The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Am I looking at this all backwards?
yalborap
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, most of you know me. You've seen my threads. Loneliness is a pretty common factor in starting them. Various solutions are proposed that generally get shot down, others are simply not done, and the last few fail when I work up the will to try them. However, a friend's comment that I should focus on improving myself and the rest should just happen has left me thinking if I'm looking at this backwards.
I've put a heavy focus on the idea that I need friends. That as long as I'm alone like this, I'm not going to be happy, and even if the friends were lost I'd be in a better position just from knowing I could gain them in the first place. However, this situation has left me wondering if that should really be the case.
So here we are. Would you say I'm looking at it properly( 1. Get friends 2. Keep friends, find love 3. ??? 4. Profit!!!), or all wrong, and the true answer is 1. Be happy on my own 2. ??? 3. ??? 4. Profit!!! ?
What do you guys think? And do you have any thoughts on mental tricks or things to get my mind out of this rut so I can start taking the more physical advice I've gotten instead of waving it off as hopeless, and actually progress? Just simple little stuff that can be mulled over and an overly-analytical mind will have a hard time cracking wide open.
I've put a heavy focus on the idea that I need friends. That as long as I'm alone like this, I'm not going to be happy, and even if the friends were lost I'd be in a better position just from knowing I could gain them in the first place. However, this situation has left me wondering if that should really be the case.
So here we are. Would you say I'm looking at it properly( 1. Get friends 2. Keep friends, find love 3. ??? 4. Profit!!!), or all wrong, and the true answer is 1. Be happy on my own 2. ??? 3. ??? 4. Profit!!! ?
What do you guys think? And do you have any thoughts on mental tricks or things to get my mind out of this rut so I can start taking the more physical advice I've gotten instead of waving it off as hopeless, and actually progress? Just simple little stuff that can be mulled over and an overly-analytical mind will have a hard time cracking wide open.
yalborap on
0
Posts
There's a saying among alcoholics in AA: fake it until you make it. If you appear to be confident, people will like you, which will grant you real confidence, making it easier to appear even more confident. It's a self-perpetuating cycle, only it's not the shitty one where you feel bad about yourself and crappy things happen.
Alternatively, antidepressants
Yeah, I've heard that before, but honestly do not know how to fake confidence. Especially without coming across as an arrogant cockbag.
Come on, man. It can't be any worse than where you are. Just try it.
Then what all would you consider values equated with confidence?
Look, you don't need to boast about yourself. When you're talking to people though, don't be afraid of saying whatever it is you want to say. You're not an idiot, and the questions you want to ask aren't dumb.
You might think you are. It doesn't matter what you think- the whole point is to "pretend" you're an awesome person until you realize that you don't really need to pretend anything.
I did. I'm clean shaven. I still don't have high opinions of my appearance, but dammit, I'm clean shaven.
And for the record, I NEVER thought it looked good. I just didn't want stupid bullshit about how the first shave was 'meaningful'. That's why I just figured it out on my own one day via the internet when everyone else was out.
Also: the people you're trying to be friends with, are they anything like you? I spent the first half of high school trying to hang out with skaters because I thought I'd be higher on the "social ladder" before I realized how stupid that was.
What people? I've had some meaningless conversations, but due to being in independent studies and various other stuff, I can hardly properly meet anyone. I don't have a job(and before you suggest getting one, I'm already putting applications out there and trying to get success as a freelancer, but it's not going anywhere.), so that source is out. And I'm a senior in my final semester, so I won't have school for very much longer and am way too close to the end to just go back to public school and fuck everything up, just to finally manage to get the hang of things again like a week before it ends.
I find that embracing solipsism helps. I mean, it won't help you; you do not exist. But if I were you? I'd totally be a solipsist.
If you're gonna be that way, fine.
Be around people. If you're going to college, live in the dorms. Join a church and go on confirmation retreats. Something. I don't know.
Force yourself to be surrounded by people you have to talk to. All the time.
Well, yes and no. To a degree I like being able to heavily control my stuff, to have an internet conversation where I can be watching a TV show or playing a videogame or something between responses, or can quickly grab some extra info before I say anything. And I get the same kind of feeling if I'm just ignored.
On the other hand...I get damn lonely, and that gets depressing. If I didn't, I wouldn't be in here.
I'm a 22 year old High School drop out. I've been unemployed for over a year now. I've never had a relationship that lasted longer than a month. I have social anxiety and panic attacks to a degree which has made me stop smoking weed because weed now gives me panic attacks (if you can believe such a thing). My musical and film preferences differ greatly from everyone I know. I'm an opinionated asshole.
Yet somehow, I have friends. It's not always about agreeing with someone, but being able to enjoy disagreeing with someone. The key is to be able to say "This, this, and this is wrong with me, but fuck it becuase This, That, and the Other is wrong with everyone else." Confidence isn't thinking you're better than everyone, its knowing whats wrong with you and being comfortable with it and also knowing that other people have things that are wrong with them and being okay with that as well.
Once you've accepted that, You'll be able to connect to a wide variety of people, all of which will become a meaningful and influential part of your life.
Now, I could very well be wrong, But I'm totally okay with that. Not everyone can be right all the time.
I hope somehow that this semi-drunken rant has helped you. You can totally do it, I believe in you.
By the by, I'm totally new to this forum, so I have no idea who anyone is. Very glad to meet all of you.
-S
If you have a few friends you see often (like I do), and want to meet more, it'll happen. It just takes time. I met one of my best friends at the mall, and it led to me having friends all around the country. Fancy that.
Maybe in the sense of "you shouldn't think about it or you might doubt it."
Because it is, without exception, true.
There is a big difference between getting lonely sometimes and being lonely all the time. One of them sucks for a little while... the other is perpetually crushing.
Unfortunately, I don't really have any proper friends. So that's out.
What do you think it will take to get real confidence?
I'll take that one step forward and point out that in a relative sense you're not fucked up at all.
Being too self analytical is one of the most crippling things you can do to yourself. You've now convinced yourself that you're more screwed up in the head than other people and that you aren't normal. Look at me: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=83474 (btw we can close this, good responses too, thanks guys) I mean wtf. I hope every word of that strikes you as ludicrous. I'm actually pretty outgoing now a days, but look what over analyzing reduced me to! Over that? Look at this guy, http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=83613
Every single human on this planet could make a stupid overlong post about what keeps them up at night. In some ways yes we're all unique special snowflakes, sure, but in this we, and you, are not unique, or special, or in any way notably different. Overthinking yourself in this way is just terrible. I'm not asking you to willingly become an idiot, but you ever try walking and intentionally trying to look casual? What happens? You look like you're doing some robot dance. This isn't that different.
Something to keep in mind, and you may not wanna hear this, is that most people you're gonna come across in your life, especially in settings like college, are nice people that would be friendly with you if you engaged them. I know I am, you are (albeit probably shy if someone just came up and said hi, but you're not gonna tell them to buzz off), everyone in this topic, etc. As discussed, none of us are that damned different. We all want to meet new people and have new friends, especially if we run off to something new like a new job or school.
Another problem is that you seem to associate confidence with being a cockbag. Well that's just wrong. What you are right now? That's not confident. Is the opposite of that a cockbag? No.
And something that helped me: Don't ever lie in a casual conversation about yourself again(people will debate this when picking up women, but that's not what you're trying to do). Oh come on, you've done it, we all have, but if you're anything like me, and you are (I AM me and I just read about you, so I know) it becomes a part of us "trying" to be normal. Like I said, it's not something you try to succeed at. That's along the vein of "being yourself", because yourself is nothing to be ashamed of. You may never be the life of the party, or the womanizer, or the center of attention, but are those the only people in this world who are normal? The ONLY person in this topic and in this world who thinks you should be lonely by virtue of who you are is you. And so you are. Stop that.
Indeed. The brain essentially works with patterns. Feeling a lack of confidence in a social situation is your brain working in a pattern it feels is "business as usual". You've got to work to break that pattern. The brain is an ever-changing, ever-evolving organism. And evolution, as we all know (or should know) takes time.
It will also take trial and error. But if you work at it hard enough, you can change the chemistry of your brain to feel more comfortable in social situations.
So basically, you will have to fake confidence. Even if at first you do come off as an "arrogant cockbag". Once you find the right combination of cockbaggery and congeniality, keep at it. Your brain will soon adapt to this new pattern and social situations won't be so balls out frightening. After that, itll become second nature.
It just takes guts, my friend.
-S
That's kind of what I was saying. But not in the ever annoying sugar-coated "Mary Poppins" way most people try to say. Not to say your response was like that in the least bit, just saying that we ALL have problems. This is one of the many things that unites us, and accepting that can be very therapeutic and, indeed, comforting.
A great quote from Michael Stipe of R.E.M. in terms of his song-writing: "I eventually realized that if I'm thinking or feeling something, there's a good chance there's a lot of other people thinking or feeling the same thing".
Hope you don't think I'M being a cockbag. I was just tellin' it rough and dirty, the way the world likes to sometimes.
-S
Awesomeness crossed with humbleness and a good helping of being normal?
Trust me, dog. There isn't such thing as "normal"... atleast not the way we've all being taught. As long as you don't have the urge to kill, rape, or harm either yourself or others, you're "normal". Accept your oddities. Be comfortable with them. Because, believe me, when you get socially close to someone, either as a friend or a lover, you'll find all sorts of oddities they have... and its the best thing ever. It shows that we're all a little cracked.
Just don't focus on what you think makes you "different". We're all different. Variety is the spice of live, and personally I wouldn't have it any other way.
Even if it does make things damn complicating some times.
But indeed humbleness is a factor, and trust me, some one out there thinks you're awesome. I know someone who thinks I'm awesome (not to brag or anything; we're not dating). You just gotta search for them. It's an adventure: the process might suck, but the payoff is well worth it.
-S
There's one thing we can all agree on though, it's that whatever you're doing now doesn't work. I would suggest trying the arrogant cockbag idea. I conciously decided to be an arrogant cockbag in high school, I forget the reasons why, but I seriously sat down and made the decision to be an arrogant cockbag. That lasted about a year, and in that time taught me a lot. Suprisingly, I actually got a lot more attention from girls while acting like an arrogant cockbag. The idea baffled me then, but after some reflection I concluded that it has something to do with a woman's strong desire to teach arrogant cockbags how not to be arrogant cockbags. It's almost instinctual. Thus, there are some forces working in favor of cockbagism.
With guys however, cockbagism is a mixed bag (of cocks). Most guys only appreciate cockbagism when it's directed toward someone or something that they don't care about. As soon as you're a cockbag at them, they feel challenged and either want to kick your ass or stay away from you. Some guys enjoy someone who's a cockbag all the time as they themselves supress their natural cockbagism and feel like they can open up around you. Finally there is a third category of guy who doesn't appreciate cockbagism under any circumstances. These guys probably won't want to kick your ass, but they will likely call you a douche-bag in their conversations with others, thus hurting your chances of making friends with those people.
In my experience, becoming an arrogant cockbag made it challenging to get along with some of the friends I already had, but at the same time allowed me to forge many new relationships that were simply not possible before. Eventually the maintenance associated with being an arrogant cockbag at all times out-weighed it's benefits, so I went back to being someone more like myself. In your case though, someone who doesn't already have a lot of friends, cockbagism can only help.
That is how I started becoming more confident.
You don't have to be a dick about it like "Hi I'm blah blah and my ears fucking kick ass" just say it in your mind.
That's a year out, most likely. I'm looking to at least end up in a college town, though, so I could take advantage of the culture before actually managing to get in.
Personally, I think the whole "confidence" thing is a red herring—because the kind of confidence that people find attractive is often just a byproduct of being happy and well-adjusted. I think it's perfectly okay to be shy and unassuming if you're happy with your life. The trick is to figure out how to be happy.
Here's my suggestion: pick an activity—ideally a social activity—that you've maybe thought about doing but discounted for whatever reason (shyness, impracticality, whatever), and just do it. For example, go do volunteer work, or join a local nerd club (if it was November I would order you to do Nanowrimo).
Don't set up any expectations for yourself. I'm guessing you're a wallflower; don't go with the expectation that you'll suddenly stop being a wallflower. Don't worry about being overconfident or underconfident or whatever. If you're like me, social situations seem scary because there are so many ways to fuck up and seem weird. But the secret is that most people are so wrapped up in themselves that they don't ever notice what we perceive as "fuck-ups." Just do something out of your routine, and allow yourself to be happy while doing it.
Also, making friends is a crapshoot.
Do it. I will say that living in the dorms freshman year is a hell of an experience. :^:
For most people, that is.
It's still a bit in question, since I've found I really learn a LOT better when basically left on my own with a bunch of books, instead of doing classes.
But at the very least, I'll be in a town with plenty of people, and plenty of people coming for the first time.
That's not me bashing the system, its just pretty much how it works. No one will hold your hand through college/university so the more you teach yourself the better you will do.
Going to college for your scholastic education is great and all, however you are missing out on a huge opportunity to get educated in being social and outgoing. You want to be a professional photographer don't you?
How are you going to get a job as a photographer without having great connections? I know going to college and declaring "photography" as your major seems kind of pointless, but only in the scholastic aspect of it. You will gain connections in the outside world. A photographer needs to be very sociable in order to be successful. This is something I can't stress enough, you need to give college a try if at all possible. If you don't like it, so be it; drop out before your incur too much debt.
Either way I'm sure it will change the way your perceive and act around people, which is something (if I'm not mistaken) you are looking to do.
Put yourself in a situation where you and others need to communicate to get something done. And then see what happens. You can't force it.
Of course, I'm an introvert, so take my advice with a big old grain of salt.
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
Late to the this, so apologies if it sounds like something someone else already posted.
Before you necessarily worry about social behavior, you can focus on appearance. Hold your head high. Keep your back straight. Look directly at people when they talk and when you are talking to them. The point is not to dominate anyone, but also not to look intimidated yourself.
Depending on the social circles you hang around, clean and iron all of your clothes. Don't necessarily go for fashion expert looks, but do get something that you feel comfortable wearing. Comfort can show.
Yeah, I've been slowly working on that kind of stuff. It's rather hard when you're so used to doing the opposite and keeping in a position to stay "out of trouble", though.
Maybe. I've always thought confidence is just part of knowing the truth; about yourself, your capabilities- what you can do, what you're good at- knowing when to give way to other's experience and expertise, knowing when to stand on your own expertise. It's cool if you don't know how to do something, let other people shine, and show you the way. Learn from them.
I suppose the best advice I've ever gotten in regards to being friends is 'Be the person you want to be friends with'. It's cliche, but its also true. Decide what you are looking for in a good freind, and work on improving and showing those characteristics.
As for being lonely right now in High School - well, sometimes thats just the way it goes. Pretty small pool of people you've got to work with, and the education system is built on keeping people divided and segregated. It's all very static. You take a class with x people, you have an activity with x people, x people are into this, x people go tto this party, x people are accepted into this circle of friends.
When you leave that environment and hit a much, much larger pool, say, the population of a city, the divisions still exists, but that number becomes much more flexible, people come and people go, all the time. Adding one more is no biggie, so slipping in and out of groups becomes much, much easier.
For me personally, it takes a great deal of aquantance time before I can make good friends, years in fact. Don't get me wrong, I have many very good aquantances, but my good friends are few and far between. I'm very challenging to relate to on a personal level, and I know this about myself. I'm very confident socially, but that doesn't make or break the situation. In the end, the characteristics I look for are very rare, and so life is a bit of an odds game- I meet and greet as many people as I can to find those rare few.
Play the odds, meet and greet, be a good guy. Over time some people will recognize that you're a good fellow to hang with. Be open and inviting to them, and those relationships will grow. Don't be so worried about it just yet- the environment you're in is sort of a friendship by necessity game. It'll shift more towards compatibility in a while, you just have to give it some time.
I might also recommend you get a copy of 'How to win friends and influence people'. I read it before going into high school, and it totally changed how I interact with people. Its the only 'self help' book I've ever read. It was published in the thirties but still rocks hard. Pretty simple tips on managing your interactions with other people to ensure that they stay interested. I still break it out when ever a work project is getting me all antisocial and introverted.