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Posts

  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Two things are wrong with your theory:

    1) That gesture exercise is used for ALL degrees, not just animators. If anything the other degree plans are pressured to nail the idea more so than the animation degree, because of the simple fact they won't be able to practice it as much during their time in the studio.

    I didn't go into the other type of exercises because I feel like the gesture is the most basic (and important), but the others help cement the structure/form/etc.

    Over here if you if you don't absolutely nail the gesture, box forms and weight of the body, they refuse to allow you to move on to the anatomy class. It's that important.


    2) Glen Keane worked on Tarzan. Not just the main character, but supervising pretty much all of it.

    Also while Pocahontas was pretty mediocre, the character herself was a powerhouse of animation. The Beast and Tarzan had facial features and movements that were exaggerated to a degree, while Pocahontas had very subtle movements that convinced the audience that she was real without hammering the idea that she was animated. I'll snag a photo of the in-betweens to illustrate what I mean by this.



    I'm not really disagreeing with what you're saying, but it seems our schools have very different trains of thought.

    Godfather on
    0WBv0.png
  • ShizumaruShizumaru Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Godfather wrote: »
    Two things are wrong with your theory:

    1) That gesture exercise is used for ALL degrees, not just animators. If anything the other degree plans are pressured to nail the idea more so than the animation degree, because of the simple fact they won't be able to practice it as much during their time in the studio.

    I didn't go into the other type of exercises because I feel like the gesture is the most basic (and important), but the others help cement the structure/form/etc.

    Over here if you if you don't absolutely nail the gesture, box forms and weight of the body, they refuse to allow you to move on to the anatomy class. It's that important.


    2) Glen Keane worked on Tarzan. Not just the main character, but supervising pretty much all of it.

    Also while Pocahontas was pretty mediocre, the character herself was a powerhouse of animation. The Beast and Tarzan had facial features and movements that were exaggerated to a degree, while Pocahontas had very subtle movements that convinced the audience that she was real without hammering the idea that she was animated. I'll snag a photo of the in-betweens to illustrate what I mean by this.



    I'm not really disagreeing with what you're saying, but it seems our schools have very different trains of thought.

    I think we're pretty much saying the same things heh.. maybe, maybe not. What I'm saying is, is that a 'gesture' is only as good as the structure that will ultimately support it. I've seen tons of drawings that have as their basis, great dynamics... but fall short on the structure side, which then weakens the overall impact of the drawing itself.. so you need both. Unless you're just talking about seeing lines of action and rhythms which are incredibly important.. but again, its one thing to 'see' them, but its another to put them together with sound structure, so that the drawing actually reads.

    Shizumaru on
  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    That sounds like some sound reasoning.

    You'll have to forgive me for not possessing the lexicon I require to better hammer the point across, so it seems like i'm just repeating the same thing over and over again and coming off as a smug bastard.

    I would love to attend some classes at the other respected school to see how things work over there and where you're coming from, but alas it's not in my power to do so.

    Godfather on
    0WBv0.png
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ken you radical bro, would you consider doing a 1-2 hour fully pencil-rendered (as though from life) sketch of a naked dude/dudette? I'd be interested to see how it turned out.

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Alright Ken, as promised I snagged a few photos for you. My camera isn't the best and doesn't take the greatest pictures, but I did the best I could.

    First off, the gesture studies:


    KncgJ.jpg


    Right off the bat you can tell that there's depth, weight, mass and volume in these examples. Also note that each of these were probably done in about a minute's time exactly.



    The more you're able to study the energy in a pose like this, the more you'll be able to understand and convey the actions without having to go too far into detail.


    LwbNu.jpg



    Eventually you'll be able to set up quick, complex compositions without having to do the internal structure, and you can just roll with what's important


    xMLOH.jpg





    Look at these character frames of Pocahontas in mid run:


    vQ45u.jpg


    Notice the subtlety in the movements and gestures that sell the believability, without going over the top?



    That's not to say that it doesn't work both ways, like this Beast speed gesture for example:


    pctiI.jpg

    But again, you're probably not aiming for that.


    Alright, it's late and I gotta get some sleep. Hope that compliments the arguement well enough.

    Godfather on
    0WBv0.png
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    thanks man, that confirmed that I interpreted your critique correctly.

    Kendeathwalker on
  • EndithinksEndithinks Registered User
    edited September 2009
    This thread has taught me a lot. What a great read. Keep em coming!

    Endithinks on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • AgentflitAgentflit Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Well I was gonna wait till I was unjailed to post these but whatever

    Been working on a comic and the first two pages have been released so I can show some of the art now. With out further ado..


    p4-pg2

    p5-pg2



    pg2p4

    pg2p5

    Here is page 1


    2009-10-30-page1.jpg


    2009-10-30-page2.jpg

    if you would like to see the website

    http://irisiastory.com


    Ive had a lot of time to distance myself from these and work out what I dont think is working and what to improve but Critical feedback is always welcome. and Id prefer not to taint any of it with my own beforehand.

    quotin dis

    I like this style but it is confusing where to look sometimes. I'd ditch the ellipses altogether. The horse's head popping out is pretty jarring.

    edit: oh man page 2 is really great

    Agentflit on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    that text is painful. At the very least, I would drop the size or the font or increase the size of the dialog box so it's not crammed all up against the sides.

    the text is pretty large, especially the one dialog balloon, just drop the size of it.

    also, this reminds me a lot of that military comic posted by that guy that took it to a comic-con and dennis o'neal told him to start tracing.... I forget who that guy was.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • AgentflitAgentflit Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    You might as well go the extra mile and hand draw the boxes. Maybe some kind of olde-tyme paper, or just simple shapes analogous to the painting style?

    PBF had some pretty big text but he got away with it 'cause it was all done by hand.

    Agentflit on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    No, must've had a spring loose for a bit, because I totally forgot that was you. My bad.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Hey guys, I'm the writer. I appreciate the comments so far. Constructive criticism is always welcome.
    that text is painful. At the very least, I would drop the size or the font or increase the size of the dialog box so it's not crammed all up against the sides.

    the text is pretty large, especially the one dialog balloon, just drop the size of it.

    This is a good suggestion. Other than font size, is there anything else I can do to improve the lettering?

    Mace1370 on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    For one, I would avoid using such an ornate font for narration and dialog.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    For one, I would avoid using such an ornate font for narration and dialog.

    Ok, I'll make some changes and post the updates here once I finish them. Thanks for the help.

    Edit: What's a good guideline for space between the textbox and the text inside?

    Mace1370 on
  • Guy BellGuy Bell Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Agreed. Makes it look like something out of a bad renaissance fair. Really detracts from the nice artwork.

    Guy Bell on
  • IkageIkage Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Very nicely storyboarded! Has a good flow and every shot is a perfect for that scene.

    Though for a second there I was trying to figure out the significance of the closeup on the gauntlet, but I'm assuming it's that kingdom's royal mark and it was shown to emphasize them. And tieing it in with the text-such a mark would bring enemies due to that tie to the kingdom. Which is why Pointy Mc Shooty knows who to shoot.

    Instead of just shooting everyone that comes that way. Which would just kill anyone's shoulder after awhile and I'm sure getting up that tree was exhausting enough. But then again he is a musculary sort of man so such a thing wouldn't be a problem.

    Also the pencilwork is banging! It excites me when artists work traditionally for comics.

    Ikage on
    STRONGER THEN DIRT!! DIRT STRONG!
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Mace1370 wrote: »
    For one, I would avoid using such an ornate font for narration and dialog.

    Ok, I'll make some changes and post the updates here once I finish them. Thanks for the help.

    Edit: What's a good guideline for space between the textbox and the text inside?

    Once you choose your font, a general rule of thumb is to be able to fit the space of the equivalent of a lowercase "m" from said font around your text at any point. I forget where I read that, and most comic fonts don't have lowercases, but it's not hard to imagine.

    this, this, and this are all helpful. I also always suggest checking out the lettering work of Stan Sakai.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • AgentflitAgentflit Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I'll add one more, I love this guide for balloons. I love that whole blog, actually.

    Agentflit on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    very good. that's the first I'd seen that one.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Sorry it took me so long to get these done. I had a huge test today and it was consuming me. Anyways, I've taken the feedback given so far into consideration and came up with these:

    2009-10-30-page1.jpg

    2009-10-31-page2.jpg

    Let me know what you think about the new lettering.

    Mace1370 on
  • DeeLockDeeLock Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Sooo much better.

    I haven't mentioned that I like the art yet, so this is me mentioning it.

    DeeLock on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Two new pages today! Let us know what you think:

    2009-11-14-page3.jpg

    2009-11-15-page4.jpg

    I'm getting better with the pen tool, but it still feels pretty awkward to me. I think I just need more practice making my balloon tails a consistent width.

    Mace1370 on
  • NatriNatri Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Waw, this is great, Ken. I've been going through this thread looking at your studies and life drawings, and then I come upon the comic, which I think is really good. I wish I could give you criticism that is more helpful but I don't have the knowledge to say what is right or wrong. It looks great to me anyway, love to see more.

    Natri on
    www.instagram.com/ceneven
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    lettering's getting much better. your ovals run a little tight in the corners.

    you can try doing this just slightly to your ovals to give more room without adding a bunch of unwanted white space.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Natri wrote: »
    Waw, this is great, Ken. I've been going through this thread looking at your studies and life drawings, and then I come upon the comic, which I think is really good. I wish I could give you criticism that is more helpful but I don't have the knowledge to say what is right or wrong. It looks great to me anyway, love to see more.

    There will be much, much more :)
    lettering's getting much better. your ovals run a little tight in the corners.

    you can try doing this just slightly to your ovals to give more room without adding a bunch of unwanted white space.

    That's exactly what I was looking for! I was going crazy trying to make the text fit better, but it wasn't working. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Mace1370 on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • DeeLockDeeLock Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    The pure black of the speech bubbles is bugging me...

    There are no pure blacks anywhere else on the pages and the speech bubbles look extremely tacked on rather than looking like they belong.

    DeeLock on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I just updated the bubbles to have rounded corners. I still think a few corners are tight and I'll work more on them later, but I think it's an improvement.

    Dee, should I border the bubbles with a gray? Other than that, I'm not sure what I could do to make them meld in more.

    Mace1370 on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Page 5 is up. Let us know what you think!

    2009-12-01-page5.jpg

    Mace1370 on
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I definately prefer the additional contrast you've added on this one. It gives your forms have a lot more weight.

    Mustang on
  • MBirkhoferMBirkhofer Registered User
    edited December 2009
    Mustang wrote: »
    I definately prefer the additional contrast you've added on this one. It gives your forms have a lot more weight.

    Yes. This.

    Great page!

    MBirkhofer on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2009
    Your bald guy is looking really static / robotic in those frames. The 4th for example: arm is just too straight. It makes sense if his arm is literally outstretched and he is holding the blade to the dudes back, but if he really just walloped him a mighty swinging blow (as the speed lines suggest) there should be a lot more "swing" in that arm. I think if you get the right look in the body, you won't need speed lines to convey the movement.

    His head in the other frames also looks weird, in that it widens along both sides as it goes from the face to the ears. Now maybe he's just a guy with a weird head and I'm too conditioned to seeing models/actors in media, but it does stand out a bit.

    I don't like any of his poses either. The first one looks so unnatural; I think it's that he doesn't really seem to have any one line of direction in his movement. Like, it looks like each piece of his body is trying to do something active, but they are not coordinating together. The second one of him is just flat. The hand planes are parallel to the camera, and the joint angles aren't giving off any movement; he looks to be posing. I just noticed now that he is supposed to have just delt a blow to the guys face... There is nothing in baldy that indicates this.

    In the last frame you can get away with the pose look because he does indeed appear to be posing. ;D

    Beyond all that, I enjoy the contrast like the others. It's weird to me that you pulled off some nice movement with green fella but were unable to do the same for bald dude. I would suggest finding a solitary place and acting out some of these sword attacks, or watching some ninjas to get an idea of what the body looks like while doing some of these things, particularly focused on what makes the body look dynamic and conveys the motion, even in a still.

    If you have to go slightly over the top, I think that's preferred to looking static and undefined. Besides, with fictional stills, you have the luxury of choosing any point in the action to convey, if it's slightly before or after the literal situation but conveys the action all the better, IMO go with it.

    Shiboe on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    New page. Let us know what you think.

    2009-12-15-page6.jpg

    Mace1370 on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2015
    .

    Kendeathwalker on
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