the octo-cam being unrealistic is the least of my disbelief worries when raiden does some ridiculous acrobatics that are almost the opposite of possible.
it's a videogame though. disbelief is perfectly fine with me. this game looks amazing.
Im saying that the animations didn't look bad then, and they don't look bad now. They are unique, not intended to be realistic, much like the style of wind waker wasnt supposed to be the same style that was used in TP.
They didn't look bad then because it was 2001. They look bad now because it's six years later and standards for quality animations have risen since then. They are stiff and robotic and fake looking. Lifting them out of MGS2 is incredibly lazy, especially when you have these new animations made for MGS4 in there that look far more natural and fluid (if still awkward at times). You're just making excuses.
And an almost generic techno-organic art style is more compelling and less generic than anything else? Yeah, okay, whatever.
And then I remember you were the guy that argued for pages that the writing in MGS was God's gift to game writing, so nevermind, you're not worth the bother, but I've already typed this up.
And then I remember you were the guy that argued for pages that the writing in MGS was God's gift to game writing, so nevermind, you're not worth the bother, but I've already typed this up.
Yeah, you were always really polite and humble. Those were some pretty fun discussions.
And my point is, those animations are iconic AND they don't look bad.
As for the art style dismissal, the metal gear series has always brought a lot into their games, which I think keeps things interesting. instead of gears of war's intense consistency, a dedication to be consistently bland, we get a realistic military scene littered with all these weird biotechnologies and such.
A pretty basic example would be the solid eye. Instead of the generic "heat filter," or "night vision," or whatever Sam Fisher's up to these days, we get a really abstract, clean filter that simply differentiates biomass from nonliving entities. Its aesthetically pleasing, and pretty helpful. It reminds me more of something you would see in metroid prime than the latest lifeless FPS.
As far as the AI and not noticing the camouflage and other details regarding them, I'm sure it was dumbed down a bit and made to off some of the specifics of the game/gameplay. I think we'll see it be a bit harder when we're playing a demo or the full game. The effect might not even be finished. And the animations lifted from Metal Gear Solid 2, perhaps they're place holders. In any case, for both AI and the animations, there is still quite a bit of time left before it's out. There is plenty of time to improve on things, and I'm sure we'll see some by the time it's out.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
And my point is, those animations are iconic AND they don't look bad.
And my point is, no matter what you think, they look stiff and robotic and bad. They looked great for an early PS2 game. They looked barely acceptable for a late PS2 game. They are definitely not acceptable for a next-gen game of this caliber.
They really aren't iconic. Most people couldn't give a shit if they're animations from the previous games. It will stick out that they look so stiff. It's lazy and it will hurt the visual presentation of the game for some people. Though obviously not those so incredibly enamored with the series as yourself.
As for the art style dismissal, the metal gear series has always brought a lot into their games, which I think keeps things interesting. instead of gears of war's intense consistency, a dedication to be consistently bland, we get a realistic military scene littered with all these weird biotechnologies and such.
Part of the point of Gears of War's art style is that it is bland. Colors are subdued and the environments are rather lifeless. That's kind of the idea. They were trying to get across the maudlin depressed feeling of a once great civilization destroyed visually rather than pounding you over the head with it with ham-fisted dialogue.
At any rate, MGS's art style isn't exactly bad and I would never say it is, but it isn't exactly the most original thing in the world either. Its brand of techno-organic looks isn't exactly exclusive to the series. To say it's less generic than so many other things is just silly.
A pretty basic example would be the solid eye. Instead of the generic "heat filter," or "night vision," or whatever Sam Fisher's up to these days, we get a really abstract, clean filter that simply differentiates biomass from nonliving entities. Its aesthetically pleasing, and pretty helpful. It reminds me more of something you would see in metroid prime than the latest lifeless FPS.
Differentiating biomass from nonliving entities is exactly what "generic" thermal vision does and nightvision is pretty much a staple of modern being able to see in the dark, so I'm not really getting your point, especially since those things you're citing are grounded in reality, while MGS is smack dab firmly in the realm of sci-fi.
And oh shit! OH SHIT! Every previous MGS game has had thermal vision and MGS3 even had nightvision! MGS is totally generic guys, I'm sorry.
i still have to say that i havent seen anything indicative that this game wouldnt be 100% portable to the 360.
I've heard things, namely about a large sum of money changing hands right around E3. Yep, I'm pretty sure Konami extorted Sony out of some mad MGS4 exclusivity cash. The only question now is how long the duration is/when will MGS4:S word come out.
Differentiating biomass from nonliving entities is exactly what "generic" thermal vision does and nightvision is pretty much a staple of modern being able to see in the dark, so I'm not really getting your point, especially since those things you're citing are grounded in reality, while MGS is smack dab firmly in the realm of sci-fi...
I was just saying that the solid eye does it in an aesthetically pleasing , spare manner, instead of the typical spread-spectrum thermal vision that gives you alot of data which really isnt pertinent to you in the game world.
And as for Gears of War, I admit that the environments, artistically, were well done. I was thinking more about the character models and level design (which was horribly repetitive).
I really have no idea what these "stiff animations" you guys are talking about.
I know what people are bitching about, but it's not really a relevant issue given that MGS has always been known for animated character movement rather than motion captured movement. It's all part of the style, and, along with insanely deep pockets for rocket launchers and cardboard boxes, I think it's part of the overall MGS style and should always remain so.
RandomVince on
ULTIMATUM, n. In diplomacy, a last demand before resorting to concessions.
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited July 2007
Just wanted to say that some soldiers running around because you triggered a script and people shooting at eachother from a distance of 5m without anyone ever dieing and some "planes" flying above your head dropping bombs (also scripted) is NOT a "real-time battlefield". It's the normal things that 99% of every miliary/warzone shooter have.
When I play a game set in a warzone, especialy an urban one, I would be shocked if I didn't see a scene in which some soldiers run from left to right (or vice versa) in front of me and an explosion follows. Also, if a game doesn't have a plane fly above you and either crash or drop bombs, it's not worth your money.
Everything about the game looked good (I don't like desert environments though, cause they always look really bland. Guess that's the desert for you) apart from the fire,which looked pretty poor.
The rest, like dumb A.I. and other stuff should hopefully be because this was a demo version.
edit: I'd like to see something other than the same environment we've been shown since day one before I pass final judgment. I'd hate to think you spend the entire game running around a desert.
edit: I'd like to see something other than the same environment we've been shown since day one before I pass final judgment. I'd hate to think you spend the entire game running around a desert.
We've known that there's more locations since last year. And sorry but showing all the locations before the game actually comes out would be fucking stupid.
Part of the point of Gears of War's art style is that it is bland. Colors are subdued and the environments are rather lifeless. That's kind of the idea. They were trying to get across the maudlin depressed feeling of a once great civilization destroyed visually rather than pounding you over the head with it with ham-fisted dialogue.
That whole octocammo thing is ridiculous, IMO. It's like a kid covering himself with a bedsheet and snickering.
I know these games are not realistic at all, but that's retarded.
You've seen the boxes Snake's hidden in since MGS, right?
With the ridiculous shuffling around animation?
That kind of silly humour has always been part of the series.
To everyone else:
Frankly, the octocamo seems like something that's supposed to be used in short spurts. Quickly hiding behind a blown-out window and taking the colour/texture of a bullet-riddled wall for a few seconds... While a squad of soldiers walk by a few metres away... Or perhaps using it to give a search party the fade while you slink into the shadows.
Admittedly when used in the demo -- to actively stalk someone for minutes on end --then, yes, it looks sketchy. But I think that was just Kojima showing the extreme possibilities of the feature.
You could do that. Just like you could travel most of MGS2's plant chapter using Raiden's cartwheel move.
C'mon... The series has vampires, robo ninjas, clones, and possessed arms.
Octocamo is the least silly aspect of MGS4.
I think there's a bit more leeway for "Grrrrrr TESTOSTERONE KIIIIILLLL" in a war game. As silly as the dialogue is in Gears, it's there for fluff more than story. The MGS stuff can get... well... Kojima makes great games, not good stories. Actually, that's part of why I liked 3 the best. The silly dialogue is kind of lost in the general atmosphere of being in a jungle, in a Bond movie.
I can't remember how many times real live players ran right by me when I was playing as Snake in MGO. Equip the right camo, put yourself in a corner, and if someone isn't explicitly looking in THAT corner, they very likely won't see you.
Wait, some people were actually disappointed by the gameplay footage? Talk about hard to please.
My favourite part was the Militia soldier giving Snake the little thumbs-up at the end. I love the idea of this heavy war going on, and Snake is just this mysterious old dude who shows up and kicks ass. And just like that fffft, he's gone. [/Verbal Kint]
Really hope it doesn't suprise you that people are complaining, every video released for any video game ever has the same old grumpy people complaining. As for the level thing, i'm not so naive to believe that you'd spend the whole game in the desert, just my way of saying - I'd like to see more. Not every single level in the game, that's idiotic - just interested to see what graphical effects they can pull off in other settings.
The entirety of MGS1 was on Shadow Moses Island. All of MGS3 was in Russia. But they were able to create unique locations within the same area. I'm not saying MGS4 won't have multiple locations, but I won't be surprised if doesn't.
The entirety of MGS1 was on Shadow Moses Island. All of MGS3 was in Russia. But they were able to create unique locations within the same area. I'm not saying MGS4 won't have multiple locations, but I won't be surprised if doesn't.
Same here. I actually love the 'desert' atmosphere, as it adds to the seclusion, and lonely attitude that the characters are apparently feeling. Snake feels alone in his mission, he's his own soldier of fortune in this war, while other people are out on their own agendas.
But my theory still stands: Afrika is a viral marketing campaign for MGS4. :P
To me, it's everything I wanted out of a next-gen MGS. Perfect the subsistence style of gameplay, throw it in a MGS2 style setting, and add some Rainbow Six gunplay for good measure. Sounds like a good time for a MGS fan to me.
I think the octocammo wouldnt work so well if the guards were actively looking for you. At that point, they're just patrolling, seeing ifanything is around.
I mean, how many times do you walk down the street, and check your hard right to see if someone is laying there?
The entirety of MGS1 was on Shadow Moses Island. All of MGS3 was in Russia. But they were able to create unique locations within the same area. I'm not saying MGS4 won't have multiple locations, but I won't be surprised if doesn't.
Same here. I actually love the 'desert' atmosphere, as it adds to the seclusion, and lonely attitude that the characters are apparently feeling. Snake feels alone in his mission, he's his own soldier of fortune in this war, while other people are out on their own agendas.
But my theory still stands: Afrika is a viral marketing campaign for MGS4. :P
Didn't they explicitly state that there was at least three separate locals already? Pretty sure they did.
The entirety of MGS1 was on Shadow Moses Island. All of MGS3 was in Russia. But they were able to create unique locations within the same area. I'm not saying MGS4 won't have multiple locations, but I won't be surprised if doesn't.
Same here. I actually love the 'desert' atmosphere, as it adds to the seclusion, and lonely attitude that the characters are apparently feeling. Snake feels alone in his mission, he's his own soldier of fortune in this war, while other people are out on their own agendas.
But my theory still stands: Afrika is a viral marketing campaign for MGS4. :P
Didn't they explicitly state that there was at least three separate locals already? Pretty sure they did.
Yeah, and they really stressed the 'at least', which means there's a high probability there are more.
The entirety of MGS1 was on Shadow Moses Island. All of MGS3 was in Russia. But they were able to create unique locations within the same area. I'm not saying MGS4 won't have multiple locations, but I won't be surprised if doesn't.
Same here. I actually love the 'desert' atmosphere, as it adds to the seclusion, and lonely attitude that the characters are apparently feeling. Snake feels alone in his mission, he's his own soldier of fortune in this war, while other people are out on their own agendas.
But my theory still stands: Afrika is a viral marketing campaign for MGS4. :P
How is Snake in any way whatsoever a Soldier of Fortune?
The entirety of MGS1 was on Shadow Moses Island. All of MGS3 was in Russia. But they were able to create unique locations within the same area. I'm not saying MGS4 won't have multiple locations, but I won't be surprised if doesn't.
Same here. I actually love the 'desert' atmosphere, as it adds to the seclusion, and lonely attitude that the characters are apparently feeling. Snake feels alone in his mission, he's his own soldier of fortune in this war, while other people are out on their own agendas.
But my theory still stands: Afrika is a viral marketing campaign for MGS4. :P
How is Snake in any way whatsoever a Soldier of Fortune?
Well, he's out for himself on this round. Sure, he took an order from his previous Colonel, but he's not affiliated with the multiple main sides of the conflict, yet he still wants personal gain from the situation.
Am I the only one here who has a monster hard-on when seeing that, despite already owning most of the things included?
Can I hear a please Konami release this in America?
The best part is, it's only like 70 bucks, which is a ridiculously good price. My only complaint is that they didn't include TTS. I know it would be the only non-PS2 game in there, but come on. Last I heard Kojima was actually advocating getting this released in the US because the Metal Gear games sell better here than in Japan.
Am I the only one here who has a monster hard-on when seeing that, despite already owning most of the things included?
Can I hear a please Konami release this in America?
The best part is, it's only like 70 bucks, which is a ridiculously good price. My only complaint is that they didn't include TTS. I know it would be the only non-PS2 game in there, but come on. Last I heard Kojima was actually advocating getting this released in the US because the Metal Gear games sell better here than in Japan.
Yeah... disappointment also lies in the fact that it's Sons of Liberty and Snake Eater in there, instead of Substance and Subsistence. But I'd still get it just for the Document and the shiny box, I'll always have Subsistence which I can still play anyway. Substance on PS2 though, that fucker's impossible to find. Damn you Konami.
Yeah... disappointment also lies in the fact that it's Sons of Liberty and Snake Eater in there, instead of Substance and Subsistence.
Laaaaaame. I hope if they bring it here, that gets changed. No reason not to offer the superior version (with maybe a sticker somewhere saying that Subsistence online multiplayer no longer works.)
I actually read somewhere that the content on the disks is actually Substance and Subsistence, but they kept the labels on the disks as Sons of Liberty and Snake Eater for artistic purposes or something, which in a way makes sence becuase that is what those chapters in the story are called...or that is the way I see it.
Posts
it's a videogame though. disbelief is perfectly fine with me. this game looks amazing.
I love you Pancake.
Yeah, you were always really polite and humble. Those were some pretty fun discussions.
And my point is, those animations are iconic AND they don't look bad.
As for the art style dismissal, the metal gear series has always brought a lot into their games, which I think keeps things interesting. instead of gears of war's intense consistency, a dedication to be consistently bland, we get a realistic military scene littered with all these weird biotechnologies and such.
A pretty basic example would be the solid eye. Instead of the generic "heat filter," or "night vision," or whatever Sam Fisher's up to these days, we get a really abstract, clean filter that simply differentiates biomass from nonliving entities. Its aesthetically pleasing, and pretty helpful. It reminds me more of something you would see in metroid prime than the latest lifeless FPS.
360 Gamertag: Baronskatenbass Steam: BaronVonSnakPak HgL: AnsonLuap
I noticed the semi-ragdoll animations given to soldiers as they died, much like Gears of War, which is an A+ in my book.
There was one specifically bad example of this
And my point is, no matter what you think, they look stiff and robotic and bad. They looked great for an early PS2 game. They looked barely acceptable for a late PS2 game. They are definitely not acceptable for a next-gen game of this caliber.
They really aren't iconic. Most people couldn't give a shit if they're animations from the previous games. It will stick out that they look so stiff. It's lazy and it will hurt the visual presentation of the game for some people. Though obviously not those so incredibly enamored with the series as yourself.
Part of the point of Gears of War's art style is that it is bland. Colors are subdued and the environments are rather lifeless. That's kind of the idea. They were trying to get across the maudlin depressed feeling of a once great civilization destroyed visually rather than pounding you over the head with it with ham-fisted dialogue.
At any rate, MGS's art style isn't exactly bad and I would never say it is, but it isn't exactly the most original thing in the world either. Its brand of techno-organic looks isn't exactly exclusive to the series. To say it's less generic than so many other things is just silly.
Differentiating biomass from nonliving entities is exactly what "generic" thermal vision does and nightvision is pretty much a staple of modern being able to see in the dark, so I'm not really getting your point, especially since those things you're citing are grounded in reality, while MGS is smack dab firmly in the realm of sci-fi.
And oh shit! OH SHIT! Every previous MGS game has had thermal vision and MGS3 even had nightvision! MGS is totally generic guys, I'm sorry.
I'm thinking of the two he shoots when on his back
They grab at where they were shot, then basically jump over the railing
I've heard things, namely about a large sum of money changing hands right around E3. Yep, I'm pretty sure Konami extorted Sony out of some mad MGS4 exclusivity cash. The only question now is how long the duration is/when will MGS4:S word come out.
I was just saying that the solid eye does it in an aesthetically pleasing , spare manner, instead of the typical spread-spectrum thermal vision that gives you alot of data which really isnt pertinent to you in the game world.
And as for Gears of War, I admit that the environments, artistically, were well done. I was thinking more about the character models and level design (which was horribly repetitive).
Neither, some people are just really anal. The animations look fine to me.
BaronVonSnakPak: And how exactly would the sixaxis controls work on the 360 version?
I know what people are bitching about, but it's not really a relevant issue given that MGS has always been known for animated character movement rather than motion captured movement. It's all part of the style, and, along with insanely deep pockets for rocket launchers and cardboard boxes, I think it's part of the overall MGS style and should always remain so.
When I play a game set in a warzone, especialy an urban one, I would be shocked if I didn't see a scene in which some soldiers run from left to right (or vice versa) in front of me and an explosion follows. Also, if a game doesn't have a plane fly above you and either crash or drop bombs, it's not worth your money.
Everything about the game looked good (I don't like desert environments though, cause they always look really bland. Guess that's the desert for you) apart from the fire,which looked pretty poor.
The rest, like dumb A.I. and other stuff should hopefully be because this was a demo version.
edit: I'd like to see something other than the same environment we've been shown since day one before I pass final judgment. I'd hate to think you spend the entire game running around a desert.
We've known that there's more locations since last year. And sorry but showing all the locations before the game actually comes out would be fucking stupid.
I don't think we played the same Gears of War.
Not to mention the completely overlooked, massive opportunities for good storytelling.
'Hey Marcus, why you got a huge experimental lab in your basement with dead carcasses and crazy computer networks'
But that's for another thread entirely.
You've seen the boxes Snake's hidden in since MGS, right?
With the ridiculous shuffling around animation?
That kind of silly humour has always been part of the series.
To everyone else:
Frankly, the octocamo seems like something that's supposed to be used in short spurts. Quickly hiding behind a blown-out window and taking the colour/texture of a bullet-riddled wall for a few seconds... While a squad of soldiers walk by a few metres away... Or perhaps using it to give a search party the fade while you slink into the shadows.
Admittedly when used in the demo -- to actively stalk someone for minutes on end --then, yes, it looks sketchy. But I think that was just Kojima showing the extreme possibilities of the feature.
You could do that. Just like you could travel most of MGS2's plant chapter using Raiden's cartwheel move.
C'mon... The series has vampires, robo ninjas, clones, and possessed arms.
Octocamo is the least silly aspect of MGS4.
It really does work, guys.
My favourite part was the Militia soldier giving Snake the little thumbs-up at the end. I love the idea of this heavy war going on, and Snake is just this mysterious old dude who shows up and kicks ass. And just like that fffft, he's gone. [/Verbal Kint]
Same here. I actually love the 'desert' atmosphere, as it adds to the seclusion, and lonely attitude that the characters are apparently feeling. Snake feels alone in his mission, he's his own soldier of fortune in this war, while other people are out on their own agendas.
But my theory still stands: Afrika is a viral marketing campaign for MGS4. :P
I mean, how many times do you walk down the street, and check your hard right to see if someone is laying there?
Didn't they explicitly state that there was at least three separate locals already? Pretty sure they did.
Yeah, and they really stressed the 'at least', which means there's a high probability there are more.
How is Snake in any way whatsoever a Soldier of Fortune?
Well, he's out for himself on this round. Sure, he took an order from his previous Colonel, but he's not affiliated with the multiple main sides of the conflict, yet he still wants personal gain from the situation.
Am I the only one here who has a monster hard-on when seeing that, despite already owning most of the things included?
Can I hear a please Konami release this in America?
The best part is, it's only like 70 bucks, which is a ridiculously good price. My only complaint is that they didn't include TTS. I know it would be the only non-PS2 game in there, but come on. Last I heard Kojima was actually advocating getting this released in the US because the Metal Gear games sell better here than in Japan.
Yeah... disappointment also lies in the fact that it's Sons of Liberty and Snake Eater in there, instead of Substance and Subsistence. But I'd still get it just for the Document and the shiny box, I'll always have Subsistence which I can still play anyway. Substance on PS2 though, that fucker's impossible to find. Damn you Konami.
Laaaaaame. I hope if they bring it here, that gets changed. No reason not to offer the superior version (with maybe a sticker somewhere saying that Subsistence online multiplayer no longer works.)