I guess it really depends how involved and how much influence the co-GM has. I just did a quick check to get links to the best mm hunter resources, but apparently Salanei got banned and 16 posts from the MM 3.3.3 raiding guide have been deleted. And since ElitistJerks has a pathetically low amount of MM info aside from the spreadsheet that femaledwarf already uses...yeah, that's the extent of my resources now.
Not that it has to. Rarely will a fight last long enough that it'll drain your mana. Anyway after watching enough beta vids, I'm reasonably satisfied that focus won't be too much of a drag. As long as you have a solid rotation, seems like it'll be easy enough to manage.
I appreciate that silencing shot no longer has damage associated with it. It was pretty lame to just macro it in with every one of my shots and never ever worry about it. I doubt it will even be necessary to put a point in for pve builds now.
Necessary, not likely, but it's still a nice bit of utility to have.
Ken and Voro: I highly encourage you both to check out the forums at http://www.tkasomething.com. The spreadsheet (when it was Cheeky's before he handed it to Shandara for maintenance) and femaledwarf were developed at those forums before they were "publicized" at EJ.
The community there is much more accepting to questions and we get into some pretty extended discussions. There is a wealth of information on the forums there for you to check out.
@Ken, I'd love to see what this guy's Armory page looks like and I'll look you up when I get a chance. In essence, if you're SV don't look at ArP. It's useless for you because it doesn't boost ExS. If you're MM, AGI is still good until you hit a break-even point. It's different for everyone based on gear, but I've mentioned the general guidelines here before:
- drop Arcane from your rotation once you hit ~400 passive ArP
- gem full ArP only if you can hit ~1100+ without food or elixir (you may have to re-enchant for hit or throw in 1-2 hit gems)
The tildes are in there to show it's approximate and should be ultimately tested for each individual. For example, if you're losing a ton of AGI via bonuses to hit 1100, it's not worth the regem.
As you've noticed, there are a lot of people now who are blindly gemming ArP and not realizing there's actually a tradeoff involved. You're also correct on socket bonuses.
I would take the criticism with a grain of salt. A lot of raid leadership has to be a bit harsh when evaluating apps because app activity has been on the rise lately (at least for us) and they need to basically make a snap judgement on how dedicated and serious a given player is regarding contributing to the raid. If the guy is still a dick when you're being trialed, then you know to walk away.
As an officer, I would never take someone to task for gemming for socket bonuses with class appropriate gems.
That officer's being a goose, and I wouldn't want to join his guild.
The only time you REALLY don't want the socket bonus is if a blue socket is involved, and you already have a nightmare tear socketed somewhere on your person.
I appreciate that silencing shot no longer has damage associated with it. It was pretty lame to just macro it in with every one of my shots and never ever worry about it. I doubt it will even be necessary to put a point in for pve builds now.
Necessary, not likely, but it's still a nice bit of utility to have.
Absolutely - it'll probably be like trueshot aura is now, the ability to have it is there, but its kind of useless if there is someone else who can provide it. I've been raiding for a while on my hunter and I can't think of any time I've been responsible for interrupts.
I didn't think of Valithiria because none of the guilds or pugs I've been in have required or even asked me to interrupt anything on that fight. I was historically busy kiting the zombies anyways.
Sometimes you get a bad spawn setup where you've got suppressors and a blazing skeleton out that are a priority for the melee, which is a good time for a ranged class to interrupt an archmage if possible (this is pretty critical on heroic mode).
Of the times I've done it on heroic mode, we just assigned a rogue to stay on any archmages that are up at all times. Different strategies for different guilds, I guess.
Man I have been messing around with a Hunter alt and I have to say the hate for the class is rather funny. I am an old school raider and so I have never had a problem with the class. It was always fun to watch a hunter pet go and pull boss after the rock boss in MC. But I have had to put up with some serious hate in some of my randoms.
For instance I was in a random where no one was going after runners and we had one duck around a corner quicker than my pet and I could kill it. And so party chat looked like "Dude huntard your pet pulled that extra room!" etc. I tried to explain it to the group but they were just going off. They probably would have kicked me if I wasnt doing around half the dmg for the whole damn instance.
Same thing in a Ramps run. We had a mob evade on us for some reason and my pet dashed back to it causing us to pull an extra pack. "Dude why do you let the tank pull!" To this I just ignored them. It was me and 3 DKs.
I remember back in Stratholme runs where all the pugs banned pets. That was funny. Most hunters didn't know they had a stop follow command and eyes of the beast spell or were just too lazy and saw the class as a pure bow ranger.
In MC almost no one used pets at all. It was hard but they were useful! I don't even know if they fixed that bug yet where pets were more likely to get special debuffs from the bosses normally intended for the tank.
Fond memories of ZA and Karazhan where I used my pet as a tank often, like those ethereal dudes in karazhan that used disarm. Used it in BWL mostly to pull the dragons (and absorb that tank debuff that made the boss heal).
Another reason you commonly saw the blanket ban on hunter pets back in the vanilla days was that you'd have some idiots leaving growl on and causing extra grief for the tanks->healers->group.
Another reason you commonly saw the blanket ban on hunter pets back in the vanilla days was that you'd have some idiots leaving growl on and causing extra grief for the tanks->healers->group.
For me its the opposite. I grief myself by forgetting to turn it back on for a few mobs after I get out of the instance. I havent played a hunter since the old school days when you had to go out and tame pets to get your pet ability skill ups and learn them.
Another reason you commonly saw the blanket ban on hunter pets back in the vanilla days was that you'd have some idiots leaving growl on and causing extra grief for the tanks->healers->group.
For me its the opposite. I grief myself by forgetting to turn it back on for a few mobs after I get out of the instance. I havent played a hunter since the old school days when you had to go out and tame pets to get your pet ability skill ups and learn them.
The class has been streamlined alot since then
Yeah, the playability of the class has improved insanely since the dark ages. Cataclysm will add another big bump in the removal of ammo, and I'm pretty hopeful for Focus as well.
Another reason you commonly saw the blanket ban on hunter pets back in the vanilla days was that you'd have some idiots leaving growl on and causing extra grief for the tanks->healers->group.
For me its the opposite. I grief myself by forgetting to turn it back on for a few mobs after I get out of the instance. I havent played a hunter since the old school days when you had to go out and tame pets to get your pet ability skill ups and learn them.
The class has been streamlined alot since then
I'm not sure if you're leveling BM, but I find growl to be pretty useless most of the time. Pets don't seem to be able to hold aggro on their own worth squat to begin with, so it's a gcd/focus that's better spent making the mob dead faster.
Another reason you commonly saw the blanket ban on hunter pets back in the vanilla days was that you'd have some idiots leaving growl on and causing extra grief for the tanks->healers->group.
For me its the opposite. I grief myself by forgetting to turn it back on for a few mobs after I get out of the instance. I havent played a hunter since the old school days when you had to go out and tame pets to get your pet ability skill ups and learn them.
The class has been streamlined alot since then
I'm not sure if you're leveling BM, but I find growl to be pretty useless most of the time. Pets don't seem to be able to hold aggro on their own worth squat to begin with, so it's a gcd/focus that's better spent making the mob dead faster.
That is one thing i noticed in this level up of the hunter. The pet agro seemed to be nerfed pretty bad. I can pull off my tenacity pet pretty easily it seems as well. I find I have to use intimidation alot more as well as FD. I just got to outlands with him last night so im hoping that go for the throat is a nice little boon to both dps and threat. I find myself leaving viper on simply because the decrease in dmg allows me to go full out on a mob and not pull agro.
PS I love my chimera. I specd him pure dps and he holds agro about as good as my devilsaur and that slow is nice for when I do the bg every now and then.
I remember back in Stratholme runs where all the pugs banned pets. That was funny. Most hunters didn't know they had a stop follow command and eyes of the beast spell or were just too lazy and saw the class as a pure bow ranger.
In MC almost no one used pets at all. It was hard but they were useful! I don't even know if they fixed that bug yet where pets were more likely to get special debuffs from the bosses normally intended for the tank.
Fond memories of ZA and Karazhan where I used my pet as a tank often, like those ethereal dudes in karazhan that used disarm. Used it in BWL mostly to pull the dragons (and absorb that tank debuff that made the boss heal).
For us, hunter pets were quite useful in MC. Eyes of the beast -> pull geddon from Garr's room. :P
Of the times I've done it on heroic mode, we just assigned a rogue to stay on any archmages that are up at all times. Different strategies for different guilds, I guess.
It's worth noting, you can chain Distracting Shots on Blazing Skels to delay their casts a bit longer. It takes a bit of coordination, but it's awesome seeing a Skel go down on Heroic without getting even one pulse on the AOE.
Marked for Death revamped - Your Arcane Shot and Chimera Shot have a 50/100% chance to automatically apply your Hunter's Mark ability instantly onto the target.
Well, this talent is officially of marginal use now. I'll admit its nice for target switching, but really, is two talent points worth saving a GCD when switching to another target? Although at least we get hawk eye baked into all of our shots now, I guess.
Anyone else find it bizzare that they deleted Rhumba? Especially citing that the reason it went away is because BM had too many straight DPS talents, preventing people from getting fun or utility talents.
I'm surprised to learn that a talent that summons snakes is not considered fun.
-SPI- on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
They should just make the snakes part of Cobra Shot by default.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera is a bit lackluster replacement, mostly because of the 2 second cooldown on it. And hey, it's the Beast Mastery tree, how about have it affect the pet too a little?
This latest round of changes has me convinced they're just fucking with us now. Camo has been in the works since pre-TBC and they still can't get it right (not that I know what "right" is, but it sounded at least useful before these changes). Rhumba seemed pretty cool, too.
So should I roll a Rogue, Pal, or Shaman?
Mugsley on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Oh man I had to fight the urge to Misdirect to this mouthy mage in my random the other day. I got so close but he ended up leaving the group. Bastard was proclaiming himself master of the group even though I was out damaging him. He just couldnt get it through his head that dps doesnt mean shit if you die all the time from early AOE.
I think I'm more bummed out that soloing old content is going to be more of a hassle now than anything, aoe is less of a big deal in cata so whatever on that front but dammit when I have 12 panthers attacking me or something I can't be waiting on a trap cooldown!
2-3 targets; Use multi-shot
More than that? Use volley.
'course Volley always makes me hate playing a hunter in instances.
Tank pulls 4-5 guys, I send my pet off to /assist the tank, and then volley 2 or 3 times. Repeat until 3 times and then run out of mana and spend a fight doing minimal damage while viper gets me my mana back.
Posts
Who enjoys that
Necessary, not likely, but it's still a nice bit of utility to have.
The community there is much more accepting to questions and we get into some pretty extended discussions. There is a wealth of information on the forums there for you to check out.
@Ken, I'd love to see what this guy's Armory page looks like and I'll look you up when I get a chance. In essence, if you're SV don't look at ArP. It's useless for you because it doesn't boost ExS. If you're MM, AGI is still good until you hit a break-even point. It's different for everyone based on gear, but I've mentioned the general guidelines here before:
- drop Arcane from your rotation once you hit ~400 passive ArP
- gem full ArP only if you can hit ~1100+ without food or elixir (you may have to re-enchant for hit or throw in 1-2 hit gems)
The tildes are in there to show it's approximate and should be ultimately tested for each individual. For example, if you're losing a ton of AGI via bonuses to hit 1100, it's not worth the regem.
As you've noticed, there are a lot of people now who are blindly gemming ArP and not realizing there's actually a tradeoff involved. You're also correct on socket bonuses.
I would take the criticism with a grain of salt. A lot of raid leadership has to be a bit harsh when evaluating apps because app activity has been on the rise lately (at least for us) and they need to basically make a snap judgement on how dedicated and serious a given player is regarding contributing to the raid. If the guy is still a dick when you're being trialed, then you know to walk away.
That officer's being a goose, and I wouldn't want to join his guild.
The only time you REALLY don't want the socket bonus is if a blue socket is involved, and you already have a nightmare tear socketed somewhere on your person.
Absolutely - it'll probably be like trueshot aura is now, the ability to have it is there, but its kind of useless if there is someone else who can provide it. I've been raiding for a while on my hunter and I can't think of any time I've been responsible for interrupts.
Maybe that comes from playing a feral druid a lot and feeling like a total gimp when it comes to interrupts.
For instance I was in a random where no one was going after runners and we had one duck around a corner quicker than my pet and I could kill it. And so party chat looked like "Dude huntard your pet pulled that extra room!" etc. I tried to explain it to the group but they were just going off. They probably would have kicked me if I wasnt doing around half the dmg for the whole damn instance.
Same thing in a Ramps run. We had a mob evade on us for some reason and my pet dashed back to it causing us to pull an extra pack. "Dude why do you let the tank pull!" To this I just ignored them. It was me and 3 DKs.
In MC almost no one used pets at all. It was hard but they were useful! I don't even know if they fixed that bug yet where pets were more likely to get special debuffs from the bosses normally intended for the tank.
Fond memories of ZA and Karazhan where I used my pet as a tank often, like those ethereal dudes in karazhan that used disarm. Used it in BWL mostly to pull the dragons (and absorb that tank debuff that made the boss heal).
For me its the opposite. I grief myself by forgetting to turn it back on for a few mobs after I get out of the instance.
The class has been streamlined alot since then
I'm not sure if you're leveling BM, but I find growl to be pretty useless most of the time. Pets don't seem to be able to hold aggro on their own worth squat to begin with, so it's a gcd/focus that's better spent making the mob dead faster.
That is one thing i noticed in this level up of the hunter. The pet agro seemed to be nerfed pretty bad. I can pull off my tenacity pet pretty easily it seems as well. I find I have to use intimidation alot more as well as FD. I just got to outlands with him last night so im hoping that go for the throat is a nice little boon to both dps and threat. I find myself leaving viper on simply because the decrease in dmg allows me to go full out on a mob and not pull agro.
PS I love my chimera. I specd him pure dps and he holds agro about as good as my devilsaur and that slow is nice for when I do the bg every now and then.
For us, hunter pets were quite useful in MC. Eyes of the beast -> pull geddon from Garr's room. :P
It's worth noting, you can chain Distracting Shots on Blazing Skels to delay their casts a bit longer. It takes a bit of coordination, but it's awesome seeing a Skel go down on Heroic without getting even one pulse on the AOE.
"Shit! People were finding uses for Camouflage! Fix it now!"
Can we get a real skill for level 85 instead now?
Well, this talent is officially of marginal use now. I'll admit its nice for target switching, but really, is two talent points worth saving a GCD when switching to another target? Although at least we get hawk eye baked into all of our shots now, I guess.
I'm surprised to learn that a talent that summons snakes is not considered fun.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera is a bit lackluster replacement, mostly because of the 2 second cooldown on it. And hey, it's the Beast Mastery tree, how about have it affect the pet too a little?
So should I roll a Rogue, Pal, or Shaman?
Volley has been removed from the game.
Does that mean it'll hit more than one target? Because that'd be awesome. I never really liked volley.
Though if they significantly nerf the per-target damage on MS and give it a cast time, that'd suck too.
I'm conflicted :?
Multi-Shot and Volley have always seemed to overlap weirdly anyway.
2-3 targets; Use multi-shot
More than that? Use volley.
'course Volley always makes me hate playing a hunter in instances.
Tank pulls 4-5 guys, I send my pet off to /assist the tank, and then volley 2 or 3 times. Repeat until 3 times and then run out of mana and spend a fight doing minimal damage while viper gets me my mana back.