[Darkfall] Now with More Wang!!

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  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Have they stated whether they'll have a way to combat macroing, or no?

    What is this I don't even.
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    I've found various answers on the macro stuff.

    The only official one I've found so far is this: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=326791

    A lot of other answers all mention how the class/role specialization stuff will make macroing a nonissue.... or far less of an issue.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Hmm. That doesn't really convince me that they agree with the idea that macroing was bad in the previous game, or that they've fixed what bothers most people.

    What is this I don't even.
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Ya, it feels like they are avoiding the question.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Aventurine has been a bit hit and miss in general when it comes to answering some of the details and questions people have had; I think that's why their beta for this is going to be helpful in bringing out those details. I have managed to dig up some good interviews and stuff for your purview, however, that can help shed some light on changes to the game. Enjoy.

    Darkfall Unholy Wars Interview with Aventurine by MMORPG.com

    Stuff about Safe Zones

    And a list of Community Q&A Stuff

    Quoting that last link, one of the Q&As had some macro clarification:
    Will Darkfall Unholy Wars be as IT involved as Darkfall 1? Meaning that the IT guys who knows best about macro's / scripts can win this game? Same with auto loot scripts and such, or will there be this time a friendly customer GUI for all?

    We have created a level playing field for all players, regardless of their tech knowledge. Skills no longer benefit from macro-ing or scripting in the way they did in Darkfall 1.0 and the new GUI (which is AWESOME!) is much more fluid and less complicated. You will find that playing Darkfall Unholy Wars is much more like a fantasy combat game and much less like a flight sim.
    Take that as you will; I generally see that as an improvement over fireballs into the sky spam to improve skills and the like.

    Only downside of the beta is that everyone will now know what keeps and shit are most important to hold and all the big organized groups that played the original Darkfall or other gaming communities jumping in will find those places in beta, meticulously set up a plan of action for capping one or the other, and feed misinformation to others about their plans. They'll then hit that shit first thing at launch, depriving individuals and small groups, whether old or new, of a chance to get the good stuff through skill, chance and serendipity. Long term will still be a different story, but in the short term the good fights will only come from big groups ramming heads within the first hours over the prime territory.

    I plan on waiting and seeing where the dust settles and what people's impressions are of the game after that rush before I consider hopping in. And of course seeing how many people here are willing to set up a group for taking a piece of the pie.

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  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    interesting... I may give this a try, darkfall was a huge disappointment to me before, but it is the type of game i love.

    uNMAGLm.png Mon-Fri 8:30 PM CST - 11:30 PM CST
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    The company running it... just so confusing.

    They are currently looking for a bug before they release the beta client today.

    They said they can't find the bug, and can't replicate it... so instead of having thousands of beta testers possibly find it they are waiting.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    The company running it... just so confusing.

    They are currently looking for a bug before they release the beta client today.

    They said they can't find the bug, and can't replicate it... so instead of having thousands of beta testers possibly find it they are waiting.

    They are a weird bunch of Greeks, aren't they?

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  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Badwrong wrote: »
    The company running it... just so confusing.

    They are currently looking for a bug before they release the beta client today.

    They said they can't find the bug, and can't replicate it... so instead of having thousands of beta testers possibly find it they are waiting.

    They are a weird bunch of Greeks, aren't they?

    That's where they are from currently I guess.

    I also read that they come from various backgrounds, including microsoft and other high end companies. Some of them worked on Asheron's Call as well.

    But apparently any professionalism they might have had previously no longer exists.

    Just stuff I have read a few times while browsing their forums and googling about the game.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    As I recall they delayed the original Darkfall's release for some months due to similar concerns, even with a beta.

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  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    Yeah, given the track record, I'm highly interested...but hesitant. I'm not about to throw my hat into the ring on something that's actually related to Darkfall. Not at least until they prove that was a mistake.

  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    The company running it... just so confusing.

    They are currently looking for a bug before they release the beta client today.

    They said they can't find the bug, and can't replicate it... so instead of having thousands of beta testers possibly find it they are waiting.

    Well, hey, maybe the bug is "deletes C drive". That's a bit of bug hunting they shouldn't try to crowdsource.

  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    Garthor wrote: »
    Well, hey, maybe the bug is "deletes C drive". That's a bit of bug hunting they shouldn't try to crowdsource.

    Heh. Well they actually specified that its a bug that deleted all the items in someones inventory. Apparently they are trying to duplicate the bug internally but can't, and their entire forums is a mass of people offering to beta test and find the bug for them.

    Plus its a FFA PVP game, and its a beta. Losing some items here and there really is a stupid reason to not launch it after their failed launch of the actual game already.


    edit: looks like the beta is up now though. my launcher is currently doing more than it was before.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    God speed and good luck to them; I hope they can make this thing work this time.

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  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    I feel like asking $30 for beta access to a game that is developed by a questionable developer, and a startling lack of information (not even what races will be available? Or how your mechanics work?) available, is a little crazy.

    As much as I'd like to try it.

    Corehealer
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Yeah, I was excited for a minute, because anything that recaptures some of Eve's hotness is amazing. Then I spent some time reading the forums and remembering who the devs are. The devs are TERRIBLE game designers.

    What is this I don't even.
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Yeah, I was excited for a minute, because anything that recaptures some of Eve's hotness is amazing. Then I spent some time reading the forums and remembering who the devs are. The devs are TERRIBLE game designers.

    No one who attempts this kind of game design is terrible. I prefer to consider them smiling incompetents. We need their vision, but with better deadlines and coding and general ability to deliver. I imagine it's partly money issues too as they needed to add this game to Steam Greenlight and have Valve aid them as well. And they are in Greece so that's a factor.

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  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    So ya... the game has full collision. Which is fine.

    But the starting "spot" for all new characters is the exact same spot.

    So the beta is just a ball of a thousand people in one spot, all stuck and unable to move. No /stuck or /kill command or any method to go anywhere really.

    Its beta. No biggie... I'll check back in a while. The only alarming thing, is that this was "supposed" to launch like 28 days ago.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    CorehealerGlal
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    So ya... the game has full collision. Which is fine.

    But the starting "spot" for all new characters is the exact same spot.

    So the beta is just a ball of a thousand people in one spot, all stuck and unable to move. No /stuck or /kill command or any method to go anywhere really.

    Its beta. No biggie... I'll check back in a while. The only alarming thing, is that this was "supposed" to launch like 28 days ago.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    What is this I don't even.
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    It gets better... if you logout, crash, disconnect, etc... you can't reconnect to your character. In fact it queues you at a low spot in the queue and then proceeds to put you higher and higher in the queue forever.

    Again, its a beta... nothing to crazy really for a beta. A beta they decided to throw together on the day the game was going to fully launch without a beta.

    I'm being negative though. On a positive note, the graphics are drastically improved over the first game. There is hope and I hope to get to actually play this beta sometime soon.

    edit: Oh nice the devs are actually communicating the real issue with the cluster of players at the start point. A bug caused people to remain logged in server side, which was why so many people were blocking the starting spot.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    for those in the beta let me know how it is... I am on the fence right now but I'm leaning away because of the disaster Darkfall was. I'm pretty close to throwing $30 at the game though

    uNMAGLm.png Mon-Fri 8:30 PM CST - 11:30 PM CST
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    I will share what I can, when I can actually get it playing. They are indeed fixing things, their problem is they patch a ton of shit all at once. Instead of just fixing the login/logout issues, they throw out a 70 meg file of various changes all at once. Its also not really a "beta" build right now, its their debug build. So its doing a ton more crap than the normal client should.... so in some cases people have performance issues that are only due to the debug client.

    Its also supposedly cheaper if you played the previous game... which I did, but I never was able to get my old login info and any site to reset the password is nonexistent as far as I can tell.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    I will share what I can, when I can actually get it playing. They are indeed fixing things, their problem is they patch a ton of shit all at once. Instead of just fixing the login/logout issues, they throw out a 70 meg file of various changes all at once. Its also not really a "beta" build right now, its their debug build. So its doing a ton more crap than the normal client should.... so in some cases people have performance issues that are only due to the debug client.

    Its also supposedly cheaper if you played the previous game... which I did, but I never was able to get my old login info and any site to reset the password is nonexistent as far as I can tell.

    This worries me. It seems like a glaring oversight to make password retrieval impossible. Not "shadey" or anything, just dumb.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    After reading about the WarZ debacle, I'm back to being comfortable not kickstarting or buying my way into beta for anything. Whatever happened to paying for games when they released? :P

    What is this I don't even.
    CorehealerSeidkonaLowlander
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Just spent about 3 hours playing.

    Its pretty good so far. They did a muuuuuch better job with the "safe" zone. The tutorial even gave me a mount.

    The UI can use some work, but its a vast improvement over the first.

    I was able to go mass murder zombies at some ruins in the safe area. They all drop most things required to make basic chainmail gear. I mined the iron for it as well and made a full set of chainmail.
    The skill based combat is rather good so far. I killed some rock golem that I think I was supposed to run from in the tutorial, because the kiting to kill it took like 15 mins.

    The game itself has tons of potential. Its just simple crap like the logging in and basic communication from the devs is just horrible.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    For those on the fence about getting the beta, you can get the client downloaded... its not some hidden link you have to have a login for or anything.

    http://www.eu1.darkfallonline.com/dl/DFUW.exe

    Also a torrent for it that is quicker: http://www.eu1.darkfallonline.com/dl/DFUW.torrent




    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    .......tempting..... I am currently playing 4 mmos though, but my guess is my interest will wain in at least 2 of them soon.

    uNMAGLm.png Mon-Fri 8:30 PM CST - 11:30 PM CST
  • SloSlo Registered User regular
    So, I got burned by DF. How is this going?

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Slo wrote: »
    So, I got burned by DF. How is this going?

    Better but still quite half baked by many early beta accounts. I've been too busy to utilize Badwrong's beta access to see for myself but after initial launch hiccups he seems to think it's going better on the front end vis a vie UI, combat, graphics, etc.

    I'd suggest giving it some time.

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  • ChaokelChaokel Registered User
    Slo wrote: »
    So, I got burned by DF. How is this going?

    Its much more promising than darkfall 1 ever was. Also, AV seem to have actually realised that they need to keep their customers updated, getting regular updates about issues from them is incredible.

    If you are on the fence i'd definitely wait and get it at launch.

  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    So far the macro issues from Darkfall are not in 2.0

    Yes, there are indeed people who are doing them and they are capping various skills quicker than normal. But they aren't reducing months of grind into a few days of macroing. Playing normally and using your skills through normal play levels them at a reasonable speed. There are far less skills in this, and the new UI removes the need for scripting as well. So far the skill gain feels like an elder scrolls game. Your normal play will be reflected in what skills you level up. If someone macros to max out all skills, they don't gain some huge benefit since this game has classes/roles that limit what skills you use.

    And ya, AV is giving frequent updates on the beta forum. Not really updating their main website, which I find silly... but they are operating differently than before and going out of their way to show it.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • KungFuKungFu Registered User regular
    I know there is an NDA, but can anyone say whether or not there is a PA presence in the Unholy Wars closed beta? I know the game is still undergoing many changes but I get the urge to pre-purchase and play but only if there are cool dudes to group up with.

    Theft 4 Bread
  • HotcookieHotcookie Registered User regular
    I can't find a thread for DF UW :( it's released now, surprised theres not one.....

    Or do no PAers play it?

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    My guess is no because it's a mostly unknown IP in the genre, didn't receive much in the way of advertizing, it's predecessor was buggy and incomplete, it requires a $32 buy in and a $15 sub fee, and the combat and mechanics alone make it more niche.

    I for one hope it succeeds to be solvent and stable this time, but it's not for me and really hard to justify in a world of F2P titles. Wildstar already has a huge debate surrounding it's possible sub based financial model, and that game is looking to be much more popular and forward moving in terms of mechanics.

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  • HotcookieHotcookie Registered User regular
    You are absolutely right in what you are saying, it is niche although if you consider how many subscribers uo had in it's hayday, if all of those people were aware of this a good portion of it would give it a go as its the closest thing to the buzz of felluca.

    It's also on steam and has gained quite a lot of hype due to the fact its the first p2p title on steam that can be billed through steam. I think its probably more popular than people realise.

    being a massive fan of the UO sandbox example for so many years I wish I'd known about the original darkfall despite being buggy. Anyway I digress I guess this thread seeing a little activity might make a few people notice :).

    I do whole heartedly agree its very pricey for an indie game especially when Neverwinter realeses for free this week, but its something very different to anything else on the market right now save for maybe mortal, but from what I gather this is far more polished than that.

    I think its also worth mentioning that this game is nowhere near as buggy or troubled as it was in beta. Its good enough to command an enterance fee and as that includes a free month I thin k its a good deal. They really need to get a trial out there, at least a buddy pass for existing members. You have to try it to love it!

  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    I played the original for a couple of months and enjoyed it, but it's really not a game I have enough time to play these days. I felt like I had to play it for hours every day, just to have enough of a sense of progression toward Not Being Shit to keep me going.

  • Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Registered User regular
    Generally, the best way to draw attention to a game is to post impressions and screenshots so others can get a feel for what's going on. I've personally never played Darkfall, but followed this thread as well as the one on Something Awful enough to know there is a lot of bad blood among the community who did play it... enough that many of them probably won't go back on principle.

  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    So I finally got around to spending time on this now that its been released for a couple months.

    This is literally the best 180 I've ever seen an MMO make.

    The biggest concern people have is the grinding. In the original DF it was almost impossible to catch up to someone who was macroing skills. EVERYTHING has changed on that concept now. When you use a skill now or do an attack, it no longer levels up. You now choose what to level up with "Prowess" points. These are basically exp you get for doing various things like killing stuff, feats (achievements), crafting, gathering, etc. So if I go kill some goblins for a little bit and earn about 20-30 Prowess, I can then goto my skills menu and spends those points on what I want. This means that there is absolutely NO advantage to going afk with a macro to cast magic bolt for hours.

    The vertical power gap is also not "that" huge now. A person who has played a few months more will still have an advantage, sure... but they wont be able to just swat new players like flies. The person who has spents months more than you playing will most likely be working on other "roles" at that point, getting your first role's skills up doesn't take that long. In the first DF you could level everything and it all took a really really long time. In this one, you have an extremely fast initial power curve. For example, in my first few hours playing I went with elementalist role and got all my basic skills upto 30, my INT stat raised by 4, a few crafts up about 5 points (at 25 points you are on the second tier). I gained around 600 prowess total so far, they say you can do decent outside the safe zones at about 2500 prowess. I still went outside the safe zone with my friend and we did totally fine.

    We did get attacked by someone we probably couldn't kill, because he had gear, skills and player skill over us. I didnt bring spell reagent and he downed me pretty fast, my friend who was skirmisher managed to escape in a long chase. I was about halfway recovered where he killed me, but he returned to my body. To my surprise he rezzed me and said "good fight". For those who don't know, when you are downed in this game, you slowly recover... which takes about 2-3 minutes. In that time people can come and either rez you or gank you. The kill is literally called gank too... homage to the EQ1 player named Gank (not the term people blindly use for any PVP actions nowdays). Having this option is really cool. You can go around PVPing all you want, and still be a good sport by not fully killing someone and causing them to lose their items. If you do actually gank you start getting a red name and eventually cant go in safe towns I believe.

    Another very strong point in the game is NO FLOATY NAMES. To see someones name you have to be somewhat close to them (20 yards or so) and aim directly at them. What this means is you can actually hide. When my friend and I left the safe zone we found it very useful to be able to duck behind trees or rocks when seeing danger.

    As far as bugs go and graphics, this game has improved a HUGE amount. There might still be some bugs, but I did not encounter a single one. The graphics are also really nice now. I wouldn't judge the game on the youtube videos you see out there, most of them are probably twitchy gamers with all settings on low in order to get 5 more FPS. I was able to play with it all maxed out while getting 50-60 frames and it really looks good. The animations have improved a great deal as well, they still are a little stiff, but at this point thats part of keeping it balanced. All attacks and hitboxes are standard across the board now. It kinda makes it weird to have the dwarf race look almost identical to humans, but its a tolerated sacrifice for keeping gameplay fair.

    I know I ramble and am not the best writer, but I am stupidly impressed by how this game has changed. The only major negative I've found so far are the default keybinds, they are a bit clumsy. The first 30 mins of playing I was redoing them all. The good part however is the number of skills you will use at any given time is rather small. Four general skills for self heals and the 3 transfer skills are something everyone will use at all times. And then each role gets about 6 skills (my elementalist role did at least) that you will want to hotkey. The default setup is this dual radial wheel thing that is just clumsy to use. But I put all my basic skills on 1-8 with the number keys. And my role skills on QERF and 2 extra mouse buttons. It makes the controls feel WAY better than the defaults.

    I'm really kicking myself right now though. I'm always looking for a non shit sandbox game and I wrote off DF a while ago when the original was just grind as shit and the beta for DF:UO still had the grindy system. But that system is totally gone. They stripped all the right stuff completely out of the game, but kept all the key elements that still make you feel like you are a vulernable adventurer in the game world.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    So you're saying it's worth a download? How harsh is the playerbase?

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Still put off by the idea of paying a sub for this over paying a sub for a game like Wildstar, simply because as much as I enjoy the thought of stuff like hiding in the environment and meaningful character progression of this kind, it's still an unknown quantity to a degree coupled with the bad taste Darkfall's macro spam left in my mouth and the fact that the game is still janky in places. It's a tough call.

    I do wish the new game all the best and am glad to hear it's managing to evolve in a positive way without losing it's hardcore roots.

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