Hey Evander, how bout you stop trolling this thread?
o_O
How am I trolling this thread? I am a HUGE Zune fan. I simply asked you a question, and then you threw a tantrum.
I don't understand the point of having a sound recorder in there either (it there one? I must have missed that line.), to be quite honest. The only good reason for one that I could think of would be voice controls, but voice recognition technology simply hasn't reached the point yet where it needs to be before that is a good idea in settings like public transportation.
For some reason, y'all are acting like I'm crazy for questioning why one would want random things shoehorned in the device, but I'm entirely serious. I think that convergent devices are, overall, a waste. Asside from a few exceptions (such as radio alarm clocks) they have almost no benefit, yet they end up having a bunch of downsides. One of the thngs that I've likes about the Zune line is that it hasn't gone for forced convergence: everything that my Zune does feels like a natural progression of the device. There's no camera or cellular radio that MSoft has shoe-horned in, just because they think that the excitement over it will sell a few more units.
Personally, I want R&D focused on making the device better (adding more storage would be nice) rather than shoehorning in completely unrelated devices. Not to mention that the more functions added, the more the device ends up costing. Haven't we learned anything from the PS3 launch, where consumers showed that they didn't really care to play for the Bluiray drive inside fo the PS3 just to play PS3 games?
Honestly, I wish my Zune had a sound recorder for classes. Sooo many times I wish I had bought a digital recorder at some point during my college life, but I never did. If it was integrated with the Zune it would have been wonderful. Just turn it on and it's already on my device so I can listen to it whenever and wherever.
Honestly, I wish my Zune had a sound recorder for classes. Sooo many times I wish I had bought a digital recorder at some point during my college life, but I never did. If it was integrated with the Zune it would have been wonderful. Just turn it on and it's already on my device so I can listen to it whenever and wherever.
plenty of phones already have that feature, though, and there are also plenty of cheap digital recorders out there.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd prefer the Zune team to focus on adding features that tie in to the other functions of the device itself, rather than just go the iPod route, and try to do everything. I want my Zune to be a Zune, not an iPod (if that's what I had wanted, I'd have bought one of those instead.)
Convergent devices mean that you can't upgrade one thing without having to buy an all new device. I'd rather be able to buy a new phone, or a new camera, or a new mp3 player, without being forced to upgrade the other two along side it.
We can't keep the iPod Touch 16GB in stock at $295. If MS brings it in in the $250 range, I don't think they'll have a problem moving them.
Except that price debuted last year. I was pretty bitter about it since I didn't do the research and bought an 8GB for that price. Stupid.
Given the current trend, we could see the third generation of Touch give 32GB for the same $300. That would really hurt the Zune HD when you consider the brand disadvantage it has.
And I think something needs to clarified: the iPod Touch currently doesn't have any sort of camera, so I don't see why people think the Zune HD needs to have one. Unless the Zune is also going to compete with the iPhone.
True, but people want convergent devices more and more. Look at the iPhone. People buy it like crazy because they can replace their iPod, phone, camera, GPS, etc with it. One of the biggest selling points is the app store, so you can turn your phone/iPod into whatever you want.
It stinks for us, who want discrete and better products, rather than a hodge-podge of tech, but it's what the public wants now. They want 1 device that can do it all, rather than look like a geek carrying a phone, camera, pmp, and pda.
Now, I don't mind some convergence, especially when it's done right and doesn't interfere with the other functions of a device. I won't combine my pmp with my phone, because I may want one or the other, or be able to use both at the same time. But if I can add some games or surf the internet or pull my e-mail on my phone or pmp, then that's fine because it's already halfway there with buttons and a screen (or touch screen). Those features won't interfere with the main feature of the device.
Cameras are always iffy because it's nice to always have a camera on you, but the pictures are generally terrible, and my phone already has a camera on it anyway, so why do I need two?
That's why I got the new iPhone last week as I was tired of lugging tons of expensive shit in my pockets. But I think there's still a very large audience for stuff that does a few things real well. Shit, I've used my iPhone's camera less than my DSi's.
True, but people want convergent devices more and more. Look at the iPhone. People buy it like crazy because they can replace their iPod, phone, camera, GPS, etc with it. One of the biggest selling points is the app store, so you can turn your phone/iPod into whatever you want.
Except that there's no real sign that this is what people want.
If the public really wanted convergent devices, rather than just wanting whatever the newest iPod is, then it would be ALL convergent devices getting really popular, not just iPhones.
Don't get me wrong, there is a subset of the market that really cares about carrying as few devices as possible, but it's a niche. The iPod popularity has to do with brand and marketing, not with offering what the people want.
There's a great piece on how convergent devices aren't actually all that great that I wish I could pull up right now. Basically, it says that convergent devices only succeed when the convergence creates a brand new feature that neither device had previously (like waking up to music with a radio alarm clock) and even then, the convergent device never really replaces the devices that it has converged.
Cameras are always iffy because it's nice to always have a camera on you, but the pictures are generally terrible, and my phone already has a camera on it anyway, so why do I need two?
I come from a photography background (I come from MANY backgrounds. I have a very interesting resume) and I own a 35mm SLR and a 4 megapixel Kodak digital camera with 10x optical zoom (I don't understand the need for more than 4 or 5 MPs, as long as you have a decent optical zoom).
I use my cell phone camera more than either of the two. Not because it is better, but because it is there. THAT is the reason for the success of cellphone cameras. It's always on you, and good for a quick snapshot. They aren't used for "important" photos, just for convenient ones.
Honestly, I imagine the lack of a camera in the iPod Touch is because Apple understands that people already have cellphones. If they add one in the future, it would likely be more for the purpose of adding a control feature for apps that already work on the iphone, moreso than because they think people want to take photos with their iPod.
True points. I think though, as we have seen technology grow, it's easier for convergent devices to succeed than they did in the past. Before, to really make a convergent device, it would do nothing well, and simply be mediocre. Now, it seems that we are able to make a device that does many things well, and a few mediocre. Even the Zune has really reworked putting radio receivers into pmps where it used to be a low-end device spec, it's in the Zune and done really well. Now the Zune HD has an HD radio, which I find awesome, and it is probably very nice. It will be interesting to see what else starts to get merged.
I definitely understand the camera point. I have a nice DSLR and while it takes EXCELLENT shots, I rarely carry it with me simply because of the size. It's just not convenient to carry everywhere I go, and then the cell phone camera gets used. I do wish I had it more often, as I kick myself for not getting many awesome pictures that I should have.
I have one of these in my drawer, but you are right, only one.
It will definitely be interesting to watch the next few years and beyond, won't it? See how the technology develops with OLED, touch screens, etc. See if the iPod brand continues to be #1 or if something will actually outsell or at least split the market with it.
I think some convergence is more important that others. Cell phone-camera-GPS, I think is a solid convergence. The media player, in my opinion, never is as good as something that's dedicated to it. The iPhone is a different story, because it's more of a Media player with phone attached than Phone with Media player attached.
In any case, only a few months left before it comes out, so I'm sure we'll be hearing more rumblings about it.
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I think some convergence is more important that others. Cell phone-camera-GPS, I think is a solid convergence. The media player, in my opinion, never is as good as something that's dedicated to it. The iPhone is a different story, because it's more of a Media player with phone attached than Phone with Media player attached.
In any case, only a few months left before it comes out, so I'm sure we'll be hearing more rumblings about it.
I have an HTC Touch Pro, so I've got a 3.2 mega pixel camera in there, as well as google maps. I even keep a couple of songs on there that I might want to play in a pinch.
I still prefer using a Garmin when I am actually planning a trip, or my minolta if I'm going out to take serious photoos, or my Zune if I'm listening to music/podcasts.
There's a convenience level to being able to aproximate someting on the device that is ALWAYS in my pocket, but dedicated devices are always going to be better.
A radio alarm clock, as popular as they are, is rarely a person's only radio, or their only clock.
I think that as the technology market matures, we'll see convergent devices taking a back seat again.
A lot of it, in my opinion, is novelty. I mean, who doesn't think a spork is neat? How many people have a silverware drawer full of them, though?
I agree. Computers shouldn't play movies. That's for TVs, silly!
And Videogames? That's why you have a Playstation!
In fact, why do computers have speakers at all? They should be for computing things!
Ok, ridiculousness over, here's my rule of convergence devices, perhaps we can find a halfway: Convergence devices are only useful and recommended when the interfaces can be shared, components can be shared, and the final result does at least its main functions competently.
For instance, a while back -- this is several years ago, when MP3 players were just getting popular -- Kodak released a device that was a combo MP3 player/Camera. Except, the only thing that was shared internally within the device was the LCD screen and the battery. The controls were different, the chips on the inside were different (one for MP3 decoding, one for taking pictures), and essentially it was pretty much like they had glued two devices together, and let them both drain power from the same battery.
Needless to say, THIS IS DUMB.
A cameraphone, on the other hand, is a wonderful convergence device. Why? Because it already runs a CPU with a flexible software side. The battery is already there. The memory is already there. The buttons are well-enough suited to be shared. 9/10 components can be shared between both "halves" of the device. And features can be added from one to enrich the other --- adding pictures of contacts to your address book, for instance, or sending picture text messages. It works.
Alright? Now can we work from here?
Your phone already tracks the time. It already stays on 24/7. It already has a loud speaker (ringer). Therefore, using it as an alarm clock is another example of perfect convergence.
And from here, we work forward -- calculators are another example of perfect convergence. Do you really NEED a calculator in your cellphone? 99% of the time, no. But it adds no weight, no added hardware, and very little software/memory resources were needed to add it in. So why not?
And so on, and so forth. The trick is only in realizing when adding a feature is too much of a stretch, when you're not using the resources you already have and merely extending them for another purpose.
But that "blurs the line between experiencing content and originating content." line is bullshit.
How reliable are the battery indicators on the Zune? Mine just dropped from 3/4 full to turning off with a zero charge warning.
Mine does the same thing to me. I don't know why, how, or what I can do to try and fix it. I tried charging it, then resetting it, and draining it then charging it, etc. It's REALLY annoying, but I can usually charge it up somehow so I haven't sent it in yet.
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spookymuffin( ° ʖ ° )Puyallup WA Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
What model Zunes are you talking about with the battery problem?
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
My Zune 30g model decided last night to delete all the content it had on it because of an "Unexpected error." As if there were any other kind. Now, the Zune program on my computer won't recognize it to update it. Mostly.
Occassionally, it will try to synch, but tells me there is too much to synch to it, because it is adding an option fo content from "Other computers" eqaul to around 250 g. When I uncheck that option, it goes back down to the normal 13 g I normally have and tries again, only it gives me the same message because somehow, the "Other computers" option is checked again.
How reliable are the battery indicators on the Zune? Mine just dropped from 3/4 full to turning off with a zero charge warning.
Mine does the same thing to me. I don't know why, how, or what I can do to try and fix it. I tried charging it, then resetting it, and draining it then charging it, etc. It's REALLY annoying, but I can usually charge it up somehow so I haven't sent it in yet.
This is the exact reason I sent my Zune16 in. Mine would completely die and not respond until I left it for a day or two. I tried the battery recalibration steps twice, to no avail.
It made it to the MS repair center in TX end of last week. I'll let you know what happens.
Not to sound like too much of an apologist, but battery trouble seem like part of the regular course for small, portable devices.
I've avoided them by constantly returning my Zune 80 to its dock to recharge. The longest I've gone without recharging it is probably somewhere around the line of 6 hours of playtime, maybe more. I am somewhat fearful that I've 'messed up' the battery. Need to let it bleed out and recharge again.
Of course, if you've got a bad battery, you've got a bad battery. Replacing it is an option, if you're willing to get your hands dirty....
My Zune rarely goes out of my house. With my ipod, it was almost always charging while I listened to it. But with the Zune I figured hey, probably 20 hours of battery life off a full charge, I can go slightly crazy and not plug it in every time I listen to it. Needless to say, quite surprised the charge went from almost full to zero after only 2-4 hours of play.
Not to sound like too much of an apologist, but battery trouble seem like part of the regular course for small, portable devices.
I've avoided them by constantly returning my Zune 80 to its dock to recharge. The longest I've gone without recharging it is probably somewhere around the line of 6 hours of playtime, maybe more. I am somewhat fearful that I've 'messed up' the battery. Need to let it bleed out and recharge again.
Of course, if you've got a bad battery, you've got a bad battery. Replacing it is an option, if you're willing to get your hands dirty....
The problem with expecting battery problems, is that you don't expect them in under 6 months.. Which is how long I had my Zune before I noticed it becoming a problem. Sure, if my Zune was almost 2 years old I would understand, but under 6 months? eh.. Anyway, I'm interested to see what MS does about Smallmouth's, since mine may just be a bad battery.
My iPod 60GB went almost 3 years without dropping too much of its battery.
My Zune rarely goes out of my house. With my ipod, it was almost always charging while I listened to it. But with the Zune I figured hey, probably 20 hours of battery life off a full charge, I can go slightly crazy and not plug it in every time I listen to it. Needless to say, quite surprised the charge went from almost full to zero after only 2-4 hours of play.
That's... huh.
I can usually get between 2-4 hours a day, for two to four days on mine. 4 gig model.
Still goes straight from half to dead on the display, though.
Not to sound like too much of an apologist, but battery trouble seem like part of the regular course for small, portable devices.
I've avoided them by constantly returning my Zune 80 to its dock to recharge. The longest I've gone without recharging it is probably somewhere around the line of 6 hours of playtime, maybe more. I am somewhat fearful that I've 'messed up' the battery. Need to let it bleed out and recharge again.
Of course, if you've got a bad battery, you've got a bad battery. Replacing it is an option, if you're willing to get your hands dirty....
I imagine mine has a bad battery. I only had my Zune two weeks before I sent it in. I had problems with it from the start.
Li-ion batteries are pretty awful with battery death, I've found. I'm rather surprised my 30 hasn't completely kicked it. The battery is mostly dead after a 7 hour work day, but that's to be expected with a years-old li-ion. Considering the use it's gotten, I'd expect the life to be down in the 3-4 hour range.
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spookymuffin( ° ʖ ° )Puyallup WA Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
I maybe use mine for an hour a day (if that), and I set it in the dock once a week to sync and charge. I've had it since November, and I haven't seen any battery problems yet.
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PSN: MegaSpooky // 3DS: 3797-6276-7138 Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
So the Zune is able to play WMA lossless, am I able to convert .flac to .wmal using the Zune player? I'm guessing that I can't, so any programs that would be able to do that?
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This is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.
Might as well take the sound recorder off, since it blurs the line between experiencing content and originating content.
You're totally choosing the most random bullshit arbitrary place to draw the line, and I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to know it.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
o_O
How am I trolling this thread? I am a HUGE Zune fan. I simply asked you a question, and then you threw a tantrum.
I don't understand the point of having a sound recorder in there either (it there one? I must have missed that line.), to be quite honest. The only good reason for one that I could think of would be voice controls, but voice recognition technology simply hasn't reached the point yet where it needs to be before that is a good idea in settings like public transportation.
For some reason, y'all are acting like I'm crazy for questioning why one would want random things shoehorned in the device, but I'm entirely serious. I think that convergent devices are, overall, a waste. Asside from a few exceptions (such as radio alarm clocks) they have almost no benefit, yet they end up having a bunch of downsides. One of the thngs that I've likes about the Zune line is that it hasn't gone for forced convergence: everything that my Zune does feels like a natural progression of the device. There's no camera or cellular radio that MSoft has shoe-horned in, just because they think that the excitement over it will sell a few more units.
Personally, I want R&D focused on making the device better (adding more storage would be nice) rather than shoehorning in completely unrelated devices. Not to mention that the more functions added, the more the device ends up costing. Haven't we learned anything from the PS3 launch, where consumers showed that they didn't really care to play for the Bluiray drive inside fo the PS3 just to play PS3 games?
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plenty of phones already have that feature, though, and there are also plenty of cheap digital recorders out there.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd prefer the Zune team to focus on adding features that tie in to the other functions of the device itself, rather than just go the iPod route, and try to do everything. I want my Zune to be a Zune, not an iPod (if that's what I had wanted, I'd have bought one of those instead.)
Convergent devices mean that you can't upgrade one thing without having to buy an all new device. I'd rather be able to buy a new phone, or a new camera, or a new mp3 player, without being forced to upgrade the other two along side it.
Given the current trend, we could see the third generation of Touch give 32GB for the same $300. That would really hurt the Zune HD when you consider the brand disadvantage it has.
It stinks for us, who want discrete and better products, rather than a hodge-podge of tech, but it's what the public wants now. They want 1 device that can do it all, rather than look like a geek carrying a phone, camera, pmp, and pda.
Now, I don't mind some convergence, especially when it's done right and doesn't interfere with the other functions of a device. I won't combine my pmp with my phone, because I may want one or the other, or be able to use both at the same time. But if I can add some games or surf the internet or pull my e-mail on my phone or pmp, then that's fine because it's already halfway there with buttons and a screen (or touch screen). Those features won't interfere with the main feature of the device.
Cameras are always iffy because it's nice to always have a camera on you, but the pictures are generally terrible, and my phone already has a camera on it anyway, so why do I need two?
Except that there's no real sign that this is what people want.
If the public really wanted convergent devices, rather than just wanting whatever the newest iPod is, then it would be ALL convergent devices getting really popular, not just iPhones.
Don't get me wrong, there is a subset of the market that really cares about carrying as few devices as possible, but it's a niche. The iPod popularity has to do with brand and marketing, not with offering what the people want.
There's a great piece on how convergent devices aren't actually all that great that I wish I could pull up right now. Basically, it says that convergent devices only succeed when the convergence creates a brand new feature that neither device had previously (like waking up to music with a radio alarm clock) and even then, the convergent device never really replaces the devices that it has converged.
I come from a photography background (I come from MANY backgrounds. I have a very interesting resume) and I own a 35mm SLR and a 4 megapixel Kodak digital camera with 10x optical zoom (I don't understand the need for more than 4 or 5 MPs, as long as you have a decent optical zoom).
I use my cell phone camera more than either of the two. Not because it is better, but because it is there. THAT is the reason for the success of cellphone cameras. It's always on you, and good for a quick snapshot. They aren't used for "important" photos, just for convenient ones.
Honestly, I imagine the lack of a camera in the iPod Touch is because Apple understands that people already have cellphones. If they add one in the future, it would likely be more for the purpose of adding a control feature for apps that already work on the iphone, moreso than because they think people want to take photos with their iPod.
I definitely understand the camera point. I have a nice DSLR and while it takes EXCELLENT shots, I rarely carry it with me simply because of the size. It's just not convenient to carry everywhere I go, and then the cell phone camera gets used. I do wish I had it more often, as I kick myself for not getting many awesome pictures that I should have.
A lot of it, in my opinion, is novelty. I mean, who doesn't think a spork is neat? How many people have a silverware drawer full of them, though?
It will definitely be interesting to watch the next few years and beyond, won't it? See how the technology develops with OLED, touch screens, etc. See if the iPod brand continues to be #1 or if something will actually outsell or at least split the market with it.
In any case, only a few months left before it comes out, so I'm sure we'll be hearing more rumblings about it.
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Mine is red.
I have an HTC Touch Pro, so I've got a 3.2 mega pixel camera in there, as well as google maps. I even keep a couple of songs on there that I might want to play in a pinch.
I still prefer using a Garmin when I am actually planning a trip, or my minolta if I'm going out to take serious photoos, or my Zune if I'm listening to music/podcasts.
There's a convenience level to being able to aproximate someting on the device that is ALWAYS in my pocket, but dedicated devices are always going to be better.
A radio alarm clock, as popular as they are, is rarely a person's only radio, or their only clock.
I agree. Computers shouldn't play movies. That's for TVs, silly!
And Videogames? That's why you have a Playstation!
In fact, why do computers have speakers at all? They should be for computing things!
Ok, ridiculousness over, here's my rule of convergence devices, perhaps we can find a halfway: Convergence devices are only useful and recommended when the interfaces can be shared, components can be shared, and the final result does at least its main functions competently.
For instance, a while back -- this is several years ago, when MP3 players were just getting popular -- Kodak released a device that was a combo MP3 player/Camera. Except, the only thing that was shared internally within the device was the LCD screen and the battery. The controls were different, the chips on the inside were different (one for MP3 decoding, one for taking pictures), and essentially it was pretty much like they had glued two devices together, and let them both drain power from the same battery.
Needless to say, THIS IS DUMB.
A cameraphone, on the other hand, is a wonderful convergence device. Why? Because it already runs a CPU with a flexible software side. The battery is already there. The memory is already there. The buttons are well-enough suited to be shared. 9/10 components can be shared between both "halves" of the device. And features can be added from one to enrich the other --- adding pictures of contacts to your address book, for instance, or sending picture text messages. It works.
Alright? Now can we work from here?
Your phone already tracks the time. It already stays on 24/7. It already has a loud speaker (ringer). Therefore, using it as an alarm clock is another example of perfect convergence.
And from here, we work forward -- calculators are another example of perfect convergence. Do you really NEED a calculator in your cellphone? 99% of the time, no. But it adds no weight, no added hardware, and very little software/memory resources were needed to add it in. So why not?
And so on, and so forth. The trick is only in realizing when adding a feature is too much of a stretch, when you're not using the resources you already have and merely extending them for another purpose.
But that "blurs the line between experiencing content and originating content." line is bullshit.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
Mine does the same thing to me. I don't know why, how, or what I can do to try and fix it. I tried charging it, then resetting it, and draining it then charging it, etc. It's REALLY annoying, but I can usually charge it up somehow so I haven't sent it in yet.
Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
Occassionally, it will try to synch, but tells me there is too much to synch to it, because it is adding an option fo content from "Other computers" eqaul to around 250 g. When I uncheck that option, it goes back down to the normal 13 g I normally have and tries again, only it gives me the same message because somehow, the "Other computers" option is checked again.
Help.
This is the exact reason I sent my Zune16 in. Mine would completely die and not respond until I left it for a day or two. I tried the battery recalibration steps twice, to no avail.
It made it to the MS repair center in TX end of last week. I'll let you know what happens.
My 8 gig does it all the time. It's the only thing I genuinely hate about the Zune.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Let us know how it works out Smallmouth. I have a few more months of warranty left (I think? I need to check) so if it works then I'll send mine in.
Should state that mine is a 120 as well.
I've avoided them by constantly returning my Zune 80 to its dock to recharge. The longest I've gone without recharging it is probably somewhere around the line of 6 hours of playtime, maybe more. I am somewhat fearful that I've 'messed up' the battery. Need to let it bleed out and recharge again.
Of course, if you've got a bad battery, you've got a bad battery. Replacing it is an option, if you're willing to get your hands dirty....
The problem with expecting battery problems, is that you don't expect them in under 6 months.. Which is how long I had my Zune before I noticed it becoming a problem. Sure, if my Zune was almost 2 years old I would understand, but under 6 months? eh.. Anyway, I'm interested to see what MS does about Smallmouth's, since mine may just be a bad battery.
My iPod 60GB went almost 3 years without dropping too much of its battery.
That's... huh.
I can usually get between 2-4 hours a day, for two to four days on mine. 4 gig model.
Still goes straight from half to dead on the display, though.
That's a silly thing to say before you get even more ridiculous.
You're freaking out over a statement that I made that you are taking out of its context.
I imagine mine has a bad battery. I only had my Zune two weeks before I sent it in. I had problems with it from the start.
Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
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So, you can defragment a Zune without resetting it?