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Interpretation, Plausible Denial and racially loaded imagery (NYPost cartoon)

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Posts

  • docturknowlesdocturknowles Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Doc wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Couscous, please stop trying to argue with the things I'm not saying long enough to actually read my posts.

    Pot to kettle, come in kettle!

    Nobody here has suggested that he be censored by a government agency. That would be the only way that it is a violation of freedom of speech. That's why I don't understand why you keep fucking bringing it up.

    You probably shouldn't bring up the pot vs. kettle argument in a discussion about racism... :P

    docturknowles on
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Wait, so this isn't a play off the "1000 monkeys with a typewriter" thing?

    EDIT: Now i see that's been addressed... I definitely did not initially and immediately think "RACISM!"

    wazilla on
    Psn:wazukki
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Doc wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Couscous, please stop trying to argue with the things I'm not saying long enough to actually read my posts.

    Pot to kettle, come in kettle!

    Nobody here has suggested that he be censored by a government agency. That would be the only way that it is a violation of freedom of speech. That's why I don't understand why you keep fucking bringing it up.

    You probably shouldn't bring up the pot vs. kettle argument in a discussion about racism... :P

    hehe, it's like that guy who got pissed about the term "black hole."

    Doc on
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Couscous, please stop trying to argue with the things I'm not saying long enough to actually read my posts.

    The only way your posts make sense is if you think the people who think it is racist are trying to make what he is doing illegal, dumbass.

    I'm sorry that you're having trouble with reading comprehension, but that's really no reason to resort to name calling.



    The New York Post is a disreputable piece of garbage that THRIVES on the type of press that they get off of an event like this. The people who are crying out over this cartoon aren't their demographic to begin with, so they have no incentive to do anything. In addition, this whole thing is just getting them more press coverage, which will allow more of the bigots out there to discover them, and potentially even increase their circulation a bit.

    I'm not going to accuse the Post of pulling this as a publicity stunt, because I think that would be giving them too much credit for their intelligence, but the fact is, the cartoon can be rationalized away in MULTIPLE arguments that have nothing at all to do with racism (cop shoots monkey story, monkeys with typewriters, a monkey would do a better job in government, etc.) so the Post has plenty that they can hide behind for as long as people are yelling about this, and once people move on to the next thing, folks out there of like-mind to the Post will now be that much more aware of its existence.

    Evander on
  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I think it's kind of a stretch to call this racist, but I think it's kind of a stretch to find the 'intended' joke as well.

    So, I call it a tossup.

    SageinaRage on
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Couscous, please stop trying to argue with the things I'm not saying long enough to actually read my posts.

    The only way your posts make sense is if you think the people who think it is racist are trying to make what he is doing illegal, dumbass.

    I'm sorry that you're having trouble with reading comprehension, but that's really no reason to resort to name calling.



    The New York Post is a disreputable piece of garbage that THRIVES on the type of press that they get off of an event like this. The people who are crying out over this cartoon aren't their demographic to begin with, so they have no incentive to do anything. In addition, this whole thing is just getting them more press coverage, which will allow more of the bigots out there to discover them, and potentially even increase their circulation a bit.

    I'm not going to accuse the Post of pulling this as a publicity stunt, because I think that would be giving them too much credit for their intelligence, but the fact is, the cartoon can be rationalized away in MULTIPLE arguments that have nothing at all to do with racism (cop shoots monkey story, monkeys with typewriters, a monkey would do a better job in government, etc.) so the Post has plenty that they can hide behind for as long as people are yelling about this, and once people move on to the next thing, folks out there of like-mind to the Post will now be that much more aware of its existence.

    We read that part, everyone understands it. Now explain why you keep writing about how we need to acknowledge the Post's freedom of speech when nobody thinks that the government should censor them.

    Doc on
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I think it's kind of a stretch to call this racist, but I think it's kind of a stretch to find the 'intended' joke as well.

    So, I call it a tossup.

    Yeah, from skimming the thread I gather this is just another failure of a comic in a long line of failure.

    wazilla on
    Psn:wazukki
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    PantsB on
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    day9gosu.png
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  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    I like that there's a barometer for whether something is racist enough. If it's not high enough on the racist-ometer, you should just shut up and let it be, because really the problem is with people being offended by the racism, not the racism itself.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    Because independent of the author there are many better explanations than racism.

    wazilla on
    Psn:wazukki
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.

    moniker on
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.
    :?:
    Did you see the comic?
    wazilla wrote: »
    Because independent of the author there are many better explanations than racism.

    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    PantsB on
    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • docturknowlesdocturknowles Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.

    Yeah! A chimpanzee is technically an APE!

    Rule of thumb: tail = monkey | no tail = ape

    docturknowles on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.
    :?:
    Did you see the comic?

    I did. Now go take a zoology course.

    moniker on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    I will say I hate when people call racism on something that could be easily explained as something else (as in this case). Fact is, there's really no way to defend yourself against being called a racist. Further denying it tends to solidify the content in the accusers' minds...

    I mean, it could have been meant to be racist, but I highly doubt it. I really think it was "this stimulus bill is fucking stupid, so only a monkey could have written it!"

    As I've said before, I didn't view the cartoon as being racial, initially. I only viewed it as being stupid.

    HOWEVER, the cartoonist should have been aware of the symbolism that he was using, which leaves us with three options:

    1) the guy s a complete idiot who doesn't think his cartoons through before submitting/publishing them.

    2) the guy actually IS a racist, and intended there to be some level of "Obama is a monkey" statement in the cartoon

    3) the guy did not intend the racial overtones when he first drafted/wrote the comic, but when he realized that it could be viewed in that manner, he decided that he didn't care if it was.

    4) It is only racist to those looking for something to paint as racist.

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited February 2009
    Guys, did you hear about the first amendment? They told me something about it in middle school, and I think it's neat!

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • Richard_DastardlyRichard_Dastardly Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    I will say I hate when people call racism on something that could be easily explained as something else (as in this case). Fact is, there's really no way to defend yourself against being called a racist. Further denying it tends to solidify the content in the accusers' minds...

    I mean, it could have been meant to be racist, but I highly doubt it. I really think it was "this stimulus bill is fucking stupid, so only a monkey could have written it!"

    As I've said before, I didn't view the cartoon as being racial, initially. I only viewed it as being stupid.

    HOWEVER, the cartoonist should have been aware of the symbolism that he was using, which leaves us with three options:

    1) the guy s a complete idiot who doesn't think his cartoons through before submitting/publishing them.

    2) the guy actually IS a racist, and intended there to be some level of "Obama is a monkey" statement in the cartoon

    3) the guy did not intend the racial overtones when he first drafted/wrote the comic, but when he realized that it could be viewed in that manner, he decided that he didn't care if it was.

    4) It is only racist to those looking for something to paint as racist.

    Right, it's not as if the cop is saying, "Welp, looks like JOE BIDEN is gonna be our new president."

    The cartoon is in poor taste, but it's about as racist as that one Don Imus blurting out "nappy headed hos."

    Richard_Dastardly on
    ಠ_ರೃ wrote: »
    cats are douches
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    wazilla wrote: »
    Because independent of the author there are many better explanations than racism.

    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    There is absolutely no evidence in the comic that would lead me to make the assumption that the author intended for the chimp to represent Obama. Notice the marked difference between this situation and the Curious George Obama monkeys.

    wazilla on
    Psn:wazukki
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    He is suggesting that just because there is an elaborate explanation doesn't justify the more straightforward racist connotations of a situation.

    Doc on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Everyone is yelling about whether or not this is a racist comic, but ignoring the fact that, even if it is, it is still freedom of speech/freedom of the press.

    Actually, no one is ignoring this at all. I'm all for free speech. Doesn't mean he shouldn't get run through the wringer for being stupid and possibly racist with his free speech. No one has freedom from the consequences of free speech.

    Moniker: the cartoonist basically implied that the murdered chimp was the author of the stimulus bill.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    moniker wrote: »

    I did. Now go take a zoology course.
    LOL very relevant to this discussion.
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    Yeah and the Curious George guy said it wasn't racial. Did you believe him?

    PantsB on
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Elki wrote: »
    Guys, did you hear about the first amendment? They told me something about it in middle school, and I think it's neat!

    The NY Post has constitutional rights. How dare this thread demand we quarter soldiers in its office building.

    moniker on
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Doc wrote: »
    Now explain why you keep writing about how we need to acknowledge the Post's freedom of speech when nobody thinks that the government should censor them.

    I'm pretty sure that I don't "keep" doing anything.

    I left that behind when folks explained that they were calling for market forces, not governmental forces, to do something, and moved on to discussing the fact that the Post's particular market is not likely to be upset over the cartoon.

    Evander on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Doc wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    He is suggesting that just because there is an elaborate explanation doesn't justify the more straightforward racist connotations of a situation.

    To me the racist connotations is the elaborate explanation.

    The straightforward answer for me is a chimp went balls out nuts and needed to be shot and Republicans think the stimulus bill is also balls out nuts.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »

    I did. Now go take a zoology course.
    LOL very relevant to this discussion.
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    Yeah and the Curious George guy said it wasn't racial. Did you believe him?

    Did Curious George go on a rampage during the campaign? No? Then no.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • lazegamerlazegamer Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.

    Yeah! A chimpanzee is technically an APE!

    Rule of thumb: tail = monkey | no tail = ape

    This is bordering on snark, so don't take me too seriously, but some people consider the phrase the rule of thumb to be sexist because there is (dubious) evidence that it originated with a law that said a man may beat his wife with a stick no thicker than the width of his thumb. Accidental racism, meet accidental sexism? :)

    lazegamer on
    Surprise.
    - Spy
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    I will say I hate when people call racism on something that could be easily explained as something else (as in this case). Fact is, there's really no way to defend yourself against being called a racist. Further denying it tends to solidify the content in the accusers' minds...

    I mean, it could have been meant to be racist, but I highly doubt it. I really think it was "this stimulus bill is fucking stupid, so only a monkey could have written it!"

    As I've said before, I didn't view the cartoon as being racial, initially. I only viewed it as being stupid.

    HOWEVER, the cartoonist should have been aware of the symbolism that he was using, which leaves us with three options:

    1) the guy s a complete idiot who doesn't think his cartoons through before submitting/publishing them.

    2) the guy actually IS a racist, and intended there to be some level of "Obama is a monkey" statement in the cartoon

    3) the guy did not intend the racial overtones when he first drafted/wrote the comic, but when he realized that it could be viewed in that manner, he decided that he didn't care if it was.

    4) It is only racist to those looking for something to paint as racist.

    5) If you can't see how this may be construed as racist, you need some history lessons on racist imagery in the United States.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »

    I did. Now go take a zoology course.
    LOL very relevant to this discussion.
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    Yeah and the Curious George guy said it wasn't racial. Did you believe him?

    Did Curious George go on a rampage during the campaign? No? Then no.

    So if Curious George had been in the news at the time, it would have totally been cool right?

    edit
    lazegamer wrote: »
    This is bordering on snark, so don't take me too seriously, but some people consider the phrase the rule of thumb to be sexist because there is (dubious) evidence that it originated with a law that said a man may beat his wife with a stick no thicker than the width of his thumb. Accidental racism, meet accidental sexism? :)

    Wicked OT, but that's actually a myth

    PantsB on
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  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.
    :?:
    Did you see the comic?
    wazilla wrote: »
    Because independent of the author there are many better explanations than racism.

    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    I guess George W. Bush is also black?

    http://www.bushorchimp.com/

    Sometimes a monkey is just a monkey.



    I'm not saying that there is zero chance that the comic was intended to be racist, mind you. I just think the insistence of "any time a monkey is used it MUST be racist" is absurd.

    Monkeys can symbolize multiple things.

    Evander on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Now explain why you keep writing about how we need to acknowledge the Post's freedom of speech when nobody thinks that the government should censor them.

    I'm pretty sure that I don't "keep" doing anything.

    I left that behind when folks explained that they were calling for market forces, not governmental forces, to do something, and moved on to discussing the fact that the Post's particular market is not likely to be upset over the cartoon.

    Eh, screw those guys, its the advertisers who are the ultimate targets of protests. Most companies aren't too eager to be associated with controversy, particularly racial controversy.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Kagera wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    He is suggesting that just because there is an elaborate explanation doesn't justify the more straightforward racist connotations of a situation.

    To me the racist connotations is the elaborate explanation.

    The straightforward answer for me is a chimp went balls out nuts and needed to be shot and Republicans think the stimulus bill is also balls out nuts.

    Or "so stupid a chimp could have written it." There are actually quite a few explanations for how it's not racist. The issue to me is that "black people are monkeys" is an established racist meme, and being insensitive to that to this degree is pretty retarded.

    Doc on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    lazegamer wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.

    Yeah! A chimpanzee is technically an APE!

    Rule of thumb: tail = monkey | no tail = ape

    This is bordering on snark, so don't take me too seriously, but some people consider the phrase the rule of thumb to be sexist because there is (dubious) evidence that it originated with a law that said a man may beat his wife with a stick no thicker than the width of his thumb. Accidental racism, meet accidental sexism? :)

    No, because that was never actually the case and its etymology actually dates back to carpenters using their thumb as an approximate measurement of width. Your arm is ~1 cubit.

    moniker on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »

    I did. Now go take a zoology course.
    LOL very relevant to this discussion.
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    Yeah and the Curious George guy said it wasn't racial. Did you believe him?

    Did Curious George go on a rampage during the campaign? No? Then no.

    So if Curious George had been in the news at the time, it would have totally been cool right?
    Except the Curious George guy blatantly had Obama's name associated with it through the sticker, obviously calling Obama a monkey.

    I see no similar correlation in the cartoon.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Alone, this looks pretty innocent (but not very funny). Taken in context of the author's previous works, I can't see how this isn't seen as racist. It was obviously the point.

    Apogee on
    8R7BtLw.png
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Doc wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    You realize the Curious George guy and the cartoonist guy are not the same person yes?

    He is suggesting that just because there is an elaborate explanation doesn't justify the more straightforward racist connotations of a situation.

    To me the racist connotations is the elaborate explanation.

    The straightforward answer for me is a chimp went balls out nuts and needed to be shot and Republicans think the stimulus bill is also balls out nuts.

    Or "so stupid a chimp could have written it." There are actually quite a few explanations for how it's not racist. The issue to me is that "black people are monkeys" is an established racist meme, and being insensitive to that to this degree is pretty retarded.

    I agree with this sentiment. This comic isn't so much evidence of racism as it is evidence of retardation.

    wazilla on
    Psn:wazukki
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Now explain why you keep writing about how we need to acknowledge the Post's freedom of speech when nobody thinks that the government should censor them.

    I'm pretty sure that I don't "keep" doing anything.

    I left that behind when folks explained that they were calling for market forces, not governmental forces, to do something, and moved on to discussing the fact that the Post's particular market is not likely to be upset over the cartoon.

    Eh, screw those guys, its the advertisers who are the ultimate targets of protests. Most companies aren't too eager to be associated with controversy, particularly racial controversy.

    take a look at the New York Post's homepage.

    This is the kind of bigoted organization that really only stands to gain "cred" among it's demo for this sort of controversy.

    Especially considering just how many ways that the cartoon can be explained without race coming in to it.

    Evander on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.
    :?:
    Did you see the comic?
    wazilla wrote: »
    Because independent of the author there are many better explanations than racism.

    And the Curious George Obama monkeys were just about his lack of experience and tendency to draft overreaching policy positions.

    I guess George W. Bush is also black?

    http://www.bushorchimp.com/

    Sometimes a monkey is just a monkey.



    I'm not saying that there is zero chance that the comic was intended to be racist, mind you. I just think the insistence of "any time a monkey is used it MUST be racist" is absurd.

    Monkeys can symbolize multiple things.

    The monkey by itself isn't racist, it's just when additional context is provided (the stimulus bill) that it becomes potentially racist. Comparing Bush to a chimp is a remark about Bush's intelligence, not the similarities between white people and monkeys.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • lazegamerlazegamer Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    lazegamer wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    And, as far as public opinion goes, hypersensitive nutcases who cry racism at stuff like this only serve to feed the eyerollers who scoff at actual racism.

    Again, a cartoonist with a fairly consistent record of bigotry and racism cartoons creates a cartoon that portrays a monkey as the author of the first African American President's first major policy initiative. How is that not overt?

    He didn't portray the author of the stimulus bill as a monkey.

    Yeah! A chimpanzee is technically an APE!

    Rule of thumb: tail = monkey | no tail = ape

    This is bordering on snark, so don't take me too seriously, but some people consider the phrase the rule of thumb to be sexist because there is (dubious) evidence that it originated with a law that said a man may beat his wife with a stick no thicker than the width of his thumb. Accidental racism, meet accidental sexism? :)

    No, because that was never actually the case and its etymology actually dates back to carpenters using their thumb as an approximate measurement of width. Your arm is ~1 cubit.

    I did say that the evidence was dubious. However, the myth carried enough weight that some people actually do believe it is sexist, and using it could offend. Especially since it has been enforced as a precedent in court cases later even though, as you say, the etymology is false.

    http://womenshistory.about.com/od/mythsofwomenshistory/a/rule_of_thumb.htm

    lazegamer on
    Surprise.
    - Spy
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    wwtMask wrote: »
    The monkey by itself isn't racist, it's just when additional context is provided (the stimulus bill) that it becomes potentially racist. Comparing Bush to a chimp is a remark about Bush's intelligence, not the similarities between white people and monkeys.

    You mean except for the pictures comparing his expressions to primates, yes?

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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