Sorry guys but I've been out all day and by permanent item loss I mean upon death. I have no problem at all with the durability bound items of SWG for example that gradually became broken and had to be replaced.
It's up to a developer to balance the risk vs reward in those situations and I've not seen someone handle it well so far.
I also haven't ranted or compared wow to a sandbox game. I've played both sides of the fence on this one and for me I prefer the pick up and play aspect of average mmo's to the time investment and high risk factor offered by the indie sandboxes.
Sorry guys but I've been out all day and by permanent item loss I mean upon death. I have no problem at all with the durability bound items of SWG for example that gradually became broken and had to be replaced.
It's up to a developer to balance the risk vs reward in those situations and I've not seen someone handle it well so far.
I also haven't ranted or compared wow to a sandbox game. I've played both sides of the fence on this one and for me I prefer the pick up and play aspect of average mmo's to the time investment and high risk factor offered by the indie sandboxes.
Ok, but its still a successful sandbox MMO. If they could transfer that level of player economy to JumpGate I would be more then happy to jump on board. I was never a fan of WoW ( quit after maybe 3 weeks ) but it was really friendly to casual players. After playing Eve off and on for nearly two years I could not give it the time it seemed to require. I refuse to pay a monthly fee ( or fees with regard to people with 5 alts ) jsut to have another job.
That's something I can absolutely agree on. I have no problem with a well implemented economy but there needs to be a level of accessability that I'm comfortable with for me to enjoy a game.
But that doesn't mean it hasn't been implemented effectively. I mean, it has a growing customer base, it's wildly profitable, and the people that play it, love it.
Not implemented to your tastes, however? That I understand. It's not to my tastes either (though it's the boring combat that drives me away, not the item-loss-on-death nature).
It's very specific and therefore it is niche. Yes it is succesful compared to many MMO's yet it is targeted to a select or specialized group.
For example an unsuccesful pop band is not niche yet does not have a high number of fans. I don't think you can limit the word to subscription numbers or assume that my comparisons are drawn from wow.
The problem with that number is it includes all those people who have anywhere from 2-10 accounts. Most any capital pilot has at least three active accounts. And the indie guys? Hell I met more then a few with at least 5 because they could fund their time cards with ISK. While incredibly open, I could see the games learning curve making it almost a niche title. And this comes from someone who absolutely loved the game from all angles.
WoW should always be thrown out because it's like getting a 98 when everyone else in the class only got 40s. It completely throws off the curve and any data you are trying to gather.
It said EVE passed the 200.000 sub mark in 2007 already
I would have figured numbers would have hovered around there or gone up considering that more people seem to play the game now compared to 2007
I think there is a difference between that number and the number of "active" subs. As for how many are isk fed instead of cash fed I have no idea. I doubt they could track that until the recent addition of the ingame time cards.
The problem with that number is it includes all those people who have anywhere from 2-10 accounts. Most any capital pilot has at least three active accounts. And the indie guys? Hell I met more then a few with at least 5 because they could fund their time cards with ISK. While incredibly open, I could see the games learning curve making it almost a niche title. And this comes from someone who absolutely loved the game from all angles.
So? Active subscriptions are active subscriptions. Someone, somewhere has to buy the PLEX with real money and then sell it in-game for isk. Each active sub is money for CCP, regardless if it is being used by someone who bought it with real money or in-game currency.
And Eve is not as niche as you think it is. It has crafting, questing, exploration, pve, pvp, and rvr. It also has faction warfare. The only thing "niche" about it, is that it's in space.
In either case, EVE is a game where your avatar is an ugly, asymmetrical spaceship and also a game that somehow manages to make lasers and spacecombat boring.
It is not really something we can look at and say "EVE is the epitome of the sandbox concept and we've reached the ceiling for its potential". The core game of eve is very player unfriendly, because it is drab and dull as hell, not because you have to buy new toys when your old toys broke.
You also don't have an avatar per-se, and can complete many of the day to day functions of the game without even logging in for more than 10 minutes if at all. Both of those things make it niche.
also something something spreadsheets all day blah blah blah
The problem with that number is it includes all those people who have anywhere from 2-10 accounts. Most any capital pilot has at least three active accounts. And the indie guys? Hell I met more then a few with at least 5 because they could fund their time cards with ISK. While incredibly open, I could see the games learning curve making it almost a niche title. And this comes from someone who absolutely loved the game from all angles.
So? Active subscriptions are active subscriptions. Someone, somewhere has to buy the PLEX with real money and then sell it in-game for isk.
Is that the only way ISK enters the game? Exchanged from real money?
If anything, we can take EVE as an example of a very dull and boring game somehow succeeding and making tons of money
My theory is that it does well because it offers players a sandbox environment where players make up the rules, where meta-political aspects mix with player created content and warfare.
Now we just need a game that is fun to play on top of these concepts. I was personally hoping JGE would be it
The problem with that number is it includes all those people who have anywhere from 2-10 accounts. Most any capital pilot has at least three active accounts. And the indie guys? Hell I met more then a few with at least 5 because they could fund their time cards with ISK. While incredibly open, I could see the games learning curve making it almost a niche title. And this comes from someone who absolutely loved the game from all angles.
So? Active subscriptions are active subscriptions. Someone, somewhere has to buy the PLEX with real money and then sell it in-game for isk.
Is that the only way ISK enters the game? Exchanged from real money?
In that case ISK subscriptions can't be counted as full subscriptions.
Bwu? ISK subscriptions are:
A: Guy gets the 300-600 million ISK (I forget how mmuch) in his bank.
B: Guy finds someone selling time cards/plex/whateverthey'recallednow.
C: Guy buys it, gets play time.
The person initially with the plex, had to get the plex by paying money at least somewhere down the line.
In that case ISK subscriptions can't be counted as full subscriptions.
yes they can, and you shouldn't be saying this can't be that when you have no idea what you are talking about.
You can buy a plex in-game with in-game isk.
that plex had to be purchased by someone with real money in real life
every plex or game time card sold was purchased for real money at some point, so there is no difference at all between in-game paid for subs and ones paid by credit card, as the both amount to the exact same thing in the end.
Why the rabid defense? It's very clear to any non-partial observer that they are two very different scenarios and don't really reflect standard subscriber numbers.
The problem with that number is it includes all those people who have anywhere from 2-10 accounts. Most any capital pilot has at least three active accounts. And the indie guys? Hell I met more then a few with at least 5 because they could fund their time cards with ISK. While incredibly open, I could see the games learning curve making it almost a niche title. And this comes from someone who absolutely loved the game from all angles.
So? Active subscriptions are active subscriptions. Someone, somewhere has to buy the PLEX with real money and then sell it in-game for isk.
Is that the only way ISK enters the game? Exchanged from real money?
first, i explained it in the rest of the post you didn't bother to quote, and second, you're the one that is making sweeping statements about how such and such doesn't matter because i didnt understand something that you missed in an eariler post that me and another due have since clarified for you.
to summerize: Eve has around 150k active subscriptions, it doesn't matter at all whther or not they get paid for by the end player with isk because at the start they must have been purchased with real cash. There is no way to generate a plex solely with isk, nor is buying plex for isk the only way to get isk.
Eve has over 225,000 active subscribers. Probably closer to 240k to 245k, according to mmogchart.com, which has been pretty reliable for years. Eve is in no way a niche game. According to: http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html there are only six mmo's above Eve in subscriber numbers and one of them you have to ignore since it's an outlier. An abberation. And that is WoW.
The other MMO's above Eve are Runescape (haha), Dofus (Runescape clone, but with better graphics), Lineage, Lineage II, and FFXI. All of them grindfest mmo's.
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Keep in mind that EvE often has multiple subbers. I had 2 accounts for a while when I played. I heard stories of guys who ran crazy mining rigs with 9 computers. The game sort of encourages that behavior due to A) The immense amount of danger from loosing high tech stuff. The fact you can only skill one toon per acct. at a time. have they changed this? it's been years.
It's not bad really. Even with a low tech rig I could run two accounts on the same computer. I'd minimize my 2nd acct and have him haul stuff about in high sec. He was uncorped so people couldn't declare war on him.
IMO any game that isn't a Star Wars or Fantasy based land crawl is a niche game. Fantasy gets the hype and the numbers and Star Wars fans haven't learned that 99% of new SW content will always suck.
What does this have to do with JGE again? hasn't been mentioned in three pages or so...
Keep in mind that EvE often has multiple subbers. I had 2 accounts for a while when I played. I heard stories of guys who ran crazy mining rigs with 9 computers. The game sort of encourages that behavior due to A) The immense amount of danger from loosing high tech stuff. The fact you can only skill one toon per acct. at a time. have they changed this? it's been years.
It's not bad really. Even with a low tech rig I could run two accounts on the same computer. I'd minimize my 2nd acct and have him haul stuff about in high sec. He was uncorped so people couldn't declare war on him.
IMO any game that isn't a Star Wars or Fantasy based land crawl is a niche game. Fantasy gets the hype and the numbers and Star Wars fans haven't learned that 99% of new SW content will always suck.
What does this have to do with JGE again? hasn't been mentioned in three pages or so...
You can still only skill one toon per account. I apologize, I brought the game up in reference to the player run economy. Which I still find great.
To get back on track a bit, have they talked about what kind of system they will have in place to make it easier for commanders/squad leaders to group and order people? On one hand, keeping it low makes it easier on the individual, but with more options the possibilities increase.
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It's up to a developer to balance the risk vs reward in those situations and I've not seen someone handle it well so far.
I also haven't ranted or compared wow to a sandbox game. I've played both sides of the fence on this one and for me I prefer the pick up and play aspect of average mmo's to the time investment and high risk factor offered by the indie sandboxes.
It's neither in fact as I don't feel a sandbox MMO has be implemented effectively yet.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Wouldnt Eve be considered a sandbox MMO?
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
But that doesn't mean it hasn't been implemented effectively. I mean, it has a growing customer base, it's wildly profitable, and the people that play it, love it.
Not implemented to your tastes, however? That I understand. It's not to my tastes either (though it's the boring combat that drives me away, not the item-loss-on-death nature).
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
For example an unsuccesful pop band is not niche yet does not have a high number of fans. I don't think you can limit the word to subscription numbers or assume that my comparisons are drawn from wow.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
I would have figured numbers would have hovered around there or gone up considering that more people seem to play the game now compared to 2007
I think there is a difference between that number and the number of "active" subs. As for how many are isk fed instead of cash fed I have no idea. I doubt they could track that until the recent addition of the ingame time cards.
And Eve is not as niche as you think it is. It has crafting, questing, exploration, pve, pvp, and rvr. It also has faction warfare. The only thing "niche" about it, is that it's in space.
I may have my numbers wrong. I looked at mmogcharts.com a few days ago, but can't access it at work to look again.
It is not really something we can look at and say "EVE is the epitome of the sandbox concept and we've reached the ceiling for its potential". The core game of eve is very player unfriendly, because it is drab and dull as hell, not because you have to buy new toys when your old toys broke.
also something something spreadsheets all day blah blah blah
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My theory is that it does well because it offers players a sandbox environment where players make up the rules, where meta-political aspects mix with player created content and warfare.
Now we just need a game that is fun to play on top of these concepts. I was personally hoping JGE would be it
no o_O
Bwu? ISK subscriptions are:
A: Guy gets the 300-600 million ISK (I forget how mmuch) in his bank.
B: Guy finds someone selling time cards/plex/whateverthey'recallednow.
C: Guy buys it, gets play time.
The person initially with the plex, had to get the plex by paying money at least somewhere down the line.
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yes they can, and you shouldn't be saying this can't be that when you have no idea what you are talking about.
You can buy a plex in-game with in-game isk.
that plex had to be purchased by someone with real money in real life
every plex or game time card sold was purchased for real money at some point, so there is no difference at all between in-game paid for subs and ones paid by credit card, as the both amount to the exact same thing in the end.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
we don't want an internet argument to erupt now do we
or do we
first, i explained it in the rest of the post you didn't bother to quote, and second, you're the one that is making sweeping statements about how such and such doesn't matter because i didnt understand something that you missed in an eariler post that me and another due have since clarified for you.
to summerize: Eve has around 150k active subscriptions, it doesn't matter at all whther or not they get paid for by the end player with isk because at the start they must have been purchased with real cash. There is no way to generate a plex solely with isk, nor is buying plex for isk the only way to get isk.
i fail to see how pointing that out makes me a dick
what?
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html
Eve has over 225,000 active subscribers. Probably closer to 240k to 245k, according to mmogchart.com, which has been pretty reliable for years. Eve is in no way a niche game. According to: http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html there are only six mmo's above Eve in subscriber numbers and one of them you have to ignore since it's an outlier. An abberation. And that is WoW.
The other MMO's above Eve are Runescape (haha), Dofus (Runescape clone, but with better graphics), Lineage, Lineage II, and FFXI. All of them grindfest mmo's.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
It's not bad really. Even with a low tech rig I could run two accounts on the same computer. I'd minimize my 2nd acct and have him haul stuff about in high sec. He was uncorped so people couldn't declare war on him.
IMO any game that isn't a Star Wars or Fantasy based land crawl is a niche game. Fantasy gets the hype and the numbers and Star Wars fans haven't learned that 99% of new SW content will always suck.
What does this have to do with JGE again? hasn't been mentioned in three pages or so...
You can still only skill one toon per account. I apologize, I brought the game up in reference to the player run economy. Which I still find great.
To get back on track a bit, have they talked about what kind of system they will have in place to make it easier for commanders/squad leaders to group and order people? On one hand, keeping it low makes it easier on the individual, but with more options the possibilities increase.
Are some of you guys in the beta? I didn't know it was going on already.