Does anyone else here really, really hate heroic sindragosa 25 man? I don't really enjoy wand dps With my guild, we only have 1 caster dps who doesn't get unchained, the rest of us wand
Switching from raiding Frost to FFB because, although I love me some Frost damage, I feel kind of bad about it now that I have Nibel and Reign of the Dead. I feel like I actually have to, you know, try now.
The FFB thread on EJ hasn't been updated since 3.2.2, and there are some obvious things like the glyph of improved scorch no longer being necessary (I use glyph of LB), but is the basic rotation still the same?
I ask because when practicing the rotation, the output feels very meh. Keep Scorch up > reapply Living Bomb when it's off > Hot Streak Pyro > FFB is still the way to go, right?
I was under the impression that it went Arcane > Fire/FFB > Frost.
And yeah no, I'm not super concerned about optimizing everything. I'm willing to take a 10% cut in damage these days if it means playing a spec I like as opposed to one I hate.
Not like it ever makes a different in normal mode.
Fire at 50 will pretty much level anything and everything, but Blizzard had a hardon for Fire Elementals from like 52-60. Frost has control but the damage kind of blows until Ice Lance/Deep Freeze.
Don't glyph for perma elemental once you can fly, if ever
You know, I used to think it was pretty bullshit, but in all honesty, it's not that big a deal. The perma elemental is still incredibly useful if you're spending more than a minute in any location, and will be recharged by the time you get to your next quest area anyway.
FFB was okay last night, but seems like it totally sucks if you have to change targets a lot.
Am I to extrapolate from the last couple posts that after you bring out the elemental, if you mount up, he goes away like all pets but you have to wait on the CD to bring him out again? He doesn't temp dismiss like a lock or hunter pet when glyphed? If so, that is bullshit. Once I get flying at level 60 I never stop mounting ever. Shit, I will mount up and fly to the next guy I need to kill even if it's about 60 yards away. I do not play around, and I do not waste any time.
Now my future Goblin Mage just got a little less exciting. =/
Am I to extrapolate from the last couple posts that after you bring out the elemental, if you mount up, he goes away like all pets but you have to wait on the CD to bring him out again? He doesn't temp dismiss like a lock or hunter pet when glyphed? If so, that is bullshit. Once I get flying at level 60 I never stop mounting ever. Shit, I will mount up and fly to the next guy I need to kill even if it's about 60 yards away. I do not play around, and I do not waste any time.
Now my future Goblin Mage just got a little less exciting. =/
He doesn't go into temp storage, but he doesn't dismiss, either. He stays out, and will move at your mount speed across the ground to follow you when you take off.
If you go too high, he'll unsummon.
If you don't, he more often than not will not aggro anything and will arrive with you at your destination.
Eww, that might actually be worse. Laaaame. I'll bet in Cata he ends up permanent via talent without the glyph and ends up being more like a normal pet.
Joshmvii on
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
They work pretty ok with a ground mount, but if you fly at any reasonable height or speed he'll unsummon.
It's extremely annoying when you're doing surgical strikes on quest objectives, and I find that the cooldown reduction talents+glyph make for a much better experience. Plus you get to keep his frost nova.
I've never liked the idea of glyphing for permament water elemental in any spec other than a raiding one. The emergency extra Frost Nova is just too useful.
Nobody on
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Yeah, it's really meant for raiding.
i.e. it's meant to be not used ever.
I've used the endless water glyph for leveling just fine. The 2.4 minute cooldown isn't that long and starts as soon as you summon one, and there's always Cold Snap as an emergency. Besides, most quests leave me in the same relative area for at least a couple minutes. He's fine at keeping up for short flights. I also use the Dipshit Finder while leveling, and the permanent water bolt turret brings more DPS for a dungeon run than any other glyph option I have.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
I touched up the thread a bit, if only to keep it at pace with the shaman thread I'm running. If there's any info about Cata, official or unofficial, I'll gladly edit it into the OP as needed (but unofficial info may go away, just a heads up).
Also, the talent section was wiped as it was horrible behind; from now on, you guys submit talent builds, and I'll note them there as follows:
(spec) (PvP or PvE) by (forumer)
Example: Fire PvE Build by Henroid
(that's just an underline mark, not a link, but you get the idea)
I always think of this fat like scene looking chick who opened up one of those musical greeting cards in Target and it played that song and then she started singing it to her cool friend. Not that I liked it before then but now I'm horrifically scarred.
I touched up the thread a bit, if only to keep it at pace with the shaman thread I'm running. If there's any info about Cata, official or unofficial, I'll gladly edit it into the OP as needed (but unofficial info may go away, just a heads up).
Also, the talent section was wiped as it was horrible behind; from now on, you guys submit talent builds, and I'll note them there as follows:
(spec) (PvP or PvE) by (forumer)
Example: Fire PvE Build by Henroid
(that's just an underline mark, not a link, but you get the idea)
Edit - PS, fuck the Timewarp.
I'll see if i can post a couple common PVE arcane and fire builds after i get home from work.
As for the section for resources, I'd suggest including the following mods:
Scorchio 2 -- It gives you timers for many mage buffs and debuffs. It tracks improved scorch, living bomb, winters chill, mirror images, hot streaks, and brain freezes. Allows you to easily see if improved shadowbolt is active in place of the improved scorch debuff. And also allows you to make sure there is a slowing debuff up on your target for your torment the weak talent.
Power Auras -- Very flexible mod which you can set up to alert you visibly and audibly when certain buffs or debuffs are on you or your target. Many mages find this mod useful in alerting them when hot streak or brain freeze procs. It can also be set up in various ways to track AB stacks.
LivingBombTracker -- Cool little mod for mages who cast living bomb with a mouseover macro. Displays a timer for the living bomb currently on the target you are mousing over.
TheTish on
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
Decent use of Mana, Crits, and all the CC you could possibly want with an "oh shit" button or two. Also, Mana/Frost Shield is nice for that "hahah I am raping your face and you do nothing!" effect.
Downside to frost is dungeons. You won't be doing random dungeons with "amazing" dps since Frost is mainly CC influenced damage. (crit on frozen, etc). You can also off-spec Arcane in 2 levels which is your dungeon DPS. 2 minute evocation? Yes please!
That all being said, I have not leveled a Mage in several months, and I actually hear that Fire is pulling ahead for dungeons, but my information might be rusty.
The LFD run I did today seemed to consist of having the druid tank snag a shitload of mobs, drop Frost Nova, CoC, Flamestrike, Blizzard. At that point everything was dead.
Right now questing feels slow as hell, but I'm sure that'll improve with gear.
The LFD run I did today seemed to consist of having the druid tank snag a shitload of mobs, drop Frost Nova, CoC, Flamestrike, Blizzard. At that point everything was dead.
Right now questing feels slow as hell, but I'm sure that'll improve with gear.
dont frost nova, they will turn around and hit anyone in range (ie you) if the tank is not right next to them
format on
You don't know if I am joking or not.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Frost is fine for dungeons if you're good. As frost with the perma-elemental glyph, I've been #1 damage in probably 90% of my runs that don't involve someone 3 or more levels higher than me. That 10% was usually when there was a competent ret paladin or something, which of course do incredibly good on the meters in dungeons due to all their front-loading and cleave. Hell, in my mage's final leveling dungeon run (which was yesterday, incidentally), I was the only level 79 in Utgarde Pinnacle. The tank and the other two DPS were 80s, and I still ended up as #1 by quite a bit. Granted, the other two DPS were crappy, but I was still doing more damage than your typical, lousy 4th place DPS in a heroic dungeon.
You also come with a little more survivability since you can use Ice Barrier on fights where you'll take unavoidable damage. Finally, the healer will appreciate your replenishment (whether he's aware of it or not) more than anyone will appreciate arcane/fire's group buffs.
So Frost is great and I do a ton of AoE and single-target damage in randoms and everything, but I'm tempted to try one of the other two trees for levelling, just so see how they feel. My mage alt will be 64 in two levels, which is when I get Arcane Burst, and I'm thinking that may be the best time to try out Arcane.
What's the rotation for an Arcane mage, though? From YouTube videos, it looks like it's straight Arcane Burst spam, with Missiles only cast when some talent procs. Is this the ideal? Where does Arcane Barrage come in?
And are bosses immune to the whole Slow debuff, or just the snare part of it?
Arcane mages adjust rotation based on how much mana they want to use (and, it also changes if they have 2pc tier 10). While levelling, you either want to blast until you get a missile barrage proc then use it (more mana intensive, more DPS) -- or just blast a couple times then missile off the stack regardless of if you have missile barrage (less mana intensive, less DPS). Arcane Barrage is, in a raiding environment, pretty much something you only use while mobile.
So Frost is great and I do a ton of AoE and single-target damage in randoms and everything, but I'm tempted to try one of the other two trees for levelling, just so see how they feel. My mage alt will be 64 in two levels, which is when I get Arcane Burst, and I'm thinking that may be the best time to try out Arcane.
What's the rotation for an Arcane mage, though? From YouTube videos, it looks like it's straight Arcane Burst spam, with Missiles only cast when some talent procs. Is this the ideal? Where does Arcane Barrage come in?
And are bosses immune to the whole Slow debuff, or just the snare part of it?
Yep, ABx4 then AM, or ABx3 then AM if you're having mana problems the other way. You don't cast Arcane Barrage unless you have to move.
Also, forget about using slow. Torment the weak is triggered by attack speed debuffs, which should be up 100% of the time on a mob that is being tanked. Paladins, Druids, and DKs apply it just by doing their normal damage to a boss, and Warriors should have thunder clap on any boss as well.
Also, for levelling dungeons you will do the most damage by just popping arcane power/icy veins and spamming AB without any missiles at all. You shouldn't run OOM before they die in 12 seconds anyway, and you'll laugh at how much damage you do.
Well, I'm not high enough yet to get the juicy Arcane talents and keep Icy Veins.
How's mana regen look like in levelling gear (5 heirlooms, including trinkets)? 5-man buffed, I typically see ~130 mp5 while casting, specced full Frost with glyphed Mage Armor on. I see the talent in the middle of the Arcane tree for regen, and it seems like with Mage Armor up I'll have 100% regen while casting. Does this, combined with a shorter cooldown on Evocate keep you from drinking in 5-mans? Never having to drink as Frost (and being an Alchie) has kinda spoiled me.
You might have to drink really rarely, but basically Arcane's mana situation is exactly what you want it to be. You can go pretty hard and 2m evocates will support you, but there's certainly a tipping point where you've gotta either slow down (that is, adjust your rotation to stack arcane blast less) or start chugging some water. The best part about it is that all your abilities hit so hard that you're not often spending more than 3-4 GCDs in any single (solo) fight.
This is a pretty standard build for raiding and heroics, but there are a few things to keep in mind.
Hit is very easy to get at the higher gear levels and you may be able to move some talents around and still be hit capped (17% on raid bosses).
Push back resistance can be nice, but isn't necessary for most fights. I usually grab slow because it is damn handy and for 1 talent I think it is worth it. If all else fails you can kite tank baddies if your tank can't hold aggro.
Cast sequence is pretty straight forward with arcane blast to 4 stacks and use the arcane missile proc as soon as you can at 4 stacks.
I also use a presence of mind arcane blast macro and try to use it on a 4 stack of arcane blast for a nice big crit (hopefully). Also a nice arcane power+ icy veins+ racials+ trinket is a good main nuke macro.
There are many more options talent wise in PvP than PvE when it comes to arcane. The ones that may not be as obviously necessary are magic absorption, magic attunement and prismatic cloak. All that spell resistance can make the difference, the range bonus from magic attunement is HUGE and instant invisibility saves lives.
However depending on your play style or arena makeup, you may want to consider points in incanters absorption, improved blink, arcane shielding, and arcane subtlety. Resilience will also determine when you need more, dps or survivability.
The best thing you can do as a mage in pvp is to CC and interrupt, especially healers. If you can interrupt a heal, don't rely on the silence to stop healing, it will work for all of a second or two.
Try to set up a good situation to burst, pop cool downs and love thy arcane missile proc.
A macro to stop ice block can also be real handy ( /cancelaura ice block ) to get out early and surprise the other guy, and maybe even for a quick invisibility to get out of harms way.
Frost armor with the chance to root melee is pretty huge, and permafrost healing debuff can also make the difference.
Posts
Most of my career I never needed to drink ever.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
My armory.
The FFB thread on EJ hasn't been updated since 3.2.2, and there are some obvious things like the glyph of improved scorch no longer being necessary (I use glyph of LB), but is the basic rotation still the same?
I ask because when practicing the rotation, the output feels very meh. Keep Scorch up > reapply Living Bomb when it's off > Hot Streak Pyro > FFB is still the way to go, right?
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Though, coming from someone who was raiding Frost, maybe you're not as concerned about that.
Since I never really saw FFB specs anywhere but Naxx, I'd imagine the gear level to make it obsolete is pretty easy to reach.
Makes me sad, though. I like FFB, it has fancy graphics.
And yeah no, I'm not super concerned about optimizing everything. I'm willing to take a 10% cut in damage these days if it means playing a spec I like as opposed to one I hate.
Not like it ever makes a different in normal mode.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Fire at 50 will pretty much level anything and everything, but Blizzard had a hardon for Fire Elementals from like 52-60. Frost has control but the damage kind of blows until Ice Lance/Deep Freeze.
Frost is always the way to level. It's mana efficient, you get replenishment, and the snares win.
You know, I used to think it was pretty bullshit, but in all honesty, it's not that big a deal. The perma elemental is still incredibly useful if you're spending more than a minute in any location, and will be recharged by the time you get to your next quest area anyway.
FFB was okay last night, but seems like it totally sucks if you have to change targets a lot.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Now my future Goblin Mage just got a little less exciting. =/
He doesn't go into temp storage, but he doesn't dismiss, either. He stays out, and will move at your mount speed across the ground to follow you when you take off.
If you go too high, he'll unsummon.
If you don't, he more often than not will not aggro anything and will arrive with you at your destination.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
It's extremely annoying when you're doing surgical strikes on quest objectives, and I find that the cooldown reduction talents+glyph make for a much better experience. Plus you get to keep his frost nova.
i.e. it's meant to be not used ever.
Also, the talent section was wiped as it was horrible behind; from now on, you guys submit talent builds, and I'll note them there as follows:
(spec) (PvP or PvE) by (forumer)
Example:
Fire PvE Build by Henroid
(that's just an underline mark, not a link, but you get the idea)
Edit - PS, fuck the Timewarp.
Fuck, everyone is going to be macro'ing that shit. Gonna be hating to death so much.
I'll see if i can post a couple common PVE arcane and fire builds after i get home from work.
As for the section for resources, I'd suggest including the following mods:
Scorchio 2 -- It gives you timers for many mage buffs and debuffs. It tracks improved scorch, living bomb, winters chill, mirror images, hot streaks, and brain freezes. Allows you to easily see if improved shadowbolt is active in place of the improved scorch debuff. And also allows you to make sure there is a slowing debuff up on your target for your torment the weak talent.
Power Auras -- Very flexible mod which you can set up to alert you visibly and audibly when certain buffs or debuffs are on you or your target. Many mages find this mod useful in alerting them when hot streak or brain freeze procs. It can also be set up in various ways to track AB stacks.
LivingBombTracker -- Cool little mod for mages who cast living bomb with a mouseover macro. Displays a timer for the living bomb currently on the target you are mousing over.
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
Decent use of Mana, Crits, and all the CC you could possibly want with an "oh shit" button or two. Also, Mana/Frost Shield is nice for that "hahah I am raping your face and you do nothing!" effect.
Downside to frost is dungeons. You won't be doing random dungeons with "amazing" dps since Frost is mainly CC influenced damage. (crit on frozen, etc). You can also off-spec Arcane in 2 levels which is your dungeon DPS. 2 minute evocation? Yes please!
That all being said, I have not leveled a Mage in several months, and I actually hear that Fire is pulling ahead for dungeons, but my information might be rusty.
Right now questing feels slow as hell, but I'm sure that'll improve with gear.
dont frost nova, they will turn around and hit anyone in range (ie you) if the tank is not right next to them
You also come with a little more survivability since you can use Ice Barrier on fights where you'll take unavoidable damage. Finally, the healer will appreciate your replenishment (whether he's aware of it or not) more than anyone will appreciate arcane/fire's group buffs.
So Frost is great and I do a ton of AoE and single-target damage in randoms and everything, but I'm tempted to try one of the other two trees for levelling, just so see how they feel. My mage alt will be 64 in two levels, which is when I get Arcane Burst, and I'm thinking that may be the best time to try out Arcane.
What's the rotation for an Arcane mage, though? From YouTube videos, it looks like it's straight Arcane Burst spam, with Missiles only cast when some talent procs. Is this the ideal? Where does Arcane Barrage come in?
And are bosses immune to the whole Slow debuff, or just the snare part of it?
From what I remember (and this may have changed), it's ABx4, AM. The buff is just usually up by that point.
Yep, ABx4 then AM, or ABx3 then AM if you're having mana problems the other way. You don't cast Arcane Barrage unless you have to move.
Also, forget about using slow. Torment the weak is triggered by attack speed debuffs, which should be up 100% of the time on a mob that is being tanked. Paladins, Druids, and DKs apply it just by doing their normal damage to a boss, and Warriors should have thunder clap on any boss as well.
Also, for levelling dungeons you will do the most damage by just popping arcane power/icy veins and spamming AB without any missiles at all. You shouldn't run OOM before they die in 12 seconds anyway, and you'll laugh at how much damage you do.
How's mana regen look like in levelling gear (5 heirlooms, including trinkets)? 5-man buffed, I typically see ~130 mp5 while casting, specced full Frost with glyphed Mage Armor on. I see the talent in the middle of the Arcane tree for regen, and it seems like with Mage Armor up I'll have 100% regen while casting. Does this, combined with a shorter cooldown on Evocate keep you from drinking in 5-mans? Never having to drink as Frost (and being an Alchie) has kinda spoiled me.
Hit is very easy to get at the higher gear levels and you may be able to move some talents around and still be hit capped (17% on raid bosses).
Push back resistance can be nice, but isn't necessary for most fights. I usually grab slow because it is damn handy and for 1 talent I think it is worth it. If all else fails you can kite tank baddies if your tank can't hold aggro.
Cast sequence is pretty straight forward with arcane blast to 4 stacks and use the arcane missile proc as soon as you can at 4 stacks.
I also use a presence of mind arcane blast macro and try to use it on a 4 stack of arcane blast for a nice big crit (hopefully). Also a nice arcane power+ icy veins+ racials+ trinket is a good main nuke macro.
Arcane PvP Build By Kueller. Comments:
However depending on your play style or arena makeup, you may want to consider points in incanters absorption, improved blink, arcane shielding, and arcane subtlety. Resilience will also determine when you need more, dps or survivability.
The best thing you can do as a mage in pvp is to CC and interrupt, especially healers. If you can interrupt a heal, don't rely on the silence to stop healing, it will work for all of a second or two.
Try to set up a good situation to burst, pop cool downs and love thy arcane missile proc.
A macro to stop ice block can also be real handy ( /cancelaura ice block ) to get out early and surprise the other guy, and maybe even for a quick invisibility to get out of harms way.
Frost armor with the chance to root melee is pretty huge, and permafrost healing debuff can also make the difference.