surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
K so I'm thinking, out of 5 hours I could break it up as follows:
3 hours traditional pencil stuff
2 hours digital
Then split the pencil stuff up into 1 hour "book" study, 1 hour application from reference photos with book on hand, then 1 hour invention (of whatever it is).
Then for the digitals, 1st hour for a tonal study and the second hour for a colour study. If that's obviously not enough time then I'll just do them in alternating days, with 2 hours for each.
So, topic for friday?
Hmmm. Let's do hips/torso/stomach connection, with LEGS. Yay.
Edit: No life drawing for now of people, as the house is deserted but I might certainly try some digital still lives for the colour studies.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Okies, managed about 3 hours before my hand cramped up. Going to split the work load tomorrow into morning and evening to avoid this happening again. Spending the time now to set up the pictures etc I need for tomorrow, and reading through Dynamic Figure Drawing.
Learned quite a few handy things today: that I need to do some gesture studies so I can generate poses, as rough knowledge of anatomy is not that helpful by itself, that I need to use my tablet more so I can actually draw with it and that after a while of staring at them man arses stop looking like arses.
More importantly you need to study the Groupings of the muscles vs the individual muscles. For example The teardrop shape of the quadriceps is very important and its very easy to place them from the anterior view in anatomical pose. As soon as the figure turns that nice teardrop dissapears but its a useful trick. And still thinking of them as a unit is very helpful. The sartorius is a nice division between the adductors and quads so its good you are studying that.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Hogarth lists it as an "interconnection line" that you can run pretty much from the outside of the hip all the way down to the foot. Some of the ideas in his book though seem very specific to his particular style of very "massy" non-directionally lit characters.
Hogarth is good pretty much only for studying the way the muscles mass together. Its too much of his personal style. He kinda blows all the muscles up like balloons.
Eliot goldfinger and Paul Ritcher are propably the best for studying real anatomy. If you can get your hands on Struta Uno its propabl my favorite.
Bridgman is good as well.. its still very much his style but hes a bit more advanced as you have to decipher (which requires some anatomical knowledge) his drawings and generally they arent labeled well. The reason for this is its notes from his lectures compiled by various students. So the books are a little incoherent.
And most of the drawings in the bridgman books look crude because he drew them with a 4 foot pole with a peice of charcoal stuck to the end on a big ass sheet of paper in a lecture hall.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Nies. I quite like "Dynamic Figure Drawing" because it does have a nice coherent explanation for how to begin inventing figures. His order of torso-legs-arms-head seems eminently sensible.
Anyway, here's my first study today. The idea was to first do a line drawing of a photo, then fill in the muscles, then try and do the structure (which I failed at), then try and identify the various points that hogarth insists on (such as curves etc), then do a colour study of it and finish with an analysis of the colour study in terms of which colours were where etc.
I would also appreciate any tips on how to use photoshop to blend edges of colours as well, as it is annoying me :P
And I just realised the pictures are huge, but at least it means you can attempt to decipher my horrible handwriting
you are drawing the teres minor waaay to big.. the reason it is called minor when its next to the major is its fairly small in comparison.
Its also not a muscle that shows up on the surface very often.. The infraspanatus(sp) and teres major are more important.
If you are going to go that far with studying the muscles you might as well get into origin and insertion as well.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
you are drawing the teres minor waaay to big.. the reason it is called minor when its next to the major is its fairly small in comparison.
Thanks, I had my suspicions but there were 3 definite bumps on this guys skin and I wasn't quite sure how to explain them. It might be that I've labelled part of his deltoid in correctly. I shall inwestigate.
I'm like this with the muscles because I've done a few physiology courses so I know the latin names, even if I don't know what the muscles look like exactly! Listening to Bobby Chiu's podcast atm, more stuff coming later.
EDIT: This picture seems pretty good:
Double edit: the general idea is that if I can explain every single variation in outline and surface shade by using anatomy, then theoretically I should be able to do it the other way round eventually as well (use anatomy and construction to construct people with a near photorealistic level of detail). Obviously, it won't quite work at first but it seemed like a useful activity.
Wrong idea with the photorealism shit mate. knowledge of anatomy is good so you can sucessfully turn down some areas and amp up others to call attention or mininimize attention. Photorealism is you draw and paint everything like its the most important thing in the picture. If you look at really good photography.. its got alot in common with a good picture- drawing- painting- A defeinte point of focus etc.. . But I get the feeling you are thinking photorealist in terms of like a snapshot.. and if thats your goal.. just take a picture.
Seriously. Pick up all the books by Robert beverly hale. He has a really good philosphy on drawing and how these studies you are doing feed into it.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Wrong idea with the photorealism shit mate. knowledge of anatomy is good so you can sucessfully turn down some areas and amp up others to call attention or mininimize attention. Photorealism is you draw and paint everything like its the most important thing in the picture. If you look at really good photography.. its got alot in common with a good picture- drawing- painting- A defeinte point of focus etc.. . But I get the feeling you are thinking photorealist in terms of like a snapshot.. and if thats your goal.. just take a picture.
Whoops, seems I mis-stated. I didn't quite mean it like that. I meant that, if necessary, I would be able to represent a human being on paper as though I had a model. Now obviously that's not what being a great artist is about by itself, but it seems to me that even when one is doing highly stylised art, it is often a few carefully placed details that really make the figure spring to life (among other things). I definitely wasn't meaning that I plan on going into painting things that look like photographs! You can just eliminate the photo part and think of it as "realism". I definitely, personally, find quite realistic representations of human beings more interesting than more abstract ones, so that's where I'd be going. That doesn't mean I'm against all forms of abstraction and idealism, just that I don't want to consider them at this stage (as I suspect one's own artistic development supplies those somewhat automatically!)
Robert Beverly Hale
Those books seem great. I just ordered Drawing Lessons from the Great Masters.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
It's annoying to have this confirmed to oneself, but as things stand I have very little colour sense at all. This took much longer than it should, and still looks wrong. Spent about 1 and a half hours on it already, and shall tidy it up tomorrow - going to go onto straight up figure invention now, as this one is beginning to slightly annoy me.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Trapped doing university work, but did some scribbling during downtime.
color is not a sense when it comes to picture making. Laymen call it a sense after an artist has internailized his color knowledge to the point its in his subconcious. As you might guess that means hundreds of hours.
And seriously studying color from photography when you have the option of doing a master copy instead.. nonsense.
Make your way over to art renewal center if you dont wanna spring for a book.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Make your way over to art renewal center if you dont wanna spring for a book.
4 Books should be arriving today GOGGLES FACE
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Been locked up doing late university work, I have anatomy lessons from the GMS and drawing lessons from the GM Right here (along with some extra hogarth books, I dig his clarity if not his actual style). TIEM TO GET MOVING
Those books really are good by the way Ken, you were right. Although he has that oldschool 60s bias going on.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited February 2010
OK. Computer fixed up, motivation back up. Doing some face studies, will post when I can. Any suggestions accepted!
Posts
3 hours traditional pencil stuff
2 hours digital
Then split the pencil stuff up into 1 hour "book" study, 1 hour application from reference photos with book on hand, then 1 hour invention (of whatever it is).
Then for the digitals, 1st hour for a tonal study and the second hour for a colour study. If that's obviously not enough time then I'll just do them in alternating days, with 2 hours for each.
So, topic for friday?
Hmmm. Let's do hips/torso/stomach connection, with LEGS. Yay.
Edit: No life drawing for now of people, as the house is deserted but I might certainly try some digital still lives for the colour studies.
Learned quite a few handy things today: that I need to do some gesture studies so I can generate poses, as rough knowledge of anatomy is not that helpful by itself, that I need to use my tablet more so I can actually draw with it and that after a while of staring at them man arses stop looking like arses.
Eliot goldfinger and Paul Ritcher are propably the best for studying real anatomy. If you can get your hands on Struta Uno its propabl my favorite.
Bridgman is good as well.. its still very much his style but hes a bit more advanced as you have to decipher (which requires some anatomical knowledge) his drawings and generally they arent labeled well. The reason for this is its notes from his lectures compiled by various students. So the books are a little incoherent.
And most of the drawings in the bridgman books look crude because he drew them with a 4 foot pole with a peice of charcoal stuck to the end on a big ass sheet of paper in a lecture hall.
Anyway, here's my first study today. The idea was to first do a line drawing of a photo, then fill in the muscles, then try and do the structure (which I failed at), then try and identify the various points that hogarth insists on (such as curves etc), then do a colour study of it and finish with an analysis of the colour study in terms of which colours were where etc.
I would also appreciate any tips on how to use photoshop to blend edges of colours as well, as it is annoying me :P
And I just realised the pictures are huge, but at least it means you can attempt to decipher my horrible handwriting
Its also not a muscle that shows up on the surface very often.. The infraspanatus(sp) and teres major are more important.
If you are going to go that far with studying the muscles you might as well get into origin and insertion as well.
Thanks, I had my suspicions but there were 3 definite bumps on this guys skin and I wasn't quite sure how to explain them. It might be that I've labelled part of his deltoid in correctly. I shall inwestigate.
I'm like this with the muscles because I've done a few physiology courses so I know the latin names, even if I don't know what the muscles look like exactly! Listening to Bobby Chiu's podcast atm, more stuff coming later.
EDIT: This picture seems pretty good:
Double edit: the general idea is that if I can explain every single variation in outline and surface shade by using anatomy, then theoretically I should be able to do it the other way round eventually as well (use anatomy and construction to construct people with a near photorealistic level of detail). Obviously, it won't quite work at first but it seemed like a useful activity.
Seriously. Pick up all the books by Robert beverly hale. He has a really good philosphy on drawing and how these studies you are doing feed into it.
Whoops, seems I mis-stated. I didn't quite mean it like that. I meant that, if necessary, I would be able to represent a human being on paper as though I had a model. Now obviously that's not what being a great artist is about by itself, but it seems to me that even when one is doing highly stylised art, it is often a few carefully placed details that really make the figure spring to life (among other things). I definitely wasn't meaning that I plan on going into painting things that look like photographs! You can just eliminate the photo part and think of it as "realism". I definitely, personally, find quite realistic representations of human beings more interesting than more abstract ones, so that's where I'd be going. That doesn't mean I'm against all forms of abstraction and idealism, just that I don't want to consider them at this stage (as I suspect one's own artistic development supplies those somewhat automatically!)
Those books seem great. I just ordered Drawing Lessons from the Great Masters.
And seriously studying color from photography when you have the option of doing a master copy instead.. nonsense.
Make your way over to art renewal center if you dont wanna spring for a book.
4 Books should be arriving today GOGGLES FACE
Those books really are good by the way Ken, you were right. Although he has that oldschool 60s bias going on.