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What's so enthralling about being sad? What are your own favorite tear-jerkers?
JamesKeenan
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Registered User regular
This idea was a purely speculative one that grew out of my own obsession for the past few days with this one episode of Angel, "I Will Remember You." Sarah Michelle Gellar's performance was just so perfect for the scene. And there's just so much history behind their relationship, and to have it and then lose it like this?! It's hitting me harder than most storms on record.*
That's a metaphor for other sad entertainment moments, not a reference to actual storms.
In any case, that's only my own story. The thread is about discussing the rather simple be substantial question of why we like to be made so sad in the first place.
Myself? It's a weakness. Sad movies. Sad moments. I always, always want a happy ending. And truly, it has little to do with a happy or sad ending. Good endings stick with me no matter what, no that I think about it.
But I wonder what makes it seem like it's the sad endings which stick the hardest and strongest? Is it human nature? Just me? Am I just depressed? Too existentialist?
Is it actually the tragic moments that resonate the longest? Is that just a character flaw that I allow that to happen? If I were whole more mature would I instead allow for those to pass through me? Not losing their significance, but losing the... the aftershocks?
Finally, what makes you sad? What are some of your favorite sad moments? Of books, movies, television shows, theatre.
The kind that rip your heart to pieces, but that you just couldn't imagine having never seen or experienced?
I'm glad to feel so broken and wronged by this unutterably tragic episode. I would curse anyone who offered me a chance to forget it. What's that about?
That's a metaphor for other sad entertainment moments, not a reference to actual storms.
In any case, that's only my own story. The thread is about discussing the rather simple be substantial question of why we like to be made so sad in the first place.
Myself? It's a weakness. Sad movies. Sad moments. I always, always want a happy ending. And truly, it has little to do with a happy or sad ending. Good endings stick with me no matter what, no that I think about it.
But I wonder what makes it seem like it's the sad endings which stick the hardest and strongest? Is it human nature? Just me? Am I just depressed? Too existentialist?
Is it actually the tragic moments that resonate the longest? Is that just a character flaw that I allow that to happen? If I were whole more mature would I instead allow for those to pass through me? Not losing their significance, but losing the... the aftershocks?
Finally, what makes you sad? What are some of your favorite sad moments? Of books, movies, television shows, theatre.
The kind that rip your heart to pieces, but that you just couldn't imagine having never seen or experienced?
I'm glad to feel so broken and wronged by this unutterably tragic episode. I would curse anyone who offered me a chance to forget it. What's that about?
JamesKeenan on
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The end of A Knight's Tale was a 'happy ending'. The problem I saw was that
That's not to say they're not all like that, but enough are, I think, to make an ending 'forgettable' because it doesn't resonate with us. Powerfully sad endings, however, do because the only reason we find them sad is that the characters have become real to us and we share in that pain. We're not pushed away by some bad plot device, but drawn in by the desperate futility of whatever it is the character is failing at.
Anyway, WALL-E comes to mind, but I don't think that counts because PIXAR ultimately lets the audience off the hook.
In addition to most of the questions I asked in the OP particularly the last, really, I really want to explore this line of thought.
What about it do/should we mean, "let off the hook"?
First of all, the exact same "cheating" could be said about any movie, good or bad. There are probably proportionately as many examples of sad movies with "cheats." Plot devices and events which don't make sense, but exist only to assure the 'tragic' ending.
That is what I meant about "good" endings meaning the most rather than happy or sad. I meant good as in 'quality.' I suppose it's just so phenomenally easier to write out "nope, everything is shit" than trying to plan how the characters could possibly make happiness.
You've written in a clever conflict. Now you've either got to write in an even more clever resolution, or just let the characters fail.
But going back to "letting them off the hook."
Why couldn't it have been, "The audience was rewarded?" "Letting them off the hook" really paints the picture as if melancholia should be the default position of human emotion.
At the same time, completely negative endings suffer from this as well, although perhaps I don't mind as much because there are fewer of them. My favourite films/books/games have bittersweet or highly ambivalent endings - something that Joss Whedon sometimes does to brilliant effect. Brazil is another example of this, although a very dark one: you can argue that considering everything that has happened,
Edit: What you say about melancholia - I don't think it's the default emotion for la condition humaine, so to speak. It is, however, probably my default emotion (which may have something to do with clinical depression in my case) and I would definitely say that it has an influence on what resonates with me in fiction.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Going back to what I said, I think perhaps I overthought the happy ending.
If we're moved by a movie to the point that we cry, that we physically express our emotion, then like I said in my first post, those characters have become real to us. Maybe it's not so much that we remember the sad endings better than the good inherently, but that movies that make us feel sad are more memorable in their entirety because of how emotionally attached we became as simple viewers.
The notion that you're remembering the sad endings more may be bias, or maybe it's just that movies with sad endings only work if the audience becomes attached, whereas if you're going with the cliched 'happy' ending, you don't have to work so hard - if the audience isn't really attached, oh well. A happy ending without the attachment may seem sappy or cheesy, but a sad ending without the attachment becomes boring or awkward. I think writers and producers are more willing to accept the criticism of trying and failing to create a happy ending than they are with a sad, so sad endings may be approached with more care.
I dunno, now I'm rambling.
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From a "we need to keep this show going to make money" perspective, I understand where you're coming from.
But looking more at, "How the hell does it end?"
I tend to prefer happy. Angel and Buffy may never have been able to be together for completely different, legitimate reasons.
But the manner in which Whedon strung his characters along, drew out and exacerbated their pain?
Terrible, but I couldn't imagine taking those pieces out.
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This may be important.
The thing that springs to mind is this. I want to believe that a story can have all the emotional impact and connection as the most despairing, saddest, more gut-wrenching story ever. I can't seem to think of, off the top of my head right now, some amazingly high quality books or stories where all the characters actually all got what they wanted in the end, and it turned out good.
Yup, yup.
Happy endings are certainly more popular.
I wonder now if it is easier or not to create a meaningful sad story, or a meaningful happy story. I guess it doesn't matter at all, and this is completely unrelated. I mean, by the end of it, if it's good you're hooked and if it's not, you're not. The quality or happiness of the ending is completely unknown and irrelevant to whether or not you are attached by time the ending arrives.
And I've been the model of crystal clear thought and brevity.
Of course, it's also somewhat of a loaded question. The only time you care about a sad ending is if you're emotionally invested in the characters, which means that the movie and story is enthralling you, ergo you're going to be attached to it regardless of the ending.
Yes, I'm aware of that bit. Hence the stipulation about quality in the ending is ultimately what matters more.
Followed by my question of why it can feel that sad endings resonate the longest. And whether or not it was just me. And then if, perchance, it was something about a more despondent resolution that actually had a little more power over us, or some of us. And then of course why that is...
Because it sticks out and is unusual. A standard happily ever after isn't much of a stinger.
Never cried because you were happy?
B.) What does crying have to do with it? Endings are only memorable if you cry?
No, that's not precisely what I meant.
I was more talking about how a powerful, happy moment can have the same kind of crippling, overpowering emotional effect that a traumatic, tragic one can have.
Give me a moment or a day to really try to think of a solid, good example.
ABLOO ABLOO ABLOO
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As has been said, it's all about the movie before it. If the ending fits and completes a rounded whole then the ending will resonate with you, happy or sad. If it feels out of place or cheated then it can easily ruin a movie (I hate it when they make a big deal out of a character dying, then bringing them back. Hate).
My favourite kind of ending is a Happy At A Price one- the protagonist succeeds, but his journey was not without a price. If done well it can be extremely powerful.
Pursuit of Happyness. Emotional roller-coaster. But that's an example where the ending is a good one for the protagonist but still has an emotional ending.
Million Dollar Baby - jesus the ending is sad
Miracle
But as others have said, a good emotional reaction to a movie (whether that reaction is of happiness, or sadness, or anger, etc.) means that you were emotionally invested in the characters in that movie.
...Legends of the Fall.
"Samuel!"
Of course, what followed was a scene of utter badassitude, so I don't feel too guilty about that one.
Although in a way a worse scene later in the movie was when...
EDIT: And how could I forget the scene in the car?
Bye. . .clearance puppy.
Especially if you actually go and listen to the music the kid talks about in the book.
I think people like these movies because it makes them feel something. Alot of times I like just turning my brain off and watching Bruce Willis somehow survived explosion after explosion. Sometimes I like an intricate story line and trying to figure out what's going on. And sometimes I like to have something get past all my emotional barriers and force me to express myself emotionally.
I don't do that all that often.
Season 3 spoiler:
Season 4:
In books, I found Stephen Baxter's Evolution incredibly depressing, though not necessarily sad when I first read it.
Oh wow...
Ouch... Yeah, man. I couldn't be forced to read that.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Here's a song by a band none of you will like, that always gets me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m46fBHCpHI
(Sorry for the stupid slidshow)
Might as well get the Fry's dog thing out of the way too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18GiPfCEqK4
I'll post up more later as I think of them.
GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)
I see your Jurassic Bark and raise you the ending to Forrest Gump
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAV-Ogaq12A
I WILLL WAIITT FOR YOUUU!
GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)
^My favorite book. Sad.
Also, I don't think that all endings are either happy or sad. For instance, was the ending to Lost in Translation happy or sad? I'd say neither.
Sniff. I have a friend who refuses to watch it after his first viewing.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
Man that was some shit.
I watched that with my girlfriend at the time
We cried... alot
My copy of the book from childhood is tear-stained.
I think bittersweet or depressing entertainment can be enjoyed for the richness of the emotion itself, but there's also something to be said for it as an act of exorcism and confrontation of our own darker feelings.
Here Comes Garfield
And then there's Voices of a Distant Star, a rather artsy anime about mecha star combat...
The final duel between Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi. Luke loses it completely, giving into his fear and anger about his loved ones being threatened. They he gets punked by the emperor, and you just watch someone who is almost the pinnacle of heroism (refusing to kill Vader) being destroyed by pure evil. Then the heroism of Vader, killing the emperor to save his son. Writing this is kinda choking me up, and I get misty-eyed when I hear the music from that scene.
That's kind of sad/happy/badass and it has the side effect of being really nerdy.
A really good one for just outright sad, Requiem for a Dream. I'm not sure there are words for how incredibly depressing the end of that movie is. However, it's a great movie, a fantastic story paired with a really deep emotional resonance.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Another scene that has this effect is the one from The Royal Tennenbaums where Luke Wilson's character is shown breaking down on the tennis court.
Finally, for whatever reason I think the scene from Kung Fu Hustle where Stephen Chow breaks the mute girl's lollipop.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
But yeah, that and 'Big Fish' are my sad movies. Sooo depressing.
Which I like. I also thought Wall-e was a copout. If they had left the roach dead and Wall-E mind wiped that would have easily been my favorite pixar movie.