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Infinite Crisis kind of sucks

1235

Posts

  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Sars_Boy wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    tsplitter wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    the tragedies thing isn't new

    while he was training to be Robin, his mom was murdered and his dad was put in a coma

    Also, he's still not a ladies' man. They all want him, but he's gay for Conner Cock

    well, he was

    Nope, he's still trying to get it

    I'm waiting for Connor to be successfully resurrected/cloned and saying "what the fuck is wrong with you people?" to everybody.

    then he'll trick Wonder Girl and Ravager into fucking him at the same time

    Haha, Kon hasn't been written like that in years.
    Well, except for the hot tub scene in that one S/B issue.

    Wern't those robots? It's not cheating if it's a robot.

    Hensler on
  • Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Hensler wrote:
    Wern't those robots? It's not cheating if it's a robot.
    Is that so?

    *froogles 'Starfire Robot'*

    Conditional_Axe on
  • Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    I know this is a page old, but obviously exploitative? The rape in Identity Crisis was really well-handled and incredibly subtle (I wasn't even entirely sure that she was raped at first), and I can't believe it's being blown so out of proportion both in this thread and by that woman who apparently worked for DC Comics.

    According to the former DC employee, who you can choose to believe or not, Meltzer was specifically tapped, and then instructed, to put as much "sensationalist" stuff as possible into the story. So he killed some people, he raped someone, and DC used his big best-selling novelist name, and the idea of, "Biff! Bam! Pow! Comics aren't just for kids anymore!" to sell comics. I wouldn't have such big objections to the rape if it was even done in the present, so we could have seen the immediate ramifications of the act, and if Sue was left alive, see how it affected her and those she interacted with. As is, DC and Meltzer basically asked us to accept that Sue got raped, that nobody ever, ever talked about it, and that she took it so goddamn well that there was never any single indication of it taking place. Well goddamn, if only all rape victims could be the unflappable pillar of strength that Sue was.

    And I still think thaty the depiction of the scene, particularly Light's little lightshow where you see him behind her drooling and slobbering as she screams and cries, with Light himself lolling his tongue out of his mouth, was a fucked up thing to draw.
    I'm trying to figure out whether you're more outraged at the idea that editorial staff creates content for a shared universe, that big-name writers are writing comics, that the act itself happened, or that the act itself is a retcon.

    It's entirely possible that IdC sold well because it was good/people enjoyed it, and not because of some dark conspiracy to make kids love rape or whatever. But that may be a bit too Occam's Razor.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    I know this is a page old, but obviously exploitative? The rape in Identity Crisis was really well-handled and incredibly subtle (I wasn't even entirely sure that she was raped at first), and I can't believe it's being blown so out of proportion both in this thread and by that woman who apparently worked for DC Comics.

    According to the former DC employee, who you can choose to believe or not, Meltzer was specifically tapped, and then instructed, to put as much "sensationalist" stuff as possible into the story. So he killed some people, he raped someone, and DC used his big best-selling novelist name, and the idea of, "Biff! Bam! Pow! Comics aren't just for kids anymore!" to sell comics. I wouldn't have such big objections to the rape if it was even done in the present, so we could have seen the immediate ramifications of the act, and if Sue was left alive, see how it affected her and those she interacted with. As is, DC and Meltzer basically asked us to accept that Sue got raped, that nobody ever, ever talked about it, and that she took it so goddamn well that there was never any single indication of it taking place. Well goddamn, if only all rape victims could be the unflappable pillar of strength that Sue was.

    And I still think thaty the depiction of the scene, particularly Light's little lightshow where you see him behind her drooling and slobbering as she screams and cries, with Light himself lolling his tongue out of his mouth, was a fucked up thing to draw.
    I'm trying to figure out whether you're more outraged at the idea that editorial staff creates content for a shared universe, that big-name writers are writing comics, that the act itself happened, or that the act itself is a retcon.

    It's entirely possible that IdC sold well because it was good/people enjoyed it, and not because of some dark conspiracy to make kids love rape or whatever. But that may be a bit too Occam's Razor.

    Somebody got raped with a razor? I need to read that.

    Hensler on
  • Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Hensler wrote:
    Munch wrote:
    I know this is a page old, but obviously exploitative? The rape in Identity Crisis was really well-handled and incredibly subtle (I wasn't even entirely sure that she was raped at first), and I can't believe it's being blown so out of proportion both in this thread and by that woman who apparently worked for DC Comics.

    According to the former DC employee, who you can choose to believe or not, Meltzer was specifically tapped, and then instructed, to put as much "sensationalist" stuff as possible into the story. So he killed some people, he raped someone, and DC used his big best-selling novelist name, and the idea of, "Biff! Bam! Pow! Comics aren't just for kids anymore!" to sell comics. I wouldn't have such big objections to the rape if it was even done in the present, so we could have seen the immediate ramifications of the act, and if Sue was left alive, see how it affected her and those she interacted with. As is, DC and Meltzer basically asked us to accept that Sue got raped, that nobody ever, ever talked about it, and that she took it so goddamn well that there was never any single indication of it taking place. Well goddamn, if only all rape victims could be the unflappable pillar of strength that Sue was.

    And I still think thaty the depiction of the scene, particularly Light's little lightshow where you see him behind her drooling and slobbering as she screams and cries, with Light himself lolling his tongue out of his mouth, was a fucked up thing to draw.
    I'm trying to figure out whether you're more outraged at the idea that editorial staff creates content for a shared universe, that big-name writers are writing comics, that the act itself happened, or that the act itself is a retcon.

    It's entirely possible that IdC sold well because it was good/people enjoyed it, and not because of some dark conspiracy to make kids love rape or whatever. But that may be a bit too Occam's Razor.

    Somebody got raped with a razor? I need to read that.
    It was pretty xtrm. It proved to me that comic books could be for immature teens, not just adults.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm trying to figure out whether you're more outraged at the idea that editorial staff creates content for a shared universe, that big-name writers are writing comics, that the act itself happened, or that the act itself is a retcon.

    You obviously don't realize I can be angry at many things at once. Seriously though, I was responding as to why I thought it was done in an exploitative, sensationalist fashion. A story was crafted by editorial around the idea of the rape and murder of a "nice" female character to darken up the DCU, added nothing to Sue Dibny's character, especially as it was retconned into a place where it couldn't rationally fit if you looked at the character's history, they treated it in a mostly insensitive fashion where the message was basically, "Well hey if you get raped look, there will be no negative consequences to your personality at all!" and then gave it to a big name writer so that mainstream media would grace the lowly comics industry with its attention.

    Here's the thing, if someone wrote a story where Superman got drugged by Luthor, was sodomized and forced to perform oral sex, then it was revealed to happen the day before his marriage to Lois, and then they got Stephen King to write it, wouldn't people consider that pretty fucked up and retarded? That's my stance on the Sue Dibny rape. I enjoyed most of the other stuff though, especially Booster and Beetle heading up a posse. That was keen.

    Munch on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    I want to know why they didn't mindwipe Sue

    Garlic Bread on
  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    IC was fine for the most part. They could have tried to contain things a little more though when it came to the extra comics. Hard on the wallet, for example, when you have to go out of your way to score issues of Superman and Wonder Woman thanks to them not being able to keep OMAC-Project's story contained inside of it's mini-series.

    Oh, and while this is could be concidered a late responce to an earlier post here in this thread, I felt I had to share it with you, especially since some of you were thinking of it. Ho-ho-ho, everyone.

    elpha.gif

    Owenashi on
  • Zodiac BraveZodiac Brave Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    I want to know why they didn't mindwipe Sue

    And then rape her again

    and again

    and again

    Each rape heralding another mindwipe.

    Zodiac Brave on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    I want to know why they didn't mindwipe Sue

    And then rape her again

    and again

    and again

    Each rape heralding another mindwipe.
    :shock:

    robosagogo on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    I want to know why they didn't mindwipe Sue

    And then rape her again

    and again

    and again

    Each rape heralding another mindwipe.

    Which is, ironically, the exact same process I went through each time I bought the Spider-Man/Black Cat mini referred to above.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    I want to know why they didn't mindwipe Sue

    And then rape her again

    and again

    and again

    Each rape heralding another mindwipe.
    :shock:

    That's fucking horrific.

    I laughed.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Keith wrote:
    I want to know why they didn't mindwipe Sue

    And then rape her again

    and again

    and again

    Each rape heralding another mindwipe.

    Congrats, you just wrote the next major event story for DC. Current working titles include Rapeapalooza, Rapefest '07, and How the Didio Stole Christmas.

    Munch on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Forar wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    I want to know why they didn't mindwipe Sue

    And then rape her again

    and again

    and again

    Each rape heralding another mindwipe.
    :shock:

    That's fucking horrific.

    I laughed.

    I laughed too hard at that.

    I felt dirty.

    Then I felt the urge to go look for fanfics

    Scooter on
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Is it possible to..I don't know..end the rape fixation soon? Im starting to feel bad, as I keep picturing some poor lurker crying his / her eyes out after being traumatized by a past experience. I don't really mind, I mean..I sat through many episodes of Oz without flinching, but..sheesh.

    As Munch would put it...too much rapesauce.

    Bad Karma on
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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    I could go back to talking about Captain Marvel's cock

    oh wait

    what if he raped someone

    :O

    Garlic Bread on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Bad Karma wrote:
    Is it possible to..I don't know..end the rape fixation soon? Im starting to feel bad, as I keep picturing some poor lurker crying his / her eyes out after being traumatized by a past experience. I don't really mind, I mean..I sat through many episodes of Oz without flinching, but..sheesh.

    As Munch would put it...too much rapesauce.
    I think Identity Crisis is pretty far removed from any real rape experience anyone may have had. I mean most rapes aren't committed by maniacal home invaders, much less people with fins on their heads.

    robosagogo on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    When you think about it, rape should probably be a lot more common in the comic world than it is. I mean, how many times has a villain had a superheroine tied up for hours, even days, and not done anything? And a lot of these guys are basically thugs, so it's not like it's that far beneath them or something.

    Hey, let's list all the comic rapes

    Sue

    Black Cat

    Jessica Jones

    Sunspot

    Scooter on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    When you think about it, rape should probably be a lot more common in the comic world than it is. I mean, how many times has a villain had a superheroine tied up for hours, even days, and not done anything? And a lot of these guys are basically thugs, so it's not like it's that far beneath them or something.

    Hey, let's list all the comic rapes

    Sue

    Black Cat

    Jessica Jones

    Sunspot

    Nightwing

    Maybe Invincible's Mom

    Almost Animal Man's wife

    She-Hulk (unless a recent issue changed that)

    robosagogo on
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I've got you all beat.

    Google is amazing.

    Bad Karma on
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  • Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Bad Karma wrote:
    Is it possible to..I don't know..end the rape fixation soon? Im starting to feel bad, as I keep picturing some poor lurker crying his / her eyes out after being traumatized by a past experience. I don't really mind, I mean..I sat through many episodes of Oz without flinching, but..sheesh.

    As Munch would put it...too much rapesauce.
    Munch wouldn't put it that way. It would be a long and agonizing post in which he snidely called for more rapes to increase sales and demanded the head of L Ron be used to perpetrate one of them after the character is gruesomely murdered because fun comics don't sell, only murderrape comics, in fact let's change DC's name to MR comics, providing the best murderrape in the industry for a bargain price of 3.99 an issue, dandidiobluebeetledidiomustdiebluebettledidioquestioncancerjlikillrage.

    But I agree with you on the larger issue.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    The Engineer got raped twice? How did I miss/forget that

    Scooter on
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Clear List:

    Sandra Woosan/Lady Shiva

    No shit.

    Bad Karma on
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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    When you think about it, rape should probably be a lot more common in the comic world than it is. I mean, how many times has a villain had a superheroine tied up for hours, even days, and not done anything? And a lot of these guys are basically thugs, so it's not like it's that far beneath them or something.

    I was actually thinking the other day how, if I ever get around to starting up a superhero webcomic I've been plotting out for the past couple years or so, I'd love to have a scene where a superheroine is captured and is like, "You're not going to rape me are you?" And the supervillain just gets really offended, and talks about how those rumors about that time he kidnapped that sidekick were complete bullshit made up by that asshole Destroyer Man because he didn't return his death ray, and talking about how he can get laid anytime he wants because goddammit that hottie the Deadly Moth has been all over his junk, finally culminating in him just getting pissed with the whole situation and leaving in a huff.
    Munch wouldn't put it that way. It would be a long and agonizing post in which he snidely called for more rapes to increase sales and demanded the head of L Ron be used to perpetrate one of them after the character is gruesomely murdered because fun comics don't sell, only murderrape comics, in fact let's change DC's name to MR comics, providing the best murderrape in the industry for a bargain price of 3.99 an issue, dandidiobluebeetledidiomustdiebluebettledidioquestioncancerjlikillrage.

    Man, how'd Question's cancer get in there? I talked about that once, like the day the issue came out. But yeah, I'd totally do all the other stuff, and not be facetious or hyperbolic about it at all.

    Edit: On that sexual assault list, what are they defining it as? Because some of those, like Secret, and Mia, are kind of tenuous at best.

    Munch on
  • Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    Man, how'd Question's cancer get in there? I talked about that once, like the day the issue came out.
    I was on a roll.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    It's come close so far, but I'm sure we'll see some rape in The Boys. It may have already happened - I'm an issue or two behind.

    Hensler on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    I was raped once

    when I paged through Guy Gardner: Collateral Damage

    Garlic Bread on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    How was that Keith? I'll usually stop to page through comics that look godawful, but this week I just didn't have the heart to. The tag-team combination of Guy Gardner and Onslaught Reborn actually sent me stumbling away from the new release shelf coughing and choking on pure terribleness.

    Munch on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    I will say this: when I was flipping through identity crisis, I didn't even realize that what Light had done was rape.

    But then again, I'm oblivious.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Bad Karma on
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  • JordynJordyn Really, Commander? Probing Uranus. Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Wasn't there a shot that vaguely showed a chunk of Sue's pants missing?

    That was a really stupid shot.

    Jordyn on
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  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I couldn't find that first example of the Engineer they listed, but the second was just mindcontrolling. If that counts as rape then the list ought to be gigantic, which makes me wonder about some more on the list.

    I also somehow missed that Spider-Woman was naked in Thunderbolts 12. But then, with her costume just changing colors between red and skintone is really the only difference. :?

    Scooter on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    How was that Keith? I'll usually stop to page through comics that look godawful, but this week I just didn't have the heart to. The tag-team combination of Guy Gardner and Onslaught Reborn actually sent me stumbling away from the new release shelf coughing and choking on pure terribleness.

    I didn't read it. I hate just reading parts of books

    I looked at the art and promptly shot myself in the face

    Garlic Bread on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited November 2006
    I will say this: when I was flipping through identity crisis, I didn't even realize that what Light had done was rape.

    It was in the butt. You couldn't relate.

    Garlic Bread on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    When you think about it, rape should probably be a lot more common in the comic world than it is. I mean, how many times has a villain had a superheroine tied up for hours, even days, and not done anything? And a lot of these guys are basically thugs, so it's not like it's that far beneath them or something.

    Hey, let's list all the comic rapes

    Sue

    Black Cat

    Jessica Jones

    Sunspot

    Jessica Jones? When?

    Bogart on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Purple Man never actually had intercourse with her, but he did keep her around for weeks (months?), barely dressed, making her serve his whims, and making her watch while he raped other women. Oh, and making her want him to have sex with her (and then denying her). Close enough to rape for me.


    Purple Man is the Dr. Light of Marvel.

    Scooter on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I've heard that every other Wonder Woman pitch is about her getting raped.

    I guess it makes sense. The entire point of raping superheroes seems to be the jarring image of a paragon of strength stripped and humiliated, with bonus points being awarded if the perpetrator is somebody who has been or would be regarded as weak and second-rate. Given that, I imagine there are some writers who think that they can improve their rape scenarios by using stronger heroes and weaker villains to increase the shock of the reader.

    So yeah, it's only a matter of time before Diana Prince gets raped by an inbred hillbilly with a water pistol.

    robosagogo on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Jordyn wrote:
    Wasn't there a shot that vaguely showed a chunk of Sue's pants missing?

    That was a really stupid shot.

    I was going to note that but I was afraid I was making the scene out to be more graphic in my mind than it was. But I'm pretty sure that when Ralph is cradling her against him after bashing Light in the skull, you can see a hole torn in her pants.

    I'm really hoping that Ralph eventually just decides, "Hey, you know what? Fuck this guy," and hunts down Light and murders him. But that makes me wonder, why did Ralph, who didn't know about Light's mindwipe, not do everything in his power to keep Light in jail after all the times he broke out? You'd think he'd devote a large portion of his superheroing to just picking on Light. And why didn't Ralph or Sue ever address Kimiyo Hoshi taking on the identity of a rapist?

    I hate sloppy retcons.

    Munch on
  • Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    And why didn't Ralph or Sue ever address Kimiyo Hoshi taking on the identity of a rapist?

    I hate sloppy retcons.

    Ralph had high hopes it would be reversed. I mean..let's face it, Sue wasn't getting any younger.

    Bad Karma on
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  • JordynJordyn Really, Commander? Probing Uranus. Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    Jordyn wrote:
    Wasn't there a shot that vaguely showed a chunk of Sue's pants missing?

    That was a really stupid shot.

    I was going to note that but I was afraid I was making the scene out to be more graphic in my mind than it was. But I'm pretty sure that when Ralph is cradling her against him after bashing Light in the skull, you can see a hole torn in her pants.

    Man, that is so stupid. It's like that was supposed to make it clear that she was raped. Instead I'm sitting there going "what kind of stupid fucking rapist rips a hole in the chick's pants?" I mean fuck, why not just put her in a skirt so at least the scene doesn't look so retarded?

    Jordyn on
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