[WoW]Warlocks - Patch 3.1: Fun removed, Angst now a base ability

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Doesn't it just do a % of total health worth of damage? Like 50% or something?

    forty on
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  • AfroJAfroJ Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I've seen it do about 12k damage to a tank before so I think it might be a percentage.

    AfroJ on
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  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The description of the spell that actually deals the damage says "Sacrifices a portion of the target's health to summon a Doomguard.", so it probably is a set percentage.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It would have to be, since level 60s and such would get one-shotted by 9k damage.

    forty on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    forty wrote: »
    I haven't used the imp in ages. You guys seem to be implying that it doesn't go OOM in 30 seconds anymore, like it used to.

    My imp will out last me. They are like the energizer bunny now. And as destruction they also get the benefit of imp.soul leech. Actually never seen my imp under half mana now.

    Mazzyx on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    At some point in the fairly recent past they upped the cast time of the imp's firebolt, so he doesn't run dry as quickly anymore.

    and yeah, with the destro talents I'm not sure he'll ever run out of mana, assuming you a re also attacking.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • DisDis Registered User
    edited March 2009
    I am still waiting for PERM demon form.
    I want to be a Demon Main Tank.

    Dis on
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  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. i'm the bat guy (bluh)Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Gonna be waiting a long, long time then.

    I needed a gnome to post. on
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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Dis wrote: »
    I am still waiting for PERM demon form.
    I want to be a Demon Main Tank.

    I think demon form in some ways tainted the demonic talent tree and the overall view of what warlocks do. Well, "tainted" may be a strong word. But it modified the view of a caster and its summon to be the caster as the source of melee damage. And that's odd.

    It's similar to demonic sacrifice, which I'm glad they finally removed in 3.1. It never made much sense to have a talent in the demonic tree which required the user to sacrifice their demon.

    _J_ on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Since demon form is just a cooldown, I don't think it really messes up the definition of a tree like demonic sacrifice did. 90% of the time, you're not in illidan form running up to things to immolate them.

    forty on
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  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Well, demon form doesn't remove your pet anymore, either.

    I don't think it's really a problem, although personally I don't find meta appealing and have no desire to turn into a demon myself.

    End on
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  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'd love perma Demon form, but I don't want to tank. I wouldn't mind losing the pet (maybe limit the selection to only using the imp.) while in the form if it was affected by the various Demon buffs in the tree.

    Kevin Crist on
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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    forty wrote: »
    Since demon form is just a cooldown, I don't think it really messes up the definition of a tree like demonic sacrifice did. 90% of the time, you're not in illidan form running up to things to immolate them.

    It's a very wonky talent insofar as it is a seed for the notion of demonic form being the warlock equivalent of boomkin form. Allowing players to turn into a demon for a little bit starts the slippery slope argument of "what if we could, like, always be in demonic form?"

    _J_ on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Where's the slippery slope? Some warlock players have asked for it on the forum, and Blizzard has adamantly stated "no."

    Oomkin and Shadow forms exist mainly to give hybrids a more distinct "DPS mode." With them come substantial benefits to DPS to bring their weaker base spells in line, while removing some of their hybrid ability to keep them from being able to "do everything at the same time." There's really not any point for a permanent warlock demon form since warlocks are a DPS class that is already set up to always perform that role.

    forty on
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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Someone show me what a pre-Outland leveling build would look like post 3.1 for Affliction, Demonology, and Destruction. I'm torn on what I want to try.

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  • JesuitsJesuits Registered User
    edited March 2009
    I like the notion of demon form being usable as an 'aw fuck, tank just died, rarrrrgh healers on me' button, what with the -6% chance to be crit (that's crit immune on bosses, right? Not sure), large armor increase, and reasonable threat generation with liberal use of searing pain + immo aura. I don't know if dudes consider that a reasonable emergency tactic or not in the final analysis, but I, at least, think that would be pretty swell.

    Jesuits on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Your mitigation would still be for shit on anything that hit remotely hard, but in a five man or something it might work.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • X Equals LoserX Equals Loser Wilford Brimley Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Lock-tank Yogg in Demon Form.

    You're the only thing batshit crazy enough to ignore his Insanity debuff.

    X Equals Loser on
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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    The new Ulduar gear is pretty sweet in the spell hit department.

    _J_ on
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Thank the Legion. It'll be nice to use spell damage gems again.

    Kevin Crist on
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  • KainyKainy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Thank the Legion. It'll be nice to use spell damage gems again.

    I'm sorry, but I'm going to steal "Thank the Legion" for my own warlock :lol:

    They made lifetap awful at low levels. My level 21 warlock kinda sucks to play, these days. I need to get her some heirloom shit to zazz her up. Then maybe I can actually harm stuff.

    Speccing Destro at low level is for iron men only.

    Kainy on
    IcyLiquid wrote: »
    There's anti-fuckery code in there now :) Sorry :)
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Speccing Destro at low level is for iron men only.

    This has always been true.

    shryke on
  • orpheusorpheus Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Malediction Rank 3: Increases your spell damage by 3%, and increases the periodic critical strike chance of your Corruption and Unstable Affliction spells by 9%.

    I'm not sure I understand this. I know CoE is going to be 13%. The 3% buff to spell damage is the same. But what is this periodic critical strike chance? Does that just buff the crit chance if you have Pandemic, or is there some other periodic crit chance those spells now have?

    orpheus on
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  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So far as I can tell, it simply buffs the chance of the pandemic crit, which would make the positioning awkward, if the 3% spell damage didn't exist on that talent.

    End on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    honestly, if you managed to get malediction without getting pandemic you have bigger problems than awkward position in the talent tree

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It can happen while leveling (although I'm pretty sure you can avoid it), but yeah, for raiding affliction is rigid enough where you can't really avoid picking up those talents.

    End on
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  • JesuitsJesuits Registered User
    edited March 2009
    In a 3.1 Destro build, my choice came down to 3/3 demonic aegis or suppression. Am I right in thinking suppression would be more useful, giving you more freedom to gem for actual spellpower, or do the maths work out such that demonic aegis is more bang for the demon-buck?

    Jesuits on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    it depends on how much +damage you get by taking aegis (depends on amount of spirit, buffs etc.)

    One percent hit is 26 hit rating (26.2 but whatever), so if you assume you can convert hit rating directly into spellpower, suppression adds 75-80 +dmg. Course gear prevents you from doing this sometimes, so that is a consideration too.

    Also, you essentially spend eight talent points to get aegis versus three for suppression, so depending on how you have your destro build set up consider that.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I am going with suppression just so I don't have to play the massive regem game when 3.1 comes out. I still think its pretty stupid for them to remove the hit talent from destruction. I would gladly give up the mana cost reduction again for hit. I don't have problems on my destruction lock as it is, and come 3.1 even less thanks to carrying my own replenishment.

    Mazzyx on
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  • orpheusorpheus Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Speaking of which demon to use earlier, it sounds like thats mostly personal preference, right? Someone mentioned untalented they're within 100 dps of each other.

    So does this sound right?

    Affliction: Anything.
    Affliction with Dark Pact: Imp battery or Improved Felhunter.

    Demonology: Felguard, or any of the others if you didn't take 41 points.

    Destruction: Imp or Succubus, definitely Imp if you go deep enough.

    Voidwalker for those special occassions.

    I guess I thought that certain builds always use certain demons, but I see a lot of builds and I have no idea which demon they are using.

    I'm Affliction and run with an Improved Felhunter. I like having Spellock and Dispel Magic available.

    orpheus on
    But, if you are after mere parlor tricks, you will be sorely disappointed. For if I reach behind your ear, it will not be a nickel I pull out, but your very soul!
  • JesuitsJesuits Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    it depends on how much +damage you get by taking aegis (depends on amount of spirit, buffs etc.)

    One percent hit is 26 hit rating (26.2 but whatever), so if you assume you can convert hit rating directly into spellpower, suppression adds 75-80 +dmg. Course gear prevents you from doing this sometimes, so that is a consideration too.

    Also, you essentially spend eight talent points to get aegis versus three for suppression, so depending on how you have your destro build set up consider that.

    Here's the build I was thinking about, with the floater point for filling out Destructive Reach, Imp Healthstone, Fel Domination (probably not), or 1/3 Aegis. My lock is only 60 and I'm not going to spec him destro at all for another two levels (fel armor), so I couldn't run any sorts of hard numbers myself. Well, it should be close, either way.

    In other news, I am going to jump for joy when 3.1 hits and DKs lose that fucking shadow of death. Fought a DK in HFP today over one of the stadium-type places, and he practically just stood there until he died, then came back to life and mauled me and there was nothing I could do to gain distance or disrupt his exploding if he had chosen to. Looking back, I could have popped Meta, activated immo aura, and spammed searing pain or something, but even if I could have killed him before he killed me (improbable), I had no practical way of interrupting his explosion, and forgot I had meta anyhow since I had just gotten it.

    tl;dr fuck shadow of death

    Jesuits on
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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    orpheus wrote: »
    Speaking of which demon to use earlier, it sounds like thats mostly personal preference, right? Someone mentioned untalented they're within 100 dps of each other.

    Do affliction warlocks actually use their pets for DPS?

    _J_ on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    _J_ wrote: »
    orpheus wrote: »
    Speaking of which demon to use earlier, it sounds like thats mostly personal preference, right? Someone mentioned untalented they're within 100 dps of each other.

    Do affliction warlocks actually use their pets for DPS?

    I use the succubus and fel hound

    Usually if I am using them I am running around gattering mobs

    Brainleech on
  • JesuitsJesuits Registered User
    edited March 2009
    _J_ wrote: »
    orpheus wrote: »
    Speaking of which demon to use earlier, it sounds like thats mostly personal preference, right? Someone mentioned untalented they're within 100 dps of each other.

    Do affliction warlocks actually use their pets for DPS?

    Depends on how much mileage they like getting out of Dark Pact. For locks that like doing that a lot, Imp Felhunter is probably the best choice; succubus may be better dps-wise if the lock isn't constantly sucking her dry.

    Ignore me, though, I haven't been affliction since 1.x.

    Jesuits on
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  • Mr Slippy FistMr Slippy Fist Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Jesuits wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    orpheus wrote: »
    Speaking of which demon to use earlier, it sounds like thats mostly personal preference, right? Someone mentioned untalented they're within 100 dps of each other.

    Do affliction warlocks actually use their pets for DPS?

    Depends on how much mileage they like getting out of Dark Pact. For locks that like doing that a lot, Imp Felhunter is probably the best choice; succubus may be better dps-wise if the lock isn't constantly sucking her dry.

    Ignore me, though, I haven't been affliction since 1.x.
    At this point (from a purely raiding perspective, mind you), an Affliction Warlock shouldn't be taking Dark Pact anyway. When you have the highest ranks of each spell, Life Tap is flat out better for recovering mana, and that's even before you put the 2 points into Improved Life Tap or get 4p7 bonus. So for a raiding spec, Dark Pact, and by extension Improved Fel Hunter, are wasted points. What you'll probably want to do is run Fel Hunter if your group lacks a Discipline Priest or a Mage, Succubus if you have both covered.

    Now, for soloing/questing/grinding only, Dark Pact may be worth taking as another method to just keep going without downtime.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    _J_ wrote: »
    orpheus wrote: »
    Speaking of which demon to use earlier, it sounds like thats mostly personal preference, right? Someone mentioned untalented they're within 100 dps of each other.

    Do affliction warlocks actually use their pets for DPS?

    Yup, all three specs use their pets. One of the few things that Blizzard wanted to do instead that they suceeded with. I think the last thread we had a list going.

    Affliction: Succy is the best dps of the normal pets, felhunter if you need the spirit buff. Doomguard is your go to pet when you can for the most dps.

    Demo:Felguard? Is this really a challenge?

    Destruction: Imp, its about 15% of your damage with all the talents(mine does about 700 dps). Also your imp is a basically a crit buff in this spec as well. Figure he is one of the reasons in 25 mans I can hit a 45% crit rate on my incinerates and such.

    Edit: Guess the Succy is for affliction, I haven't been affliction since TBC and leveling which wasn't a raid spec.

    Mazzyx on
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  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    _J_ wrote: »
    orpheus wrote: »
    Speaking of which demon to use earlier, it sounds like thats mostly personal preference, right? Someone mentioned untalented they're within 100 dps of each other.

    Do affliction warlocks actually use their pets for DPS?

    It's more efficient to use life tap than dark pact, and it's kind of a waste to not at least send the pet in to do something, especially if the fight isn't pet unfriendly.

    Succubus being useful is relatively new though, since it needed the pet melee buffs. Right now the "cookie cutter" spec for 3.1 includes the succubus/imp talent in destro, since affliction has been made a little bit leaner.

    End on
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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    End wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    orpheus wrote: »
    Speaking of which demon to use earlier, it sounds like thats mostly personal preference, right? Someone mentioned untalented they're within 100 dps of each other.

    Do affliction warlocks actually use their pets for DPS?

    It's more efficient to use life tap than dark pact, and it's kind of a waste to not at least send the pet in to do something, especially if the fight isn't pet unfriendly.

    Succubus being useful is relatively new though, since it needed the pet melee buffs. Right now the "cookie cutter" spec for 3.1 includes the succubus/imp talent in destro, since affliction has been made a little bit leaner.

    I just keep my imp out for Blood Pact. I never considered actually having it DPS.

    _J_ on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Most of our tanks are warriors, so blood pact is pretty worthless for us.

    End on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Jesuits wrote: »
    Dyscord wrote: »
    it depends on how much +damage you get by taking aegis (depends on amount of spirit, buffs etc.)

    One percent hit is 26 hit rating (26.2 but whatever), so if you assume you can convert hit rating directly into spellpower, suppression adds 75-80 +dmg. Course gear prevents you from doing this sometimes, so that is a consideration too.

    Also, you essentially spend eight talent points to get aegis versus three for suppression, so depending on how you have your destro build set up consider that.

    Here's the build I was thinking about, with the floater point for filling out Destructive Reach, Imp Healthstone, Fel Domination (probably not), or 1/3 Aegis. My lock is only 60 and I'm not going to spec him destro at all for another two levels (fel armor), so I couldn't run any sorts of hard numbers myself. Well, it should be close, either way.

    Assuming we're talking about pve, you can drop soul link. It's sort of useless with an imp out anyway (esp. if you don't take empathy.) Assuming you don't mind having a 33 yard range instead of 36, there's two points in aegis. From there you can do super pve dps by dropping shadowfury, and get both aegis and suppression. Shadowfury's fun, though.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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