Even without the bonus damage, MS is better than HS because it's an extra weapon hit. Plus you don't poop up your rage gen by using HS when there are better abilities off cooldown.
After he mentioned this I decided to give it a shot, I'll be back with reporting on how wrong I was about it (I keep forgetting heroic strike denies me rage-on-hit).
I'm also not sure about this, since I'm not an expert on Arms rotations, but do they even want to use Heroic Strike? I thought they want to use that rage and empty space for Slam instead.
I thought the same thing as you Henroid, long long ago. Why bother using Mortal Strike and Slam and all those others when the number on Heroic Strike is so much bigger? But like everybody else has said, it's various factors, like MS being instant, or Slam being 1.5 (.5 w/talent) and thus being faster than your usual 3.00+ auto swing, and HS removing your rage-on-hit.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I am not suggesting that I acquire Excel under questionable means, but more wish to know if there is any other programs that would allow me to use these spreadsheets.
I am seeing one problem though, everything looks... weird, and it's not too clear what the hell I need to do. I'm thinking there are some settings that need to be changed for it to work right, would you happen to know which ones?
Unfortunately, openoffice isn't perfect on imitating the excel environment. There might be some info where you got the spreadsheet from (like EJ) on how to fix the spreadsheet, if you're lucky. Good luck.
(Make sure you have macroing and whatnot turned on though. Under security settings?)
Worse though, the excel environment isn't consistent either...as an example, the warlock spreadsheet only worked with one version of Excel for a while...
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Argh... I did give Rawr a try instead but it... well, it's confusing me. It's suggesting upgrades to me when I choose gear slots that would drop me below very important stats. Such as more or less kicking my expertise rating into the ground for instance.
I'm also not sure about this, since I'm not an expert on Arms rotations, but do they even want to use Heroic Strike? I thought they want to use that rage and empty space for Slam instead.
I thought the same thing as you Henroid, long long ago. Why bother using Mortal Strike and Slam and all those others when the number on Heroic Strike is so much bigger? But like everybody else has said, it's various factors, like MS being instant, or Slam being 1.5 (.5 w/talent) and thus being faster than your usual 3.00+ auto swing, and HS removing your rage-on-hit.
Yeah, right away I started noticing the rage on hit thing. And I'm also realizing how shitty heroic strike is. What the fuck is its purpose again? I thought I was growing to love it again and now I just hate it.
That said, I put two points into Strength of Arms and was thinking maybe I should've put them into Improved Slam.
Argh... I did give Rawr a try instead but it... well, it's confusing me. It's suggesting upgrades to me when I choose gear slots that would drop me below very important stats. Such as more or less kicking my expertise rating into the ground for instance.
I am not suggesting that I acquire Excel under questionable means, but more wish to know if there is any other programs that would allow me to use these spreadsheets.
I am seeing one problem though, everything looks... weird, and it's not too clear what the hell I need to do. I'm thinking there are some settings that need to be changed for it to work right, would you happen to know which ones?
Unfortunately, openoffice isn't perfect on imitating the excel environment. There might be some info where you got the spreadsheet from (like EJ) on how to fix the spreadsheet, if you're lucky. Good luck.
(Make sure you have macroing and whatnot turned on though. Under security settings?)
Worse though, the excel environment isn't consistent either...as an example, the warlock spreadsheet only worked with one version of Excel for a while...
Yeah, Landsoul's spreadsheet isn't supported in OO at all. Not sure about the other relevant warrior spreadsheets.
Dehumanized on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Is the attack speed bonus from Bleed Frenzy going to botch my weapon damage abilities any? If not (or not much at all) I want more white swings for rage.
Henroid on
0
Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Haste effects do not affect damage like that. Just the base weapon speed.
Heroic Strike is useful for Arms in raids when you're taking raid damage and have a surfeit of rage. Your normal rotation won't clear out the rage as fast as it is coming in, so adding in heroic strikes when you're nearly full of rage only helps.
Argh... I did give Rawr a try instead but it... well, it's confusing me. It's suggesting upgrades to me when I choose gear slots that would drop me below very important stats. Such as more or less kicking my expertise rating into the ground for instance.
I will not be bottom-paged!
I don't use Rawr, but I've been told that they recently fixed a lot of the problems with it such as the one you mentioned. You also could go to the library and use Excel there.
Arms only uses a single weapon so the chance to miss for HS and a normal attack are the same.
I hear Fury all the time, but I've done Arms before and things went alright. Do you like 2handers or DW?
I'm a fan of 2h.
Arms plays powering up your big weapon skills with talents like 2h weapon specialization, imp slam, and of course the lovely Mortal Strike. Focus on instants like Overpower and Execute really play up the 2h stuff, so Arms is your go-to 2h spec.
Plus you might be able to get the sexy 2h heirloom axe, so you've got a nice weapon to ride up the levels right there.
I would say arms because of the heriloom axe and various items you can get along the way
That axe isn't Unique. =O
Hamurabi on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
well yeah but unless you have a RIDICULOUS number of badges buying two when you could level equally as fast with just one as Arms seems silly unless you REALLY love Fury and HATE Arms
Dhalphir on
0
Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
Why would Flurry ever unsync them since it increases your attack speed and loses a charge after every swing, so you lose 2 charges when they both hit and then the other charge the next time. If you don't have deep wounds then keeping them sync'd is ideal since you gain a flurry charge, but if you have DW and both weapons crit then you lose one crits DW damage and I'm unsure which way is better as you level. It's been a little while since I tested, but you should be able to completely offset the swings by starting your attack when your standing next to the mob, or if you want them sync'd then start when your not in melee range.
Right, I meant that when it becomes available to me. I'll have more than enough badges (shit, I could probably buy it now). Guess I'll just wait until 60 then, heh.
Quick question.
Naxx 25 / Ulduar 10 geared (fury at the time) warrior.
Took part in a 10 man OS+3 burndown this weekend.
I put out 3.6k DPS for the 85 seconds it took us to burn him down.
Then the Ret Pally in our group says "Man, I could remember when Fury Warriors could DPS."
Which of course made me question, what am I doing wrong?
So I went to the training dummies...
As fury I did 1.8k unbuffed over the course of 60 seconds (BS only for buffs).
Wanting to be more beneficial to the raid I dumped a tonne of cash and respec'ed arms (gemming and glyphs suck).
I go back to the training dummies to try again and wind up more or less the same...
I'd toss my armory link up, but I can't access it here at work.
Character: Dominatius
Realm: Feathermoon
Gear is the same for arms as it was for fury with the exception that I was using 2 Ironsouls with Berzerking enchants, and I had to gem for hit cap.
So, I guess my question is... should I stop, drop and re-roll... or was I doing a "decent" amount of damage for my gear?
My fury spec was the cookie cutter fury build with deep wounds and 2 handed weapon spec in arms.
Hey another Feathermoon player, sure are hard to find it seems.
Anyway, are BS and Jewel still the go-to tradeskills for Warriors? I'm mining and nothing right now, if so I may stockpile what I can to powerlevel the 2 and go for it.
Also if anyone can post some commentary on Arms PvP in general (tips, tactics, tricks) I would be ever so thankful.
Axes, then maces, then swords. A good weapon should take priority over a bad one, but if you have any control over the weapon type stay away from swords if at all possible. Gear for STR > AP > CRIT with a generous amount of stam and resilience. Get Tuskar's Vitality to boots. I prefer 40 Stam to bracers over AP, with strength of arms you're gaining more value in stam than you would in AP given their gem-based conversion rates.
I'm a huge fan of glyph of sweeping strikes and I don't think I would PvP without it. Sweeping strikes has a 30 second cooldown and lasts 30 seconds, the glyph makes it free, so you'll basically have it up 100% of the time. You can use it before a fight starts or right before a bladestorm, the extra damage really helps. A warrior's ability to throw out vicious AoE damage is one of their best assets, trying to heal through MS + sweeping strikes + bladestorm is a nightmare. Mortal Strike, Hamstring, Enraged Regeneration, Intervene, and Bladestorm are some other popular glyphs for PvP.
Some warriors really like imp hamstring + glyph of hamstring, some don't. Generally your choices are sudden death (which I like, but might not be for everyone in PvP), improved hamstring, or blood craze. Pick two of the three. I'm a big fan of 3/3 tactical mastery, a good arms warrior will be stance dancing a fair amount.
Make a macro to equip a one-hander and shield. You can shield wall through bursts (if the other team doesn't have a rogue to dismantle it). A warrior in battle with a two hander can die to a well-coordinated 1-2-3 spell burst. A warrior in defensive with shieldwall and spellreflect is almost a non-target. Spell reflecting a polymorph or cyclone can win a match. I use a macro to equip a one-hander and shield and spell reflect to a single key so I can just mash it like mad if I need to SR with a two hander.
The overpower debuff you have against spellcasters is insanely good, rend any spellcaster you fight and try to save an overpower to cut their damage and healing in half. It isn't just for use against healers, your teammates will appreciate you knocking half the damage off an 8k+ chaos bolt.
Intimidating shout is crazy. Use it. Undispellable (physical fear, not magical) that can be used to force a trinket, punish a trinket, or just interrupt a spell.
Your big advantages as a warrior are:
- Mobility (charge, intercept, intervene). Don't forget intervene, if you're being hit hard and need some breathing room, intervene to a healer and run around a corner.
- Scary to spellcasters, particularly in sustained fights. You can overpower their casts, spell reflect their casts, and pummel them as well, not to mention additional interrupts with charge and intercept or intimidating shout.
- Scary as hell if given rage and not locked down. Most teams either try to kill warriors instantly or ignore them as much as possible. Putting a target on a warrior is a big risk, a warrior with 100 rage can charge a healer, pop sweeping strikes, mortal strike, and then bladestorm to beat the snot out of the healer and the unfortunate DPS that gave the warrior all that rage. Cleave + Sweeping Strikes + MS + Whirlwind means that, if your healers can keep you up, you can deal AoE damage like no other class in a sustained manner.
- Mortal Strike (duh)
- Most resistance to fear of any class in WoW (30 second break)
Your weakness is a lack of reliable CC, no way to protect vulnerable healers (aside from hamstring and a brief disarm), and you're very vulnerable to magic burst damage when in your standard two-hander + battle stance setup. You're also worthless without a healer, but that goes without saying.
You've got plenty of powerful cooldowns, don't waste them but don't be afraid to use them. Retaliation is a great way to get melee classes to give you some room, and a recklessness + intercept + mortal strike + bladestorm gives you the ability to deal some scary burst damage. Generally the longer a fight goes the better it is for you, a warrior without cooldowns will knock the hell out of an unstealthed rogue without cooldowns, that same rogue with full cooldowns up can essentially solo the warrior 100-0 without taking a scratch.
Be careful with where you stand, remember that where you fight not only matters for you, but your healer as well. Following a DPS around a corner or into a group forces your healer to do the same. Long fights are almost always your friend, "let's punch each other and get healed and see who wins" is a game you want to play.
Learn to switch targets constantly. Mobility is an asset and using it requires you to pressure more than one player at a time.
If a rogue is attacking you, attack their partner and use AoE. If a rogue is attacking your partner, hit them with bleeds, stuns, disarms, and hamstrings to pull them off.
All of that is incredibly useful. Alot to take in since all of my prior PvP experience is as a hunter.
I'll probably crank away at HoL to get a starting Epic 2H, while building money and other resources (get the TSD if RNG decides to bitch slap me)
For Boot enchants, would Nitro Boosts serve me better? I've found it to be very helpful when some rogue/cat thinks they're gonna lose me since my charge is on CD.
In general, my prof is Engineering, are there specific ways I can use that to my advantage?
All of that is incredibly useful. Alot to take in since all of my prior PvP experience is as a hunter.
I'll probably crank away at HoL to get a starting Epic 2H, while building money and other resources (get the TSD if RNG decides to bitch slap me)
For Boot enchants, would Nitro Boosts serve me better? I've found it to be very helpful when some rogue/cat thinks they're gonna lose me since my charge is on CD.
In general, my prof is Engineering, are there specific ways I can use that to my advantage?
Rockets on your gloves for an extra bit of burst + lightning generator? I don't remember if the glove rockets are on GCD or share a CD with the generator or are even usable in arenas, from my experience most engineers do it for the trinket and not much else. 1.5k damage off the GCD when you need it is a big deal.
Posts
After he mentioned this I decided to give it a shot, I'll be back with reporting on how wrong I was about it (I keep forgetting heroic strike denies me rage-on-hit).
I thought the same thing as you Henroid, long long ago. Why bother using Mortal Strike and Slam and all those others when the number on Heroic Strike is so much bigger? But like everybody else has said, it's various factors, like MS being instant, or Slam being 1.5 (.5 w/talent) and thus being faster than your usual 3.00+ auto swing, and HS removing your rage-on-hit.
Unfortunately, openoffice isn't perfect on imitating the excel environment. There might be some info where you got the spreadsheet from (like EJ) on how to fix the spreadsheet, if you're lucky. Good luck.
(Make sure you have macroing and whatnot turned on though. Under security settings?)
Worse though, the excel environment isn't consistent either...as an example, the warlock spreadsheet only worked with one version of Excel for a while...
Yeah, right away I started noticing the rage on hit thing. And I'm also realizing how shitty heroic strike is. What the fuck is its purpose again? I thought I was growing to love it again and now I just hate it.
That said, I put two points into Strength of Arms and was thinking maybe I should've put them into Improved Slam.
I will not be bottom-paged!
Yeah, Landsoul's spreadsheet isn't supported in OO at all. Not sure about the other relevant warrior spreadsheets.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
I don't use Rawr, but I've been told that they recently fixed a lot of the problems with it such as the one you mentioned. You also could go to the library and use Excel there.
Arms only uses a single weapon so the chance to miss for HS and a normal attack are the same.
it also can't glance.
Most importantly, the numbers are yellow instead of white.
I'm a fan of 2h.
Considering that yellow numbers crit for 120% while white numbers only crit for 100%, yellow numbers are great.
Arms plays powering up your big weapon skills with talents like 2h weapon specialization, imp slam, and of course the lovely Mortal Strike. Focus on instants like Overpower and Execute really play up the 2h stuff, so Arms is your go-to 2h spec.
Plus you might be able to get the sexy 2h heirloom axe, so you've got a nice weapon to ride up the levels right there.
That axe isn't Unique. =O
Edit: Oh, HAI, Dhalphir!
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
Also, yeah, I'm levelling my widdle warrior as Arms... but that doesn't mean DWing Arcanite Reapers any less ridiculous.
What I did notice on saturday is how annoying leveling weapon skill was when I got the TS Destroyer made.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
I have many badges and am thinking of snagging a second reaper for my warrior too and going TG once I hit 40. HMMMM. How absurd is it?
I was under the impression Titan's Grip was a 51 point talent?
Very, since you're 20 levels too early.
Naxx 25 / Ulduar 10 geared (fury at the time) warrior.
Took part in a 10 man OS+3 burndown this weekend.
I put out 3.6k DPS for the 85 seconds it took us to burn him down.
Then the Ret Pally in our group says "Man, I could remember when Fury Warriors could DPS."
Which of course made me question, what am I doing wrong?
So I went to the training dummies...
As fury I did 1.8k unbuffed over the course of 60 seconds (BS only for buffs).
Wanting to be more beneficial to the raid I dumped a tonne of cash and respec'ed arms (gemming and glyphs suck).
I go back to the training dummies to try again and wind up more or less the same...
I'd toss my armory link up, but I can't access it here at work.
Character: Dominatius
Realm: Feathermoon
Gear is the same for arms as it was for fury with the exception that I was using 2 Ironsouls with Berzerking enchants, and I had to gem for hit cap.
So, I guess my question is... should I stop, drop and re-roll... or was I doing a "decent" amount of damage for my gear?
My fury spec was the cookie cutter fury build with deep wounds and 2 handed weapon spec in arms.
Also if anyone can post some commentary on Arms PvP in general (tips, tactics, tricks) I would be ever so thankful.
Anyway, are BS and Jewel still the go-to tradeskills for Warriors? I'm mining and nothing right now, if so I may stockpile what I can to powerlevel the 2 and go for it.
All I can say is I believe that Axes / Polearms are the way to go due to the 5% crit chance and damage?
Not sure about the tactics though, sorry bro
Axes, then maces, then swords. A good weapon should take priority over a bad one, but if you have any control over the weapon type stay away from swords if at all possible. Gear for STR > AP > CRIT with a generous amount of stam and resilience. Get Tuskar's Vitality to boots. I prefer 40 Stam to bracers over AP, with strength of arms you're gaining more value in stam than you would in AP given their gem-based conversion rates.
I'm a huge fan of glyph of sweeping strikes and I don't think I would PvP without it. Sweeping strikes has a 30 second cooldown and lasts 30 seconds, the glyph makes it free, so you'll basically have it up 100% of the time. You can use it before a fight starts or right before a bladestorm, the extra damage really helps. A warrior's ability to throw out vicious AoE damage is one of their best assets, trying to heal through MS + sweeping strikes + bladestorm is a nightmare. Mortal Strike, Hamstring, Enraged Regeneration, Intervene, and Bladestorm are some other popular glyphs for PvP.
Some warriors really like imp hamstring + glyph of hamstring, some don't. Generally your choices are sudden death (which I like, but might not be for everyone in PvP), improved hamstring, or blood craze. Pick two of the three. I'm a big fan of 3/3 tactical mastery, a good arms warrior will be stance dancing a fair amount.
Make a macro to equip a one-hander and shield. You can shield wall through bursts (if the other team doesn't have a rogue to dismantle it). A warrior in battle with a two hander can die to a well-coordinated 1-2-3 spell burst. A warrior in defensive with shieldwall and spellreflect is almost a non-target. Spell reflecting a polymorph or cyclone can win a match. I use a macro to equip a one-hander and shield and spell reflect to a single key so I can just mash it like mad if I need to SR with a two hander.
The overpower debuff you have against spellcasters is insanely good, rend any spellcaster you fight and try to save an overpower to cut their damage and healing in half. It isn't just for use against healers, your teammates will appreciate you knocking half the damage off an 8k+ chaos bolt.
Intimidating shout is crazy. Use it. Undispellable (physical fear, not magical) that can be used to force a trinket, punish a trinket, or just interrupt a spell.
Your big advantages as a warrior are:
- Mobility (charge, intercept, intervene). Don't forget intervene, if you're being hit hard and need some breathing room, intervene to a healer and run around a corner.
- Scary to spellcasters, particularly in sustained fights. You can overpower their casts, spell reflect their casts, and pummel them as well, not to mention additional interrupts with charge and intercept or intimidating shout.
- Scary as hell if given rage and not locked down. Most teams either try to kill warriors instantly or ignore them as much as possible. Putting a target on a warrior is a big risk, a warrior with 100 rage can charge a healer, pop sweeping strikes, mortal strike, and then bladestorm to beat the snot out of the healer and the unfortunate DPS that gave the warrior all that rage. Cleave + Sweeping Strikes + MS + Whirlwind means that, if your healers can keep you up, you can deal AoE damage like no other class in a sustained manner.
- Mortal Strike (duh)
- Most resistance to fear of any class in WoW (30 second break)
Your weakness is a lack of reliable CC, no way to protect vulnerable healers (aside from hamstring and a brief disarm), and you're very vulnerable to magic burst damage when in your standard two-hander + battle stance setup. You're also worthless without a healer, but that goes without saying.
You've got plenty of powerful cooldowns, don't waste them but don't be afraid to use them. Retaliation is a great way to get melee classes to give you some room, and a recklessness + intercept + mortal strike + bladestorm gives you the ability to deal some scary burst damage. Generally the longer a fight goes the better it is for you, a warrior without cooldowns will knock the hell out of an unstealthed rogue without cooldowns, that same rogue with full cooldowns up can essentially solo the warrior 100-0 without taking a scratch.
Be careful with where you stand, remember that where you fight not only matters for you, but your healer as well. Following a DPS around a corner or into a group forces your healer to do the same. Long fights are almost always your friend, "let's punch each other and get healed and see who wins" is a game you want to play.
Learn to switch targets constantly. Mobility is an asset and using it requires you to pressure more than one player at a time.
If a rogue is attacking you, attack their partner and use AoE. If a rogue is attacking your partner, hit them with bleeds, stuns, disarms, and hamstrings to pull them off.
I'll probably crank away at HoL to get a starting Epic 2H, while building money and other resources (get the TSD if RNG decides to bitch slap me)
For Boot enchants, would Nitro Boosts serve me better? I've found it to be very helpful when some rogue/cat thinks they're gonna lose me since my charge is on CD.
In general, my prof is Engineering, are there specific ways I can use that to my advantage?
Rockets on your gloves for an extra bit of burst + lightning generator? I don't remember if the glove rockets are on GCD or share a CD with the generator or are even usable in arenas, from my experience most engineers do it for the trinket and not much else. 1.5k damage off the GCD when you need it is a big deal.