tl;dr: We would like to eventually do things but not right now.
Indeed.
So... hunter ammo was generally understood to be crappy, uninteresting, and tedious, and soul shards were generally understood to be crappy, uninteresting, and tedious. Blizzard says they're going to overhaul ammo and soul shards into something more interesting and meaningful and not just a chore, implying that the changes to both are coming in 3.1 or 3.2. It turns out these changes are too bold for these patches, so instead of overhauling ammo they put in some simple, quick fixes to make the system much more palatable. The result is that hunters no longer waste an entire bag slot for an expensive, crafted, ammo-specific bag that is no longer viable if you get a new ranged weapon that happens to be an arbitrarily different type. Additionally, ammo stack sizes are quintupled so that what used to waste 20 bag slots (no matter how low on ammo you were) now uses 5-6. These two changes actually made a wonderful quick fix. Now ammo is no longer a burden of space; it's just an extra expense and something you have to refill whenever you're back in town -- functionally just a reagent in larger quantities.
So warlocks also get some quick fix action to tide them over until the real soul shard overhaul hits. And that fix was to cap the amount you can have and allow you to get them more quickly through DPS-raping Drain Soul spam. Wow, that's it? They still waste an entire bag slot that takes an expensive, crafted bag. No stacking, no nothing. Nice lump of coal from Blizzard for warlocks. Way to really put that half of an ass worth of effort into it, guys.
Threat-dump abilities are tricky to balance. We don’t want these spells to feel rotational -- you aren’t supposed to do say Curse of Agony, Immolate, Soulshatter, Curse of Agony, Immolate, Soulshatter. They are there for emergencies.
It still annoys me he refers to soulshatter as an emergency ability. If I used it in an emergency, I don't have it for when I probably need it later. The shorter cooldown will help though.
wat
I don't understand your logic at all. If the ability does its job in an emergency (which Soulshatter generally does, unless it's really early in a fight and there's a huge threat gap on a mob), then it's an emergency ability. It doesn't mean it's always going to be available no matter how recklessly you play.
Eh, Archavon usually doesn't one-shot me. Too bad Cower doesn't do shit.
Also, my point was as much about this:
We don’t want these spells to feel rotational -- you aren’t supposed to do say Curse of Agony, Immolate, Soulshatter, Curse of Agony, Immolate, Soulshatter. They are there for emergencies.
Cower isn't an emergency ability since it's such a small dump. Even though rogues are also melee, I'd say that Vanish is a good emergency threat dump if you're fast.
Besides, if you're watching yourself scoot toward the threat cap, then Cower basically becomes rotational. A rogue in the same situation can just Vanish and be fine for the rest of the encounter, or a warlock can just Soulshatter and probably be OK for the rest of it unless it was really early on in the fight. Basically I am using the warlock Q&A to bitch that cats need Vanish (or, realistically, something that works as a real threat dump). I believe the only other class with the same threat problems as feral druids are arms warriors.
I don't understand your logic at all. If the ability does its job in an emergency (which Soulshatter generally does, unless it's really early in a fight and there's a huge threat gap on a mob), then it's an emergency ability. It doesn't mean it's always going to be available no matter how recklessly you play.
You don't need it for every fight, since not every fight messes with tank threat. For fights where you need it, you shouldn't be using it for emergencies, or else you're using it incorrectly. My definition of correct use is to remove the threat cap for as long as possible. Using it early means you're going to get threat capped again very quickly. Sure, you can use it recklessly, but that's not good use at all.
There are exceptions of course, such as botched tank switches and messy AoE trash. Unfortunately, you're usually setting someone else up to get killed anyway in those situations. That's the sort of emergency where someone else gets killed, and it's only a tool to save my own skin.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Besides, if you're watching yourself scoot toward the threat cap, then Cower basically becomes rotational. A rogue in the same situation can just Vanish and be fine for the rest of the encounter, or a warlock can just Soulshatter and probably be OK for the rest of it unless it was really early on in the fight. Basically I am using the warlock Q&A to bitch that cats need Vanish (or, realistically, something that works as a real threat dump). I believe the only other class with the same threat problems as feral druids are arms warriors.
You're less likely to have an emergency later in the fight anyway, since the buffer zone (from 100% to pulling aggro) is larger. However, from my own experience, if I'm getting threat capped, I can probably hit cap again, unless I save it. Over an entire fight, it averages out to only about ~10% threat reduction. It's less of a problem now, but mostly because most fights don't fuck too badly with tank threat and tank threat is overall much better.
Also, if I do have an emergency where I have to use it RIGHT NOW OR OH GOD I'M GONNA DIE, I probably fucked up positioning bad enough where there's going to be some serious problems anyway. Anything less isn't an emergency, since I can stop/slow my dps.
(I'm not going to say kitties don't need help, although the 30% threat reduction that cat form has isn't to be underestimated.)
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
There are exceptions of course, such as botched tank switches and messy AoE trash. Unfortunately, you're usually setting someone else up to get killed anyway in those situations. That's the sort of emergency where someone else gets killed, and it's only a tool to save my own skin.
Better someone else than you. It still beats the shit out of Cower.
Still, since it can be used to keep from dying in an emergency or as a great mid-fight threat dump, it's a pretty handy ability. Not as useful as a full threat dump, but again, it beats the pants off of Cower.
Anything less isn't an emergency, since I can stop/slow my dps.
Yeah, and so can every other class. It's retarded to have to gimp your damage when some other classes (cough especially hunters cough) can reset threat at some point and then go full bore for the rest of the fight.
(I'm not going to say kitties don't need help, although the 30% threat reduction that cat form has isn't to be underestimated.)
It's 20%, and that's mostly just a counterbalance against the 110% melee vs. 130% ranged mechanics (and doesn't make up for the talented -10% threat of most casters).
Well, maybe my gripe is soulshatter is supposed to be for emergencies, but my base threat is so high I have to save it (which includes not being retarded and pulling aggro) when I really care about threat.
I think mathematically the 30%...or 20%, whatever overrides the 20% gap between 110% and 130%. In very least, I've been outdpsed by warriors with my threat dump used decently late in, while having constant threat problems. They don't get a different tank than me, so I don't know what else it would be. Maybe they're dirty cheaters.
I guess the only thing you, and many melee lack, is the quick bulk aggro dump for emergencies.
Also, I think we can agree to hate hunters for having feign death.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Well, maybe my gripe is soulshatter is supposed to be for emergencies, but my base threat is so high I have to save it (which includes not being retarded and pulling aggro) when I really care about threat.
Melee, including cats have really good base threat reduction without even including cower. You don't have the buffer, of course, but I think mathematically it ends up being less significant.
The only thing you, and many melee lack, is the quick bulk aggro dump.
I believe arms, feral, and rogues are the only melee DPS specs with 80% threat generation. Every other one gets 70% or 75% threat generation via talents. But since rogues have vanish, that gives them an advantage in long term threat. Basically arms and feral are the highest threat specs, and arms has nothing they can do about it while feral has a very shitty threat reducer that costs DPS (which, in effect, is similar to just stopping your DPS, which every class can do).
I think mathematically the 30%...or 20%, whatever overrides the 20% gap between 110% and 130%.
It's an innate 20% reduction, but every ranged class can talent for at least 10% threat reduction except hunters (which obviously don't have threat problems). 80% vs. 90% does not make up for the melee/ranged gap.
1.1 / 0.8 < 1.3 / 0.9
Functionally warlocks actually have less than 90% threat generation since some percentage of their DPS is not giving them any threat (i.e., pet damage). I would think non-arcane mages would actually output more threat per damage than warlocks.
Functionally warlocks actually have less than 90% threat generation since some percentage of their DPS is not giving them any threat (i.e., pet damage). I would think non-arcane mages would actually output more threat per damage than warlocks.
True, I didn't factor that in, but I doubt it completely balances it since on most fights a lot of the pet/self healing is going to be overheal. Anyway, the main point is that 90% threat generation at range will not pull aggro as quickly as 80% threat generation in melee.
I think mathematically the 30%...or 20%, whatever overrides the 20% gap between 110% and 130%.
It's an innate 20% reduction, but every ranged class can talent for at least 10% threat reduction except hunters (which obviously don't have threat problems). 80% vs. 90% does not make up for the melee/ranged gap.
1.1 / 0.8 < 1.3 / 0.9
Functionally warlocks actually have less than 90% threat generation since some percentage of their DPS is not giving them any threat (i.e., pet damage). I would think non-arcane mages would actually output more threat per damage than warlocks.
Well, 70% vs. 90% does make up for it though, which was my original assumption. That does kinda throw that out the window unless I'm comparing against fury warriors, unfortunately.
As for comparing against mages, I'd guess it depends on the spec you're comparing against. Few warlocks actually spec for 10% full threat reduction because both talents in different trees that don't fit well in specs together. For mages, fire gets a normal 10%, but I'm not sure if frostfire gets to double dip.
Edit: Frostfire appears to double dip, so that spec gets extra threat reduction for about half its damage.
It's a bit late for me to try to successfully try to do any math on it. I suspect mages and warlocks aren't too far off from each other, since pets don't really exceed 10% of the master's damage unless demonology is involved. Fire is obviously at least a little worse, but frostfire is probably closer.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Re: Green Fire Q - Chaos bolt is green fire, and fits their explanation of 'we'd rather put it into a spell' so I'm a little surprised they didn't even mention it. They don't seem to grasp 'green' for every fire spell though, is it really too much to ask? Mages have red fire, warlocks get green. Everybody (almost?) happy.
Re: Pets - I smell a demon talent system coming.
Ok I'll stop with the 're' before I get called one - aggro dump, "We are going to lower the cooldown of Soulshatter to three minutes. We don’t think the shard cost is a big expense in PvE situations. Threat-dump abilities are tricky to balance. We don’t want these spells to feel rotational -- you aren’t supposed to do say Curse of Agony, Immolate, Soulshatter, Curse of Agony, Immolate, Soulshatter. They are there for emergencies. "
Aren't hunters using FD every 30s? (only back in BC?)
Soul shards - "Yes. As we have hinted on occasion, we have a revamp of the entire system in the works. This is a big change, beyond the scope of the 3.2 patch, but we are confident -- CONFIDENT -- that the new system will be something warlocks finally enjoy. (I’m sure I will never, ever regret saying that.) "
Man, the pre-arena set up for a warlock is obnoxious.
Summon imp, start summoning health stone dispenser, cast fire shield on everyone, retrieve health stone, summon voidwalker, demon armor, soul link, cast underwater breathing and detect invisibility on everyone, apply firestone, and then cast shadow ward right before you reach the enemy.
Phew.
Inquisitor on
0
Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Underwater breathing as a dummy buff for dispel happy targets?
The next rank of Hellfire in Cataclysm (or whatever) is just going to read "You are immune to Sap and take 90% less durability damage", passive buff, just you watch.
As with the rants about Q&A
I am one of the few that does not want green fire
I would like a way {ie items} to customize daemons. Why not give the daemon trainers items that use soul shards an example is a whip for a succubus, it takes 5 or 6 shards to turn it into a weapon that has a chance to apply a dot to a target and give the succubus 200 more ap/sp.
If you really don't know anti rogue/feral druid tactics in pvp by now then you really don't know what you are doing
I use the teleport to confuse them and hellfire for a general guess in pvp
I can tell you from 70 onwards that affliction is best for leveling and definitely not destro. Cool seeing 5 mobs piling on you and you finishing at full health. I go destro for dungeons though because it's easier to do most dps that spec.
Affliction is strictly speaking the most efficient leveling build. You could level with any spec, but the healing and mana efficiency/better life taps that Affliction gets, plus the multi-target capabilites of their DoTs, enables you to take on more at once with less downtime.
So I'm suddenly hurrying to do the midsummer achievements since I want the title being that I'm going destruction(fire pew pew), and I take a detour to blasted lands to do my doomguard summoning quests, and holy shit the elites there are scary. I'm 75 right now and being affliction I got down to less than half health drain tanking him. This must have been exhausting at 60 needing a party just to go through the zone.
I really want to put my fist through the face of every moronic jackass who actually gets on the official WoW forums and says that among all the problems facing the warlock class that one that needs attention is the color of the spells we cast.
Personally I don't care what color the fire is. Green, red, purple, pink. I rarely even notice the graphics since I am to busy either dodging stuff in a fight or making sure I am casting at max efficiency with my quartz since I run between 350 to 450 ping on average.
Out of everything with my warlock, I think the ascetics are actually pretty decent compared to other classes. Rarely do I find myself cringing at my armor or spells. Pets look fine, and since I rarely see anything other than the imp I don't care. In general how I look on my 'lock makes me feel 100 times more badass and correct than how I look on my warrior. Uludar warrior gear makes me cringe.
Honestly, if something cosmetic is going to happen, I'd like it to happen to casting animations. I've stared at the same casting animations for four years now, I'm ready to see something else.
Posts
So... hunter ammo was generally understood to be crappy, uninteresting, and tedious, and soul shards were generally understood to be crappy, uninteresting, and tedious. Blizzard says they're going to overhaul ammo and soul shards into something more interesting and meaningful and not just a chore, implying that the changes to both are coming in 3.1 or 3.2. It turns out these changes are too bold for these patches, so instead of overhauling ammo they put in some simple, quick fixes to make the system much more palatable. The result is that hunters no longer waste an entire bag slot for an expensive, crafted, ammo-specific bag that is no longer viable if you get a new ranged weapon that happens to be an arbitrarily different type. Additionally, ammo stack sizes are quintupled so that what used to waste 20 bag slots (no matter how low on ammo you were) now uses 5-6. These two changes actually made a wonderful quick fix. Now ammo is no longer a burden of space; it's just an extra expense and something you have to refill whenever you're back in town -- functionally just a reagent in larger quantities.
So warlocks also get some quick fix action to tide them over until the real soul shard overhaul hits. And that fix was to cap the amount you can have and allow you to get them more quickly through DPS-raping Drain Soul spam. Wow, that's it? They still waste an entire bag slot that takes an expensive, crafted bag. No stacking, no nothing. Nice lump of coal from Blizzard for warlocks. Way to really put that half of an ass worth of effort into it, guys.
Except for Cower, so fuck you, feral druids.
wat
I don't understand your logic at all. If the ability does its job in an emergency (which Soulshatter generally does, unless it's really early in a fight and there's a huge threat gap on a mob), then it's an emergency ability. It doesn't mean it's always going to be available no matter how recklessly you play.
I mean, not that it matters much since there's like, five possible names or something.
Also, my point was as much about this: Cower isn't an emergency ability since it's such a small dump. Even though rogues are also melee, I'd say that Vanish is a good emergency threat dump if you're fast.
Besides, if you're watching yourself scoot toward the threat cap, then Cower basically becomes rotational. A rogue in the same situation can just Vanish and be fine for the rest of the encounter, or a warlock can just Soulshatter and probably be OK for the rest of it unless it was really early on in the fight. Basically I am using the warlock Q&A to bitch that cats need Vanish (or, realistically, something that works as a real threat dump). I believe the only other class with the same threat problems as feral druids are arms warriors.
You don't need it for every fight, since not every fight messes with tank threat. For fights where you need it, you shouldn't be using it for emergencies, or else you're using it incorrectly. My definition of correct use is to remove the threat cap for as long as possible. Using it early means you're going to get threat capped again very quickly. Sure, you can use it recklessly, but that's not good use at all.
There are exceptions of course, such as botched tank switches and messy AoE trash. Unfortunately, you're usually setting someone else up to get killed anyway in those situations. That's the sort of emergency where someone else gets killed, and it's only a tool to save my own skin.
You're less likely to have an emergency later in the fight anyway, since the buffer zone (from 100% to pulling aggro) is larger. However, from my own experience, if I'm getting threat capped, I can probably hit cap again, unless I save it. Over an entire fight, it averages out to only about ~10% threat reduction. It's less of a problem now, but mostly because most fights don't fuck too badly with tank threat and tank threat is overall much better.
Also, if I do have an emergency where I have to use it RIGHT NOW OR OH GOD I'M GONNA DIE, I probably fucked up positioning bad enough where there's going to be some serious problems anyway. Anything less isn't an emergency, since I can stop/slow my dps.
(I'm not going to say kitties don't need help, although the 30% threat reduction that cat form has isn't to be underestimated.)
Still, since it can be used to keep from dying in an emergency or as a great mid-fight threat dump, it's a pretty handy ability. Not as useful as a full threat dump, but again, it beats the pants off of Cower.
It stopped acting as a death avoidance tool on bosses a long time ago, but I'm almost positive it still resets threat.
Yeah, and so can every other class. It's retarded to have to gimp your damage when some other classes (cough especially hunters cough) can reset threat at some point and then go full bore for the rest of the fight.
It's 20%, and that's mostly just a counterbalance against the 110% melee vs. 130% ranged mechanics (and doesn't make up for the talented -10% threat of most casters).
I think mathematically the 30%...or 20%, whatever overrides the 20% gap between 110% and 130%. In very least, I've been outdpsed by warriors with my threat dump used decently late in, while having constant threat problems. They don't get a different tank than me, so I don't know what else it would be. Maybe they're dirty cheaters.
I guess the only thing you, and many melee lack, is the quick bulk aggro dump for emergencies.
Also, I think we can agree to hate hunters for having feign death.
1.1 / 0.8 < 1.3 / 0.9
Functionally warlocks actually have less than 90% threat generation since some percentage of their DPS is not giving them any threat (i.e., pet damage). I would think non-arcane mages would actually output more threat per damage than warlocks.
It is, but not by much, which is why I said it's similar.
That's balanced out by healing aggro, so...
Well, 70% vs. 90% does make up for it though, which was my original assumption. That does kinda throw that out the window unless I'm comparing against fury warriors, unfortunately.
As for comparing against mages, I'd guess it depends on the spec you're comparing against. Few warlocks actually spec for 10% full threat reduction because both talents in different trees that don't fit well in specs together. For mages, fire gets a normal 10%, but I'm not sure if frostfire gets to double dip.
Edit: Frostfire appears to double dip, so that spec gets extra threat reduction for about half its damage.
It's a bit late for me to try to successfully try to do any math on it. I suspect mages and warlocks aren't too far off from each other, since pets don't really exceed 10% of the master's damage unless demonology is involved. Fire is obviously at least a little worse, but frostfire is probably closer.
"Blowing a shard should be a big deal -- an exciting moment."
That's what she said.
It was already done a page back. Check the spoiler.
Re: Pets - I smell a demon talent system coming.
Ok I'll stop with the 're' before I get called one - aggro dump, "We are going to lower the cooldown of Soulshatter to three minutes. We don’t think the shard cost is a big expense in PvE situations. Threat-dump abilities are tricky to balance. We don’t want these spells to feel rotational -- you aren’t supposed to do say Curse of Agony, Immolate, Soulshatter, Curse of Agony, Immolate, Soulshatter. They are there for emergencies. "
Aren't hunters using FD every 30s? (only back in BC?)
Soul shards - "Yes. As we have hinted on occasion, we have a revamp of the entire system in the works. This is a big change, beyond the scope of the 3.2 patch, but we are confident -- CONFIDENT -- that the new system will be something warlocks finally enjoy. (I’m sure I will never, ever regret saying that.) "
Bout' time sheesh. :winky:
Although, I wasn't looking to set people on fire in the first place.
No, I was looking to afflict people with terrible maladies so that they rot out from the inside.
Summon imp, start summoning health stone dispenser, cast fire shield on everyone, retrieve health stone, summon voidwalker, demon armor, soul link, cast underwater breathing and detect invisibility on everyone, apply firestone, and then cast shadow ward right before you reach the enemy.
Phew.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
It's still a fair amount of time even without the trash buffs.
Everybody knows green is the evil fire.
Ugh, you win. Red it is.
Cuz..it's...black
Yep.
I did not know you could do that, that is awesome.
I also forget to mention laying down my teleport exit somewhere smart before the proper fighting begins.
Pick a spec what you think you would like and go with it
I am one of the few that does not want green fire
I would like a way {ie items} to customize daemons. Why not give the daemon trainers items that use soul shards an example is a whip for a succubus, it takes 5 or 6 shards to turn it into a weapon that has a chance to apply a dot to a target and give the succubus 200 more ap/sp.
If you really don't know anti rogue/feral druid tactics in pvp by now then you really don't know what you are doing
I use the teleport to confuse them and hellfire for a general guess in pvp
I really want to put my fist through the face of every moronic jackass who actually gets on the official WoW forums and says that among all the problems facing the warlock class that one that needs attention is the color of the spells we cast.
Those people need to fucking die in red fire.
Out of everything with my warlock, I think the ascetics are actually pretty decent compared to other classes. Rarely do I find myself cringing at my armor or spells. Pets look fine, and since I rarely see anything other than the imp I don't care. In general how I look on my 'lock makes me feel 100 times more badass and correct than how I look on my warrior. Uludar warrior gear makes me cringe.