All we get is scouts whining (now), I know why they are but the Sandman was the completely wrong way of going about things. Absolutely NOBODY enjoys dieing with little to no control of their character *unless its L4D!* and I have no idea why Valve would even put such a option into the game, it looks fine for ubers but other then that its either a free kill or completely useless.
The Cow King on
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ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Useless novelty item crap.
And that is coming from a scout.
edit: the bat is meant for bonking. It is a melee weapon. Why would you take away the melee aspect of the weapon and give it some stupid effect? I would have much preferred a bat that had increased damage with a slower swing, or vice versa. Or maybe some crits or something. I wanted a new bat not some half-baked cheap gimmick that is now effectively useless thanks to our lovely playerbase.
All we get is scouts whining (now), I know why they are but the Sandman was the completely wrong way of going about things. Absolutely NOBODY enjoys dieing with little to no control of their character *unless its L4D!* and I have no idea why Valve would even put such a option into the game, it looks fine for ubers but other then that its either a free kill or completely useless.
Nobody enjoys dying at all. Getting beaned by a lucky baseball made no difference in my mind, because at least I couldn't say "Well... I fucked up". I don't know... I ditched the Sandman quickly because I found it more or less useless unless you happened to be there for an uber or wanted a free kill now and again. It was already a novelty item and now it's just stupid. Scattergun/bat is still the most powerful combo.
The nerf doesn't effect me, but every one of these knee-jerk reaction cry fests just bothers me. Adapt and shut up.
So I logged in on a friend's accout and it updated his game. I saw that nerf to the sandman and just sighed. I don't use the sandman because I refuse to let go of double jump. The stun has its uses but it only truly shines when you incorporate it with another weapon, or preferably another team mate. Now it is useless novelty crap. Also, that bat makes the worst fucking sound in the known universe.
Fuck stupid class packs this shit is ruining the game.
Also Zek anyone can play scout on Dustbowl it isn't that hard although attacking is harder opposed to defending.
Sure you can but you'll be the least useful member of your team, fixing that was the goal of the update in the first place.
Nah that's a very negative outlook. Just play the game and have fun. If your team has 5 scouts on DB and you're attacking I can see why you might get upset, but I always do alright attacking on the first two points. Point three of course its silly to be a scout.
Also I don't think the goal of the update was to make the scout more useful. If it was they missed it by a very, very long shot.
edit: the bat is meant for bonking. It is a melee weapon. Why would you take away the melee aspect of the weapon and give it some stupid effect? I would have much preferred a bat that had increased damage with a slower swing, or vice versa. Or maybe some crits or something. I wanted a new bat not some half-baked cheap gimmick that is now effectively useless thanks to our lovely playerbase.
The reason they did it with the bat was because they wanted to give the Scout a major unlock separate from the pistol/scattergun that would make them more useful in the linear spamfest maps. Notice that they didn't even change the melee weapon, they simply used the slot to implement the tradeoff between double jump and long distance stun. I think it was a great idea since melee unlocks are usually pretty trivial, they just did it in a way that's too frustrating to other players and then they ruined it so it sucks(and is still frustrating).
Zek on
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I don't know, I liked the idea of giving the scout some utility (stun & pushback). Though it's not removed so I guess I don't mind the nerf.
Maybe it's just that you're all a bunch of cry-babies that end up getting it nerfed because you can't stand losing at an internet vidyagame. Seriously, the TF2 community reminds me of the WoW balance obsession.
I keep trying to point out to everyone that Valve deliberately put in things too powerful to start with and nerf down to balance. That is their policy. So I don't know why people're acting like it was probably fine, because it probably wasn't.
So your saying the FaN and juice are overpowered too?
So your saying the FaN and juice are overpowered too?
Because uh, feels opposite to me.
Morkath, brah, you should know by now that anything that messes with Flippy's aiming or gameplay in general is OP. Demos, Spies, Scouts, tyrannus, penis.
So your saying the FaN and juice are overpowered too?
Because uh, feels opposite to me.
Morkath, brah, you should know by now that anything that messes with Flippy's aiming or gameplay in general is OP. Demos, Spies, Scouts, tyrannus, penis.
Touche.
I can't find the dev quote about valve not wanting to remove player control, but that's no suprise considering it was several years ago on an immensely popular game. And I am not going to shift through several hundred google pages to find it.
I did however find several other references to it on other forums, so obviously it did exist since there are a good majority of people who remember it.
Morkath on
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
I keep trying to point out to everyone that Valve deliberately put in things too powerful to start with and nerf down to balance. That is their policy. So I don't know why people're acting like it was probably fine, because it probably wasn't.
So your saying the FaN and juice are overpowered too?
Because uh, feels opposite to me.
FAN not so much.
Juice? Well you can completely distract engineer sentries and absorb shittons amount of damage with it.
So your saying the FaN and juice are overpowered too?
Because uh, feels opposite to me.
Morkath, brah, you should know by now that anything that messes with Flippy's aiming or gameplay in general is OP. Demos, Spies, Scouts, tyrannus, penis.
Touche.
I can't find the dev quote about valve not wanting to remove player control, but that's no suprise considering it was several years ago on an immensely popular game. And I am not going to shift through several hundred google pages to find it.
I did however find several other references to it on other forums, so obviously it did exist since there are a good majority of people who remember it.
The game is designed by a large group of people who have gained years of experience tweaking and balancing the system -- and one thing one guy said one time is somehow supposed to be like the Prime Directive.
Forumites get downright lawyerly when their argument amounts to 'I don't like'. Doesn't make it a good argument.
Hockey Johnston on
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Goose!That's me, honeyShow me the way home, honeyRegistered Userregular
Maybe it's just that you're all a bunch of cry-babies that end up getting it nerfed because you can't stand losing at an internet vidyagame. Seriously, the TF2 community reminds me of the WoW balance obsession.
hahaha so good
This is so good because its true. I might complain about shit, but I don't go all OMG OVERPOWERED except in jest.
So your saying the FaN and juice are overpowered too?
Because uh, feels opposite to me.
Morkath, brah, you should know by now that anything that messes with Flippy's aiming or gameplay in general is OP. Demos, Spies, Scouts, tyrannus, penis.
Touche.
I can't find the dev quote about valve not wanting to remove player control, but that's no suprise considering it was several years ago on an immensely popular game. And I am not going to shift through several hundred google pages to find it.
I did however find several other references to it on other forums, so obviously it did exist since there are a good majority of people who remember it.
The game is designed by a large group of people who have gained years of experience tweaking and balancing the system -- and one thing one guy said one time is somehow supposed to be like the Prime Directive.
Forumites get downright lawyerly when their argument amounts to 'I don't like'. Doesn't make it a good argument.
It wasn't just "something one guy said", it was one of their main designers if not the lead, it was mentioned as it was one of their prime directives when designing the game, and it shaped all the initial equipment. It is also the reason the spy lost his tranq gun.
I keep trying to point out to everyone that Valve deliberately put in things too powerful to start with and nerf down to balance. That is their policy. So I don't know why people're acting like it was probably fine, because it probably wasn't.
So your saying the FaN and juice are overpowered too?
It wasn't just "something one guy said", it was one of their main designers if not the lead, it was mentioned as it was one of their prime directives when designing the game, and it shaped all the initial equipment. It is also the reason the spy lost his tranq gun.
Well obviously the same smart people came to the conclusion that whoever said that was making too broad a statement. If you believed them then, believe them now. In my experience, they've always known better than the community loud mouths.
I mean, I lose control when I'm being shot by multiple sentries. Should that also not be allowed? The whole argument is silly.
It wasn't just "something one guy said", it was one of their main designers if not the lead, it was mentioned as it was one of their prime directives when designing the game, and it shaped all the initial equipment. It is also the reason the spy lost his tranq gun.
Well obviously the same smart people came to the conclusion that whoever said that was making too broad a statement. If you believed them then, believe them now. In my experience, they've always known better than the community loud mouths.
I mean, I lose control when I'm being shot by multiple sentries. Should that also not be allowed? The whole argument is silly.
They know so much better that they have already had to nerf it to help with the tremendous bitching.
If you really think that's what happened, feel free. But it's just sorta nonsensical to think that they're reacting to the angry fanbase.
There's a stun time. They did their best figuring out the sweet spot (either too short or too long), knowing full well that the first try probably wouldn't be exactly perfect. That's a million miles away from the way you describe it.
/edit: i.e. if you think tremendous bitching means anything -- hahahahahahahah!
yeah you can only get a limited feel for changes in a game when you have a couple dozen playtesters. once it goes live to the thousands of people playing it who can think up tons of uses then you get a better idea of what it can do.
I can't find the dev quote about valve not wanting to remove player control, but that's no suprise considering it was several years ago on an immensely popular game. And I am not going to shift through several hundred google pages to find it.
I did however find several other references to it on other forums, so obviously it did exist since there are a good majority of people who remember it.
I remember the official forums had a topic asking for a direct quote about that statement. No one could find it. Interesting that a quote about a popular can't be found on the Internet, the great and wonderful archival tool.
Besides, you lose control in a lot more situations than the sandman. It's a silly thing to say.
Posts
And that is coming from a scout.
edit: the bat is meant for bonking. It is a melee weapon. Why would you take away the melee aspect of the weapon and give it some stupid effect? I would have much preferred a bat that had increased damage with a slower swing, or vice versa. Or maybe some crits or something. I wanted a new bat not some half-baked cheap gimmick that is now effectively useless thanks to our lovely playerbase.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Mmmhmm.
I still want it though. Just for Hydro.
you're joking about that last bit right
Shogun Streams Vidya
Nobody enjoys dying at all. Getting beaned by a lucky baseball made no difference in my mind, because at least I couldn't say "Well... I fucked up". I don't know... I ditched the Sandman quickly because I found it more or less useless unless you happened to be there for an uber or wanted a free kill now and again. It was already a novelty item and now it's just stupid. Scattergun/bat is still the most powerful combo.
The nerf doesn't effect me, but every one of these knee-jerk reaction cry fests just bothers me. Adapt and shut up.
no, they'd panic when someone came to defend me and miss.
oh well that makes slightly more sense. I thought it was you vs. scout and scout would stun you, get point blank, and then miss.
Shogun Streams Vidya
That actually happened to me in one of the first days of the patch. I also killed the scout after.
It absolutely was their goal:
http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2096
And yes, they did miss it by a long shot.
The reason they did it with the bat was because they wanted to give the Scout a major unlock separate from the pistol/scattergun that would make them more useful in the linear spamfest maps. Notice that they didn't even change the melee weapon, they simply used the slot to implement the tradeoff between double jump and long distance stun. I think it was a great idea since melee unlocks are usually pretty trivial, they just did it in a way that's too frustrating to other players and then they ruined it so it sucks(and is still frustrating).
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Steam, PSN, XBL, Xfire and everything else JamesDM
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
the best part is being a spy and then stabbing that scout taking his time planting the shots
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I guess he is all set... thanks for the offer at least.
Steam, PSN, XBL, Xfire and everything else JamesDM
that was called reloading you bloody moran
I bought the game stand alone on steam.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
So your saying the FaN and juice are overpowered too?
Because uh, feels opposite to me.
Touche.
I can't find the dev quote about valve not wanting to remove player control, but that's no suprise considering it was several years ago on an immensely popular game. And I am not going to shift through several hundred google pages to find it.
I did however find several other references to it on other forums, so obviously it did exist since there are a good majority of people who remember it.
FAN not so much.
Juice? Well you can completely distract engineer sentries and absorb shittons amount of damage with it.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
The game is designed by a large group of people who have gained years of experience tweaking and balancing the system -- and one thing one guy said one time is somehow supposed to be like the Prime Directive.
Forumites get downright lawyerly when their argument amounts to 'I don't like'. Doesn't make it a good argument.
This is so good because its true. I might complain about shit, but I don't go all OMG OVERPOWERED except in jest.
Taste the sad, Michael.
It wasn't just "something one guy said", it was one of their main designers if not the lead, it was mentioned as it was one of their prime directives when designing the game, and it shaped all the initial equipment. It is also the reason the spy lost his tranq gun.
I'm in no mood for this sort of shit.
Nor was I referring to anything but the sandman in the first place.
Well obviously the same smart people came to the conclusion that whoever said that was making too broad a statement. If you believed them then, believe them now. In my experience, they've always known better than the community loud mouths.
I mean, I lose control when I'm being shot by multiple sentries. Should that also not be allowed? The whole argument is silly.
Guess it's back to FAN + regular bat for triple jump fun
They know so much better that they have already had to nerf it to help with the tremendous bitching.
There's a stun time. They did their best figuring out the sweet spot (either too short or too long), knowing full well that the first try probably wouldn't be exactly perfect. That's a million miles away from the way you describe it.
/edit: i.e. if you think tremendous bitching means anything -- hahahahahahahah!
I remember the official forums had a topic asking for a direct quote about that statement. No one could find it. Interesting that a quote about a popular can't be found on the Internet, the great and wonderful archival tool.
Besides, you lose control in a lot more situations than the sandman. It's a silly thing to say.