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Infinite Crisis kind of sucks

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    HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I like boobs.

    Hensler on
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I think some of the problem is we're to a degree to0 close. If you look at major publications like EW or other review things, they give comics like Identity Crisis or Infinite Crisis pretty good reviews. I don't think the average reader cares about Ted Kord or Fire Strom or Airwave. They pick up the comics because it looks interesting and it spins a good yarn.

    Like me. I used to read comics, then stopped for a long time and only got back into them around Avengers Dissasembled for Marvel and Identity Crisis for DC. I didn't know who the hell have those characters were, most of my comic knowledge came from novels based on those characters (where they reference Spider-Man being a reserve member of the Avengers 8000 times!) So I didn't have any particular attachment to the characters, I just liked the stories.

    Bloods End on
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    awesome_andyawesome_andy Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I thought IC was pretty decent.
    Not for any shining reasons but taking a step back and looking at it I think it turned out decent.
    Also, I thought it said somewhere that The Joker only molested Barbara.
    Oh and made her dad watch too right?

    awesome_andy on
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Er, that had nothing to do with any crisis.

    [spoiler:390d1eff9f]He shot her (paralyzing her), stripped her, took pictures, then showed the pics to her dad.[/spoiler:390d1eff9f]

    Scooter on
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    Toji SuzuharaToji Suzuhara Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    Er, that had nothing to do with any crisis.

    [spoiler:de7cdb8ee0]He shot her (paralyzing her), stripped her, took pictures, then showed the pics to her dad.[/spoiler:de7cdb8ee0]

    Then he put her in a refrigerator.

    ed: Worst TotP ever.

    Toji Suzuhara on
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2006
    I really, really liked Identity Crisis. I thought it was maybe the best mainstream superhero book of the last few years.

    However, I also almost never read any DC stuff and haven't a clue who any of the heroes are outside of the most famous ones, so I have no idea how out-of-character anyone was or how any of it went against continuity. As part of the DC universe it might not fit, but as a story in its own right Identity Crisis is just fantastic.

    Bogart on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    I enjoyed Identity Crisis. I mean, it sucks that Sue was killed off and it was a dumb plot to go with and everything, but man, Brad Meltzer can write some fucking touching dialogue

    Garlic Bread on
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    WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    edited November 2006
    Identity Crisis wasn't terrible if you pretend it was written by Kevin Smith and that the last issue isn't/will never be made

    also

    hello keith

    what is up

    how are you

    Whippy on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    I am doing swell, whipstopher

    I think I will send out your T-shirt by Friday

    i am not sure, though

    i will let you know when I do

    Garlic Bread on
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    WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    edited November 2006
    it's cool, buddy

    whenever

    so how are things going in my posse

    do you guys, like, keep in touch

    or something

    Whippy on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    we've been trying to schedule a meet, but uriel keeps canceling on us

    i don't know why we ever let that guy in!

    Garlic Bread on
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    tsplittertsplitter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    we've been trying to schedule a meet, but uriel keeps canceling on us

    i don't know why we ever let that guy in!

    so you can make fun of him while hes there?

    tsplitter on
    FqmsaJ6.png
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I still say that Jean being the murderer makes perfect sense. The clues are in front of everyone the whole time, but Jean, just like always, gets ignored in favor of chasing some asshat in a cape. Her rationale is silly, but considering that she's a nutball at the time, it's consistent. The only thing that bugs me is where did she get that flamethrower?

    Conditional_Axe on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I also enjoyed Identity Crisis... actually, it's what brought me into DC comics for the most part.

    I can understand why people didn't like it... DC clearly crossed a line. Actually, the fact that so many people recognize that line gives me some hope for humanity. But, as with any artistic medium, lines have to be crossed sometimes.

    Honestly though, my favorite part of the book was Robin, Batman, and Robin's Dad. That had a good emotional payout and was really well done.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Sentry wrote:
    I also enjoyed Identity Crisis... actually, it's what brought me into DC comics for the most part.

    I can understand why people didn't like it... DC clearly crossed a line. Actually, the fact that so many people recognize that line gives me some hope for humanity. But, as with any artistic medium, lines have to be crossed sometimes.

    Honestly though, my favorite part of the book was Robin, Batman, and Robin's Dad. That had a good emotional payout and was really well done.
    That shit with Robin tore my heart out. Robin had the worst two years of anybody ever, really. Between Spoiler, Darla Aquista, his father and his stepmother, his uncle and his best friend all dying and another close friend taking a Lazarus Pit bath and going psycho insane, all in such a short period of time, I can't believe brother didn't crack.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Then his new fake dad found a real son.

    deadonthestreet on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Then his new fake dad found a real son.
    a real son who threw the fake son off a cliff, because that's the ninja way.

    Oh, and the wannabe kid hero who was following him around trying to become his new sidekick, he's in a coma. I'm really surprised that the dude in this last issue didn't jump off the building.

    Hell, he might as well just shove this Zoanne girl into a fridge right now, to get a head start.

    I'm telling you, Tim Drake is Kyle Rayner Jr.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    Red or AliveRed or Alive Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Sentry wrote:
    I also enjoyed Identity Crisis... actually, it's what brought me into DC comics for the most part.

    I can understand why people didn't like it... DC clearly crossed a line. Actually, the fact that so many people recognize that line gives me some hope for humanity. But, as with any artistic medium, lines have to be crossed sometimes.

    Honestly though, my favorite part of the book was Robin, Batman, and Robin's Dad. That had a good emotional payout and was really well done.
    That shit with Robin tore my heart out. Robin had the worst two years of anybody ever, really. Between Spoiler, Darla Aquista, his father and his stepmother, his uncle and his best friend all dying and another close friend taking a Lazarus Pit bath and going psycho insane, all in such a short period of time, I can't believe brother didn't crack.

    Have they even addressed the fact that he's had the single worst run of luck for a DCU superhero (which is saying something) head on?

    Red or Alive on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Have they even addressed the fact that he's had the single worst run of luck for a DCU superhero (which is saying something) head on?
    This past issue of Robin deals with it a bit, and it crops up occasionally in Teen Titans.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Yeah, he confided in Conner first, then the rest of the Titans.

    Then they killed Conner. Because, hey, fuck Tim Drake, apparently.

    He's like the DCU whipping boy... which might be one of the reasons that he is my favorite DC hero right now.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    Zodiac BraveZodiac Brave Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    Bad Karma wrote:
    hughtron wrote:
    It's because rape and death and grim and gritty sells.

    But it's a double edged sword my friend, often times, and I know it's hard to understand, but 'lighthearted fun' books don't always sell either.

    Here's the thing. I don't think a book being lighthearted or um.. darkhearted (?) alone will sell a book. The content, creative team, starring character(s), and quality will. Green Arrow, Blue Beetle, Firestorm, and Robin have all been doing around 35k at best in sales, and 19-20k at worst lately, even though they've had an HIV positive character starring, a guy get shot and crippled, an abusive one-armed father (okay I've only read the first few issues of Firestorm so I have no idea what's going on in there lately so feel free to discount this), and an ally turning evil and murdering people. I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League? 40k+ on every issue, without any major pushes, tie-ins, or OYL-style events to promote it. The problem is that, from where I'm standing, DC editorial seems to keep making blanket statements that fun doesn't sell, ever, ever, ever, and using the very experimental Plastic Man book to justify that statement. They seem to forget that Young Justice and JLI both outsold a lot of the other books being offered at the time they were being published.
    Statment: If Grant Morrison were the one to have Sue raped and killed, nobody would be complaining about it right now.

    Doubtful. Fans of every medium love to bitch about stuff. Right now I'm sure people are bitching about Prison Break, Lost, the newest R.A. Salvatore or George R.R. Martin books, or the startling turn that's taken place in Garfield. Plus, Morrison hopefully wouldn't have done it in such an obviously exploitative way, and due to his large background in groundbreaking comics, would have likely been extended a bit more good will. But hell, I didn't really even like Morrison up until a few months ago when I read some Seven Soldiers.

    I know this is a page old, but obviously exploitative? The rape in Identity Crisis was really well-handled and incredibly subtle (I wasn't even entirely sure that she was raped at first), and I can't believe it's being blown so out of proportion both in this thread and by that woman who apparently worked for DC Comics.

    Zodiac Brave on
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    What happened in Identity Crisis is unforgivable because it made Kevin Smith turn his Spider-Man Black Cat mini from fun to raperaperape.

    Bloods End on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I think that there some instances where it's not the presentation that's exploitative inherently, but the subject matter. This is one of them. Though it wasn't depicted in graphic detail, it was rape and it was a character specifically chosen to be raped because of what she represented. That's exploitative.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    Zodiac BraveZodiac Brave Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I think that there some instances where it's not the presentation that's exploitative inherently, but the subject matter. This is one of them. Though it wasn't depicted in graphic detail, it was rape and it was a character specifically chosen to be raped because of what she represented. That's exploitative.

    I suppose so, but defiling all of the classic "light stuff" was kind of the whole point of the story as well as Infinite Crisis. Which apparently makes people mad, but w/e lols.

    Zodiac Brave on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    Sentry wrote:
    I also enjoyed Identity Crisis... actually, it's what brought me into DC comics for the most part.

    I can understand why people didn't like it... DC clearly crossed a line. Actually, the fact that so many people recognize that line gives me some hope for humanity. But, as with any artistic medium, lines have to be crossed sometimes.

    Honestly though, my favorite part of the book was Robin, Batman, and Robin's Dad. That had a good emotional payout and was really well done.
    That shit with Robin tore my heart out. Robin had the worst two years of anybody ever, really. Between Spoiler, Darla Aquista, his father and his stepmother, his uncle and his best friend all dying and another close friend taking a Lazarus Pit bath and going psycho insane, all in such a short period of time, I can't believe brother didn't crack.

    What uncle? The Bludhaven one?

    Because he made that one up.

    Garlic Bread on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    Sentry wrote:
    I also enjoyed Identity Crisis... actually, it's what brought me into DC comics for the most part.

    I can understand why people didn't like it... DC clearly crossed a line. Actually, the fact that so many people recognize that line gives me some hope for humanity. But, as with any artistic medium, lines have to be crossed sometimes.

    Honestly though, my favorite part of the book was Robin, Batman, and Robin's Dad. That had a good emotional payout and was really well done.
    That shit with Robin tore my heart out. Robin had the worst two years of anybody ever, really. Between Spoiler, Darla Aquista, his father and his stepmother, his uncle and his best friend all dying and another close friend taking a Lazarus Pit bath and going psycho insane, all in such a short period of time, I can't believe brother didn't crack.

    What uncle? The Bludhaven one?

    Because he made that one up.
    Oh hell, you're right. I totally forgot.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    But yeah

    he's probably next on the "get raped" list

    Garlic Bread on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    But yeah

    he's probably next on the "get raped" list
    I say Wonder Girl will do it.

    Or Jericho.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    But yeah

    he's probably next on the "get raped" list
    I say Wonder Girl will do it.

    Or Jericho.

    Drunken Bruce Wayne, perhaps?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    RocielRociel Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    See, this is something I don't like. The whole point of Tim Drake is that he wasn't Reobin becasue of some great tragedy, he was Robin because he wanted to be. Also, now a load of women are fawning over him. Another big point of Tim was that he wasn't a ladies man like Dick. He was meant to be an aqward nerd. Now he's not really that different from Dick Grayson. Not saying that Tim can't have his down days, I'm just saying I don't want one of my favourite characters to become a carbon copy of another character who once had the same name (although judging by what they did with Bart, I'm not hopeful).

    Rociel on
    Too big sig. 500x80 plzkthx.
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Rociel wrote:
    See, this is something I don't like. The whole point of Tim Drake is that he wasn't Reobin becasue of some great tragedy, he was Robin because he wanted to be. Also, now a load of women are fawning over him. Another big point of Tim was that he wasn't a ladies man like Dick. He was meant to be an aqward nerd. Now he's not really that different from Dick Grayson. Not saying that Tim can't have his down days, I'm just saying I don't want one of my favourite characters to become a carbon copy of another character who once had the same name (although judging by what they did with Bart, I'm not hopeful).
    the tragedies don't affect his origin. he's still Robin because he wants to be. he's still not batman jr. he just grew up real fast.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    the tragedies thing isn't new

    while he was training to be Robin, his mom was murdered and his dad was put in a coma

    Also, he's still not a ladies' man. They all want him, but he's gay for Conner Cock

    Garlic Bread on
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    Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    They seem to forget that Young Justice and JLI both outsold a lot of the other books being offered at the time they were being published.

    Yeah, until Giff and co. left and the book entered...

    90's hell.

    Bad Karma on
    Xbox Live: Ornery Rooster
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    tsplittertsplitter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    the tragedies thing isn't new

    while he was training to be Robin, his mom was murdered and his dad was put in a coma

    Also, he's still not a ladies' man. They all want him, but he's gay for Conner Cock

    well, he was

    tsplitter on
    FqmsaJ6.png
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    tsplitter wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    the tragedies thing isn't new

    while he was training to be Robin, his mom was murdered and his dad was put in a coma

    Also, he's still not a ladies' man. They all want him, but he's gay for Conner Cock

    well, he was

    Nope, he's still trying to get it

    Garlic Bread on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    tsplitter wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    the tragedies thing isn't new

    while he was training to be Robin, his mom was murdered and his dad was put in a coma

    Also, he's still not a ladies' man. They all want him, but he's gay for Conner Cock

    well, he was

    Nope, he's still trying to get it

    I'm waiting for Connor to be successfully resurrected/cloned and saying "what the fuck is wrong with you people?" to everybody.

    Fencingsax on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    tsplitter wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    the tragedies thing isn't new

    while he was training to be Robin, his mom was murdered and his dad was put in a coma

    Also, he's still not a ladies' man. They all want him, but he's gay for Conner Cock

    well, he was

    Nope, he's still trying to get it

    I'm waiting for Connor to be successfully resurrected/cloned and saying "what the fuck is wrong with you people?" to everybody.

    then he'll trick Wonder Girl and Ravager into fucking him at the same time

    Garlic Bread on
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    Sars_BoySars_Boy Rest, You Are The Lightning. Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    tsplitter wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    the tragedies thing isn't new

    while he was training to be Robin, his mom was murdered and his dad was put in a coma

    Also, he's still not a ladies' man. They all want him, but he's gay for Conner Cock

    well, he was

    Nope, he's still trying to get it

    I'm waiting for Connor to be successfully resurrected/cloned and saying "what the fuck is wrong with you people?" to everybody.

    then he'll trick Wonder Girl and Ravager into fucking him at the same time

    Haha, Kon hasn't been written like that in years.

    Good one.

    [spoiler:998870a924]Oh god I wish he was still a pretentious dick who wouldn't shut up about his Tactical Telek-WE KNOW![/spoiler:998870a924]

    Sars_Boy on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Sars_Boy wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    tsplitter wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    the tragedies thing isn't new

    while he was training to be Robin, his mom was murdered and his dad was put in a coma

    Also, he's still not a ladies' man. They all want him, but he's gay for Conner Cock

    well, he was

    Nope, he's still trying to get it

    I'm waiting for Connor to be successfully resurrected/cloned and saying "what the fuck is wrong with you people?" to everybody.

    then he'll trick Wonder Girl and Ravager into fucking him at the same time

    Haha, Kon hasn't been written like that in years.
    Well, except for the hot tub scene in that one S/B issue.

    Conditional_Axe on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I know this is a page old, but obviously exploitative? The rape in Identity Crisis was really well-handled and incredibly subtle (I wasn't even entirely sure that she was raped at first), and I can't believe it's being blown so out of proportion both in this thread and by that woman who apparently worked for DC Comics.

    According to the former DC employee, who you can choose to believe or not, Meltzer was specifically tapped, and then instructed, to put as much "sensationalist" stuff as possible into the story. So he killed some people, he raped someone, and DC used his big best-selling novelist name, and the idea of, "Biff! Bam! Pow! Comics aren't just for kids anymore!" to sell comics. I wouldn't have such big objections to the rape if it was even done in the present, so we could have seen the immediate ramifications of the act, and if Sue was left alive, see how it affected her and those she interacted with. As is, DC and Meltzer basically asked us to accept that Sue got raped, that nobody ever, ever talked about it, and that she took it so goddamn well that there was never any single indication of it taking place. Well goddamn, if only all rape victims could be the unflappable pillar of strength that Sue was.

    And I still think thaty the depiction of the scene, particularly Light's little lightshow where you see him behind her drooling and slobbering as she screams and cries, with Light himself lolling his tongue out of his mouth, was a fucked up thing to draw.

    Munch on
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