I just started a Pally and I gotta say I'm surprised at how much I like it.
I usually prefer pew pew magic or stealth but being able to take on multiple mobs is fun.
I expect this to change eventually, it's too funn.
It gets slightly slower to kill mobs the higher you get into Protection (versus Retribution), but that just means you need to pull more mobs.
I just hit 77 on my paladin. And I will admit, I actually go around attempting to pull more and more mobs to me when doing a quest. It is just more efficient as prot to take 6+ mobs than doing a one vs one. Only saying 6 to not over do it. But I generally start with 5ish, and just pull more and more into my aoe when I see the amount of damage they are dishing out to my face.
If you quest slowly as prot, you aren't pulling enough mobs
Yeah, prot's damage is mostly infinite target, so once you get to 6+ mobs, you're killing as fast as a DPS could do singles, on average. There were a lot of times leveling my prot paladin that I wished they hadn't made Northrend so fucking big
Yeah, prot's damage is mostly infinite target, so once you get to 6+ mobs, you're killing as fast as a DPS could do singles, on average. There were a lot of times leveling my prot paladin that I wished they hadn't made Northrend so fucking big
Northrend actually annoys me because of that. At least 90% of the mobs are made for soloing and not for aoeing down. Yeah sure, there are those sweet spots we have all found in our explorations. But, those sweet spots are just a small fraction of happiness to our gloom of open area questing. Grizzly Hills PvP dailies are pretty good for gathering a good bit. Near Blue Sky I can gather 8+ of the horde guys with out any of them dropping aggroing and running back. Then we have ranged targets and casters *growls*. Makes me wish I had a Death Knight with me at all times to just death grip them to me.
Upper and lower case are important. "mw" is minimum weapon damage and "MW" is maximum weapon damage.
Gotchaaaa....
rereading this thread, it seems that Command...eh?
I know most people are looking at it at 80 and in PVE raid and PVP, but for leveling is it still worth it?
I'm sad because I just got the old one, and it is SEX right now.
I have the Heirloom axe, and two things: SHIT when it goes off it does a lot of damage (and if goes off a lot) and I LIKE the little jump attack I do when it DOES proc.
Upper and lower case are important. "mw" is minimum weapon damage and "MW" is maximum weapon damage.
Gotchaaaa....
rereading this thread, it seems that Command...eh?
I know most people are looking at it at 80 and in PVE raid and PVP, but for leveling is it still worth it?
I'm sad because I just got the old one, and it is SEX right now.
I have the Heirloom axe, and two things: SHIT when it goes off it does a lot of damage (and if goes off a lot) and I LIKE the little jump attack I do when it DOES proc.
Gonna miss both of those things I guess....
But is it still worth it to take for leveling?
Until you get Seal of Blood/Martyr (or Vengeance/Corruption in the patch), you may as well for leveling.
Upper and lower case are important. "mw" is minimum weapon damage and "MW" is maximum weapon damage.
Gotchaaaa....
rereading this thread, it seems that Command...eh?
I know most people are looking at it at 80 and in PVE raid and PVP, but for leveling is it still worth it?
I'm sad because I just got the old one, and it is SEX right now.
I have the Heirloom axe, and two things: SHIT when it goes off it does a lot of damage (and if goes off a lot) and I LIKE the little jump attack I do when it DOES proc.
Gonna miss both of those things I guess....
But is it still worth it to take for leveling?
Until you get Seal of Blood/Martyr (or Vengeance/Corruption in the patch), you may as well for leveling.
Hmmm just did some math, At level 20 with my weapon it looks like the new Command will add about 50holy damage per swing and the judge will have a max damage of.....about 50 as well? I think so...
Armory
Its at least better than righteousness....
In short, use command for leveling. Its a great seal and judges nicely for now. After patch, use it until you get Seal of Vengence, then use that. Its going to be the tits
Bears have two, and neither of them realistically give them more interruption viability than paladins. Bash is functionally identical to HoJ (one-minute cooldown stun on the GCD that interrupts spellcasting). It can be talented down to a 30 second cooldown, but that talent isn't too useful in a PvE build. All the interrupt problems paladins complain about with HoJ also apply to Bash (except Bash actually has a slightly shorter range!).
Their other interrupt is Feral Charge, but using that requires being 8+ yards away from the target, and it also roots the target. So you can't use it to interrupt and reposition a caster unless the caster happens to be immune to roots. The time required on strafing to range and then charging makes it mostly nonviable for critical interrupts if you're already in melee range (i.e., tanking the target). And speaking of tanking the target, if you're moving around a bunch to try to interrupt things, that's going to lead to mobs/bosses moving around and screwing everyone over.
It's a much better interrupt in PvP, but then that's not the point of contention here. So, yes, bears are in the same boat as paladins when it comes to spells and raids.
Ardent Defender: Redesigned. Any damage that takes the paladin below 35% health is reduced. This reduction applies only to the portion that pushes the paladin below 35% health (example: a paladin at 50% health takes a 40% hit; the first 15% hits as normal while the next 25% is reduced). In addition, once every 2 minutes an attack that would have killed the paladin will fail to kill, and instead heal the paladin for up to 10/20/30% of maximum health depending on the paladin's defense rating (example: a paladin with defense equal to only 5 times his or her level will receive no healing from the talent, while a paladin who is immune to critical strikes from boss creatures through defense will receive the maximum amount).
I imagine it would have to restore a lot of mana to make up for the mana saved by having glyphed Seal of Wisdom up. Not to mention with seal of wisdom if you have a moment you can whack adds or the boss for a nice chunk of mana.
What ret Libram should I get? I have the green quest one that gives crit rating, but it's kind of silly to have a green still. I'd heard it was the best for DPS, but I can easily grab any of the badge ones if that's no longer the case.
Just do arenas and get the deadly libram, even with bad gear you should be able to get the rating requirement and it's the best available other than the furious libram.
EDIT: that said, building rating can take quite a while since you get 46 max per win.
don't forget that in 3.2, the Heroic badge libram will actually be good (it's based on Seal of Command)
Even ignoring the fact that SoC won't be used any more in 3.2 than now, the deadly libram is significantly better since the SoC libram is chance on hit. The level 70 Libram of Divine Judgement is also better, as is the Naxx 25/valor badge one.
that seems strange... so is corruption/vengeance going to be the DPS seal of choice now? it's a shame, because i was actually looking forward to the point when you know, our talented seal was worth using
yeah no kidding. my thoughts on ret DPS were that they were dropping blood/martyr and sliding Command in to take its place by making it function near identically, well, better than blood/martyr
doesn't make sense that vengeance/corruption would still be better. hope they nerf it a little
yeah no kidding. my thoughts on ret DPS were that they were dropping blood/martyr and sliding Command in to take its place by making it function near identically, well, better than blood/martyr
doesn't make sense that vengeance/corruption would still be better. hope they nerf it a little
They are dropping blood/martyr because the concept of losing health to do damage was stupid, and its supposed attempt to tone down pvp damage didn't work. Vengeance/corruption will take over as dps seals because they have to be built up, and therefore have less burst and won't be as good in pvp.
if that's the case then why are they making Seal of Command function like seal of blood, but with more damage
Its not really going to deal much more damage, and judgements already got nerfed a few patches back. They are trying to increase paladin pve dps, and vengeance is better for that role because its dot based.
DisruptorX2 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
because they toned down Ret damage through other avenues
well, with no experience with the PTR mind, the way they've worded the change to Vengeance, it sounds like it's not actually going to deal more damage on every swing but that 33% of the damage dealt will be holy damage, thus benefiting from righteous fury
i have no idea. it still comes across as incredibly dumb that tanks and retadins will be using the same damn seal.
Super Namicchi on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
benefitting from Righteous Fury? Well yeah...but tanks were already using SoV/SoCorr.
Didn't they say they wanted the Ret PvP seal to be Command (so they buffed it) and the Ret PvE seal to be Vengeance? Like, in a pally Q&A or something? And they didn't say anything about prot, but they'd have to buff something to justify losing the free 10 expertise from the SoV Glyph.
And I thought the new SoV was going to behave like this: at 5 stacks you deal an additional 33% of your weapon damage as holy plus your regular melee hit. So basically, 5 stacks is SoB minus the self-damage.
So in so far as avoidance goes. Should I stack block as much as possible seeing as 2 of my main tanking abilities are associated with it?
Block is not worth aiming for, ever, at all, in any way shape or form, for your every day tanking set.
Basically just remember that.
This is true, but don't pass/DE/destroy/vendor block items for this reason.
For heroics and Naxx (especially 10-man) block value (and rating if you aren't block capped) isn't a bad stat for tanking Paladins. I keep block pieces, and have a 535-538 defense block set that I use for heroics and trash. I don't sacrifice much avoidance overall (not that it matters because I'm blocking most of every unavoided hit) and really put out more dps/threat in this set with more overall mitigation (+block set is also, naturally, +strength).
I'd never tank a dragon in this set, but for most non-heavy hitters it's pretty great.
But, as of right now, block sucks for every cutting edge fight except (*maybe*) Algalon and is never something we want to sacrifice avoidance or stamina for in Ulduar... in there, you just need to make sure you can take more than one hit from the boss without dying, and even blocking 2K isn't gonna do that for you most the time.
You do realize that switching to the buffed SoV is supposed to be a PvE DPS increase right? I mean, you've got your 5 stack seal ticking for like 1k raid buffed, on top of everything else? I don't know if anyone has been running numbers or what they've seen on the PTRs yet, though. It may be different.
If you wanna get annoyed at PvP vs PvE, how about the best in slot libram right now is only available via arena? THAT pisses me off something fierce. I shouldn't have to do PvP for something that's for PvE, let alone the shithole that is arena.
Yes, I know it's great for PvP too, but still. PvE BiS from PvP? WTF is this shit?
what i am saying is that i don't like seal of vengeance :P i wish they were making seal of command the Ret PvE seal of choice instead of saying 'everyone in melee use vengeance/corruption forever!!!!11'
Posts
I usually prefer pew pew magic or stealth but being able to take on multiple mobs is fun.
I expect this to change eventually, it's too funn.
It gets slightly slower to kill mobs the higher you get into Protection (versus Retribution), but that just means you need to pull more mobs.
I just hit 77 on my paladin. And I will admit, I actually go around attempting to pull more and more mobs to me when doing a quest. It is just more efficient as prot to take 6+ mobs than doing a one vs one. Only saying 6 to not over do it. But I generally start with 5ish, and just pull more and more into my aoe when I see the amount of damage they are dishing out to my face.
If you quest slowly as prot, you aren't pulling enough mobs
Northrend actually annoys me because of that. At least 90% of the mobs are made for soloing and not for aoeing down. Yeah sure, there are those sweet spots we have all found in our explorations. But, those sweet spots are just a small fraction of happiness to our gloom of open area questing. Grizzly Hills PvP dailies are pretty good for gathering a good bit. Near Blue Sky I can gather 8+ of the horde guys with out any of them dropping aggroing and running back. Then we have ranged targets and casters *growls*. Makes me wish I had a Death Knight with me at all times to just death grip them to me.
It no longer auto-crits stunned targets, but it now also has a static +damage? Instead of a chance to inflict holy damage?
Can it still crit?
Is it worth it now?
(p.s. I am leveling as Ret, so I don't mean raid-wise or pvp-wise)
Is it a worthwhile damage boost?
Also- In the mmo-champ talent calculator, what is the MW variable? It says AP+ Spell power + MW
is that like...weapon speed?
Gotchaaaa....
rereading this thread, it seems that Command...eh?
I know most people are looking at it at 80 and in PVE raid and PVP, but for leveling is it still worth it?
I'm sad because I just got the old one, and it is SEX right now.
I have the Heirloom axe, and two things: SHIT when it goes off it does a lot of damage (and if goes off a lot) and I LIKE the little jump attack I do when it DOES proc.
Gonna miss both of those things I guess....
But is it still worth it to take for leveling?
Until you get Seal of Blood/Martyr (or Vengeance/Corruption in the patch), you may as well for leveling.
Hmmm just did some math, At level 20 with my weapon it looks like the new Command will add about 50holy damage per swing and the judge will have a max damage of.....about 50 as well? I think so...
Armory
Its at least better than righteousness....
Their other interrupt is Feral Charge, but using that requires being 8+ yards away from the target, and it also roots the target. So you can't use it to interrupt and reposition a caster unless the caster happens to be immune to roots. The time required on strafing to range and then charging makes it mostly nonviable for critical interrupts if you're already in melee range (i.e., tanking the target). And speaking of tanking the target, if you're moving around a bunch to try to interrupt things, that's going to lead to mobs/bosses moving around and screwing everyone over.
It's a much better interrupt in PvP, but then that's not the point of contention here. So, yes, bears are in the same boat as paladins when it comes to spells and raids.
Damn, that's pretty cool.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Not by gems or enchants at least.
Some block is good from gear but go out of your way for it.
EDIT: that said, building rating can take quite a while since you get 46 max per win.
Even ignoring the fact that SoC won't be used any more in 3.2 than now, the deadly libram is significantly better since the SoC libram is chance on hit. The level 70 Libram of Divine Judgement is also better, as is the Naxx 25/valor badge one.
Block is not worth aiming for, ever, at all, in any way shape or form, for your every day tanking set.
Basically just remember that.
doesn't make sense that vengeance/corruption would still be better. hope they nerf it a little
They are dropping blood/martyr because the concept of losing health to do damage was stupid, and its supposed attempt to tone down pvp damage didn't work. Vengeance/corruption will take over as dps seals because they have to be built up, and therefore have less burst and won't be as good in pvp.
Its not really going to deal much more damage, and judgements already got nerfed a few patches back. They are trying to increase paladin pve dps, and vengeance is better for that role because its dot based.
i have no idea. it still comes across as incredibly dumb that tanks and retadins will be using the same damn seal.
And I thought the new SoV was going to behave like this: at 5 stacks you deal an additional 33% of your weapon damage as holy plus your regular melee hit. So basically, 5 stacks is SoB minus the self-damage.
pvp once again getting its shit in my pve and making it lame
Seal of Blood/Martyr already is lame, and they are buffing ret damage.
For heroics and Naxx (especially 10-man) block value (and rating if you aren't block capped) isn't a bad stat for tanking Paladins. I keep block pieces, and have a 535-538 defense block set that I use for heroics and trash. I don't sacrifice much avoidance overall (not that it matters because I'm blocking most of every unavoided hit) and really put out more dps/threat in this set with more overall mitigation (+block set is also, naturally, +strength).
I'd never tank a dragon in this set, but for most non-heavy hitters it's pretty great.
But, as of right now, block sucks for every cutting edge fight except (*maybe*) Algalon and is never something we want to sacrifice avoidance or stamina for in Ulduar... in there, you just need to make sure you can take more than one hit from the boss without dying, and even blocking 2K isn't gonna do that for you most the time.
Origin: Viycktor
You do realize that switching to the buffed SoV is supposed to be a PvE DPS increase right? I mean, you've got your 5 stack seal ticking for like 1k raid buffed, on top of everything else? I don't know if anyone has been running numbers or what they've seen on the PTRs yet, though. It may be different.
If you wanna get annoyed at PvP vs PvE, how about the best in slot libram right now is only available via arena? THAT pisses me off something fierce. I shouldn't have to do PvP for something that's for PvE, let alone the shithole that is arena.
Edit: Er... this is to ArcanisTheImpotent
what i am saying is that i don't like seal of vengeance :P i wish they were making seal of command the Ret PvE seal of choice instead of saying 'everyone in melee use vengeance/corruption forever!!!!11'