I don't feel like bringing up the WoWhead hunter glyph page right now, but there has to be a better single glyph for BM levelling than Glyph of Arcane Shot. I mean, Glyph of Bestial Wrath doesn't really come into its own until you're raiding, sure, but 20% mana refund on Arcane Shots? Blech.
EDIT: Maybe Viper? I dunno, I'll pull them all up in a bit and make a better-researched recommendation.
Hamurabi on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Glyph of AotV requires level 64.
If you're on a PvP realm, I'd recommend switching to glyph of Bestial Wrath as soon as you hit 40, that way you have it available pretty much always and makes ganking you incredibly difficult.
But there are really no good glyphs for lower levels. Glyph of Arc Shot and if you're Marks, Glyph of Aimed Shot (reduces cooldown by 2 sec), are the only halfway decent ones.
edit: I guess you could go melee hunter and get Glyph of Raptor Strike. But if you're gonna do that, you should watch out because they're gonna find you and lock you up in a mental hospital.
I didn't recall the level requirement on Glyph of AotV. In any event, passive buffs to bolster your Killing Power > reduction in Bestial Wrath cooldown, imho -- I never really used BW (I levelled back before TBW) unless I had to solo an elite or something.
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Mark outdoors? Think not. It's a clear sign for any passing-by Hordie, telling them "this is the mob I'm attacking, feel free to gank me before its health drops too low so I got a Hordie and a mob on me".
Mark outdoors? Think not. It's a clear sign for any passing-by Hordie, telling them "this is the mob I'm attacking, feel free to gank me before its health drops too low so I got a Hordie and a mob on me".
I'm on a PVE realm.
Pistonhonda on Undermine
wusoldjr on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Mark outdoors? Think not. It's a clear sign for any passing-by Hordie, telling them "this is the mob I'm attacking, feel free to gank me before its health drops too low so I got a Hordie and a mob on me".
I'm on a PVE realm.
Pistonhonda on Undermine
Well it's still a waste of mana seeing how things die in couple of seconds.
Disengage cooldown has been lowered from 30 to 25 seconds.
Woot! Hope that makes it into the final release.
Asuma on
"Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
Night Elf Pros: Shadowmeld is more or less the single best PvP racial, regardless of class.
Night Elf Cons: Some people might not like elves, I guess?
Shadowmeld is also really fucking worthless if your main goal is PvE and raiding. As a matter of fact night elves have, by far, the worst raicials for hunter PvE of all races. Yes, even worse than my tauren's warstomp and extra health.
Night Elf Pros: Shadowmeld is more or less the single best PvP racial, regardless of class.
Night Elf Cons: Some people might not like elves, I guess?
Shadowmeld is also really fucking worthless if your main goal is PvE and raiding. As a matter of fact night elves have, by far, the worst raicials for hunter PvE of all races. Yes, even worse than my tauren's warstomp and extra health.
Better base agility than any other race, at least. I would've killed for current shadowmeld back in Sunwell, though, especially on twins. It's still nice if you let your threat get away from you.
Dwarf Pros: They are Dwarves
Dwarf Cons: None, they are fucking dwarves
Night Elf Cons: They aren't Dwarves
Draenei Cons: They are also not Dwarves
I was just questing in Howling Fjord yesterday (pushing for 75 by the end of Children's week, which is now not going to happen because of car trouble keeping me out all night last night), and was doing the quests that reference Big Lebowski, including a dwarf named Donny whose quest was 'out of your element' and a bunch of dwarves laughing at my mechanical scarecrow mech suit, one of whom was named Lebronski, who the quest giver told to go clean the poop off of his rug. Best dwarves EVER.
Also, discovered first hand I am no good at leveling survival. 25 gold later I'm back at BM with my trusty rhino Snuffy.
30 seconds is more than enough time to pull aggro twice, even when misdirecting.
You must run with some of the crappiest tanks ever. If a 30...sorry 25 second 100% aggro drop (Minor Glyph of Feign Death) can't keep you from pulling aggro, you're either over gearing your tank by immense numbers, or said tank fails at life. I'm sorry Shadowmeld is a redundant and unnecessary ability for any hunter worth mentioning, unless they have a tank that takes the short bus.
ExistentialSoundandFury on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
30 seconds is more than enough time to pull aggro twice, even when misdirecting.
You must run with some of the crappiest tanks ever. If a 30...sorry 25 second 100% aggro drop (Minor Glyph of Feign Death) can't keep you from pulling aggro, you're either over gearing your tank by immense numbers, or said tank fails at life. I'm sorry Shadowmeld is a redundant and unnecessary ability for any hunter worth mentioning, unless they have a tank that takes the short bus.
Most tanks are, in fact, terribad. So it's a good racial for PvE, and continues to be one of the best, if not the best, for PvP.
30 seconds is more than enough time to pull aggro twice, even when misdirecting.
With the boost to threat generation in WotLK I can't remember the last time I had aggro issues. Shadowmeld is a really lackluster PvE talent overall. At least warstomp let's you save healers from loose trash mobs or adds once in a while.
Hunters should not pull aggro. You could have the worst tank in the recorded history of MMOs, and you should not have threat problems. The class gets enough flak as it is for being relatively mindless to play at the lower levels of skill, no hunter needs to be accused of not knowing how to Feign.
30 seconds is more than enough time to pull aggro twice, even when misdirecting.
You must run with some of the crappiest tanks ever. If a 30...sorry 25 second 100% aggro drop (Minor Glyph of Feign Death) can't keep you from pulling aggro, you're either over gearing your tank by immense numbers, or said tank fails at life. I'm sorry Shadowmeld is a redundant and unnecessary ability for any hunter worth mentioning, unless they have a tank that takes the short bus.
Most tanks are, in fact, terribad. So it's a good racial for PvE huntards, and continues to be one of the best, if not the best, for PvP.
If you're using shadowmeld as a backup aggro wipe...
Nice to have immobile pvp stealth sometimes. Useful defensively for flags etc, but much more a fan of the Dranei heal + herbalism heal combo.
Asuma on
"Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
30 seconds is more than enough time to pull aggro twice, even when misdirecting.
You must run with some of the crappiest tanks ever. If a 30...sorry 25 second 100% aggro drop (Minor Glyph of Feign Death) can't keep you from pulling aggro, you're either over gearing your tank by immense numbers, or said tank fails at life. I'm sorry Shadowmeld is a redundant and unnecessary ability for any hunter worth mentioning, unless they have a tank that takes the short bus.
Most tanks are, in fact, terribad. So it's a good racial for PvE huntards, and continues to be one of the best, if not the best, for PvP.
If you're using shadowmeld as a backup aggro wipe...
I don't get what you're saying here. "olol that guy is such a noob using all the abilities he's got at his disposal and not just spamming arcane shot like the pro me ololol".
I don't get what you're saying here. "olol that guy is such a noob using all the abilities he's got at his disposal and not just spamming arcane shot like the pro me ololol".
Every other hunter race gets by without shadowmeld. It's a crutch propping up bad habits... lazy hunter aggro backup at best.
So promoting it as a PvE advantage? Bad. Don't do that. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Asuma on
"Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I don't get what you're saying here. "olol that guy is such a noob using all the abilities he's got at his disposal and not just spamming arcane shot like the pro me ololol".
Every other hunter race gets by without shadowmeld. It's a crutch propping up bad habits... lazy hunter aggro backup at best.
So promoting it as a PvE advantage? Bad. Don't do that. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Hey, my Draenei has a heal as a racial ability, but I guess I should never use that because using your racials is terribad for some completely undiscernable reason. Oh hey, mister orc, did you just use your AP increasing racial? You noob you, listen to Pro-Man "spam arcane shot" Asuma's advice! Increasing your AP with a racial is for noobs! Just spam your Arcane Shot all day long and you can be a pro just like him!
If my AP increasing racial was going to cause me to pull aggro in a situation, yes, I would not use it. See how simple that is?
If you want to use it solo, fine. In a group, riding the ragged edge of aggro then relying on both FD and Shadowmeld to save your ass causes mob yo-yo's that make the tank's job more difficult and lead to party wipes. Is that more clear?
Asuma on
"Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
My point was simply that shadowmeld is a very small benefit in the grand scheme of racials. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't use it, all I'm saying is that if Shadowmeld is your deciding factor for Race choice as a Hunter, reconsider. GotN, Gun Mastery, Blood Rage, Frenzy are all by far better PvE racials.
PvP/Solo wise, Shadowmeld is pretty sweet, as are Arcane Torrent(6% mana is nice for PvE but not a huge selling point imo) and Warstomp.
That's my point.
ExistentialSoundandFury on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Again, if the tank didn't suck ass that wouldn't happen.
If your tank sucks that much, then you're not clearing any content important enough for Shadowmeld to matter in the first place. Hell, it's not even a threat dump, basically just works like Ice Block as far as aggro goes.
forty on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Ideally, you'd go with a min-max racial choice based around doing challenging content, though, and I don't think Shadowmeld helps much with that on the hunter PvE front. Now if it's possible that it can save you from dying in some situations where Feign Death can't (is it?), it might be worth the monetary savings to some people.
forty on
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omega71Too old for a title, too ornery to care.Sacramento, CaliRegistered Userregular
Again, if the tank didn't suck ass that wouldn't happen.
This.
I was helping a few friends out with some heroics, they pugged a tank from an old guild all of us were in a long time ago.
All of us were decently geared, myself and my best friends DK being the two better geared in the group. I constantly pulled aggro off of the tank after misdirecting, feigning, and misdirecting again, pet off growl, etc.
It was a learning experience for the tank apparently as he was supposedly just learning to tank instead of DPS on his Pally, but still.
I apologized for pulling aggro and got them the badges they needed, and went on my merry way.
Eh, when I made my hunter, Shadowmeld didn't break when channeling, which was a godsend in places like Stranglethorn when things got particularly hairy.
edit- although I suppose this just reinforces the solo/PvP utility of it. If I'd known I'd be playing this game now, I probably would've made a dwarf.
I feel like a lock trying to manage the SV shot rotations/cooldowns.
Asuma on
"Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
Posts
They scaled it back a bit around Christmas, I believe.
EDIT: Maybe Viper? I dunno, I'll pull them all up in a bit and make a better-researched recommendation.
If you're on a PvP realm, I'd recommend switching to glyph of Bestial Wrath as soon as you hit 40, that way you have it available pretty much always and makes ganking you incredibly difficult.
But there are really no good glyphs for lower levels. Glyph of Arc Shot and if you're Marks, Glyph of Aimed Shot (reduces cooldown by 2 sec), are the only halfway decent ones.
edit: I guess you could go melee hunter and get Glyph of Raptor Strike. But if you're gonna do that, you should watch out because they're gonna find you and lock you up in a mental hospital.
I'm on a PVE realm.
Pistonhonda on Undermine
Well it's still a waste of mana seeing how things die in couple of seconds.
Also lolcarebear
Woot! Hope that makes it into the final release.
I'd be starting a new character alliance side on a PVE server, just curious what the pros and cons of each race choice are now.
Think I'd rather stick with guns though, so was leaning dwarf with mining/engineering.
Draenei Cons: No Shadowmeld.
Dwarf Pros: Stoneform still good, +1% crit with guns.
Dwarf Cons: Gotta stick with guns or you feel llike you're nerfing yourself, no Shadowmeld.
Night Elf Pros: Shadowmeld is more or less the single best PvP racial, regardless of class.
Night Elf Cons: Some people might not like elves, I guess?
Dwarf Cons: None, they are fucking dwarves
Night Elf Cons: They aren't Dwarves
Draenei Cons: They are also not Dwarves
Shadowmeld is also really fucking worthless if your main goal is PvE and raiding. As a matter of fact night elves have, by far, the worst raicials for hunter PvE of all races. Yes, even worse than my tauren's warstomp and extra health.
Better base agility than any other race, at least. I would've killed for current shadowmeld back in Sunwell, though, especially on twins. It's still nice if you let your threat get away from you.
YOU HAVE FEIGN DEATH
The best aggro drop in the game, on a 30 second CD.
Why do hunters these days forget this?
I was just questing in Howling Fjord yesterday (pushing for 75 by the end of Children's week, which is now not going to happen because of car trouble keeping me out all night last night), and was doing the quests that reference Big Lebowski, including a dwarf named Donny whose quest was 'out of your element' and a bunch of dwarves laughing at my mechanical scarecrow mech suit, one of whom was named Lebronski, who the quest giver told to go clean the poop off of his rug. Best dwarves EVER.
Also, discovered first hand I am no good at leveling survival. 25 gold later I'm back at BM with my trusty rhino Snuffy.
You must run with some of the crappiest tanks ever. If a 30...sorry 25 second 100% aggro drop (Minor Glyph of Feign Death) can't keep you from pulling aggro, you're either over gearing your tank by immense numbers, or said tank fails at life. I'm sorry Shadowmeld is a redundant and unnecessary ability for any hunter worth mentioning, unless they have a tank that takes the short bus.
Most tanks are, in fact, terribad. So it's a good racial for PvE, and continues to be one of the best, if not the best, for PvP.
With the boost to threat generation in WotLK I can't remember the last time I had aggro issues. Shadowmeld is a really lackluster PvE talent overall. At least warstomp let's you save healers from loose trash mobs or adds once in a while.
Just stop hitting your buttons for awhile.
If you're using shadowmeld as a backup aggro wipe...
Nice to have immobile pvp stealth sometimes. Useful defensively for flags etc, but much more a fan of the Dranei heal + herbalism heal combo.
I don't get what you're saying here. "olol that guy is such a noob using all the abilities he's got at his disposal and not just spamming arcane shot like the pro me ololol".
Besides, my Hunter is a Draenei.
Every other hunter race gets by without shadowmeld. It's a crutch propping up bad habits... lazy hunter aggro backup at best.
So promoting it as a PvE advantage? Bad. Don't do that. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Hey, my Draenei has a heal as a racial ability, but I guess I should never use that because using your racials is terribad for some completely undiscernable reason. Oh hey, mister orc, did you just use your AP increasing racial? You noob you, listen to Pro-Man "spam arcane shot" Asuma's advice! Increasing your AP with a racial is for noobs! Just spam your Arcane Shot all day long and you can be a pro just like him!
If you want to use it solo, fine. In a group, riding the ragged edge of aggro then relying on both FD and Shadowmeld to save your ass causes mob yo-yo's that make the tank's job more difficult and lead to party wipes. Is that more clear?
PvP/Solo wise, Shadowmeld is pretty sweet, as are Arcane Torrent(6% mana is nice for PvE but not a huge selling point imo) and Warstomp.
That's my point.
Well yeah, I'm not suggesting that these things are happening when fighting Yogg-Saron or nothing.
This.
I was helping a few friends out with some heroics, they pugged a tank from an old guild all of us were in a long time ago.
All of us were decently geared, myself and my best friends DK being the two better geared in the group. I constantly pulled aggro off of the tank after misdirecting, feigning, and misdirecting again, pet off growl, etc.
It was a learning experience for the tank apparently as he was supposedly just learning to tank instead of DPS on his Pally, but still.
I apologized for pulling aggro and got them the badges they needed, and went on my merry way.
edit- although I suppose this just reinforces the solo/PvP utility of it. If I'd known I'd be playing this game now, I probably would've made a dwarf.