And holy shit what a difference it was. The spec went from boring and slow to a total blast to play. No wonder they're nerfing it next patch; it makes such a huge difference - perhaps less of one going from DWing 1hs to DWing 2hs, but still.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, but are you implying that they're nerfing arms next patch? They're not. It's actually getting buffed a bit.
The way I read it, he's talking about Titan's Grip being awesome.
See, that would make more sense, but the wording of everything threw me off. Reading it a couple more times, I see that he was suffering as 2h fury instead of dual wielding and somehow surprised by the bad performance (which probably wouldn't be much worse than if he were arms spec, actually). I get what he was saying now, though.
And holy shit what a difference it was. The spec went from boring and slow to a total blast to play. No wonder they're nerfing it next patch; it makes such a huge difference - perhaps less of one going from DWing 1hs to DWing 2hs, but still.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, but are you implying that they're nerfing arms next patch? They're not. It's actually getting buffed a bit.
I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
it occurred to me that the PvP shoulder enchant (30 stam, 15 resil) is quite possibly a better enchant than the standard Sons of Hodir 20dodge 15 def enchant.
15 resilience is more uncrittablity than the 15 defense, so it lets you dip under defense minimum if needed.
And 20 dodge rating is a tiny amount of dodge...0.3% before diminishing returns. Add in the avoidance from defense, and you're probably sacrificing 0.5% avoidance for a 300 HP boost.
Yeah, my friend with a well geared DK tank uses the Wintergrasp shoulder enchant because he doesn't want to go through the Hodir grind. It works great, although sometimes you get some idiot hitting up the Armory and telling him he's not uncrittable because he only has (something like) 537 defense. He's been using it since pretty much the start of WotLK, actually.
I didn't realize 20 dodge rating only gave .3% dodge, though. Wow.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
sorry its actually closer to 0.5%.
Though by the time you're at 20% dodge, it is only going to give around 0.3%.
I went from the inscription enchant (52 dodge) to the Hodir one (20 dodge) and lost 0.5% dodge, went from 21% to 20.5%.
it occurred to me that the PvP shoulder enchant (30 stam, 15 resil) is quite possibly a better enchant than the standard Sons of Hodir 20dodge 15 def enchant.
15 resilience is more uncrittablity than the 15 defense, so it lets you dip under defense minimum if needed.
And 20 dodge rating is a tiny amount of dodge...0.3% before diminishing returns. Add in the avoidance from defense, and you're probably sacrificing 0.5% avoidance for a 300 HP boost.
This is more or less how I feel about it, having tried both. I get enough avoidance from other sources that it's not worth the hit to my HP to go with the Hodir enchant.
So, just checked EJ and it seemed really doom and gloom with regards to fury in 3.1.
Should I lrn2arms?
You should definitely have a set ready for it. Fury is somewhere around at the level that arms is at right now on live, and arms is getting a boost to be a good bit higher than where it is now. Assuming you have a decent fury set you shouldn't have to make much changes to make arms work -- just have an axe/polearm ready, and the ability to swap a few pieces to get to 8% hit and 22 expertise. You could, in theory, get the arms expertise requirements down to a mere 14, but there just aren't the points to spare in the tree to pick up weapon mastery.
One of the 3 warriors in my guild recently went from Fury to Arms. He had over 11% hit and 367 haste rating. He also didn't spec for imp overpower and only put 2 points in TfB. I'm so glad he got one of the guild's Betrayers =P
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I need to figure out a good Arms spec for 3.1 now that it'll actually be viable again. I always enjoyed it over TG Fury even back in the 3.0 PTR. Sudden Death is civilization.
So, just checked EJ and it seemed really doom and gloom with regards to fury in 3.1.
Should I lrn2arms?
You should definitely have a set ready for it. Fury is somewhere around at the level that arms is at right now on live, and arms is getting a boost to be a good bit higher than where it is now. Assuming you have a decent fury set you shouldn't have to make much changes to make arms work -- just have an axe/polearm ready, and the ability to swap a few pieces to get to 8% hit and 22 expertise. You could, in theory, get the arms expertise requirements down to a mere 14, but there just aren't the points to spare in the tree to pick up weapon mastery.
I mean is arms somehow getting an extra -1% dodge without taking weapon mastery? I haven't looked at the tree in ages, but I thought at best you could get -2% dodge from talents, leaving you with 18 expertise required.
Oh, it's arms Q&A time, my favorite! (sorry prot discussion that took most of the last page)
Imp execute is a much bigger part of arms play than it is for fury, mostly because it works with sudden death (effectively adding another 5 rage worth of damage into every SD execute). To cap dodge requires 6.5% dodge reduction, which is 26 expertise. Strength of Arms gives 4 expertise, so as arms you need to scrounge up 22 expertise on your gear. Taking 2 points in WM as arms would bring it down to only needing 14 expertise -- but the points simply aren't available. You'd have to ditch juggernaut to even get one point in to it. Each point of WM is worth 4 expertise, while each point of Strength of Arms is worth 2 expertise and 2% strength. It's just not feasible to fit WM in. Thankfully, Blizzard is cramming ridiculous amounts of expertise on the plate gear that they want us to use. For most warriors in Ulduar the struggle will be not overcapping expertise.
Not to mention while you can gear for expertise, you can't gear for 10 rage executes. Being able to execute at 10 rage could make the difference in whether or not you have to waste a GCD waiting on rage.
Yeah, below 20% it adds another option for you to use after a SD execute dumps you to 10 rage, alongside Overpower or a Rend refresh. Remember, as arms the name of the game is 100% GCD usage.
So I haven't been a fury warrior since like 2 months before wrath hit, and I was a total scrub back then...
Can anyone lead me to a site with detailed rotations / gearing for fury?
Also, a build would be nice as well.
The last time i tried to DPS, it was god awful, so really detailed DPS links for fury warriors would be AMAZING.
I am actually geared enough for the easy mode 25 mans, I just don't know what I am doing.
Also, I would appreciate if someone posted pictures of their current bars in all 3 stances as fury.
So, just checked EJ and it seemed really doom and gloom with regards to fury in 3.1.
Should I lrn2arms?
You should definitely have a set ready for it. Fury is somewhere around at the level that arms is at right now on live, and arms is getting a boost to be a good bit higher than where it is now. Assuming you have a decent fury set you shouldn't have to make much changes to make arms work -- just have an axe/polearm ready, and the ability to swap a few pieces to get to 8% hit and 22 expertise. You could, in theory, get the arms expertise requirements down to a mere 14, but there just aren't the points to spare in the tree to pick up weapon mastery.
I'm level forty one.
Just wondering where the endgame is going.
I figured two two-handers would be entertaining enough to keep me away from tanking, but if Fury is going to be sub-par, it's a lot harder to justify.
While leveling, it's likely that the 10% tax will pretty much make TG fury not even worthwhile compared to 1h fury. Don't worry too much about what's going on at 80 until you get to it. Most DPS warriors will probably be switching to arms with the patch. If blizzard comes in with just a few small numbers tweaks, we could see an even split or most people retaining fury.
@Hobbes: This link right here is pretty much the go-to starter guide for fury. Take a read through and digest it. A good amount of the stuff in it will be changing with 3.1, numberwise, but it's still filled to the brim with just about everything you need to know about Fury.
And yeah, I think I'm going to stick with 1h fury up to 60 or so.
Oats on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
well, you can't 2h fury until 60 anyway, so you don't have a lot of choice. I think Dehumanized is saying that even after 60, 1h fury will surpass 2h fury.
Regarding the TG nerf, is there any place for a 1h fury build these days, where you don't take TG? Assuming the 10% nerf remains static.
@Hobbes: This link right here is pretty much the go-to starter guide for fury. Take a read through and digest it. A good amount of the stuff in it will be changing with 3.1, numberwise, but it's still filled to the brim with just about everything you need to know about Fury.
well, you can't 2h fury until 60 anyway, so you don't have a lot of choice. I think Dehumanized is saying that even after 60, 1h fury will surpass 2h fury.
Regarding the TG nerf, is there any place for a 1h fury build these days, where you don't take TG? Assuming the 10% nerf remains static.
There's talk of it on the EJ boards, but not much more than that.
The numbers were putting 1H fury within like 5% of TG fury, but that was before they reverted the HS nerf. And doesn't account for the loss of WM nor the changes to improved berserker stance. The speculation has been that TG will still be better, but there's a chance down the road that 1H fury will outscale it. The trouble is figuring out the inflection point. It's pretty likely that it's not going to happen at all this expansion. The biggest hurdle to it outscaling is a complete lack of ideal weapons to test with, at any rate. You need 1h axes, because the only build that has a chance is something that picks up axe spec. The only options in current content are gladiator weapons, basically.
I find the lack of Fist spec disturbing, seeing how I picked up greed last week.
Considering you can't take anything further than two-handed weapon spec as a fury build, and using one handers in any warrior dps build is retarded, I don't know why that would bother you.
Posts
No, I meant they're nerfing Titan's Grip.
15 resilience is more uncrittablity than the 15 defense, so it lets you dip under defense minimum if needed.
And 20 dodge rating is a tiny amount of dodge...0.3% before diminishing returns. Add in the avoidance from defense, and you're probably sacrificing 0.5% avoidance for a 300 HP boost.
I didn't realize 20 dodge rating only gave .3% dodge, though. Wow.
Though by the time you're at 20% dodge, it is only going to give around 0.3%.
I went from the inscription enchant (52 dodge) to the Hodir one (20 dodge) and lost 0.5% dodge, went from 21% to 20.5%.
So the DR kicks in early on that.
Given that I pug like once a week I personally don't really give a shit what random pug has to say about my gear, though.
You should definitely have a set ready for it. Fury is somewhere around at the level that arms is at right now on live, and arms is getting a boost to be a good bit higher than where it is now. Assuming you have a decent fury set you shouldn't have to make much changes to make arms work -- just have an axe/polearm ready, and the ability to swap a few pieces to get to 8% hit and 22 expertise. You could, in theory, get the arms expertise requirements down to a mere 14, but there just aren't the points to spare in the tree to pick up weapon mastery.
If you're low on expertise, you could swap 2 points into WM from imp Execute, or from Trauma if you have a feral tank.
It's about 5%.
Imp execute is a much bigger part of arms play than it is for fury, mostly because it works with sudden death (effectively adding another 5 rage worth of damage into every SD execute). To cap dodge requires 6.5% dodge reduction, which is 26 expertise. Strength of Arms gives 4 expertise, so as arms you need to scrounge up 22 expertise on your gear. Taking 2 points in WM as arms would bring it down to only needing 14 expertise -- but the points simply aren't available. You'd have to ditch juggernaut to even get one point in to it. Each point of WM is worth 4 expertise, while each point of Strength of Arms is worth 2 expertise and 2% strength. It's just not feasible to fit WM in. Thankfully, Blizzard is cramming ridiculous amounts of expertise on the plate gear that they want us to use. For most warriors in Ulduar the struggle will be not overcapping expertise.
Can anyone lead me to a site with detailed rotations / gearing for fury?
Also, a build would be nice as well.
The last time i tried to DPS, it was god awful, so really detailed DPS links for fury warriors would be AMAZING.
I am actually geared enough for the easy mode 25 mans, I just don't know what I am doing.
Also, I would appreciate if someone posted pictures of their current bars in all 3 stances as fury.
Thanks in advance!
I'm level forty one.
Just wondering where the endgame is going.
I figured two two-handers would be entertaining enough to keep me away from tanking, but if Fury is going to be sub-par, it's a lot harder to justify.
@Hobbes: This link right here is pretty much the go-to starter guide for fury. Take a read through and digest it. A good amount of the stuff in it will be changing with 3.1, numberwise, but it's still filled to the brim with just about everything you need to know about Fury.
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f177/41401-6th-edition-dw-fury-guide.html
And yeah, I think I'm going to stick with 1h fury up to 60 or so.
Regarding the TG nerf, is there any place for a 1h fury build these days, where you don't take TG? Assuming the 10% nerf remains static.
Thanks a ton. I'll give it a look.
There's talk of it on the EJ boards, but not much more than that.
That glee was for the day when 1h fury would outscale TG, and Blizzard would realize what a retarded change this was.
I can't wait for it to come.
Get some two handers for now.
Only after they add two-handed fist weapons.
No, man, that'd be a one-handed fist weapon.