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Would you pay to play in a tabletop role-playing game campaign?
Would you hire a game master to run a campaign for you?
Have you ever done so?
Have you ever been paid as a game master?
What would you expect from a paid game master or the campaign being run? What kind of preparation or performance should be expected from a game master who is receiving payment for services?
How much have you paid or would pay? And for how many hours? For an hourly rate? Per session?
Is being a professional game master a viable career path in this day and age? What do you guys think?
I've discussed this sort of thing on other forums and there have been a lot of different views and experiences with this topic. There are plenty of arguments for and against the "profession" of game mastering. What are your points of view?
Captain_Commando on
0
Posts
UtsanomikoBros before DoesRollin' in the thlayRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
There was a thread about this some months back about one experienced GM who ran paid sessions, met with a mix of reactions. Personally, I think it's reasonable to charge for their time and effort provided they're very good and experienced and the players all enjoy it much more than trying to find a GM or run games themselves.
You definitely can't make a full career out of it. Even if you ran a game every night you wouldn't be making much money.
I'd pay for it as long as the GM was good. I've never been able to play alongside all of my friends, as one of us has to take the GM role (usually me), so it'd be worth it just for the chance to have everyone be a PC.
I had a friend who worked in real estate (and made enough money to have disposable income to commit toward this) that was absolutely enthused about GMing in general, and very specifically Call of Cthulhu. He ran professional one-shot games with fog, mood setting music, sound effects, all sorts of fun stuff. (He also enjoyed cooking and would often work a meal into the evening) He could get a decent amount to run them, too; however, I think he probably invested more money into his set-up, materials and travel than he ever actually saw in return.
So: I think you could certainly do it as a fun hobby, but no, in no way is it at all a viable profession. Besides, gamers are notoriously cheap. They'd often rather steal or pirate the very gaming materials that form the core of their hobby than pay for them. That said, there wouldn't be enough of a market to provide that kind of service. Maybe if you were the only one who did it and had free travel all over the country, but the specific customer you'd need just isn't readily available enough.
A professional GM would be really weird and awkward and completely change the mood of the game at the table, so no, I don't think I ever would.
That being said, I agree with the above. It would be pretty much impossible to make a living doing that. Gamers are cheapasses, and my friends would instantly pick an new GM from amidst themselves if I started charging them.
Rainfall on
0
UtsanomikoBros before DoesRollin' in the thlayRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I can't imagine the mood of a 'professional' would be much different than any other GM that isn't among your circle of friends, such as at a convention, local delve night or one of the employees of your game store. I may not be paying any of the later up front with 'cab fare' on the nightstand, but they're still providing a service and I can still be social and on friendly terms with them. I don't get knots in my stomach being friends with my hair stylist, and I could surely find a friend to cut hair for free.
Now what I'd really like to see is community classes offered on GMing. Screw pottery and public speaking, I want some hands-on map and improvised encounter-building lessons. :P
Now what I'd really like to see is community classes offered on GMing. Screw pottery and public speaking, I want some hands-on map and improvised encounter-building lessons. :P
Hmm. I wonder if people would pay for seminars on GMing or tutorial classes that teach all the major dos and don'ts of GMing. They'd have to include workshops where tips are given on how to spice up storytelling and combat, if any.
It would be worth it if professional GMs had already invested in these materials without having to make their players pay a shitton for rulebooks and other trinkets.
Other than that, I can see this profession play out like a part time baby sitting gig or even an accredited college class .
Now what I'd really like to see is community classes offered on GMing. Screw pottery and public speaking, I want some hands-on map and improvised encounter-building lessons. :P
Hmm. I wonder if people would pay for seminars on GMing or tutorial classes that teach all the major dos and don'ts of GMing. They'd have to include workshops where tips are given on how to spice up storytelling and combat, if any.
That's not a bad idea, actually. Might be worth it if only to get more competant GMs out into the field.
JaysonFour on
I can has cheezburger, yes?
0
UtsanomikoBros before DoesRollin' in the thlayRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Group GM writing/adventure planning courses as a supplement, as well; it's be nice to have people to share and borrow tricks, techniques, 'horror stories', usable tropes and ideas, and work on adventures together as a group.
Or maybe that's doable as some kind of local 'living' game club (maybe 5-10 GMs put together a single adventure each week, run them for their respective groups, share the results and repeat next week), or just a dedicated online forum (or somebody make a PA thread).
As big of a project I find GMing each week can be, it's very rewarding with the right group, though I do find the notion of charging for it a bit odd; I'll GM a system I like for the price of a free meal.
The trick with turning this into money is having a large enough customer base. Does anyone think their city has enough GM's in it to actually sustain someone trying to professionally do some of these things?
Darkewolfe on
What is this I don't even.
0
El SkidThe frozen white northRegistered Userregular
It would be worth it if professional GMs had already invested in these materials without having to make their players pay a shitton for rulebooks and other trinkets.
I'm not sure it would be legal to advertise "Has bought the rulebooks so you don't have to" and then charge for the service.
I'm sure there's some kind of copyright issue there, though I'm fuzzy on the exact reason I think it'd be illegal.
It would be worth it if professional GMs had already invested in these materials without having to make their players pay a shitton for rulebooks and other trinkets.
I'm not sure it would be legal to advertise "Has bought the rulebooks so you don't have to" and then charge for the service.
I'm sure there's some kind of copyright issue there, though I'm fuzzy on the exact reason I think it'd be illegal.
Also, Hi Monday! :P
I dunno, thats like saying Xbox is cracking down on every babysitter that says "they have halo on their house and your kids are totally welcome to play"
As far as rulebooks are concerned all your paying for are the rules and materials not so much the players and the game itself being held. Rule books are pretty much sports equipment and that pretty much makes us the sports players.
It would be worth it if professional GMs had already invested in these materials without having to make their players pay a shitton for rulebooks and other trinkets.
Other than that, I can see this profession play out like a part time baby sitting gig or even an accredited college class .
Really I dont think I would mind if I could chip in with the rest of my party for maybe 6 or 7 bucks a person for a 4 hour session if the GM brings everything. I mean, you get 5 people and thats like 30 bucks for something I would assume the GM enjoys doing. Hell, maybe even up to $10 if he does a good job, thats only like $40 a month for 16 hours of fun engaging and interactive entertainment.
If I had disposable income I would totally call that worth it.
It would be worth it if professional GMs had already invested in these materials without having to make their players pay a shitton for rulebooks and other trinkets.
Other than that, I can see this profession play out like a part time baby sitting gig or even an accredited college class .
Really I dont think I would mind if I could chip in with the rest of my party for maybe 6 or 7 bucks a person for a 4 hour session if the GM brings everything. I mean, you get 5 people and thats like 30 bucks for something I would assume the GM enjoys doing. Hell, maybe even up to $10 if he does a good job, thats only like $40 a month for 16 hours of fun engaging and interactive entertainment.
If I had disposable income I would totally call that worth it.
Right. If you had disposable income. Are there enough people with disposable income willing to pay for that service?
In an imaginary world where I have more money than I know what to do with, paid for GMing sounds a great idea! More play, less prep and a professional quality delivery.
In reality? There will always be something I'd rather spend my money on.
Jam Warrior on
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
One of the things I'm planning on doing when my acting career takes off and I'm ridiculously rich (or even moderately rich) is to pay Talonrazor to start running his Pearl City campaign again. Only because I really like the campaign.
I don't think I'd just pay for a random GM, though. I can find plenty of people to GM among my friends.
In an imaginary world where I have more money than I know what to do with, paid for GMing sounds a great idea! More play, less prep and a professional quality delivery.
In reality? There will always be something I'd rather spend my money on.
Yeah, that's the real problem. once you've had it free, paying anything seems ridiculous.
I mean, the price Lardalish mentioned is comparable to renting movies for the same amount of time, and cheaper by far than the theater (movie or otherwise), drinks even at the most penny-pinchingest happy hour, mini golf, bowling, practically anything besides TV or socializing at home (these conclusions found when taken in terms of cost/hour of entertainment).
But compared to having someone DM for free, expecially if you're still chipping in for some 'za or the other foodage, there's no way most people would pay, even those of us with disposable incomes (unless the GM uses a fog machine, has 3d maps, and does voices like frank caliendo or jeff dunham).
After all, $40 a month is about what I've spent over the course of 4E on books anyway.
there's no way most people would pay, even those of us with disposable incomes (unless the GM uses a fog machine, has 3d maps, and does voices like frank caliendo or jeff dunham).
there's no way most people would pay, even those of us with disposable incomes (unless the GM uses a fog machine, has 3d maps, and does voices like frank caliendo or jeff dunham).
When I can afford a projector, I am definitely doing this (I've been thinking about it for a while).
Also, what Dareth said. Though, I don't play often enough (thankfully this is being changed) to make anything other than "free" worthwhile to me. It really just comes down to the group of players, I think.
One of the things I'm planning on doing when my acting career takes off and I'm ridiculously rich (or even moderately rich) is to pay Talonrazor to start running his Pearl City campaign again. Only because I really like the campaign.
I don't think I'd just pay for a random GM, though. I can find plenty of people to GM among my friends.
If my schedule allows this summer, I may, may run it. I could run it now because I just recently had a time-slot open but it'd only last for about two months before the time slot closed again. If there is enough interest, I could run a few short adventures in the campaign world with possibility of transitioning to a longer campaign if the Army lets me have some time...
Talonrazor on
0
Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
One of the things I'm planning on doing when my acting career takes off and I'm ridiculously rich (or even moderately rich) is to pay Talonrazor to start running his Pearl City campaign again. Only because I really like the campaign.
I don't think I'd just pay for a random GM, though. I can find plenty of people to GM among my friends.
If my schedule allows this summer, I may, may run it. I could run it now because I just recently had a time-slot open but it'd only last for about two months before the time slot closed again. If there is enough interest, I could run a few short adventures in the campaign world with possibility of transitioning to a longer campaign if the Army lets me have some time...
Oh, so it's the Army that's stolen you away from us...
Well, when I'm rich and famous, I'll make the army an offer it can't refuse to station you in my mansion. Your official Army designation will be "Senior Gaming Sergeant" and you will be provided with extensive materials and manpower (projectors, artists, those computers that are basically a huge table screen, etc.) to create the most immersive Pearl City experience that is possible.
One of the things I'm planning on doing when my acting career takes off and I'm ridiculously rich (or even moderately rich) is to pay Talonrazor to start running his Pearl City campaign again. Only because I really like the campaign.
I don't think I'd just pay for a random GM, though. I can find plenty of people to GM among my friends.
If my schedule allows this summer, I may, may run it. I could run it now because I just recently had a time-slot open but it'd only last for about two months before the time slot closed again. If there is enough interest, I could run a few short adventures in the campaign world with possibility of transitioning to a longer campaign if the Army lets me have some time...
Oh, so it's the Army that's stolen you away from us...
Well, when I'm rich and famous, I'll make the army an offer it can't refuse to station you in my mansion. Your official Army designation will be "Senior Gaming Sergeant" and you will be provided with extensive materials and manpower (projectors, artists, those computers that are basically a huge table screen, etc.) to create the most immersive Pearl City experience that is possible.
One of the things I'm planning on doing when my acting career takes off and I'm ridiculously rich (or even moderately rich) is to pay Talonrazor to start running his Pearl City campaign again. Only because I really like the campaign.
I don't think I'd just pay for a random GM, though. I can find plenty of people to GM among my friends.
If my schedule allows this summer, I may, may run it. I could run it now because I just recently had a time-slot open but it'd only last for about two months before the time slot closed again. If there is enough interest, I could run a few short adventures in the campaign world with possibility of transitioning to a longer campaign if the Army lets me have some time...
Back on topic: the first thought of "paying a GM to run a game" made me uneasy. I wouldn't pay a GM to just run a game. Not even a good one. But then, Darkewolfe reminded me of huge LARPs organized during RPG and fantasy conventions here* and this is a case when I would consider shelling out some money just to cover the costs of running the show.
*Darkewolfe actually mentioned Call of Cthulhu games, which got me thinking of CoC live-action games organized by HPLHS and those reminded me of fantasy LARPs common during local conventions.
Mike West on
Michael Jason West
"SyFy - this shit is crazy!" - Gabe
Oh, large scale LARP's are absolutely totally different affairs. The administration involved: location, food, safety and security, transportation questions and the management of a plot often organized around 20-50 people, those all absolutely warrant a cost.
Small-scale ones may be just as impressive - if you look at what the folks from HPLHS could cook up for a single team of gamers (six to eight people, IIRC), you'll understand. Abundance of props, for instance. In that case, I'd pay up too.
Mike West on
Michael Jason West
"SyFy - this shit is crazy!" - Gabe
Posts
You definitely can't make a full career out of it. Even if you ran a game every night you wouldn't be making much money.
EDIT: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=69835&highlight=professional
So: I think you could certainly do it as a fun hobby, but no, in no way is it at all a viable profession. Besides, gamers are notoriously cheap. They'd often rather steal or pirate the very gaming materials that form the core of their hobby than pay for them. That said, there wouldn't be enough of a market to provide that kind of service. Maybe if you were the only one who did it and had free travel all over the country, but the specific customer you'd need just isn't readily available enough.
That being said, I agree with the above. It would be pretty much impossible to make a living doing that. Gamers are cheapasses, and my friends would instantly pick an new GM from amidst themselves if I started charging them.
Now what I'd really like to see is community classes offered on GMing. Screw pottery and public speaking, I want some hands-on map and improvised encounter-building lessons. :P
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Hmm. I wonder if people would pay for seminars on GMing or tutorial classes that teach all the major dos and don'ts of GMing. They'd have to include workshops where tips are given on how to spice up storytelling and combat, if any.
Other than that, I can see this profession play out like a part time baby sitting gig or even an accredited college class .
That's not a bad idea, actually. Might be worth it if only to get more competant GMs out into the field.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Or maybe that's doable as some kind of local 'living' game club (maybe 5-10 GMs put together a single adventure each week, run them for their respective groups, share the results and repeat next week), or just a dedicated online forum (or somebody make a PA thread).
As big of a project I find GMing each week can be, it's very rewarding with the right group, though I do find the notion of charging for it a bit odd; I'll GM a system I like for the price of a free meal.
I'm not sure it would be legal to advertise "Has bought the rulebooks so you don't have to" and then charge for the service.
I'm sure there's some kind of copyright issue there, though I'm fuzzy on the exact reason I think it'd be illegal.
Also, Hi Monday! :P
I dunno, thats like saying Xbox is cracking down on every babysitter that says "they have halo on their house and your kids are totally welcome to play"
As far as rulebooks are concerned all your paying for are the rules and materials not so much the players and the game itself being held. Rule books are pretty much sports equipment and that pretty much makes us the sports players.
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...... WE'RE JOCKS !!
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
*nails cheerleader, dies in drunk driving accident*
Really I dont think I would mind if I could chip in with the rest of my party for maybe 6 or 7 bucks a person for a 4 hour session if the GM brings everything. I mean, you get 5 people and thats like 30 bucks for something I would assume the GM enjoys doing. Hell, maybe even up to $10 if he does a good job, thats only like $40 a month for 16 hours of fun engaging and interactive entertainment.
If I had disposable income I would totally call that worth it.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
Right. If you had disposable income. Are there enough people with disposable income willing to pay for that service?
In reality? There will always be something I'd rather spend my money on.
I don't think I'd just pay for a random GM, though. I can find plenty of people to GM among my friends.
Yeah, that's the real problem. once you've had it free, paying anything seems ridiculous.
I mean, the price Lardalish mentioned is comparable to renting movies for the same amount of time, and cheaper by far than the theater (movie or otherwise), drinks even at the most penny-pinchingest happy hour, mini golf, bowling, practically anything besides TV or socializing at home (these conclusions found when taken in terms of cost/hour of entertainment).
But compared to having someone DM for free, expecially if you're still chipping in for some 'za or the other foodage, there's no way most people would pay, even those of us with disposable incomes (unless the GM uses a fog machine, has 3d maps, and does voices like frank caliendo or jeff dunham).
After all, $40 a month is about what I've spent over the course of 4E on books anyway.
fixed with revisions.
- The group would have to pitch in together
- It would have to be a regularly played, long-term, campaign.
When I can afford a projector, I am definitely doing this (I've been thinking about it for a while).
Also, what Dareth said. Though, I don't play often enough (thankfully this is being changed) to make anything other than "free" worthwhile to me. It really just comes down to the group of players, I think.
If my schedule allows this summer, I may, may run it. I could run it now because I just recently had a time-slot open but it'd only last for about two months before the time slot closed again. If there is enough interest, I could run a few short adventures in the campaign world with possibility of transitioning to a longer campaign if the Army lets me have some time...
Well, when I'm rich and famous, I'll make the army an offer it can't refuse to station you in my mansion. Your official Army designation will be "Senior Gaming Sergeant" and you will be provided with extensive materials and manpower (projectors, artists, those computers that are basically a huge table screen, etc.) to create the most immersive Pearl City experience that is possible.
That would be awesome.
DO IT.
*Darkewolfe actually mentioned Call of Cthulhu games, which got me thinking of CoC live-action games organized by HPLHS and those reminded me of fantasy LARPs common during local conventions.
"SyFy - this shit is crazy!" - Gabe
"SyFy - this shit is crazy!" - Gabe