there was one thing that really stuck out to me in the hunter Q&A and i thought i'd bring it up for a bit of discussion
Q: Are there any long term plans to possibly removing the need for hunters to rely on a different resource system then mana?
A: I hate to do this to you, but this is a great BlizzCon question. For these Q&As, we’d like to keep the focus on each class’s current status and short-term plans, but at BlizzCon we’ll be happy to go into some more detail on our long-term vision for them.
I feel as though if the answer were "no" they'd have said no, yet this answer gives a "yes" or perhaps a "it's complicated"
Now we currently see five resources (that I recall) - mana, rage, energy, runes, and focus (which, to me, seems to act a lot like energy, although it's not something i've done any deep research into)
So, if they are changing the source, and it's one of these resources, i'm not quite sure what it would be
it could be something like energy, but if it's exactly like energy the shots are going to need to be very cheap. Marksman uses a lot of shots really fast, so energy would need to be regenerating pretty fast to keep up with it. I feel as though runes are sort of like energy in that they're on a timer but are divided into different "forms", and i could see this being possible (Nature, Arcane, and Magic shots, or something like that) but i feel like this would really change everything about how hunters play, and i think it's highly improbable. What do you guys think?
Cunty on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
Well, Hunters were originally supposed to have Focus instead of Mana, but (if I recall correctly) there was some issue of it not regenerating when moving so they had to scrap it.
I saw an interesting idea about it, making the resource a runelike thing but with ammo.
Honestly the idea of changing something at such a fundamental level with one of the classes this far into the game's life seems fucking nuts to me. They'll also need to do something with enhancement shamans as well unless int would still do something for hunters.
It all just seems a little overly drastic. I'd find it more interesting to solve the hunter mana problems and the hunter raid utility problems by giving all the specs replenishment and then giving hunters some extra raidwide mana regen abilities to give us similar utility to shadow mages or paladins putting on judgement of wisdom. I dunno, that's just one idea off the top of my head, there's lots of interesting ways they could go with this issue rather than just ripping out mana entirely.
Int could very easily still serve a function beyond its Int --> AP conversion a la careful aim
Whatever resource system they implement would most likely still scale with Int in some way.
ExistentialSoundandFury on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
They just need to put the "gain 40% of a shots cost when it critically strikes" from deep Survival to first or second tier of the tree, that would go a long way to solving mana problems.
And yeah, give all the specs Replenish. It sucks to spec to Survival for our 10man runs.
I'm sorry, but no, a Priority system is not the same thing as a rotation.
Go back to the BC days where steady shot clipped auto-shots, that was a rotation, it had rhythm and required precision to make it work. Particularly for non-BM hunters as you had to weave your specials between auto-shots.
Now its considerably less tedious, you just work your way down a list of shots that have their own CDs (except SSting which is the obligatory DoT for a dps class).
I use the term "rotation" generically, personally.
As do I. Shit, hardly any specs have a "rotation" in the pure, old-school sense anymore. I think pretty much every spec can now be broken down into "Use X first if it's off cooldown, use Y debuff second if it's fallen off the mob, use Z if something procs."
I don't think it's a stretch to continue to use the term "rotation" when referring to "how do I shot DPS." It's certainly a less grating word than "prioritization."
Edit: Energy and Focus are fundamentally the same resource: pool size doesn't scale up with level/gear; is expended and regenerates quickly (focus and energy abilities generally use 30-40% of the pool but the pool fills in seconds); has talents to make it regenerate faster or gain regeneration based on events (crits, procs). The only real difference between them is that Energy is generally linked to combo points, while Focus is on its own.
Wouldn't it just be energy then, minus the combo points?
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
Well, would it matter? I mean, currently what we have is mana, which is just like mana. There's currently shitloads of mana-based classes anyway, putting Hunters on a different resource system wouldn't be the worst thing.
Well, would it matter? I mean, currently what we have is mana, which is just like mana. There's currently shitloads of mana-based classes anyway, putting Hunters on a different resource system wouldn't be the worst thing.
What's wrong with the current system? I just heard them say changing our power-system wasn't ouf of the question, but who's really struggling with mana in a raid?
I guess having to switch to Viper aspect during a fight hurts the deeps and they have to think about when's the best time to use it and that's too much for some to handle. Their brain asplodes.
/sarcasm
Seriously, I can't see Blizzard changing to a different resource unless some genius comes up with an absolutely brilliant idea. It's not outside the realm of possibility but the amount of work involved in doing so makes it a remote one.
what i do is switch aspect while my shots are down, switch back to dragonhawk to shoot black arrow/explosive, and switch back for 5 seconds or so while spamming a few steady shots, that way it doesn't hurt my dps much
Cunty...ya I do something similar making sure I'm in dragonhawk for black arrow/serpent sting. Explosive shot's damage drops when I switch over to viper even if it's already ticking on the target so I don't bother to fit it in there before.
And my above comment wasn't aimed at anyone here. I've heard a few hunters complain about having to switch to viper because it hurts their spot on the dps meters.
Well, would it matter? I mean, currently what we have is mana, which is just like mana. There's currently shitloads of mana-based classes anyway, putting Hunters on a different resource system wouldn't be the worst thing.
Well, I personally wouldn't care, but you have to imagine the potential shitstorm of completely changing a class' resource system after people have been playing it for over five years, especially when the existing resource is working out pretty well. Mana is "most of the way there" for hunters now, so it doesn't seem like it would take a whole lot to get them in a place like enhancement shamans or ret paladins are in with their mana bars.
If they tweaked focus to regenerate on the run, similar to energy, then I could see it working... they'd need to test it for months on the PTR though.
My point is it wouldn't be similar to energy, it would just be energy with a different name.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
Thing is, and this is just from a purely aesthetic perspective, mana makes more sense for a shaman or paladin, because they're casting spells. A hunter's resource is his ammunition, which makes having mana a bit strange. Focus or Energy would make more sense as at least it would be drawing from a more physical pool of energy rather than a mystical one.
That said, I agree that after this long a resource change would be a bit out of place, but if it's for the greater good and makes the class more enjoyable, so be it.
Which one of you dudes said it would be weird to change the resource system of a class that's been around for years? I agree with that. I've been shooting things in the face and feigning it on to the mages for years through pretty much every major change after Plainsrunning was removed, and that would be so damn hard to get used to.
BM damage seems closer now, but holy shit BM mana seems worse. I dunno if it's just that with the talent changes there's no spare points to put in invigoration or I've gotten used to Survival mana but man, the mana just evaporates with BM now.
what i do is switch aspect while my shots are down, switch back to dragonhawk to shoot black arrow/explosive, and switch back for 5 seconds or so while spamming a few steady shots, that way it doesn't hurt my dps much
I usually do the same, except I wait to switch exactly when I pull a Serpent Sting off that way the damage tics from the sting increases the amount of mana you get back, so you are out of Dragonhawk for less time.
omega71 on
24.24.2.2148
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Picked up Marrowstrike last night, hyoooge upgrade from my Icier Barbed Spear. Was hoping for the new gun drop in the new 5 man as well, but no dice. I just wish we could get some damned bows in the game. If you're a non-raider (which I am on this character), you just don't get to have bows unless you do the Arena matches. Feh.
Halfmex on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Well, it's not like there's an abundance of bows for raiders, either. All the best items tend to be guns or crossbows.
reVerse on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
There just need to be more bows, period. Hopefully Cataclysm's profession will be Woodworking and we'll get to make some epic bows. That would be neat-o.
Halfmex on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Well, you know how that's gonna work out: we get one epic woodcrafted bow at level 90 and that's it.
reVerse on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Probably. At least it'll be something, though. As it is now, we haven't had an end-level, epic BoE bow in...well, ever I think. I don't recall one in Vanilla (I think there's a level 50-odd one that's BoE), none in TBC (the blue level 70 BoE was as close as we got) and zilch in Wrath.
The main problem with vanilla was that bow didn't matter shit. I did some test runs with that Ancient Bone Bow (from stratholme I believe, 58 blue) and a lvl 10 trash item with same firing speed. Normal hits were like only 10% in damage apart, crits was something around 1600 vs 1560. Unless they changed that by a great amount I don't see the need.
So I logged on my hunter to find Ihave to spend both my pets and her talent points
My question is since I have a cat as my main pet would this be any good as a beast mastery spec?
So I logged on my hunter to find Ihave to spend both my pets and her talent points
My question is since I have a cat as my main pet would this be any good as a beast mastery spec?
Get avoidance. No other talent geared towards survivability is in the same league.
So I logged on my hunter to find Ihave to spend both my pets and her talent points
My question is since I have a cat as my main pet would this be any good as a beast mastery spec?
Get avoidance. No other talent geared towards survivability is in the same league.
Indeed. Avoidance is so good that GC admitted Blizzard is thinking about nerfing or removing it (for PvP purposes) and just making pets immune to various environmental AoE damage in PvE to make up for it.
let's say i misdirect onto the tank, and i hit explosive shot, would each tick count as an attack, or is explosive shot one attack
if explosive shot is one attack, wouldn't the best MD shots be, while moving (so no auto attack) explosive, black arrow, serpent sting?
edit: eh, tested, each tick is an "attack", so the best would just to be explosive and aimed
AFAIK, each tick counts as one charge of MD. You have to keep moving while they're ticking, though, because one tick of Explosive Shot > one Auto Shot or application of either Serpent Sting or Black Arrow. You have to give your Explosive Shot time to fully tick and consume the MD charges before you open up in earnest, moving all the while to prevent Auto Shots.
Devilsaurs are the best, but they come at the cost of being fucking huge, an easy target for aoes, and possibly making it hard for your melee to see important things.
Survival hunter in my raids uses a wasp with the minor armor debuff, handy for the physical damage dealers. Added bonus to the hunter that the pet is bugged/large naturally and annoying to everyone else.
Posts
I feel as though if the answer were "no" they'd have said no, yet this answer gives a "yes" or perhaps a "it's complicated"
Now we currently see five resources (that I recall) - mana, rage, energy, runes, and focus (which, to me, seems to act a lot like energy, although it's not something i've done any deep research into)
So, if they are changing the source, and it's one of these resources, i'm not quite sure what it would be
it could be something like energy, but if it's exactly like energy the shots are going to need to be very cheap. Marksman uses a lot of shots really fast, so energy would need to be regenerating pretty fast to keep up with it. I feel as though runes are sort of like energy in that they're on a timer but are divided into different "forms", and i could see this being possible (Nature, Arcane, and Magic shots, or something like that) but i feel like this would really change everything about how hunters play, and i think it's highly improbable. What do you guys think?
Honestly the idea of changing something at such a fundamental level with one of the classes this far into the game's life seems fucking nuts to me. They'll also need to do something with enhancement shamans as well unless int would still do something for hunters.
It all just seems a little overly drastic. I'd find it more interesting to solve the hunter mana problems and the hunter raid utility problems by giving all the specs replenishment and then giving hunters some extra raidwide mana regen abilities to give us similar utility to shadow mages or paladins putting on judgement of wisdom. I dunno, that's just one idea off the top of my head, there's lots of interesting ways they could go with this issue rather than just ripping out mana entirely.
Whatever resource system they implement would most likely still scale with Int in some way.
And yeah, give all the specs Replenish. It sucks to spec to Survival for our 10man runs.
I don't think it's a stretch to continue to use the term "rotation" when referring to "how do I shot DPS." It's certainly a less grating word than "prioritization."
Edit: Energy and Focus are fundamentally the same resource: pool size doesn't scale up with level/gear; is expended and regenerates quickly (focus and energy abilities generally use 30-40% of the pool but the pool fills in seconds); has talents to make it regenerate faster or gain regeneration based on events (crits, procs). The only real difference between them is that Energy is generally linked to combo points, while Focus is on its own.
What's wrong with the current system? I just heard them say changing our power-system wasn't ouf of the question, but who's really struggling with mana in a raid?
/sarcasm
Seriously, I can't see Blizzard changing to a different resource unless some genius comes up with an absolutely brilliant idea. It's not outside the realm of possibility but the amount of work involved in doing so makes it a remote one.
And my above comment wasn't aimed at anyone here. I've heard a few hunters complain about having to switch to viper because it hurts their spot on the dps meters.
Ahh. But you see, I didn't say it would matter, I was just replying to Skeith: My point is it wouldn't be similar to energy, it would just be energy with a different name.
That said, I agree that after this long a resource change would be a bit out of place, but if it's for the greater good and makes the class more enjoyable, so be it.
Well, not sure about the planet, but server at least. Most guilds even forbade pets in instances/raids those days, heh.
I usually do the same, except I wait to switch exactly when I pull a Serpent Sting off that way the damage tics from the sting increases the amount of mana you get back, so you are out of Dragonhawk for less time.
My question is since I have a cat as my main pet would this be any good as a beast mastery spec?
if explosive shot is one attack, wouldn't the best MD shots be, while moving (so no auto attack) explosive, black arrow, serpent sting?
edit: eh, tested, each tick is an "attack", so the best would just to be explosive and aimed
Get avoidance. No other talent geared towards survivability is in the same league.
Indeed. Avoidance is so good that GC admitted Blizzard is thinking about nerfing or removing it (for PvP purposes) and just making pets immune to various environmental AoE damage in PvE to make up for it.
AFAIK, each tick counts as one charge of MD. You have to keep moving while they're ticking, though, because one tick of Explosive Shot > one Auto Shot or application of either Serpent Sting or Black Arrow. You have to give your Explosive Shot time to fully tick and consume the MD charges before you open up in earnest, moving all the while to prevent Auto Shots.