Hundreds of government employees are doing horrible things RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND.
Clearly we should impeach Obama for taking care of what ultimately effects Billions of people first.
*sigh*
Strawman much? We know that some of these employees have done horrible things in their capacity as government employees. We have known some time. Wasn't a moment during the campaign or transition period that somebody could have thought "Well, we might as well get someone in there as soon as possible to make sure abuses don't continue until the closure of the camp." Nothing about an immediate investigation, just a simple group of observers ensuring that no one unduly puts a boot into the ribs of a prisoner. But, going the majority consensus here, that would have apparently been too much work for an unforeseeable problem.
Should there be criminal investigations and prosecutions of Bush administration members for war crimes?
And there is one huge can of worms, which it might not be better to go into just yet since it's bound to devolve quickly (though we are going nowhere as is). Better to discuss whether or not recent decisions upholding the previous interpretation of state secrets would harm any future opportunity for investigation, given that with the ongoing economic crisis and battle over stimulus, investigation in the United States is not going to happen anytime soon. However, not gagging the British courts from making public certain evidence that they have every right to make public would be a huge step in the right direction...
Read through the George W Bush thread, we debated it in there somewhere.
As for Holder, I liked that he expressed that he made mistakes with regards to Rich which was refreshing and I liked that he's not afraid to speak candidly about race. The state secrets thing is in fact concerning, but I'm not judging him entirely on the one thing.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Also, I'm curious - is this an issue where you voted for him and you now feel cheated because his #1 priority isn't your #1 priority? I don't think there's anything wrong with that - a bit naive but justifiable. The alternative, less so, is that you're a republican who found something to complain about that democrats might be sympathetic to without too much research. Maybe there's a third option, but I'm just trying to see your aim in this.
I suppose it stems from a revulsion towards the bandwagon mentality that seems to permeate the majority of Obama supporters. I voted for Obama because he was the best choice given, the issue of human rights was not, and remains not my top priority. I see the many fellow "liberal-minded" people dismissing problems that would have been pounced upon and loudly waved around were the previous administration still in office. This does not mean I want overreaction, but it concerns me that Obama is given a free pass. I suppose that my perception of the administration's multitasking is a bit different than the majority's, so for now all I can do is sit back down and be more patient.
Despite some disquieting decisions or oversights, I do believe that Obama will eventually greatly rescind the human rights abuses routinely carried out by the Bush administration, and even much of the expanded surveillance powers. This does not mean that, until then, we should hesitate to point out mistakes or wrongdoing in current actions.
I am glad to hear that. If for no other reason than I can somewhat empathize with your position. I think you're being a bit hard on Obama, but if you don't make the case for it no one else will.
I would also say he's being a bit hard on Obama, but it's certainly something I understand. I read Greenwald every day and I agree with him a lot, but I think he's a little hasty sometimes. I'm willing to give the administration a couple months go get their shit together, let Holder visit Gitmo and we'll see where we are.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I guess the only thing I strongly disagree with is the thread title. It seems like hand-wringing to say "he ran on a campaign of change, but he's really an empty suit like everyone else."
I guess the only thing I strongly disagree with is the thread title. It seems like hand-wringing to say "he ran on a campaign of change, but he's really an empty suit like everyone else."
Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri will be charged and tried in a civilian court. He's the only "enemy combatant" that was arrested and held in US territory in legal limbo for the last several years.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Posts
*sigh*
Strawman much? We know that some of these employees have done horrible things in their capacity as government employees. We have known some time. Wasn't a moment during the campaign or transition period that somebody could have thought "Well, we might as well get someone in there as soon as possible to make sure abuses don't continue until the closure of the camp." Nothing about an immediate investigation, just a simple group of observers ensuring that no one unduly puts a boot into the ribs of a prisoner. But, going the majority consensus here, that would have apparently been too much work for an unforeseeable problem.
And there is one huge can of worms, which it might not be better to go into just yet since it's bound to devolve quickly (though we are going nowhere as is). Better to discuss whether or not recent decisions upholding the previous interpretation of state secrets would harm any future opportunity for investigation, given that with the ongoing economic crisis and battle over stimulus, investigation in the United States is not going to happen anytime soon. However, not gagging the British courts from making public certain evidence that they have every right to make public would be a huge step in the right direction...
As for Holder, I liked that he expressed that he made mistakes with regards to Rich which was refreshing and I liked that he's not afraid to speak candidly about race. The state secrets thing is in fact concerning, but I'm not judging him entirely on the one thing.
I am glad to hear that. If for no other reason than I can somewhat empathize with your position. I think you're being a bit hard on Obama, but if you don't make the case for it no one else will.
i was actually thinking about killing a hobo when you typed that.
Youtube thinks he's more important than an empty suit.
Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri will be charged and tried in a civilian court. He's the only "enemy combatant" that was arrested and held in US territory in legal limbo for the last several years.