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  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    My one thought is that, sometimes you use a straight black ink for shadow and you don't use any shading to create the illusion that its a real shadow. Other times you do and it doesn't always feel like there is a rational (lighting wise or style wise) for this.

    A good example is panels 2 and 3 of this current page. The guys come off a bit flat in the second panel where the same guy seems fleshed out and rounded in the 3rd.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I can understand doing that a bit for pictures where the characters are farther away and "smaller" but, just because there is more in a panel doesn't seem like a good reason to drop the detail unless the detail would make a character "pop out" at the viewer less.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I dont like this. what was your reason for trying to split the box? I can see you're seperating the action, but i think it would work better without it.

    ml0bro.jpg



    everything else is super though :lol:

    winter_combat_knight on
  • earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I don't think I'd mind it so much if the hand was overlapping the separator.

    earthwormadam on
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm liking this so far, but I do have a few comments:

    I know this isn't writer's block, but the first bubble on the page seems overly expositional. Obviously he's an instructor, so exposition may be his middle name, but each character should strive to have a unique voice. That first line is just a very simplistic explanation that feels like it's coming directly from the writer and not through the vessel of a developed character.

    As for the tonal discussion, it definitely looks like you're still developing a preference for shading style. What you're discussing regarding the simple shading in the first panel vs the following headshots makes sense, but then in the final panel on the page you switch back to relatively basic hard tones. It feels like that final image of the instructor could use more detail/rendering, as it's rather large and isolated.

    You may want to take a look at the artwork in the Gunslinger/Dark Tower graphic novel series. There are lots of hard black shadows used very well on characters that still feel fully rendered. Here are a few examples:

    dt1.jpg
    dt2.jpg

    Heartlash on
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  • Forbe!Forbe! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm sure its been mentioned. But the one thing seriously holding this back for me is the choice of font.

    Forbe! on
    bv2ylq8pac8s.png
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I know this isn't writer's block, but the first bubble on the page seems overly expositional. Obviously he's an instructor, so exposition may be his middle name, but each character should strive to have a unique voice. That first line is just a very simplistic explanation that feels like it's coming directly from the writer and not through the vessel of a developed character.

    Thanks for the feedback. The intent was for him to come off as annoyed, rather than just statically explaining the situation. He complained about the situation several pages earlier. Did this not come across?
    I'm sure its been mentioned. But the one thing seriously holding this back for me is the choice of font.

    We are trying to work out a better alternative (Kenny is designing a font that looks more hand lettered).

    Mace1370 on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Page 16 is done. Comments and crits welcome.

    2010-05-01-page16.jpg

    Mace1370 on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Page 17 is done. Comments and crits are welcome.

    2010-05-15-page17.jpg

    Edit: Fixed a pretty terrible typo.

    Mace1370 on
  • Guy BellGuy Bell Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Two things that you are really excelling at that most comic artists forget:
    1. Considering light source and it's effect on figures.
    2. Establishing an environment panel every few panels.

    Guy Bell on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Page 18 is up. We tried using a new font for this. It looked really good inside of Illustrator, but for some reason when I saved the file it came out less spectacular looking. You'll notice the bottom of some letters (usually y's and g's) are getting cut off. Also, the font appears a lot less clear than it did inside of illustrator. I'm saving the jpeg at 70% quality, which I think should be more than enough.

    2010-05-30-page18.jpg

    Mace1370 on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Is your illustrator image much larger than the final one? that could lead to the text problems...

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    Is your illustrator image much larger than the final one? that could lead to the text problems...

    Larger in size or dimension? Dimension wise the original image is 2100x3150, so the web upload one isn't too much smaller. Size wise the illustrator file is 38MB and the web upload is 300kB.

    Mace1370 on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So we haven't updated in a long time. In our defense both of us have been very busy! Here are three new pages, though! All comments are appreciated.

    2010-10-01-page19.jpg

    2010-10-07-page20.jpg

    2010-10-09-page21.jpg

    We decided to ditch the font I had on page 18 (and I even went back and changed page 18 to the original font). I think it just looks cleaner.

    Mace1370 on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I hope everyone had a great turkey day. Here is page 22! Any comments/crits are welcome.

    2010-11-24-page22.jpg

    Mace1370 on
  • squidbunnysquidbunny Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The solid black shadows are working way better with the black gutters. :^:

    squidbunny on
    header_image_sm.jpg
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Thanks squid

    Kendeathwalker on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    New page. All comments and crits and welcome!

    2010-12-18-page23.jpg

    Mace1370 on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    New page, comments and crits are welcome.

    2011-01-25-page24.jpg

    For this page we changed the word bubbles to eggshell white. We tried the hand lettering, but couldn't make it look good. I think the color change helps make the bubbles not stand out so much, though. Let us know what you think.

    We also created a making of feature that shows our step by step process in the creation of a page:

    http://www.irisiastory.com/?page_id=255

    Mace1370 on
  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Been a while since I've been around the AC. So when I saw this thread, I was like 'oh! this thing is still going?'

    Which is great! So I wanted to compliment you guys on sticking to your guns and committing to a project for so long. (I can't do it) Good job!

    Sublimus on
  • NibCromNibCrom Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm digging the off-white for the dialogue balloons.

    NibCrom on
  • squidbunnysquidbunny Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Off-white is an improvement, yeah, but it's subtle. You could easily push it farther, I think.

    Looking great.

    squidbunny on
    header_image_sm.jpg
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
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    Kendeathwalker on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
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    Kendeathwalker on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2011
    His lower body is throwing me off, I keep interpreting his foot as being on the sun in the bottom left hand corner. I also feel like theres something strange about the twisting, his upper body doesn't seem to have the strain and wrinkles to get the legs to face a completely different angle, its hard for me to imagine whats going on under his arm.

    Iruka on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
    Geth
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2011
    Sorry! I should have said something earlier, I was busy traveling.

    I think that its a very strong image even without the fix, the colors are wonderful, very rich and pleasant. The texture on the planets is also appealing. If you work on the legs I think it can only get better!

    (is calling me Ikrua a joke that sushi eaters like to make, or is that a dyslexia thing?)

    Iruka on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2011
    haha, its cool, people do it alot.

    Iruka on
  • The FoolThe Fool Registered User
    edited January 2011
    Very cool painting Ken. I love how there are obviously unreal elements like a tree in the sun and the little 2D star, but they're right in among very real and detailed elements like the wisps of a corona and visible atmosphere of the planet. Keeps the mind plenty occupied taking it all in.

    I do agree with Iruka though. Looks a little like he's a giant standing on that star. I think part of that is because the colors of the sun near his foot are darker than the rest, looks like a shadow.

    Even still, I really like it. Nicely done dude.

    The Fool on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
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    Kendeathwalker on
  • comicracycomicracy Registered User
    edited February 2011
    Nice work so are these digital or what?

    comicracy on
    micro.gif
  • ninjaininjai Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    very thought provoking image. I'm a fan

    ninjai on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Hey guys, we just uploaded page 25:

    2011-03-15-page25.jpg

    Comments are as always welcome. I made the color of the bubbles a little heavier as per the comment from the last page.

    Mace1370 on
  • Toji SuzuharaToji Suzuhara Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I read through the comic to get a better sense of where this page is coming from, and I skimmed the comments in the thread (so forgive me if I repeat a crit).

    It was fairly entertaining when I got a dozen or so issues in and acclimated myself to the visuals and the writing, but the biggest flaw is the lack of consistency.

    It looks like you're (talking to Ken, here) approaching the art as a painter (that is, you're more focused on the overall mood and shapes of the finished piece) and not as a draftsman. As a result, faces have wildly different features from panel to panel, and page to page. That wouldn't be such a problem if the comic had fewer characters, but it's got all sorts of people from all different houses intermingling as the story shifts perspective every couple of pages. It's really disorienting when you're reading it all as a chunk. It makes it harder to remember who is who instantly, which in turn makes it harder to follow the plot. You can be loose with faces in illustrations, but it doesn't cut it in this kind of comic.

    In general, the most important thing a comic artist need to focus on above all else is clarity. Where are they? Who am I seeing? What is the action? What are they saying (specifically, through their expressions and body language)?

    If you can't answer those questions instantly with your art, I'm less inclined to "believe" your story and characters as a reader. It's the difference between watching a great film and a b-movie.

    I'd suggest three things:
    1. Bone up on perspective. Just learning how characters' heights relate to a horizon line will help you immensely. Following that, you can get some fast and dirty (reliable) results with perspective grids. Finally, reexamine one-point and two-point perspective. Really think about why and when you'd use them. Don't worry about more points until you have those two in the bag.

    2. Make friends with your ruler. If you're going to draw this comic, and not paint it, make friends with drawing tools and methods. A ruler will force you to be a lot more honest with everything you draw, which will ultimately help you develop better consistency. A t-square would help, too.

    3. Character sheets. This comic already has something like 10-15 named characters. Draw out what the important ones look like (what their face shapes, and features look like from multiple angles and what their builds are would be the basics) and refer to them. Make them fit the design sheets every single time.

    There's a lot to like about the art, and with more attention to drawing, there will be a lot to love about the art.

    ---

    As far as the lettering goes, don't lean too heavily on bubbles that break the borders. This page in particular could be relettered with it only breaking the borders once, and that's because of poor planning in the panel 2/3 area. It's a bad idea to break gutters often, because gutters serve to separate the panels in time, by separating them in space. When they're not reliably separating the panels, their magic doesn't work. Was it written in the script that Ander would be in panel 2, and Girl would be in panel 3? Generally, it'd be better to have the person speaking first to the left of the person speaking second, but since they're escaping to the right, the way you have it set up is an exception. Why are they split apart, though? It would've worked better as a single shot of the two of them (possibly Girl as seen over Ander's right shoulder [I guess this wasn't so much a lettering crit as a planning crit]).

    Generally, the lettering should help guide the eye. You use it to hint at where it's important for us to look.
    Like this...
    Iria.jpg
    This arrangement hints more strongly that the reader should look at the dudes exiting, which is far more important than looking at the figures in the large panel.

    ---

    That said, keep fighting the good fight (that's to say comics), you guys.

    Toji Suzuhara on
    AlphaFlag_200x40.jpg
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
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    Kendeathwalker on
  • Toji SuzuharaToji Suzuhara Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh, okay. I see what you were doing with the silhouettes and the people reveals. I don't know why I didn't catch that when reading it.

    In that case, what I'd propose is adding another panel, inset in the first to be the springboard for the girl's first line in the dialogue, like this:

    25thumb.jpg

    That way there's nothing odd about the read order of the bubbles.

    While I was at it, I roughed out how I'd tackle the rest of the page... (I hope that's okay). Your first and the last two panels are really good at showing both exit of the two characters and the adversarial nature of the exchange with the brother. If you pick up the left-to-right exit for trouble panels you can enforce their resolve to keep going despite the brother's protestations (talking to her back helps, too).

    Addressing your post in reverse order...! Yeah, the previous four are a lot more consistent. There's still a bit of shifting in the characters' builds, and a lot of the male characters (besides the twins) look a little similar, but that shot of the mage's face close up built up from the previous panel is great. I think you should keep referring to that as a style guide for the overall look of the comic.

    I don't really know how I feel about the idea of your starting over with pages. Or, many of them. It seems like a bit of a trap where you'll spend a lot of effort and then get to the pages that are new now in the future and want to redo those and the cycle begins anew. McGibs must've drawn the start of his comic at least three times when he was doing it however many years ago that was, versus someone like this guy where his comic is a steady gradient of improvement without looking back. It might be worth it if this comic is your baby, but losing your forward momentum can be pretty demoralizing. I'm sure you're well aware of how important morale is for drawing comics.

    Toji Suzuhara on
    AlphaFlag_200x40.jpg
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
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    Kendeathwalker on
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