat for all melee right now. Just go for strength and crit.

    815165 on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Ok, so I've been holding off making the switch to ret (which I'd been meaning to do "soon" ever since the first fix they made pre-Wrath) because I really love Holy. The dps is pretty decent for questing, and the survivability is awesome. And I love healing peoples faces off.

    But my wife decided she wanted to play a DK on my account, for when she actually has time off from studying. And it was fucking depressing watching her level 57 character do 3 times more damage on a melee crit than my 75.

    So how do I ret? I gather that there isn't much of a rotation, but what stats do I gear for more? Str is good, but how to AP, crit, and armor pen rank? My BS friend gave me a big chunk of cobalt stuff, which I haven't really looked at, and I've been collecting blues and quest rewards that look retty, but I don't really know how to properly compare them to pick out the good ones. My bank and inv are pretty stuffed right now...

    I wanna see big smacky numbers instead of big healy numbers.

    My understanding is that it's in this order:

    Strength > Crit > AP > Armor Pen/Expertise/Agility > all the other fuckmuppetry

    For every 1 strength you gain 2 AP. So while that shiny purple chain wrist gives you 80 AP, your blue plate ones have 45 str, your plate bracers will give you better bonuses. Plus, stacks better with kings. What I'm up in arms about is the agility/crit. I'm not so sure going after agility is beneficial for that extra little bit of crit. With no mail pieces I'm sitting slightly around 30% crit, and then I see some paladins just loaded with agi-ap gear and they tend to do alright with DPS, but when kings gets slapped on the group I skyrocket past them. They tend to stay at 2000 dps while I end up sitting at 3-4K (if not higher depending on if I pick my nose for 15 minutes).

    You really should be getting advice from a ret paladin though, and not a prot paladin who wants to be ret.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    bowen wrote: »
    You really should be getting advice from a ret paladin though, and not a prot paladin who wants to be ret.
    Don't we only have one resident Retadin?

    So I'm kinda pissed;
    A friend that got me into wow came back. I had transfered off the low pop server we were on (Lethon) to see some new shinier shit....also I can get groups at 4AM easily in the new server (Lightninghoof).
    Long story short he wants to stay in Lethon because its West Coast time and that works better for him raiding wise (he doesn't get on until about 8 PST or some shit). I've tried telling him to stfu and come to a med/high pop server and it wont be an issue, but whatever.

    I dont want to transfer my pally back, and I really have no desire to dust off my warlock...or level the priest/drood/rogue/dk I have there.
    =(

    Radiation on
    PSN: jfrofl
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Agilty = crit. You don't gear it seperately. On early gear, you'll probably find you have more agility, but once you start raiding, you'll only have it on some rings, amulets, or weapons. Raiding plate does not have agility.

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
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    <3<3 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    bowen wrote: »
    Ok, so I've been holding off making the switch to ret (which I'd been meaning to do "soon" ever since the first fix they made pre-Wrath) because I really love Holy. The dps is pretty decent for questing, and the survivability is awesome. And I love healing peoples faces off.

    But my wife decided she wanted to play a DK on my account, for when she actually has time off from studying. And it was fucking depressing watching her level 57 character do 3 times more damage on a melee crit than my 75.

    So how do I ret? I gather that there isn't much of a rotation, but what stats do I gear for more? Str is good, but how to AP, crit, and armor pen rank? My BS friend gave me a big chunk of cobalt stuff, which I haven't really looked at, and I've been collecting blues and quest rewards that look retty, but I don't really know how to properly compare them to pick out the good ones. My bank and inv are pretty stuffed right now...

    I wanna see big smacky numbers instead of big healy numbers.

    My understanding is that it's in this order:

    Strength > Crit > AP > Armor Pen/Expertise/Agility > all the other fuckmuppetry

    For every 1 strength you gain 2 AP. So while that shiny purple chain wrist gives you 80 AP, your blue plate ones have 45 str, your plate bracers will give you better bonuses. Plus, stacks better with kings. What I'm up in arms about is the agility/crit. I'm not so sure going after agility is beneficial for that extra little bit of crit. With no mail pieces I'm sitting slightly around 30% crit, and then I see some paladins just loaded with agi-ap gear and they tend to do alright with DPS, but when kings gets slapped on the group I skyrocket past them. They tend to stay at 2000 dps while I end up sitting at 3-4K (if not higher depending on if I pick my nose for 15 minutes).

    You really should be getting advice from a ret paladin though, and not a prot paladin who wants to be ret.

    Str > Hit > Crit > Exp > Agi > AP > Haste > ArPen

    <3 on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    bowen wrote: »
    Ok, so I've been holding off making the switch to ret (which I'd been meaning to do "soon" ever since the first fix they made pre-Wrath) because I really love Holy. The dps is pretty decent for questing, and the survivability is awesome. And I love healing peoples faces off.

    But my wife decided she wanted to play a DK on my account, for when she actually has time off from studying. And it was fucking depressing watching her level 57 character do 3 times more damage on a melee crit than my 75.

    So how do I ret? I gather that there isn't much of a rotation, but what stats do I gear for more? Str is good, but how to AP, crit, and armor pen rank? My BS friend gave me a big chunk of cobalt stuff, which I haven't really looked at, and I've been collecting blues and quest rewards that look retty, but I don't really know how to properly compare them to pick out the good ones. My bank and inv are pretty stuffed right now...

    I wanna see big smacky numbers instead of big healy numbers.

    My understanding is that it's in this order:

    Strength > Crit > AP > Armor Pen/Expertise/Agility > all the other fuckmuppetry

    For every 1 strength you gain 2 AP. So while that shiny purple chain wrist gives you 80 AP, your blue plate ones have 45 str, your plate bracers will give you better bonuses. Plus, stacks better with kings. What I'm up in arms about is the agility/crit. I'm not so sure going after agility is beneficial for that extra little bit of crit. With no mail pieces I'm sitting slightly around 30% crit, and then I see some paladins just loaded with agi-ap gear and they tend to do alright with DPS, but when kings gets slapped on the group I skyrocket past them. They tend to stay at 2000 dps while I end up sitting at 3-4K (if not higher depending on if I pick my nose for 15 minutes).

    You really should be getting advice from a ret paladin though, and not a prot paladin who wants to be ret.

    Str > Hit > Crit > Exp > Agi > AP > Haste > ArPen

    Wasn't there better gains not capping hit anymore? Stopping at around 200 if you're really gimping your ass to hell with hit gear and losing shit loads of AP?

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    EnderEnder Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Ret goes like this:

    Ret is quite fun. Oh, and don't use Seal of Command. Blood/Martyr is always what you use in PvE if you like to crit yourself to death on Gluth/Thad/Raz students. Command is garbage.

    While raiding mostly uses Blood, to say Command is garbage is stupid. There are fights that prevent you from using Blood, and using Righteousness or some crappy seal is a huge drop in dps. One point for a seal that you can use for soloing as well as crap fights is pretty awesome.

    Ender on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Rule of thumb:
    If your raid is taking lots of damage over the period of the fight, it's probably not a good idea to use blood.
    Ex) Sapph the-big-blue-skeleton-dragon-of-wtf-frost-damage-over-time.

    In such situation, you will want to use command, unless you're an asshole.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    orthancstoneorthancstone TexasRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    bowen wrote: »
    Wasn't there better gains not capping hit anymore? Stopping at around 200 if you're really gimping your ass to hell with hit gear and losing shit loads of AP?

    Best rule of thumb I've seen is don't worry about hit unless you're missing a ton of judgments and thus are costing yourself a lot of mana regeneration.

    Being hit capped is nice as long as you aren't sacrificing significantly better stats for the expressed reason of hovering right at the magic cap number*. Oh, and take any potentially draenai into account (no reason to waste your time sitting at 8+% with your gear if you are getting a free 1% anyway).

    * - Possible example: A trinket with lots of hit vs one that gives you a nice AP gain (Fury, Greatness, Mirror). Unless you are really feeling the lack of hit (constant judgment misses), take the AP.

    orthancstone on
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