If you switch tanks at only 3 marks, you wouldn't be affected by the diminishing returns. And the 'ping-ponging' they are trying to avoid is having tanks spread around a room so that the boss just gets chain taunted, and proceeds to run around and taunted by a different tank before it ever reaches the tank which taunted it previously.
I havent ever been in a raid that did anything like that, but I cant help but hear benny hill music just trying to visualize it happening.
Yeah, that's...I mean, I guess I don't see how that would even be practical (unless maybe you were strictly using ranged DPS, and even then they'd have to hold way the hell back on what they were doing). Fighting a boss using that strategy would, at least in theory, take forever to kill and would be far more trouble than it would be worth, especially if one of the taunts got resisted. To make a change like this for such a specific situation seems like bad form.
There's glyphs that keep taunts from being resisted. And as long as the taunt is active, aggro is meaningless, so your ranged DPS could just open up and your healers could take a nap or something.
But whatever, maybe there is a deeper reasoning to it that I haven't read yet. It's mostly just irritating that they keep dicking with Rune Strike. If you don't like it, fine, remove it, but stop messing with it because people are using it. "Hey, here's Rune Strike. Wait! We don't want it to be too powerful in PvP, it's primary purpose is threat generation, here's a damage nerf. Wait! We don't want people relying on it too much for threat generation, here's another nerf".
Rune Strike is boring, stupid and far too much like the late Kill Command. But, afaik, DK threat at high gear levels depends ALOT on it. Which is the issue.
So they tuned up the threat generation for tanking pets/classes because they didn't want aggro management to be such a hassle and make tanking more accessible, and now they're basically reverting that change by giving aggro generating abilities diminishing returns?
What the fuck is wrong with these people?
I thought it was just taunts that were going to be on diminishing returns, not all threat generation. And the diminishing returns wouldn't affect normal uses of taunt, but would stop the practice of ping-ponging a boss between multiple tanks often enough to avoid any tanks actually tanking.
What fight do people do that on? Other than widow when they are going for the achievement/don't have a priest?
In live? Razuvious if you don't have any priests or all your priests die in a freak pull. No other fight in Naxx/OS/EoE would actually do this. Tish was right, I was reading reports where for a certain fight on the PTR, tanks were setting up in a triangle and circle taunting a boss.
Widow? Pfft. I've tanked her and her adds while she was enraged :P
There's glyphs that keep taunts from being resisted. And as long as the taunt is active, aggro is meaningless, so your ranged DPS could just open up and your healers could take a nap or something.
I suppose, but even so you'd have to bring only ranged (your melee DPS would be shit for a fight like that) which would be impractical at best for most guilds. If anything I guess you could use an approach (exploit?) like that to make for an easier achievement or something, but that's about it.
But whatever, maybe there is a deeper reasoning to it that I haven't read yet. It's mostly just irritating that they keep dicking with Rune Strike. If you don't like it, fine, remove it, but stop messing with it because people are using it. "Hey, here's Rune Strike. Wait! We don't want it to be too powerful in PvP, it's primary purpose is threat generation, here's a damage nerf. Wait! We don't want people relying on it too much for threat generation, here's another nerf".
Rune Strike is boring, stupid and far too much like the late Kill Command. But, afaik, DK threat at high gear levels depends ALOT on it. Which is the issue.
Rune Strike's closest to Overpower, unless I'm not understanding something about it. It's not a tremendously exciting ability, but it's not really meant to be. It's reactionary and keeps someone from just sticking to taunt or whatever, which as far as I knew was the whole point of their approach on DK tanking in the first place. But again, I'm not so much arguing that it's a great ability as I am the fact that they keep dicking with it and countering their previous reasons for doing so every time.
There's glyphs that keep taunts from being resisted. And as long as the taunt is active, aggro is meaningless, so your ranged DPS could just open up and your healers could take a nap or something.
I suppose, but even so you'd have to bring only ranged (your melee DPS would be shit for a fight like that) which would be impractical at best for most guilds. If anything I guess you could use an approach (exploit?) like that to make for an easier achievement or something, but that's about it.
But whatever, maybe there is a deeper reasoning to it that I haven't read yet. It's mostly just irritating that they keep dicking with Rune Strike. If you don't like it, fine, remove it, but stop messing with it because people are using it. "Hey, here's Rune Strike. Wait! We don't want it to be too powerful in PvP, it's primary purpose is threat generation, here's a damage nerf. Wait! We don't want people relying on it too much for threat generation, here's another nerf".
Rune Strike is boring, stupid and far too much like the late Kill Command. But, afaik, DK threat at high gear levels depends ALOT on it. Which is the issue.
Rune Strike's closest to Overpower, unless I'm not understanding something about it. It's not a tremendously exciting ability, but it's not really meant to be. It's reactionary and keeps someone from just sticking to taunt or whatever, which as far as I knew was the whole point of their approach on DK tanking in the first place. But again, I'm not so much arguing that it's a great ability as I am the fact that they keep dicking with it and countering their previous reasons for doing so every time.
It's like Kill Command because it's often just macroed into every ability. "When up, you should use it" is true almost 100% of the time, which makes it pretty boring. Just like the old Kill Command.
It's history is completely fucked up. As I remember, it was introduced in Beta as a Runic Power dump, then became a threat move when they realised DKs had some pretty big threat issues.
Using it reminds me more of Heroic Strike. You are right it requires something to trigger it being available, like Revenge or Overpower, you also have to wait on the swing timer.
Seg on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
Not very effectively at all. Speaking as someone whose main is a rogue, my DPS takes it in the ass bigtime on fights like Grobbulus where you're constantly on the move. It's just not nearly anything approaching a good idea.
It's like Kill Command because it's often just macroed into every ability. "When up, you should use it" is true almost 100% of the time, which makes it pretty boring. Just like the old Kill Command.
Eh, I've never quite understood that as a sole reason for a change (even with Kill Command). There are plenty of abilities that people pop as soon as the cooldown is up (in this case, Icebound Fortitude is a good example). If it's useful, then it's useful. Why wouldn't you pop it when it's up, barring a lack of rage/mana/energy/runic power?
It's history is completely fucked up. As I remember, it was introduced in Beta as a Runic Power dump, then became a threat move when they realised DKs had some pretty big threat issues.
It was indeed, which is pretty much my point. It was nerfed (understandably) in the beginning because DKs were raping faces with it in PvP, so the devs said "nope, bad, it's a threat ability" and now they're backing off on that as well. Like I said, they just need to really figure out what they want from it. If it's just more trouble than it's worth, then remove it (or nerf it and make it an on-command DPS only ability with a cooldown or whatever).
So basically fixing a strat no one really uses but in theory could use?
The problem is that it goes from "Could use in theory" to "The hardcore guilds do it" to "Everyone and their dog does it because OMG the hardcore guilds do it and we wanna be like them too!".
I dunno I'm not bothered by the change too much I guess, though I'm sure this was also to prevent voidys from tanking sarth 3 man.
I dont see how it would affect tanking sarth with a VW. Only times when it gets taunted is when the VW taunts off a tank at the beginning after the position is set up, and taunted back by a regular tank after the 3 drakes die.
TheTish on
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
What do they mean by "diminishing returns" on taunt? It either works or it doesn't, right? Are they saying that once something is taunted, you can't taunt it again for 15 seconds?
So basically fixing a strat no one really uses but in theory could use?
The problem is that it goes from "Could use in theory" to "The hardcore guilds do it" to "Everyone and their dog does it because OMG the hardcore guilds do it and we wanna be like them too!".
I dunno I'm not bothered by the change too much I guess, though I'm sure this was also to prevent voidys from tanking sarth 3 man.
I dont see how it would affect tanking sarth with a VW. Only times when it gets taunted is when the VW taunts off a tank at the beginning after the position is set up, and taunted back by a regular tank after the 3 drakes die.
It affects teh voids taunt right? isn't that how the void keeps aggro with repeat taunts over and over? Or did they change voidies. They might have changed voids it's been forever since I played my lock.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It's like Kill Command because it's often just macroed into every ability. "When up, you should use it" is true almost 100% of the time, which makes it pretty boring. Just like the old Kill Command.
Eh, I've never quite understood that as a sole reason for a change (even with Kill Command). There are plenty of abilities that people pop as soon as the cooldown is up (in this case, Icebound Fortitude is a good example). If it's useful, then it's useful. Why wouldn't you pop it when it's up, barring a lack of rage/mana/energy/runic power?
1) You don't pop IBF everytime it's up. There's alot of bosses where you should be saving it for big hits.
2) Let's look at Kill Command, since it was the perfect example. There was literally no reason at all not to use it everytime it came up. None. And so, the question becomes, what's the point of even letting you use it or not when there's no reason NOT to. That's why Hunters had KC macroed into every ability they had. It would just go off on it's own. It might as well have been a proc instead of an active ability.
RS suffers many of the same issues. The only reason not to use it is if your having RP issues. Otherwise it's a n brainier. When it randomly comes up, hit the button. It's dumb.
shryke on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
It's like Kill Command because it's often just macroed into every ability. "When up, you should use it" is true almost 100% of the time, which makes it pretty boring. Just like the old Kill Command.
Eh, I've never quite understood that as a sole reason for a change (even with Kill Command). There are plenty of abilities that people pop as soon as the cooldown is up (in this case, Icebound Fortitude is a good example). If it's useful, then it's useful. Why wouldn't you pop it when it's up, barring a lack of rage/mana/energy/runic power?
1) You don't pop IBF everytime it's up. There's alot of bosses where you should be saving it for big hits.
2) Let's look at Kill Command, since it was the perfect example. There was literally no reason at all not to use it everytime it came up. None. And so, the question becomes, what's the point of even letting you use it or not when there's no reason NOT to. That's why Hunters had KC macroed into every ability they had. It would just go off on it's own. It might as well have been a proc instead of an active ability.
RS suffers many of the same issues. The only reason not to use it is if your having RP issues. Otherwise it's a n brainier. When it randomly comes up, hit the button. It's dumb.
Fair enough, I'm just going off reports of what I've read from DK tanks, I only offtank on mine and even then only a few times on a few fights.
RE: Kill Command - I suppose it just never strikes me as dumb that you'd use an ability that aids your objective, be it DPS, healing or tanking, when it pops up, if your "power" pool permitted it. Why wouldn't you use it? Well yes, that's the question. Why wouldn't you? Why would you not use any ability when it comes up unless there are certain mechanics/situations in that encounter that you're "saving" it for. But by and large there are plenty of "use these when it lights up" abilities that all classes have. It's not terribly exciting, sure, but it increases DPS. I'm just saying there are ways to make it more involved if that's the rub; but I just tire of the "well you just use it every time it lights up so we're messing with it again" rationale.
I'm just saying there are ways to make it more involved if that's the rub; but I just tire of the "well you just use it every time it lights up so we're messing with it again" rationale.
I think it's perfectly reasonable if there's an ability a class is assumed to be using every time it cycles, it deserves some analysis. Might as well just remove the ability and reward the class with a passive dps buff.
The game already suffers from button bloat, if they can streamline the play without any net change in class power, I agree with the decision.
I'm just saying there are ways to make it more involved if that's the rub; but I just tire of the "well you just use it every time it lights up so we're messing with it again" rationale.
I think it's perfectly reasonable if there's an ability a class is assumed to be using every time it cycles, it deserves some analysis. Might as well just remove the ability and reward the class with a passive dps buff.
The game already suffers from button bloat, if they can streamline the play without any net change in class power, I agree with the decision.
Just be glad it isn't LOTRO that game has way way too many buttons, you have abilities that have to come from a chain three combo and you'll have 3 fucking different options all on different cool downs. That's insane.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Well I can tell you now, I use Bone Armor every time it's up (as DPS) because it's helped my survivability quite a bit. If the cooldown's up, I'll pop it just to refresh the stack. I understand the counter-position, but I just don't particularly agree with it. Sure, the game should, ideally, be about player choice. If the situation is "X", do I choose ability"Y" or ability "Z". In practice though, it just doesn't work out like that all the time.
So basically fixing a strat no one really uses but in theory could use?
The problem is that it goes from "Could use in theory" to "The hardcore guilds do it" to "Everyone and their dog does it because OMG the hardcore guilds do it and we wanna be like them too!".
I dunno I'm not bothered by the change too much I guess, though I'm sure this was also to prevent voidys from tanking sarth 3 man.
I dont see how it would affect tanking sarth with a VW. Only times when it gets taunted is when the VW taunts off a tank at the beginning after the position is set up, and taunted back by a regular tank after the 3 drakes die.
It affects teh voids taunt right? isn't that how the void keeps aggro with repeat taunts over and over? Or did they change voidies. They might have changed voids it's been forever since I played my lock.
While the VW is tanking Sarth, the rest of the raid is concentrating on the drakes, whelps, and fire elementals. Once that other stuff is finished off, and the raid switches to Sarth, a regular tank takes over for the rest of the fight.
TheTish on
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
I know what your saying tish, but most pets keep aggro by "taunting" or they used to, and this patch will also effect pet taunts.
Yeah... i guess i understand what you are saying too. It may be something that the warlock will have to just make sure isnt constantly being cast, or at least not cast more than once every 15 seconds. I don't think the VW has to keep taunting during the fight, but maybe it does to stay ahead of aggro from the healing going on.
My warlock is only 71, and I've never depended on the VW to tank anything since level 20 or so.
TheTish on
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
So back to the bullshit keyboard turning....I was MT a new naxx 10 group I started...mostly again through friends and friends of friends.
It went...decent.
I think a few more hours of doing pve content without my keyboard turning and I'll be gtg.
Also Naxx10 is easy. I dont understand why some of my friends are finding it so fucking hard. Even going as far as being unable to clear either 10 or 25man Spider.
And I like bringing in new people. Sure we dont get achievements, but I'd rather see people get geared the fuck out than a bunch of sharded shit and us getting a few achievements...that may or may not result in a drake.
If the drake is all you want, I wouldn't recommend a 10man guild going for any naxx achievements unless you like the achievements for the sake of them. An unfortunate reality is that a 10man guild is unlikely to be able to complete 10man 3drake Sartharion simply due to a lack of iLevel 213 gear. Its possible, but very improbable.
Well I can tell you now, I use Bone Armor every time it's up (as DPS) because it's helped my survivability quite a bit. If the cooldown's up, I'll pop it just to refresh the stack. I understand the counter-position, but I just don't particularly agree with it. Sure, the game should, ideally, be about player choice. If the situation is "X", do I choose ability"Y" or ability "Z". In practice though, it just doesn't work out like that all the time.
Why are refreshing Bone Shield that often? Your gimping your DPS by loosing that Undeath Rune.
And, again, your missing the point because even if you use IBF (for istance) everyitme it's up, your still sacrificing something to do so. RP and the GCD.
Kill Command did neither of these, and that was the issue.
RS uses a bit of runic power, but that's it.
shryke on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If you switch tanks at only 3 marks, you wouldn't be affected by the diminishing returns. And the 'ping-ponging' they are trying to avoid is having tanks spread around a room so that the boss just gets chain taunted, and proceeds to run around and taunted by a different tank before it ever reaches the tank which taunted it previously.
I havent ever been in a raid that did anything like that, but I cant help but hear benny hill music just trying to visualize it happening.
Yeah, that's...I mean, I guess I don't see how that would even be practical (unless maybe you were strictly using ranged DPS, and even then they'd have to hold way the hell back on what they were doing). Fighting a boss using that strategy would, at least in theory, take forever to kill and would be far more trouble than it would be worth, especially if one of the taunts got resisted. To make a change like this for such a specific situation seems like bad form.
But whatever, maybe there is a deeper reasoning to it that I haven't read yet. It's mostly just irritating that they keep dicking with Rune Strike. If you don't like it, fine, remove it, but stop messing with it because people are using it. "Hey, here's Rune Strike. Wait! We don't want it to be too powerful in PvP, it's primary purpose is threat generation, here's a damage nerf. Wait! We don't want people relying on it too much for threat generation, here's another nerf".
Ranged would not have to hold back at all, you would set it up so that the boss always no matter what had a taunt debuff ticking on him, the debuffs last for 3 seconds I believe, so you'd only have 1second where he was untaunted and in that 1second the ranged would have to put out 30% more threat than the tanks had. Quite difficult to do.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
There's glyphs that keep taunts from being resisted. And as long as the taunt is active, aggro is meaningless, so your ranged DPS could just open up and your healers could take a nap or something.
I suppose, but even so you'd have to bring only ranged (your melee DPS would be shit for a fight like that) which would be impractical at best for most guilds. If anything I guess you could use an approach (exploit?) like that to make for an easier achievement or something, but that's about it.
But whatever, maybe there is a deeper reasoning to it that I haven't read yet. It's mostly just irritating that they keep dicking with Rune Strike. If you don't like it, fine, remove it, but stop messing with it because people are using it. "Hey, here's Rune Strike. Wait! We don't want it to be too powerful in PvP, it's primary purpose is threat generation, here's a damage nerf. Wait! We don't want people relying on it too much for threat generation, here's another nerf".
Rune Strike is boring, stupid and far too much like the late Kill Command. But, afaik, DK threat at high gear levels depends ALOT on it. Which is the issue.
Rune Strike's closest to Overpower, unless I'm not understanding something about it. It's not a tremendously exciting ability, but it's not really meant to be. It's reactionary and keeps someone from just sticking to taunt or whatever, which as far as I knew was the whole point of their approach on DK tanking in the first place. But again, I'm not so much arguing that it's a great ability as I am the fact that they keep dicking with it and countering their previous reasons for doing so every time.
Rune Strike is like if Revenge and Heroic Strike got married and had a baby
Dhalphir on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
Why are refreshing Bone Shield that often? Your gimping your DPS by loosing that Undeath Rune.
And, again, your missing the point because even if you use IBF (for istance) everyitme it's up, your still sacrificing something to do so. RP and the GCD.
Kill Command did neither of these, and that was the issue.
RS uses a bit of runic power, but that's it.
If I'm gimping my DPS, I haven't seen it. I regularly put out between 3 and 4k DPS on my DK in 10s.
And fair enough, the way I read it from the devs was that they intended KC to be a reactionary ability and instead it was just macroed in, so there was no involvement on the player's part to activate it, so they changed the entire function of the ability. I just don't agree with that change; I think they could have made the ability reactionary without gutting it and making it something else entirely.
Halfmex on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I don't see how they could have made KC reactionary but un-macroable unless they put it on the global cooldown, in which case they'd have had to increase its power quite a bit to make it indisputably better to use when available rather than another Steady Shot. Any reactionary ability that isn't on the GCD can be put into a macro...it doesn't matter if you spam it or not, it will only go off when its available.
The only thing I can think of is to have made it some sort of combo point system, where each crit increases the damage of Kill Command by a certain percentage, and its balanced so that 5 charges is the ideal time to unleash it.
Actually, thats a pretty cool idea.
Dhalphir on
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
Good news, everyone! I successfully did the Heigan Dance!
Unfortunately, one of our other regulars died, so we didn't get the achievement.
Voids' Torment and pets' Growl aren't taunts, they're threat generators. Pets can get a talented taunt, though, which is why the note about diminishing returns mentions them. From what I can gather, once you taunt something it cannot be taunted again for 15 seconds. I can't think of anywhere in the game where this would break an encounter outright, but it may break alternative means of completing an encounter (Raz comes to mind first)
Has there been any mention of whether abilities that force something to attack you but don't change threat levels will be affected? Stuff like Death Grip and Mocking Blow.
Aldarez on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
it doesn't prevent it from taunting, only increases the chance to miss. they're diminishing returns, not instant loss of returns.
And I've been playing since launch, never had a reason to cancel my account. In fact I didn't cancel my account just now, one of my friends is deployed to Afghanistan and is getting moved to somewhere without internet access so he didn't want to pay for WoW when he wouldn't be able to play it.
Anyone who asks to see your "stats" before a raid can go eat a dick.
I'm 5/5 t7, 3 of them 7.5, using the two best daggers currently in game, could probably out DPS you and your entire group with my eyes closed and if you insist on seeing my "stats" before a damned heroic AN run you get a very deserved "eat me"
And I've been playing since launch, never had a reason to cancel my account. In fact I didn't cancel my account just now, one of my friends is deployed to Afghanistan and is getting moved to somewhere without internet access so he didn't want to pay for WoW when he wouldn't be able to play it.
Yeah. It's just funny to me. I don't think Will of the Forsaken has been nerfed in a while, though.
Posts
There's glyphs that keep taunts from being resisted. And as long as the taunt is active, aggro is meaningless, so your ranged DPS could just open up and your healers could take a nap or something.
Rune Strike is boring, stupid and far too much like the late Kill Command. But, afaik, DK threat at high gear levels depends ALOT on it. Which is the issue.
In live? Razuvious if you don't have any priests or all your priests die in a freak pull. No other fight in Naxx/OS/EoE would actually do this. Tish was right, I was reading reports where for a certain fight on the PTR, tanks were setting up in a triangle and circle taunting a boss.
Widow? Pfft. I've tanked her and her adds while she was enraged :P
Rune Strike's closest to Overpower, unless I'm not understanding something about it. It's not a tremendously exciting ability, but it's not really meant to be. It's reactionary and keeps someone from just sticking to taunt or whatever, which as far as I knew was the whole point of their approach on DK tanking in the first place. But again, I'm not so much arguing that it's a great ability as I am the fact that they keep dicking with it and countering their previous reasons for doing so every time.
Melee DPS can run and DPS.
It's like Kill Command because it's often just macroed into every ability. "When up, you should use it" is true almost 100% of the time, which makes it pretty boring. Just like the old Kill Command.
It's history is completely fucked up. As I remember, it was introduced in Beta as a Runic Power dump, then became a threat move when they realised DKs had some pretty big threat issues.
Using it reminds me more of Heroic Strike. You are right it requires something to trigger it being available, like Revenge or Overpower, you also have to wait on the swing timer.
Eh, I've never quite understood that as a sole reason for a change (even with Kill Command). There are plenty of abilities that people pop as soon as the cooldown is up (in this case, Icebound Fortitude is a good example). If it's useful, then it's useful. Why wouldn't you pop it when it's up, barring a lack of rage/mana/energy/runic power?
It was indeed, which is pretty much my point. It was nerfed (understandably) in the beginning because DKs were raping faces with it in PvP, so the devs said "nope, bad, it's a threat ability" and now they're backing off on that as well. Like I said, they just need to really figure out what they want from it. If it's just more trouble than it's worth, then remove it (or nerf it and make it an on-command DPS only ability with a cooldown or whatever).
I dont see how it would affect tanking sarth with a VW. Only times when it gets taunted is when the VW taunts off a tank at the beginning after the position is set up, and taunted back by a regular tank after the 3 drakes die.
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
The odds of getting resisted goes up.
It affects teh voids taunt right? isn't that how the void keeps aggro with repeat taunts over and over? Or did they change voidies. They might have changed voids it's been forever since I played my lock.
pleasepaypreacher.net
1) You don't pop IBF everytime it's up. There's alot of bosses where you should be saving it for big hits.
2) Let's look at Kill Command, since it was the perfect example. There was literally no reason at all not to use it everytime it came up. None. And so, the question becomes, what's the point of even letting you use it or not when there's no reason NOT to. That's why Hunters had KC macroed into every ability they had. It would just go off on it's own. It might as well have been a proc instead of an active ability.
RS suffers many of the same issues. The only reason not to use it is if your having RP issues. Otherwise it's a n brainier. When it randomly comes up, hit the button. It's dumb.
RE: Kill Command - I suppose it just never strikes me as dumb that you'd use an ability that aids your objective, be it DPS, healing or tanking, when it pops up, if your "power" pool permitted it. Why wouldn't you use it? Well yes, that's the question. Why wouldn't you? Why would you not use any ability when it comes up unless there are certain mechanics/situations in that encounter that you're "saving" it for. But by and large there are plenty of "use these when it lights up" abilities that all classes have. It's not terribly exciting, sure, but it increases DPS. I'm just saying there are ways to make it more involved if that's the rub; but I just tire of the "well you just use it every time it lights up so we're messing with it again" rationale.
I think it's perfectly reasonable if there's an ability a class is assumed to be using every time it cycles, it deserves some analysis. Might as well just remove the ability and reward the class with a passive dps buff.
The game already suffers from button bloat, if they can streamline the play without any net change in class power, I agree with the decision.
Just be glad it isn't LOTRO that game has way way too many buttons, you have abilities that have to come from a chain three combo and you'll have 3 fucking different options all on different cool downs. That's insane.
pleasepaypreacher.net
While the VW is tanking Sarth, the rest of the raid is concentrating on the drakes, whelps, and fire elementals. Once that other stuff is finished off, and the raid switches to Sarth, a regular tank takes over for the rest of the fight.
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
pleasepaypreacher.net
Yeah... i guess i understand what you are saying too. It may be something that the warlock will have to just make sure isnt constantly being cast, or at least not cast more than once every 15 seconds. I don't think the VW has to keep taunting during the fight, but maybe it does to stay ahead of aggro from the healing going on.
My warlock is only 71, and I've never depended on the VW to tank anything since level 20 or so.
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
If the drake is all you want, I wouldn't recommend a 10man guild going for any naxx achievements unless you like the achievements for the sake of them. An unfortunate reality is that a 10man guild is unlikely to be able to complete 10man 3drake Sartharion simply due to a lack of iLevel 213 gear. Its possible, but very improbable.
I don't play a warlock so I could be mistaken, but reading the skill it doesn't appear to actually taunt, but just adds a static amount of threat.
Why are refreshing Bone Shield that often? Your gimping your DPS by loosing that Undeath Rune.
And, again, your missing the point because even if you use IBF (for istance) everyitme it's up, your still sacrificing something to do so. RP and the GCD.
Kill Command did neither of these, and that was the issue.
RS uses a bit of runic power, but that's it.
Ranged would not have to hold back at all, you would set it up so that the boss always no matter what had a taunt debuff ticking on him, the debuffs last for 3 seconds I believe, so you'd only have 1second where he was untaunted and in that 1second the ranged would have to put out 30% more threat than the tanks had. Quite difficult to do.
Rune Strike is like if Revenge and Heroic Strike got married and had a baby
And fair enough, the way I read it from the devs was that they intended KC to be a reactionary ability and instead it was just macroed in, so there was no involvement on the player's part to activate it, so they changed the entire function of the ability. I just don't agree with that change; I think they could have made the ability reactionary without gutting it and making it something else entirely.
The only thing I can think of is to have made it some sort of combo point system, where each crit increases the damage of Kill Command by a certain percentage, and its balanced so that 5 charges is the ideal time to unleash it.
Actually, thats a pretty cool idea.
Unfortunately, one of our other regulars died, so we didn't get the achievement.
first time you do that successfully always feels good
And guess what? Killing her is just as boring as it's always been!
I'm 5/5 t7, 3 of them 7.5, using the two best daggers currently in game, could probably out DPS you and your entire group with my eyes closed and if you insist on seeing my "stats" before a damned heroic AN run you get a very deserved "eat me"
Yeah. It's just funny to me. I don't think Will of the Forsaken has been nerfed in a while, though.
It was a reasonable reason for quite some time.