I would expect this to be built in with the controller in a future revision. But it's stupid to whine at Nintendo for not having it in at launch, we don't know the situation. Maybe it just took them too long to develop it.
I would expect this to be built in with the controller in a future revision. But it's stupid to whine at Nintendo for not having it in at launch, we don't know the situation. Maybe it just took them too long to develop it.
According to this thread, it didn't exist back when the Wiimote was out.
edit: according to Wikipedia, Miyamoto said they couldn't buy the invensense device in sufficient quantities and at their target price to put it in the original Wiimote.
I would expect this to be built in with the controller in a future revision. But it's stupid to whine at Nintendo for not having it in at launch, we don't know the situation. Maybe it just took them too long to develop it.
Quote from first page:
Once again. Error-free* gyroscope that MotionPlus was very expensive piece of equipment back in 2004. In addition of costing more than 100 dollars per pop, it was also heavy and had very, very bad energy consumption. In practice, these gyroscopes were only used by scientific and industrial circles, and there was no mass produced version. Last year, company called InvenSense made rather drastic innovation in the field, and was able to cut gyroscopes production cost into tenth of the original, and reduce power consumption. MotionPlus is practically first mass marketed device of its kind, but it is believed InvenSense has caused revolution in motion detection by being higher level technology cheap enough to be used. We can except motion based interfaces meant for special purposes, like engineers and handicapped.
* As you move gyroscope around, it starts to lose its precision as errors cumulate. When this happens, gyroscope needs to be recalibrated. In normal gyroscope, this happens in 2 seconds or less (a.k.a completely worthless for gaming). The gyroscope that MotionPlus uses can last even two minutes without re-calibration.
It is worth noticing that Nintendo didn't bought exclusive rights for InvenSense's technology, so we can except other consoles take advantage of this eventually. I guess that price asked was simply too high.
Except they have yet to re-release a game from the same console with added features in the US.
My point was, the consoles that can patch still have games that don't work with newer add-ons.
Yes I know this. But the thing is some games have had patches that allow newer addons. (Like RB1 which eventually got the patch and GH3) And I'm not saying that Nintendo would release "Mario Tennis Now with Motion Plus!" But I could see them releasing "Mario Tennis 2 with a couple of more characters and courts and Motion Plus!" instead of just releasing a patch.
Uno on xbox was patched later to use Live Avatars, Lots of playstation games were patched later to provide trophies and some youtube upload and custom soundtracks. Its not unheard of to patch games later for things that weren't originally supported.
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
Well, that'd raise the price. They're selling the reports at 20$, so any extra work is going to jack the price up when they're trying to get a larger market to look at 'old' GC games.
You only see shit like that on the PC, and even then only by modders.
It isn't going to happen.
Lest we forget: Lair (lolz) got patched to add analog stick control months and months after release. There's a precedent, however dubious it may be.
Crying over spilt milk on Wiimote tech is a little silly, but I do genuinely wonder how widespread MotionPlus tech will become. Like, gamers are excited about MP because it'll make the Wiimote into essentially what the marketing material for the Wii launch promised us it would be ... but I'd wager most mainstream Wii users are already pretty content with the Wii's motion capabilities. How do you sell "true motion control" to people who already have their version of true motion control? Especially if, say, Wii Sports Resort comes with one MP pack but Nintendo wants you to buy three more packs for other games.
It'll come with a couple of big games (Pak came with DK64 in US and Majora in Japan), then a couple of big titles will support it. Stragglers can buy it for cheap at the store.
They just have to have a good pack in and they'll be set (and if it comes standard with newer wiimotes and wiis, it will get marketshare by default)
FyreWulff on
0
DVGNo. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered Userregular
A lot of the mainstream crowd heard of the Wii and Wii Sports through news on TV or their gamer relatives rather than actual publicity. If the news start making coverage on Wii MotionPlus and the new EA Tennis game (finally a true tennis game bla bla) and Wii Sports Resort (now you have a bunch of new sports to play with your Wii etc), they could get a good installbase.
You only see shit like that on the PC, and even then only by modders.
It isn't going to happen.
I guess thats true if its a completely new control type. I had previously thought it was just improved/refinement on the technology already in the wiimotes. But after reading the last few posts it seems that it now includes a gyroscope which it didn't have before. (?)
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
A lot of the mainstream crowd heard of the Wii and Wii Sports through news on TV or their gamer relatives rather than actual publicity. If the news start making coverage on Wii MotionPlus and the new EA Tennis game (finally a true tennis game bla bla) and Wii Sports Resort (now you have a bunch of new sports to play with your Wii etc), they could get a good installbase.
That and it's a permanent upgrade like the Expansion Pak, not an addon like the balance board. I mean, they have a new jacket for Wiimotes with Motionplus on them, which indicates that you're supposed to put it on and leave it on.
The only problem with it so far is that it might make it awkward to use the wiimote like an NES controller.
Also this isn't new in the games industry, Microsoft managed to change their controller halfway through their generation.
I guess thats true if its a completely new control type. I had previously thought it was just improved/refinement on the technology already in the wiimotes. But after reading the last few posts it seems that it now includes a gyroscope which it didn't have before. (?)
Yup. In the past, contrary to common belief, Wiimote only relied on accelerometers to handle motions. Now, so far as a software is concerned, MotionPlus turns wiimote into item with real physical dimensions, weight, start and end.
There seems to be a lot of excitement about trying to make the device perfectly model real life situations when those situations can just be enjoyed in real life. Games, to me, have always been an opportunity to do that which I am unable or unwilling to do in real life.
I enjoyed Wii Tennis a great deal, but it was fun because we could pick it up and play it and then go on to something else. It's intuitiveness of control but on the whole unrealism is what made it great. If you get to the point where it's literally "This works exactly like it does in real life. Whatever imperfections exist in your play are modeled in the game." then I'd rather just go play actual Tennis (which is something I enjoy a great deal).
The same would ring true in a Zelda game, where whatever you do with the wiimote up to and including chopping your leg off are modeled in the game, then it's not the same game to me anymore. It's now DVG somehow got ahold of a sword, and despite his inexperience is going to try and rescue a princess, instead of the Heroic, well-trained Hero of Destiny Link doing so.
I guess maybe I don't get it, but I still want there to be that fantastical element to the game, where I'm cool with the control being easy to understand and use (Swing remote, Link swings sword), but it seems to be an inversion of what should happen when it's 1:1 (Swing remote, Link swings sword the exact same way, arc, and distance) because, at that point, I'm not playing as Link, Link is playing as me, and I think I would find myself unequal to beating most villains in a sword fight.
Have you played tennis before? I'm sure that a Motionplus tennis game is going to be a lot easier to learn and play no matter how realistic it can be.
MikeRyu on
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DVGNo. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered Userregular
Also this isn't new in the games industry, Microsoft managed to change their controller halfway through their generation.
Not really the same thing. The Controller S was the same controller with a more comfortable form factor and better button layout. It did not fragment the user base in any way, require games be developed with it in mind specifically (or ignored) or add any functionality whatsoever to the controller.
DVG on
Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
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DVGNo. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered Userregular
There seems to be a lot of excitement about trying to make the device perfectly model real life situations when those situations can just be enjoyed in real life. Games, to me, have always been an opportunity to do that which I am unable or unwilling to do in real life.
I enjoyed Wii Tennis a great deal, but it was fun because we could pick it up and play it and then go on to something else. It's intuitiveness of control but on the whole unrealism is what made it great. If you get to the point where it's literally "This works exactly like it does in real life. Whatever imperfections exist in your play are modeled in the game." then I'd rather just go play actual Tennis (which is something I enjoy a great deal).
The same would ring true in a Zelda game, where whatever you do with the wiimote up to and including chopping your leg off are modeled in the game, then it's not the same game to me anymore. It's now DVG somehow got ahold of a sword, and despite his inexperience is going to try and rescue a princess, instead of the Heroic, well-trained Hero of Destiny Link doing so.
I guess maybe I don't get it, but I still want there to be that fantastical element to the game, where I'm cool with the control being easy to understand and use (Swing remote, Link swings sword), but it seems to be an inversion of what should happen when it's 1:1 (Swing remote, Link swings sword the exact same way, arc, and distance) because, at that point, I'm not playing as Link, Link is playing as me, and I think I would find myself unequal to beating most villains in a sword fight.
Did you watch the Tiger Woods video? They were swinging pretty lazily and hitting the ball hundreds of feet.
From what I can see it translates the angles and subtleties pretty well without requiring an actual Tiger Woods level of precision and swing power. It really is a fantasy. In fact that's exactly what you were talking about, it's not "DVG somehow got ahold of a golf club but doesn't belong at PGA," it's "you are Tiger Woods and can hit the ball really far without much effort."
Though to be honest I would be pretty interested in a mode where it does translate your motions into real world physics for no other reason than the novelty.
Have you played tennis before? I'm sure that a Motionplus tennis game is going to be a lot easier to learn and play no matter how realistic it can be.
Yes, I said as much in my post.
But you still think that it'll be just as difficult to play as the real thing?
Of course not.
We have
1. The Wiimote which provides Acceptable Realism
and
2. Doing the actual activity which provides Actual Realism.
The Motion Plus is an effort to provide hardware which bridges the gap between the two, to something we'll call Greater Realism. However, doing so requires extra money paid by the consumer to bring their Wiimotes up to scratch, and fragments the userbase.
The goal, I feel, is not necessary, especially in the middle of a hardware iteration, when if realism is what you desire you can just do the actual activity.
DVG on
Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
0
DVGNo. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered Userregular
Did you watch the Tiger Woods video? They were swinging pretty lazily and hitting the ball hundreds of feet.
From what I can see it translates the angles and subtleties pretty well without requiring an actual Tiger Woods level of precision and swing power. It really is a fantasy. In fact that's exactly what you were talking about, it's not "DVG somehow got ahold of a golf club but doesn't belong at PGA," it's "you are Tiger Woods and can hit the ball really far without much effort."
Though to be honest I would be pretty interested in a mode where it does translate your motions into real world physics for no other reason than the novelty.
If that's the case, then I apologize because I've apparently missed the entire point, though now I don't know why they're releasing it
The goal, I feel, is not necessary, especially in the middle of a hardware iteration, when if realism is what you desire you can just do the actual activity.
What if your desire is realism sans the driving, the walking, the maintenance and repairs, and the usage charges? And most importantly, sans the consequences for bad behavior? Isn't that always what people actually mean when they say they want realism from a game?
We want to go on epic adventures without having to eat and poop. Some games have managed to be popular even though they include such mundane activities, such as the Sims. But look at the Sims again: even as detailed and "realistic" as it is, it's realism without the consequences and the massive time investment of doing those things in real life.
Similarly, I would play a perfectly accurate golfing simulation if for no other reason than to avoid walking all over the greens and the sun making me uncomfortable. If you enjoy those things, good for you, and I suggest you actually go golfing; but for many people a game that did that would be worthwhile.
If that's the case, then I apologize because I've apparently missed the entire point, though now I don't know why they're releasing it
Well clearly it's a Tiger Woods game like any other, where you get to emulate your favorite golfing hero and perform outrageously well, unlike you would in real life. It's still more fun if it feels more real, though.
I think the concept of realism is a bit overblown with MotionPlus; what I'm more interested in (and I think most other people are interested in) is the possibility of a far greater degree of precision with gesture-based controls. Things like the proper swing in Tiger Woods or the right way to do the shield bash in Twilight Princess can sometimes be very finicky, and it's immensely hard to tell if it's a) the game not registering the correct move, or b) the player not performing the move correctly. (Take SSX Blur's crazy Uber trick gestures.) I don't think this will ever go away fully, but I think knowing that Option A is almost nil will make games that use MotionPlus wisely infinitely more enjoyable.
I think the concept of realism is a bit overblown with MotionPlus; what I'm more interested in (and I think most other people are interested in) is the possibility of a far greater degree of precision with gesture-based controls. Things like the proper swing in Tiger Woods or the right way to do the shield bash in Twilight Princess can sometimes be very finicky, and it's immensely hard to tell if it's a) the game not registering the correct move, or b) the player not performing the move correctly. (Take SSX Blur's crazy Uber trick gestures.) I don't think this will ever go away fully, but I think knowing that Option A is almost nil will make games that use MotionPlus wisely infinitely more enjoyable.
This is very important. The other big hope is obviously to move beyond gesture = button press and have your precise motions influence the game in a more subtle way than you could have ever done with just a button.
It'll take developers a while to grasp. We had the same developer learning curve with analog sticks... at first a lot of them just mapped joystick directions to the dpad.
It'll take developers a while to grasp. We had the same developer learning curve with analog sticks... at first a lot of them just mapped joystick directions to the dpad.
Fuck, I still can't handle a lot of games' threshold between "tilt slightly to walk" and "tilt slightly more to run."
But at the same time, it has shown everyone what is possible with that stick.
There are third-party Wii games that use the waggle in a very good way, much better than various other games. It means that some devs do get it. I'm confident that there will be devs that will "get it" with MotionPlus, maybe some even had ideas for games that just weren't possible to implement without that degree of precision that MotionPlus provides. Even if there's just a few gems, we'll have that: a few gems.
Have you played tennis before? I'm sure that a Motionplus tennis game is going to be a lot easier to learn and play no matter how realistic it can be.
Yes, I said as much in my post.
But you still think that it'll be just as difficult to play as the real thing?
Of course not.
We have
1. The Wiimote which provides Acceptable Realism
and
2. Doing the actual activity which provides Actual Realism.
The Motion Plus is an effort to provide hardware which bridges the gap between the two, to something we'll call Greater Realism. However, doing so requires extra money paid by the consumer to bring their Wiimotes up to scratch, and fragments the userbase.
The goal, I feel, is not necessary, especially in the middle of a hardware iteration, when if realism is what you desire you can just do the actual activity.
What if I want to play golf but I find it frustrating and annoying after the first hole (I do)? I still want a golf type experience but screw buying a membership, clubs and slacks and treking to the course at seven in the morning to spend the next four hours trying to play in the rain. And what if I want to play a golf game where I have to pot the ball into the exhaust pipe of an alien spaceship? I can't so that in real life. I'd say that the cost for added control sensitivity would be more than worth it if I can do these things in my living room.
Not to mention the whole world of possible games that could be invented using this. I'm more than willing to support that.
I think the concept of realism is a bit overblown with MotionPlus; what I'm more interested in (and I think most other people are interested in) is the possibility of a far greater degree of precision with gesture-based controls. Things like the proper swing in Tiger Woods or the right way to do the shield bash in Twilight Princess can sometimes be very finicky, and it's immensely hard to tell if it's a) the game not registering the correct move, or b) the player not performing the move correctly. (Take SSX Blur's crazy Uber trick gestures.) I don't think this will ever go away fully, but I think knowing that Option A is almost nil will make games that use MotionPlus wisely infinitely more enjoyable.
Aren't blur's controls based on the pointing aspects of the wiimote and not the accelerometers?
I think the concept of realism is a bit overblown with MotionPlus; what I'm more interested in (and I think most other people are interested in) is the possibility of a far greater degree of precision with gesture-based controls. Things like the proper swing in Tiger Woods or the right way to do the shield bash in Twilight Princess can sometimes be very finicky, and it's immensely hard to tell if it's a) the game not registering the correct move, or b) the player not performing the move correctly. (Take SSX Blur's crazy Uber trick gestures.) I don't think this will ever go away fully, but I think knowing that Option A is almost nil will make games that use MotionPlus wisely infinitely more enjoyable.
Aren't blur's controls based on the pointing aspects of the wiimote and not the accelerometers?
If they are, they don't show a pointer onscreen.
I'm almost sure they aren't. The problem is that they only used one accelerometer dimension. You can't treat it as if you were pointing at something onscreen and just twirl your wrist in the right directions, you actually have to move your whole arm while keeping the remote pointing in one direction.
Blur's Ubertricks involved both the Nunchuk and Wiimote, which means they had to use the accelerometers, if I'm understanding the Wiimote's black magic correctly. I actually got really good at doing the tricks, but it was more of muscle memory more than anything. The lack of tactile feedback and being told "You made the circle too big, try smaller and releasing the buttons earlier" was what turned a lot of people off to the game. The controls were really good, once you gave them a shot.
Posts
don't troll
Don't be thickheaded.
According to this thread, it didn't exist back when the Wiimote was out.
I'm not
edit: according to Wikipedia, Miyamoto said they couldn't buy the invensense device in sufficient quantities and at their target price to put it in the original Wiimote.
Quote from first page:
It is worth noticing that Nintendo didn't bought exclusive rights for InvenSense's technology, so we can except other consoles take advantage of this eventually. I guess that price asked was simply too high.
Yes I know this. But the thing is some games have had patches that allow newer addons. (Like RB1 which eventually got the patch and GH3) And I'm not saying that Nintendo would release "Mario Tennis Now with Motion Plus!" But I could see them releasing "Mario Tennis 2 with a couple of more characters and courts and Motion Plus!" instead of just releasing a patch.
Uno on xbox was patched later to use Live Avatars, Lots of playstation games were patched later to provide trophies and some youtube upload and custom soundtracks. Its not unheard of to patch games later for things that weren't originally supported.
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
You only see shit like that on the PC, and even then only by modders.
It isn't going to happen.
Lest we forget: Lair (lolz) got patched to add analog stick control months and months after release. There's a precedent, however dubious it may be.
Crying over spilt milk on Wiimote tech is a little silly, but I do genuinely wonder how widespread MotionPlus tech will become. Like, gamers are excited about MP because it'll make the Wiimote into essentially what the marketing material for the Wii launch promised us it would be ... but I'd wager most mainstream Wii users are already pretty content with the Wii's motion capabilities. How do you sell "true motion control" to people who already have their version of true motion control? Especially if, say, Wii Sports Resort comes with one MP pack but Nintendo wants you to buy three more packs for other games.
It'll come with a couple of big games (Pak came with DK64 in US and Majora in Japan), then a couple of big titles will support it. Stragglers can buy it for cheap at the store.
They just have to have a good pack in and they'll be set (and if it comes standard with newer wiimotes and wiis, it will get marketshare by default)
Not really the same thing. The Sixaxis has analog sticks, the Wiimote does not have motion plus.
I guess thats true if its a completely new control type. I had previously thought it was just improved/refinement on the technology already in the wiimotes. But after reading the last few posts it seems that it now includes a gyroscope which it didn't have before. (?)
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
That and it's a permanent upgrade like the Expansion Pak, not an addon like the balance board. I mean, they have a new jacket for Wiimotes with Motionplus on them, which indicates that you're supposed to put it on and leave it on.
The only problem with it so far is that it might make it awkward to use the wiimote like an NES controller.
Also this isn't new in the games industry, Microsoft managed to change their controller halfway through their generation.
Yup. In the past, contrary to common belief, Wiimote only relied on accelerometers to handle motions. Now, so far as a software is concerned, MotionPlus turns wiimote into item with real physical dimensions, weight, start and end.
Have you played tennis before? I'm sure that a Motionplus tennis game is going to be a lot easier to learn and play no matter how realistic it can be.
Not really the same thing. The Controller S was the same controller with a more comfortable form factor and better button layout. It did not fragment the user base in any way, require games be developed with it in mind specifically (or ignored) or add any functionality whatsoever to the controller.
Yes, I said as much in my post.
But you still think that it'll be just as difficult to play as the real thing?
INSTAGRAM
Did you watch the Tiger Woods video? They were swinging pretty lazily and hitting the ball hundreds of feet.
From what I can see it translates the angles and subtleties pretty well without requiring an actual Tiger Woods level of precision and swing power. It really is a fantasy. In fact that's exactly what you were talking about, it's not "DVG somehow got ahold of a golf club but doesn't belong at PGA," it's "you are Tiger Woods and can hit the ball really far without much effort."
Though to be honest I would be pretty interested in a mode where it does translate your motions into real world physics for no other reason than the novelty.
Of course not.
We have
1. The Wiimote which provides Acceptable Realism
and
2. Doing the actual activity which provides Actual Realism.
The Motion Plus is an effort to provide hardware which bridges the gap between the two, to something we'll call Greater Realism. However, doing so requires extra money paid by the consumer to bring their Wiimotes up to scratch, and fragments the userbase.
The goal, I feel, is not necessary, especially in the middle of a hardware iteration, when if realism is what you desire you can just do the actual activity.
If that's the case, then I apologize because I've apparently missed the entire point, though now I don't know why they're releasing it
We want to go on epic adventures without having to eat and poop. Some games have managed to be popular even though they include such mundane activities, such as the Sims. But look at the Sims again: even as detailed and "realistic" as it is, it's realism without the consequences and the massive time investment of doing those things in real life.
Similarly, I would play a perfectly accurate golfing simulation if for no other reason than to avoid walking all over the greens and the sun making me uncomfortable. If you enjoy those things, good for you, and I suggest you actually go golfing; but for many people a game that did that would be worthwhile.
Well clearly it's a Tiger Woods game like any other, where you get to emulate your favorite golfing hero and perform outrageously well, unlike you would in real life. It's still more fun if it feels more real, though.
This is very important. The other big hope is obviously to move beyond gesture = button press and have your precise motions influence the game in a more subtle way than you could have ever done with just a button.
Fuck, I still can't handle a lot of games' threshold between "tilt slightly to walk" and "tilt slightly more to run."
also trivia: Halo 1 let you use the dpad as the left stick.
But at the same time, it has shown everyone what is possible with that stick.
There are third-party Wii games that use the waggle in a very good way, much better than various other games. It means that some devs do get it. I'm confident that there will be devs that will "get it" with MotionPlus, maybe some even had ideas for games that just weren't possible to implement without that degree of precision that MotionPlus provides. Even if there's just a few gems, we'll have that: a few gems.
What if I want to play golf but I find it frustrating and annoying after the first hole (I do)? I still want a golf type experience but screw buying a membership, clubs and slacks and treking to the course at seven in the morning to spend the next four hours trying to play in the rain. And what if I want to play a golf game where I have to pot the ball into the exhaust pipe of an alien spaceship? I can't so that in real life. I'd say that the cost for added control sensitivity would be more than worth it if I can do these things in my living room.
Not to mention the whole world of possible games that could be invented using this. I'm more than willing to support that.
Dude... where the hell do you play golf?
Aren't blur's controls based on the pointing aspects of the wiimote and not the accelerometers?
If they are, they don't show a pointer onscreen.
I'm almost sure they aren't. The problem is that they only used one accelerometer dimension. You can't treat it as if you were pointing at something onscreen and just twirl your wrist in the right directions, you actually have to move your whole arm while keeping the remote pointing in one direction.
Nebraska?
The cheapest non-sale golf I found last year was 40$ for 9 holes and 2 people.
Jesus. The last time I went golfing, which granted, was ten years ago in high school, it was like $5 per person for 9 holes.
That is extremely cheap for golf.