But, as of right now, block sucks for every cutting edge fight except (*maybe*) Algalon and is never something we want to sacrifice avoidance or stamina for in Ulduar... in there, you just need to make sure you can take more than one hit from the boss without dying, and even blocking 2K isn't gonna do that for you most the time.
I'd assume a block set could work for the Kologarn add tank!
what i am saying is that i don't like seal of vengeance :P i wish they were making seal of command the Ret PvE seal of choice instead of saying 'everyone in melee use vengeance/corruption forever!!!!11'
What's the difference? It's not like which seal you have up changes anything about what you do in PvE (except your damage). You'll still just use your abilities as they come off cooldown. Is there something about having two DoTs ticking on the target instead of one that bothers you?
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
But, as of right now, block sucks for every cutting edge fight except (*maybe*) Algalon and is never something we want to sacrifice avoidance or stamina for in Ulduar... in there, you just need to make sure you can take more than one hit from the boss without dying, and even blocking 2K isn't gonna do that for you most the time.
I'd assume a block set could work for the Kologarn add tank!
wel yeah...
but that applies to any fight where you're tanking adds that don't hit for much
and in the end, all you're doing is making trivial incoming damage MORE trivial.
But, as of right now, block sucks for every cutting edge fight except (*maybe*) Algalon and is never something we want to sacrifice avoidance or stamina for in Ulduar... in there, you just need to make sure you can take more than one hit from the boss without dying, and even blocking 2K isn't gonna do that for you most the time.
I'd assume a block set could work for the Kologarn add tank!
wel yeah...
but that applies to any fight where you're tanking adds that don't hit for much
and in the end, all you're doing is making trivial incoming damage MORE trivial.
My point was more that there are almost no Ulduar bosses with lots of little adds to tank. Maybe Mimiron? But I don't know how hard the non-junk bots hit.
Anyone have any info from the PTRs on how the changes to block value are like? They doubled the block values on everything but shields, right?
Yeah, every bonus +BV from items (not from strength and not the inherent block value on shields) is getting doubled.
And I think every block trinket is getting it's proc duration doubled.
I don't think it's enough, and Blizz said that it's basically a short-term stop-gap attempt to make block better while they figure out how to make it good again... but I could be wrong. For a Paladin that is block capped, Block value is an effective health increase. The problem is that most +BV items come with +BR as well, and +BR once your block capped is wasted itemization.
edit: block librams are getting a proc duration increase as well
Vicktor on
Origin: Viycktor
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
yeah
i'm looking at BV items that drop in our raids with an eye to whether they will be decent come 3.2
i'm actually looking at the difference between warrior t8.5 and Legplates of Sovereignty....t8.5 legs already give about 130 BV after talents...and about 300hp. The Legplates of Sovereignty have 8 expertise and 0.2% avoidance over the t8.5..but maybe with the fact that it'll be ~240 BV after talents from those t8.5 legs.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
running Naxx, yes.
Running Ulduar you might want to balance it out with a bit of avoidance. I don't, because if I had any more avoidance than I do now I'd be completely rage starved, but you might be different as a paladin.
Thats me as of right now -- I just started back up after a few months on hiatus. Restarted on Tuesday - matter of fact.
I am running VH daily to get the tanking trinket (and easy easy badges) and I will have my Titansteel ring in four days to replace that worthless spell ring from back when I was holy. I just need to get my Dragon's Eyes from my JC Daily.
Also -- Ignore my glyphs, as I am re-glyphing everything tonight.
If you wanna get annoyed at PvP vs PvE, how about the best in slot libram right now is only available via arena? THAT pisses me off something fierce. I shouldn't have to do PvP for something that's for PvE, let alone the shithole that is arena.
At least there are reasonable alternatives now. Prior to 3.1, a 10 man Ret paladin (such as myself) had a libram from a Borean Tundra quest and a libram from Grizzly Hills PvP to choose from (since the emblem one was utter garbage) if we did not do hardcore Arena.
That was as stupid as it gets.
EDIT: Yes I know 25 man Naxx is easily pugable, so doing Noth wouldn't have been impossible. But I shouldn't have to deal with asshats to make up for Bliz's inadequate foresight.
If you wanna get annoyed at PvP vs PvE, how about the best in slot libram right now is only available via arena? THAT pisses me off something fierce. I shouldn't have to do PvP for something that's for PvE, let alone the shithole that is arena.
At least there are reasonable alternatives now. Prior to 3.1, a 10 man Ret paladin (such as myself) had a libram from a Borean Tundra quest and a libram from Grizzly Hills PvP to choose from (since the emblem one was utter garbage) if we did not do hardcore Arena.
That was as stupid as it gets.
EDIT: Yes I know 25 man Naxx is easily pugable, so doing Noth wouldn't have been impossible. But I shouldn't have to deal with asshats to make up for Bliz's inadequate foresight.
Speaking of Ret Librams, what's going to be the easiest one to obtain come 3.2? I'm still using the Borean one for my off-spec
Is there one you can buy with conquest emblems? That would probably be the easiest to get as anything Ulduar and earlier will drop them. That's like, one Naxx 10 run. Or H-Nexus + H-OK + H-CoS
When I run my avoidance calculation macro to see if its 102% should I do it while my holyshield and crab are activated or while they are off?
You don't have to worry about being uncrushable anymore. 540 defense and you're golden as that prevents crits (excluding some bosses that have a +crit buff).
Tips of advice I give our new tanks:
Tanking 10 man naxx? shoot for 25K unbuffed and min defense of 540
Tanking 25 man naxx? shoot for 28K unbuffed and min defense of 540
Tanking 10 man uld? shoot for 30K unbuffed and min defense of 540
Tanking 25 man uld? shoot for 32K unbuffed and a min defense of 540 (each of your defense stats should add up to at least 60% when combined without using buffs or onclick-talents to increase it).
As long as you have competent healers 10 man uld isn't anything as long as you have the gear from 10 man naxx and a little chutzpah. Those are all rough guides, obviously you can come in a little short except for the defense portion of it.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Also, don't just get rid of block for dodge and parry. Dodge and parry are great avoidance stats, but a lot can be said for a tank that takes even less spike damage than a warrior does.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
To put it in perspective when we first reached kel I had about 22K hp. It's doable but boy is it an ass. And I hope that my understudies don't have to struggle as much their first time into naxx like we did a little bit because how badly we wanted to get in and get it done.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I am running VH daily to get the tanking trinket (and easy easy badges) and I will have my Titansteel ring in four days to replace that worthless spell ring from back when I was holy. I just need to get my Dragon's Eyes from my JC Daily.
On my Paladin, tanking trinkets were a tough.
If you're at the point where you're just grabbing gear you can get (I didn't armory you) then there are plenty of decent +block blues that are good to start off with. Early on, getting to 102.4% avoidance+miss+block chance can be valuable - but not at the expense of item level and stamina.
The Lavathor's talisman trinket may be a fool's errand. I haven't looked at my stats recently, but last I recall, my Pally has complete H VH about 35 times and has only seen that boss THRICE and it never did drop the trinket... (However, my DK tanked it for the first time the other day and it dropped... I let the ret paladin have it...).
You're best trinket options at the heroic level is the Essence of Gossamer from H AN (which is an easy and quick instance, probably more-so even than VH and has the bonus of dropping a belt pretty equivalent to the badge one to save you on emblems) and the EoHeroism trinket. I was so trinket starved for a few months that I used the +armor trinket from H Gun (which really isn't all that bad and it has a good on-use). The H AN trinket is really just a stamina trinket, no use ability and the proc is crap/rare - so it extends the useful range of Ardent Defender, which will become even better in the next patch...
But you mentioned being a Jewelcrafter... so likely you've got one super sexy trinket anyway.
Speaking of Ret Librams, what's going to be the easiest one to obtain come 3.2? I'm still using the Borean one for my off-spec
I'm going to presume that all the Emblem librams will be roughly the same price in terms of # of emblems needed, in which case Libram of Valiance would be the preferred choice due to it benefiting the new Seal of choice (Vengeance/Corruption).
Well I've got my crab for Stamina and a short buff. The other one is the interesting one.
If you're just looking for [Tank Trinket] to flesh out your set, the absolute easiest one to get is Dabiri's Enigma, which is a blue gotten from a Netherstorm quest chain. Easily soloable at 80. It's not much compared to Northrend trinkets but it is [Tank Trinket] and has block on it as well. I got that and the one from Shadow Labyrinth for my wife when she was trying to get uncrittable. They were soon subbed out when she got real tanking trinkets,but they helped close the gap to the cap.
Well I've got my crab for Stamina and a short buff. The other one is the interesting one.
Quick note about your Dragons eyes gems, dont stick two of them in the crab, put one and a 24 stam blue gem in there. For max stam out of the dragons eyes you want to use them in places where you either cant get the best stam socket bonus with a blue gem (like on t7 shoulders, yellow socket with a 6 stam socket bonus) or on a piece of gear with a stam socket bonus requiring one blue and one something else (t8 chest, 9 stam bonus requiring one blue and one red). Ive seen a lot of people put the dragons eyes in blue sockets, and the blacksmithing sockets.
As far as trinketes go your crab and the essence of gossamer from H An will last you till ulduar, however it is always a good idea to have a multitude of trinkets for different situations. I have the defense trinket from naxx, emblem of heroism dodge trinket, lavanthors talisman, and a couple more i cant remember. Hell i even kept my Baricade of Eternity and Legplates of Sovereignty for months after I got my Wall of Terror and T7.5 legs, and never used either of them once, but kept them in case I might need either for some reason.
Well I've got my crab for Stamina and a short buff. The other one is the interesting one.
Quick note about your Dragons eyes gems, dont stick two of them in the crab, put one and a 24 stam blue gem in there. For max stam out of the dragons eyes you want to use them in places where you either cant get the best stam socket bonus with a blue gem (like on t7 shoulders, yellow socket with a 6 stam socket bonus) or on a piece of gear with a stam socket bonus requiring one blue and one something else (t8 chest, 9 stam bonus requiring one blue and one red). Ive seen a lot of people put the dragons eyes in blue sockets, and the blacksmithing sockets.
This will only be relevant for another month or so before Dragon's Eyes lose their prismatic status.
Im hoping/thinking they arent going through with the change to dragons eyes. I havent seen it in the patch notes, or seen anything about it since the first mention of it. Im hoping with the buffs theyre doing to other professions to balance around epic gems in BS extra sockets that they wont remove the prismatic quality of dragons eyes.
Uh, they're going through with it. Why wouldn't they? JC already gets the same amount of stat bonus that other professions get via the extra stat points on Dragon's Eyes. The stats on DEs are getting buffed next patch to compensate for epic gems. The prismatic quality is over the top and is what makes JC the best min-max profession right now. I'm assuming Blizzard also doesn't like the fact that JCs can completely ignore meta gem requirements right now.
Speaking of Ret Librams, what's going to be the easiest one to obtain come 3.2? I'm still using the Borean one for my off-spec
I'm going to presume that all the Emblem librams will be roughly the same price in terms of # of emblems needed, in which case Libram of Valiance would be the preferred choice due to it benefiting the new Seal of choice (Vengeance/Corruption).
Is that the new one coming out in 3.2? I'm using the Valor one now (I also don't really have the option of doing 25's, nor do I like doing them, honestly. It's a huge clusterfuck and loot takes FOREVER to go through. If it's with my guild and I magically am available during the time, I might try, but meh.)
Is that the new one coming out in 3.2? I'm using the Valor one now (I also don't really have the option of doing 25's, nor do I like doing them, honestly. It's a huge clusterfuck and loot takes FOREVER to go through. If it's with my guild and I magically am available during the time, I might try, but meh.)
I doubt it will be readily available considering the only libram easily available when it was introduced so far in WotLK was the shitty emblem of heroism one. However with the introduction of another arena season, there's a decent chance the deadly libram will lose rating requirements making it really easy to get and the fourth best in slot behind the SoV libram and the two better PvP librams. It's significantly better than the Valor badge/Ulduar ones at least.
Cokebotle, what kind of server to play on? US? EU? I have similar issues with raiding because I am on a server that is 14 hours difference to my own time here in Korea. Ten mans are much much easier for me to find PUGs for. Seems I lucked out one night for a 25 man on my rogue. Stayed up until 7 am doing that stupid raid. People couldn't understand my frustration at wipes and being sleepy and cranky lol
Cokebotle, what kind of server to play on? US? EU? I have similar issues with raiding because I am on a server that is 14 hours difference to my own time here in Korea. Ten mans are much much easier for me to find PUGs for. Seems I lucked out one night for a 25 man on my rogue. Stayed up until 7 am doing that stupid raid. People couldn't understand my frustration at wipes and being sleepy and cranky lol
Lol the group of mouth breathers that are usual pugs don't understand anything other than "Shiny New Purples."
Cokebotle, what kind of server to play on? US? EU? I have similar issues with raiding because I am on a server that is 14 hours difference to my own time here in Korea. Ten mans are much much easier for me to find PUGs for. Seems I lucked out one night for a 25 man on my rogue. Stayed up until 7 am doing that stupid raid. People couldn't understand my frustration at wipes and being sleepy and cranky lol
Lol the group of mouth breathers that are usual pugs don't understand anything other than "Shiny New Purples."
Epic phat lewtz?! I can haz t7.5 after I did 1200 dps through out?!
Cokebotle, what kind of server to play on? US? EU? I have similar issues with raiding because I am on a server that is 14 hours difference to my own time here in Korea. Ten mans are much much easier for me to find PUGs for. Seems I lucked out one night for a 25 man on my rogue. Stayed up until 7 am doing that stupid raid. People couldn't understand my frustration at wipes and being sleepy and cranky lol
I play on a US server. Got into my friend's guild (he's also here in Japan, and we went to college together) and happened onto a late-night run once. Did well enough they asked us to become regulars.
I love being on a US server for cranking through quests and dailies, because the majority of idiots are asleep.
Posts
What's the difference? It's not like which seal you have up changes anything about what you do in PvE (except your damage). You'll still just use your abilities as they come off cooldown. Is there something about having two DoTs ticking on the target instead of one that bothers you?
wel yeah...
but that applies to any fight where you're tanking adds that don't hit for much
and in the end, all you're doing is making trivial incoming damage MORE trivial.
And I think every block trinket is getting it's proc duration doubled.
I don't think it's enough, and Blizz said that it's basically a short-term stop-gap attempt to make block better while they figure out how to make it good again... but I could be wrong. For a Paladin that is block capped, Block value is an effective health increase. The problem is that most +BV items come with +BR as well, and +BR once your block capped is wasted itemization.
edit: block librams are getting a proc duration increase as well
Origin: Viycktor
i'm looking at BV items that drop in our raids with an eye to whether they will be decent come 3.2
i'm actually looking at the difference between warrior t8.5 and Legplates of Sovereignty....t8.5 legs already give about 130 BV after talents...and about 300hp. The Legplates of Sovereignty have 8 expertise and 0.2% avoidance over the t8.5..but maybe with the fact that it'll be ~240 BV after talents from those t8.5 legs.
So more or less, since I'm over 540 defense (548) I should just start cramming more and more stamina?
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Running Ulduar you might want to balance it out with a bit of avoidance. I don't, because if I had any more avoidance than I do now I'd be completely rage starved, but you might be different as a paladin.
Do not under estimate the importance of hit rating, especially as a Pally Tank.
Thats me as of right now -- I just started back up after a few months on hiatus. Restarted on Tuesday - matter of fact.
I am running VH daily to get the tanking trinket (and easy easy badges) and I will have my Titansteel ring in four days to replace that worthless spell ring from back when I was holy. I just need to get my Dragon's Eyes from my JC Daily.
Also -- Ignore my glyphs, as I am re-glyphing everything tonight.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
At least there are reasonable alternatives now. Prior to 3.1, a 10 man Ret paladin (such as myself) had a libram from a Borean Tundra quest and a libram from Grizzly Hills PvP to choose from (since the emblem one was utter garbage) if we did not do hardcore Arena.
That was as stupid as it gets.
EDIT: Yes I know 25 man Naxx is easily pugable, so doing Noth wouldn't have been impossible. But I shouldn't have to deal with asshats to make up for Bliz's inadequate foresight.
Pins!
Speaking of Ret Librams, what's going to be the easiest one to obtain come 3.2? I'm still using the Borean one for my off-spec
You don't have to worry about being uncrushable anymore. 540 defense and you're golden as that prevents crits (excluding some bosses that have a +crit buff).
Tips of advice I give our new tanks:
Tanking 10 man naxx? shoot for 25K unbuffed and min defense of 540
Tanking 25 man naxx? shoot for 28K unbuffed and min defense of 540
Tanking 10 man uld? shoot for 30K unbuffed and min defense of 540
Tanking 25 man uld? shoot for 32K unbuffed and a min defense of 540 (each of your defense stats should add up to at least 60% when combined without using buffs or onclick-talents to increase it).
As long as you have competent healers 10 man uld isn't anything as long as you have the gear from 10 man naxx and a little chutzpah. Those are all rough guides, obviously you can come in a little short except for the defense portion of it.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
We did the spider and construct wings last night with no wipes or even deaths on the bosses. It was a pretty good night. My first time tanking.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
If you're at the point where you're just grabbing gear you can get (I didn't armory you) then there are plenty of decent +block blues that are good to start off with. Early on, getting to 102.4% avoidance+miss+block chance can be valuable - but not at the expense of item level and stamina.
The Lavathor's talisman trinket may be a fool's errand. I haven't looked at my stats recently, but last I recall, my Pally has complete H VH about 35 times and has only seen that boss THRICE and it never did drop the trinket... (However, my DK tanked it for the first time the other day and it dropped... I let the ret paladin have it...).
You're best trinket options at the heroic level is the Essence of Gossamer from H AN (which is an easy and quick instance, probably more-so even than VH and has the bonus of dropping a belt pretty equivalent to the badge one to save you on emblems) and the EoHeroism trinket. I was so trinket starved for a few months that I used the +armor trinket from H Gun (which really isn't all that bad and it has a good on-use). The H AN trinket is really just a stamina trinket, no use ability and the proc is crap/rare - so it extends the useful range of Ardent Defender, which will become even better in the next patch...
But you mentioned being a Jewelcrafter... so likely you've got one super sexy trinket anyway.
Origin: Viycktor
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
I'm going to presume that all the Emblem librams will be roughly the same price in terms of # of emblems needed, in which case Libram of Valiance would be the preferred choice due to it benefiting the new Seal of choice (Vengeance/Corruption).
Pins!
Quick note about your Dragons eyes gems, dont stick two of them in the crab, put one and a 24 stam blue gem in there. For max stam out of the dragons eyes you want to use them in places where you either cant get the best stam socket bonus with a blue gem (like on t7 shoulders, yellow socket with a 6 stam socket bonus) or on a piece of gear with a stam socket bonus requiring one blue and one something else (t8 chest, 9 stam bonus requiring one blue and one red). Ive seen a lot of people put the dragons eyes in blue sockets, and the blacksmithing sockets.
As far as trinketes go your crab and the essence of gossamer from H An will last you till ulduar, however it is always a good idea to have a multitude of trinkets for different situations. I have the defense trinket from naxx, emblem of heroism dodge trinket, lavanthors talisman, and a couple more i cant remember. Hell i even kept my Baricade of Eternity and Legplates of Sovereignty for months after I got my Wall of Terror and T7.5 legs, and never used either of them once, but kept them in case I might need either for some reason.
Is that the new one coming out in 3.2? I'm using the Valor one now (I also don't really have the option of doing 25's, nor do I like doing them, honestly. It's a huge clusterfuck and loot takes FOREVER to go through. If it's with my guild and I magically am available during the time, I might try, but meh.)
Yes, it is the new 3.2 libram.
Pins!
If some of the Meta gem requirements weren't absolutely stupid, I'd agree with you.
Lol the group of mouth breathers that are usual pugs don't understand anything other than "Shiny New Purples."
Epic phat lewtz?! I can haz t7.5 after I did 1200 dps through out?!
I play on a US server. Got into my friend's guild (he's also here in Japan, and we went to college together) and happened onto a late-night run once. Did well enough they asked us to become regulars.
I love being on a US server for cranking through quests and dailies, because the majority of idiots are asleep.
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
Please God, tell me thats one of them horde only suits.