some mod lock Spex's title to "Knows more about comics than you"
Except that he doesn't. He knows quite a bit, but in these tournaments each fight is a matter of opinion.
Either way, Mary vs. Joker is gonna be really close.
I'd say that it really depends on Mary's mental state as she came into this battle. Joker's insanity is atleast somewhat consistent. Mary's is totally unpredictable. If she came in with the right mindset and the intent to kill the Joker, she'd win, if not, she'd lose. I'd say that Joker would probably win, though. His insanity works for him while Mary's works againt her. Still, it would be a good fight either way.
Also, not related to what posted, but I think Venom(Mac Gargan) isn't getting the credit he deserves. YES, he would lose against the silver samurai in a volcanoe. I'm not doubting that in the slightest. I think the Gargan Venom is a bigger threat than brock as Venom was, though. Gargan's head is alot clearer which allows him to be more strategic, and he has been known to use the suit somewhat unconventionally, to great effect. Read "civil war: choosing sides" for a good example of this. Ya, he still gets owned in this battle, but he's not the chump some people are making him out to be in my opinion...
GoodCitizen on
Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
0
Sars_BoyRest, You Are The Lightning.Registered Userregular
Mandarin cannot beat Iron Man, Doomsday would peel that tin suit right off Iron Man and then eat the chewy center. Doomsday killed Superman, Mandarin would die before he could even think to use one of his rings. Something is real wrong there.
If you think Typhoid Mary is a bad character you've never read a Typhoid Mary story.
Quoted for emphasis
Mary is a VERY deep character. She may not be the most liked character but there is alot of depth to her.
GoodCitizen on
Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.
I agree, half the votes for Joker are "he's crazy in a good way" or "dude it's the Joker."
I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.
Check out my reasoning on the bottom of the last page. I picked joker mostly because Mary's insanity is VERY unpredictable. She could easily just snap into another personality that doesn't have a chance of winning. Joker on the other hand, would be (relatively) focused on killing Mary. Joker's insanity works for him while Mary's works against her...
GoodCitizen on
Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.
I agree, half the votes for Joker are "he's crazy in a good way" or "dude it's the Joker."
I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.
Check out my reasoning on the bottom of the last page. I picked joker mostly because Mary's insanity is VERY unpredictable. She could easily just snap into another personality that doesn't have a chance of winning. Joker on the other hand, would be (relatively) focused on killing Mary. Joker's insanity works for him while Mary's works against her...
See thats a reason, I may disagree with it but that means nothing in the grand scheme. I wasn't picking on anyone in particular and im sorry if you felt singled out.
You actually give some reason with some backing to it. That im ok with, but some reasons people give seem kinda "meh." But then again im biased becasue I think Mary would win. Feel free to tell me to bugger off.
Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.
I agree, half the votes for Joker are "he's crazy in a good way" or "dude it's the Joker."
I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.
Check out my reasoning on the bottom of the last page. I picked joker mostly because Mary's insanity is VERY unpredictable. She could easily just snap into another personality that doesn't have a chance of winning. Joker on the other hand, would be (relatively) focused on killing Mary. Joker's insanity works for him while Mary's works against her...
See thats a reason, I may disagree with it but that means nothing in the grand scheme. I wasn't picking on anyone in particular and im sorry if you felt singled out.
You actually give some reason with some backing to it. That im ok with, but some reasons people give seem kinda "meh." But then again im biased becasue I think Mary would win. Feel free to tell me to bugger off.
I DO think that Mary would win if she could stay stay focused on the fact that she's trying to kill the Joker. Honestly, I think it's almost down to a coin toss in that regard. Power/skill-wise, Mary has him trumped a few times over. My first instinct was that Mary would own him. Then, I started thinking about how her insanity almost always gets in the way.
Want to hear what actually flipped me, since it was so damn close? The way Joker looks. All that face paint is right up Mary's alley. She'd probably do her "Flirt and rub herself all over her enemy before trying to kill him" thing.
Oh, and don't worry about my feelings, I don't have any . Heh, actually, the thought that you might be singling me out never crossed my mind.
GoodCitizen on
Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.
Ok, how about this for a scenario, using only what is on Joker's person, and what can logically be found in an "abandoned" city (assuming anything obviously dangerous or valuable was retained/ looted by those abandoning the area, and that Joker and Mary start far enough away to give some working time/ "stalking room")
Joker, firmly seated in the "crazy, but not stupid" category, is aware that stand-up fights end badly for him, and if a villain catches him on the wrong side of the deathtrap, a trip to Arkham isn't in the cards.
So, first thing, he makes a break for a nearby apartment complex, going up a few floors, and kicking in the door of an abandoned apartment (NOTE: not one with a fire escape, and only one entry door. This will be important later). A quick search though a modern apartment will (9 times out of ten) turn up a hardback book and three glasses. The entry door is then closed, the book placed on the floor inside the door's path, and the glasses stacked into a pyramid. One of Joker's gas grenades is then placed inside the top glass, and the pin pulled, with the glass holding the "spoon" in place, preventing immediate detonation.
We have now created a simple proximity mine.
Next is the bait; we need Mary to -want- to enter the apartment. Simply turning on the light would be effective enough (the only lit apartment in a city block is quite a beacon), but Joker is a showoff at heart, so lets assume he does something odd like turn on any derelict electronics, write lewd messages on the windows with abandoned lipstick, whatever floats his boat and can be done quickly. He then moves to the bathroom, and uses the acid flower to melt the floor, opening a passage to the apartment below (if the flower is not powerful enough to do the job, he grabs a kitchen knife and goes to work).
Now in the lower apartment, Joker unlocks the door and walks out. At this point he can either...
A) Do more mean things to the apartment complex Make a run for it, to either hope for the best or rig more buildings/ cars/ whatever
C) Head over to the building across the way and break into another apartment to watch the show from.
Mary is no fool, but from the descriptions given in this fight, she is not one to shy away from conflict (if I could set s**t on fire with my mind, I wouldn't either), so she will investigate. Her strategic knowledge would tell her that flying around willy-nilly is a bad idea in an urban enviroment (what with modern rocket launchers and all), so foot travel is the way to go, and as there is no fire escape for the apartment (see what I mean?), the inside stairs is the way to go.
Now when she reaches the apartment, there is no knowing what personality will be in charge. So, commence speculation...
1) Personality that has no clue what it is doing: Will timidly open the door, or just run the other direction (no Pro-Mary scenario assumes this personality will be in force, so neither will we. It is mentioned for completeness).
2) "Skilled but not psychotic" personality: Aware of the possibility of a trap, she will slowly open the door, checking for tripwires and sensors (the two most logical vectors for a door-based trap) before making entry. It is at this point that the door hits the book, causing the pyramid to fall, setting off the grenade. Pamf HaHaHa Thud.
3) Bloody Mary: Kicks the door flat off it's hinges in a fit of man-hating homicidal rage triggering the grenade, or flies up to the window and blasts the s**t out of the apartment with no regard for personal safety or tactics, cooking off the grenade in the process. See 2 for final results.
And if the gambit fails, what is the end result for the Joker? He is down one gas grenade and a shot of the acid flower, and is up by whatever else he snagged in the apartments on his way through, as well as valuable knowledge as to the capabilities of his enemy.
I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.
Ok, how about this for a scenario, using only what is on Joker's person, and what can logically be found in an "abandoned" city (assuming anything obviously dangerous or valuable was retained/ looted by those abandoning the area, and that Joker and Mary start far enough away to give some working time/ "stalking room")
Joker, firmly seated in the "crazy, but not stupid" category, is aware that stand-up fights end badly for him, and if a villain catches him on the wrong side of the deathtrap, a trip to Arkham isn't in the cards.
So, first thing, he makes a break for a nearby apartment complex, going up a few floors, and kicking in the door of an abandoned apartment (NOTE: not one with a fire escape, and only one entry door. This will be important later). A quick search though a modern apartment will (9 times out of ten) turn up a hardback book and three glasses. The entry door is then closed, the book placed on the floor inside the door's path, and the glasses stacked into a pyramid. One of Joker's gas grenades is then placed inside the top glass, and the pin pulled, with the glass holding the "spoon" in place, preventing immediate detonation.
We have now created a simple proximity mine.
Next is the bait; we need Mary to -want- to enter the apartment. Simply turning on the light would be effective enough (the only lit apartment in a city block is quite a beacon), but Joker is a showoff at heart, so lets assume he does something odd like turn on any derelict electronics, write lewd messages on the windows with abandoned lipstick, whatever floats his boat and can be done quickly. He then moves to the bathroom, and uses the acid flower to melt the floor, opening a passage to the apartment below (if the flower is not powerful enough to do the job, he grabs a kitchen knife and goes to work).
Now in the lower apartment, Joker unlocks the door and walks out. At this point he can either...
A) Do more mean things to the apartment complex Make a run for it, to either hope for the best or rig more buildings/ cars/ whatever
C) Head over to the building across the way and break into another apartment to watch the show from.
Mary is no fool, but from the descriptions given in this fight, she is not one to shy away from conflict (if I could set s**t on fire with my mind, I wouldn't either), so she will investigate. Her strategic knowledge would tell her that flying around willy-nilly is a bad idea in an urban enviroment (what with modern rocket launchers and all), so foot travel is the way to go, and as there is no fire escape for the apartment (see what I mean?), the inside stairs is the way to go.
Now when she reaches the apartment, there is no knowing what personality will be in charge. So, commence speculation...
1) Personality that has no clue what it is doing: Will timidly open the door, or just run the other direction (no Pro-Mary scenario assumes this personality will be in force, so neither will we. It is mentioned for completeness).
2) "Skilled but not psychotic" personality: Aware of the possibility of a trap, she will slowly open the door, checking for tripwires and sensors (the two most logical vectors for a door-based trap) before making entry. It is at this point that the door hits the book, causing the pyramid to fall, setting off the grenade. Pamf HaHaHa Thud.
3) Bloody Mary: Kicks the door flat off it's hinges in a fit of man-hating homicidal rage triggering the grenade, or flies up to the window and blasts the s**t out of the apartment with no regard for personal safety or tactics, cooking off the grenade in the process. See 2 for final results.
And if the gambit fails, what is the end result for the Joker? He is down one gas grenade and a shot of the acid flower, and is up by whatever else he snagged in the apartments on his way through, as well as valuable knowledge as to the capabilities of his enemy.
...Man. The match is over, Joker lost. Wow, that was a very detailed explanation but.....it seems futile.
While this scenario has a nice straightforward effectiveness, if "Mary sees Joker" translates into "Mary sees Joker by the light of his muzzle flash", than Mary does not win by default. Each party has a weapon that translates into "instant win" if they get the drop on the other; Mary can light the Joker on fire, Joker can blast the back of Mary's crazy little head in. And as for the whole "speed of thought" argument, human reaction time has nothing on a flying bullet fired anywhere within a pistol's effective range. If the gun goes off first, and the Joker doesn't bork the job (a fair assumption, as we are assuming Mary doesn't have the "weak" personality behind the wheel), Mary loses.
And yes, I know the fight is over and this changes nothing, but it still should be said.
I hate all the "how would he do it" crap...I gave an example and everyone ignored it...because they didn't want a real answer. As for the tk shield crap, if it holds back gasses (which joker would use) it holds back oxygen and she passes out. If she is powerful enough to pick and choose on a molecular level what can get through and what doesn't...well, why the hell is she a DD villain then? She soulds a lot closer to a cosmic entity the way you guys tout her.
Monkeydrye on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2006
This rock won't bleed!
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
It was her most recent appearance, though, and we're meant to use the most recent incarnations of characters in these battles unless otherwise stated.
That makes no sense. Just because she did it in her most recent appearance doesn't mean it wasn't special.
No but it also means that it is just as possible as her toying with him. It's a 50/50 chance she will either toy with Joker or burn him the instant she lays eyes on him. My guess is, that in a fight like this where she knows the other fighter is out to kill her not just catch her and put her in jail would push her towards the burn on sight move.
Ok, so she burned DD last appearence. To the best of my Knowledge DD is still ALIVE, not charred ashes. Lighting a fire, and killing someone right away are two different things. Even IF Joker let her get a bead on her and she lit him up, what is to stop him from running around, screaming, rolling in agony till he got close enough to gas, acid, volt her?
And yeah, she has a TK thing..she COULD do something...but would she? Or lik emost villians, would she sit their, gloating?
Posts
Nothing I have said here contradicts this.
Except that he doesn't. He knows quite a bit, but in these tournaments each fight is a matter of opinion.
Either way, Mary vs. Joker is gonna be really close.
I'd say that it really depends on Mary's mental state as she came into this battle. Joker's insanity is atleast somewhat consistent. Mary's is totally unpredictable. If she came in with the right mindset and the intent to kill the Joker, she'd win, if not, she'd lose. I'd say that Joker would probably win, though. His insanity works for him while Mary's works againt her. Still, it would be a good fight either way.
Also, not related to what posted, but I think Venom(Mac Gargan) isn't getting the credit he deserves. YES, he would lose against the silver samurai in a volcanoe. I'm not doubting that in the slightest. I think the Gargan Venom is a bigger threat than brock as Venom was, though. Gargan's head is alot clearer which allows him to be more strategic, and he has been known to use the suit somewhat unconventionally, to great effect. Read "civil war: choosing sides" for a good example of this. Ya, he still gets owned in this battle, but he's not the chump some people are making him out to be in my opinion...
Joker sucks in a fight. I hate how he is getting votes just because he fights Batman, and is in cartoons.
Mandarin cannot beat Iron Man, Doomsday would peel that tin suit right off Iron Man and then eat the chewy center. Doomsday killed Superman, Mandarin would die before he could even think to use one of his rings. Something is real wrong there.
Also, mind control.
Then why the hell are Typhoid Mary and Silver Samurai winning?
I agree, half the votes for Joker are "he's crazy in a good way" or "dude it's the Joker."
I don't care if people vote for him, opinions will differ in this tourney. But at least back it up with something.
Mary is a VERY deep character. She may not be the most liked character but there is alot of depth to her.
Check out my reasoning on the bottom of the last page. I picked joker mostly because Mary's insanity is VERY unpredictable. She could easily just snap into another personality that doesn't have a chance of winning. Joker on the other hand, would be (relatively) focused on killing Mary. Joker's insanity works for him while Mary's works against her...
See thats a reason, I may disagree with it but that means nothing in the grand scheme. I wasn't picking on anyone in particular and im sorry if you felt singled out.
You actually give some reason with some backing to it. That im ok with, but some reasons people give seem kinda "meh." But then again im biased becasue I think Mary would win. Feel free to tell me to bugger off.
I DO think that Mary would win if she could stay stay focused on the fact that she's trying to kill the Joker. Honestly, I think it's almost down to a coin toss in that regard. Power/skill-wise, Mary has him trumped a few times over. My first instinct was that Mary would own him. Then, I started thinking about how her insanity almost always gets in the way.
Want to hear what actually flipped me, since it was so damn close? The way Joker looks. All that face paint is right up Mary's alley. She'd probably do her "Flirt and rub herself all over her enemy before trying to kill him" thing.
Oh, and don't worry about my feelings, I don't have any
Ok, how about this for a scenario, using only what is on Joker's person, and what can logically be found in an "abandoned" city (assuming anything obviously dangerous or valuable was retained/ looted by those abandoning the area, and that Joker and Mary start far enough away to give some working time/ "stalking room")
Joker, firmly seated in the "crazy, but not stupid" category, is aware that stand-up fights end badly for him, and if a villain catches him on the wrong side of the deathtrap, a trip to Arkham isn't in the cards.
So, first thing, he makes a break for a nearby apartment complex, going up a few floors, and kicking in the door of an abandoned apartment (NOTE: not one with a fire escape, and only one entry door. This will be important later). A quick search though a modern apartment will (9 times out of ten) turn up a hardback book and three glasses. The entry door is then closed, the book placed on the floor inside the door's path, and the glasses stacked into a pyramid. One of Joker's gas grenades is then placed inside the top glass, and the pin pulled, with the glass holding the "spoon" in place, preventing immediate detonation.
We have now created a simple proximity mine.
Next is the bait; we need Mary to -want- to enter the apartment. Simply turning on the light would be effective enough (the only lit apartment in a city block is quite a beacon), but Joker is a showoff at heart, so lets assume he does something odd like turn on any derelict electronics, write lewd messages on the windows with abandoned lipstick, whatever floats his boat and can be done quickly. He then moves to the bathroom, and uses the acid flower to melt the floor, opening a passage to the apartment below (if the flower is not powerful enough to do the job, he grabs a kitchen knife and goes to work).
Now in the lower apartment, Joker unlocks the door and walks out. At this point he can either...
A) Do more mean things to the apartment complex
C) Head over to the building across the way and break into another apartment to watch the show from.
Mary is no fool, but from the descriptions given in this fight, she is not one to shy away from conflict (if I could set s**t on fire with my mind, I wouldn't either), so she will investigate. Her strategic knowledge would tell her that flying around willy-nilly is a bad idea in an urban enviroment (what with modern rocket launchers and all), so foot travel is the way to go, and as there is no fire escape for the apartment (see what I mean?), the inside stairs is the way to go.
Now when she reaches the apartment, there is no knowing what personality will be in charge. So, commence speculation...
1) Personality that has no clue what it is doing: Will timidly open the door, or just run the other direction (no Pro-Mary scenario assumes this personality will be in force, so neither will we. It is mentioned for completeness).
2) "Skilled but not psychotic" personality: Aware of the possibility of a trap, she will slowly open the door, checking for tripwires and sensors (the two most logical vectors for a door-based trap) before making entry. It is at this point that the door hits the book, causing the pyramid to fall, setting off the grenade. Pamf HaHaHa Thud.
3) Bloody Mary: Kicks the door flat off it's hinges in a fit of man-hating homicidal rage triggering the grenade, or flies up to the window and blasts the s**t out of the apartment with no regard for personal safety or tactics, cooking off the grenade in the process. See 2 for final results.
And if the gambit fails, what is the end result for the Joker? He is down one gas grenade and a shot of the acid flower, and is up by whatever else he snagged in the apartments on his way through, as well as valuable knowledge as to the capabilities of his enemy.
I know. Came in late, but still felt the urge to pull for him. Besides, elaborate schemes are fun.
Definetly a good try, more thought into the fight than we've seen.
Mary sees Joker
Joker bursts into flames and dies a fiery death
the end
While this scenario has a nice straightforward effectiveness, if "Mary sees Joker" translates into "Mary sees Joker by the light of his muzzle flash", than Mary does not win by default. Each party has a weapon that translates into "instant win" if they get the drop on the other; Mary can light the Joker on fire, Joker can blast the back of Mary's crazy little head in. And as for the whole "speed of thought" argument, human reaction time has nothing on a flying bullet fired anywhere within a pistol's effective range. If the gun goes off first, and the Joker doesn't bork the job (a fair assumption, as we are assuming Mary doesn't have the "weak" personality behind the wheel), Mary loses.
And yes, I know the fight is over and this changes nothing, but it still should be said.
Except Mary likes to play with her prey, and doesn't tend to immediately set fire to someone even when she's fighting them.
That would be the best comic ever.
"No daredevil you're fine she always plays with her victims first."
"Alright."
fight starts
"OH MY GOD WHY AM I ON FIRE"
Did I say she never does this? I say it's uncommon for her to do this. Which I'm pretty sure it is. The odds of this happening were slim.
That makes no sense. Just because she did it in her most recent appearance doesn't mean it wasn't special.
...
...
...
...bitch is crazy. aka NOTHING is indicative of her current mental state.
No but it also means that it is just as possible as her toying with him. It's a 50/50 chance she will either toy with Joker or burn him the instant she lays eyes on him. My guess is, that in a fight like this where she knows the other fighter is out to kill her not just catch her and put her in jail would push her towards the burn on sight move.
Either way, the fight's over.
And yeah, she has a TK thing..she COULD do something...but would she? Or lik emost villians, would she sit their, gloating?