Options

Pre-Fight Debate Thread: Bracket 6

13

Posts

  • Options
    NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Can anyone post some recent things of Grundy where he isn't killed/served as a meal? You guys are just saying he's so strong and invulnerable without providing the examples you are using to justify it.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • Options
    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Can anyone post some recent things of Grundy where he isn't killed/served as a meal? You guys are just saying he's so strong and invulnerable without providing the examples you are using to justify it.

    Sadly, most of my Grundy Knowledge is from the JLU cartoon...not canon. But, I did see him in an issue of JSA. He was REALLY crazy, and it took a Cosmic Rod to stop him...which is a pretty powerful device. And for some reason I remember people saying he seemed pretty weak in that issue...

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    A: Even through Blob is one of my two nominations in this thing, I gotta go with Bullseye. Although, damn, does everyone have an adamantium skeleton now? I thought you needed a healing factor just to keep it from killing you.

    I was going to ask that exact same question. Get out of my head Scooter!

    Marathon on
  • Options
    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Cowbomb wrote:
    I think Bullseye only has an adamantium spine which isn't enough to kill you. It was how he got fixed after being paralyzed during Miller's run I think.

    I think his entire skeleton is actually just reinforced with strips of adamantium, not covered like Wolverine's.
    Can anyone post some recent things of Grundy where he isn't killed/served as a meal? You guys are just saying he's so strong and invulnerable without providing the examples you are using to justify it.

    In Superman/Batman he was able to fight Superman, though I can't recall how he fared. He's been going down like a bit of a bitch lately though, getting vaporized by Superboy Prime, getting eaten by Dr. Psycho, choked out by Green Arrow, and so on.

    Munch on
  • Options
    NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    And we're supposed to take the most recent versions for consideration in the tournament.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • Options
    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    And we're supposed to take the most recent versions for consideration in the tournament.

    That's still not very logical, seeing as how Vandal Savage is a villain so dangerous he actually inspires fear in Batman.

    Also, getting vaporized by Superboy Prime isn't very hard to do no matter how strong you are.

    Plus, whenever he comes back he's all different again.

    Spectre-x on
  • Options
    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    So really, it's hard to say.

    I am voting for Grundy because he is awesome and I can't stand Omega Red, who is the pentacle of outdated stupid concepts.

    Furu on
  • Options
    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Okay, on fight number 4 I've worked things out this far:
    Taskmaster should be able to beat Captain America, because he has all of his moves plus lots of others, right? And in JLA/Avengers, Cap beat Prometheus using Batman's fighting style as well as others, while in his first appearance, Prometheus beat Batman using the same skillset. So, the last step in the chain is, can Batman beat Deathstroke? I assume yes, but I don't know much about Deathstroke and actively avoid Batman, so a little help would be nice.

    Adaemus1sf on
  • Options
    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm not sure but I believe that Deathstroke has beaten the crap out of Batman on more than one occasion.

    Spectre-x on
  • Options
    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm not sure but I believe that Deathstroke has beaten the crap out of Batman on more than one occasion.
    Really? I didn't think DC let anyone beat Batman more than once. Okay then, is he a good enough fighter to beat Prometheus, who has straight-up wins against both Batman and Lady Shiva? The Cap/Prometheus fight is the only in-continuity crossover fight appropriate here that I can think of, in terms of comparing levels of fighting ability between universes.

    Adaemus1sf on
  • Options
    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I think Deathstroke beat Batman once in Deathstroke's book, though not in a definitive way, and Batman beat Deathstroke in Infinite Crisis, though I think Robin and Nightwing helped on that. I'd say that in a straight up fight, Batman could take Deathstroke. Deathstroke was also beaten by Deadshot, who may or may not be as skilled as Taskmaster with firearms.

    Munch on
  • Options
    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Well, he did fight Captain America, who is as strong, fast and agile as any human could possibly be. Batman even admits to Cap that "it's conceivable" that Cap could beat him. Which in Batman language is "I know that you would beat the crap out of me, so let's talk".

    Spectre-x on
  • Options
    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Well, he did fight Captain America, who is as strong, fast and agile as any human could possibly be. Batman even admits to Cap that "it's conceivable" that Cap could beat him. Which in Batman language is "I know that you would beat the crap out of me, so let's talk".
    yeah, and then Prometheus shows up later and says "I'm using a recording of Batman's fighting style, you have no chance" before Cap kicks his ass. So I assume Cap's got one up on Batman, I just don't know where Deathstroke falls, since he also has physical enhancements.

    Adaemus1sf on
  • Options
    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Taskmaster would kick so much more ass if this tournament had the last tournament's videos (not that I don't see the value of the change).

    robosagogo on
  • Options
    NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Taskmaster would kick so much more ass if this tournament had the last tournament's videos (not that I don't see the value of the change).
    Well all he has to do is make it through this round and then he can watch the videos of this round's fights.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • Options
    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    So can't Taskmaster copy Bullseye's abilities?

    robosagogo on
  • Options
    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I would give it to Taskmaster easy except for one thing: Slade thinks and reacts superhumanly fast. Sure Taskmaster would be able to beat him on a technical level, but Slade would be able to think many moves ahead of him.

    Also, we are assuming these guys will stand there and spar...they have guns. And while Tasky can catch A bullet...can he catch all of them, shot at him quickly? But Task has the energy thing that gives him other's weapons...man this is a tought fight...especially because I don't want either of them to lose!

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    Yeah and taskmaster can watch videos of people fast-foward and copy the movements.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Options
    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    But it also burns him out. Deathstroke does not have that problem.

    Furu on
  • Options
    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    What I am telling you is that he can fight like a faster Captain America, especially with the energy extension for the shield.

    Or a faster Spider-man.

    Or faster Wolverine.

    He doesn't have to do it for long.

    He plays for keeps man.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Options
    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Yeah, and Slade is playing for milk money...anyone who says this fight is cut and dry is just being silly. Doom set up a great fight.

    See to my knowledge, Task can copy someone's style, but that doesn't give him super reflexes/speed. Otherwise he could just copy quicksilver and beat the shazz out of everyone. But he has problems with the likes of Spidey or Cap, because Spidey is actually faster than a human can be. And Cap is more tactical.

    So, he can best Slade in the technical fighting skills, but I think Slade can both out think him, AND think faster than him. And that will let him compensate for Tasks cool energy thing and his superior fighting ability. There is more to fighting than just knowing the moves to make.

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    Yeah, and Slade is playing for milk money...anyone who says this fight is cut and dry is just being silly. Doom set up a great fight.

    See to my knowledge, Task can copy someone's style, but that doesn't give him super reflexes/speed. Otherwise he could just copy quicksilver and beat the shazz out of everyone. But he has problems with the likes of Spidey or Cap, because Spidey is actually faster than a human can be. And Cap is more tactical.

    So, he can best Slade in the technical fighting skills, but I think Slade can both out think him, AND think faster than him. And that will let him compensate for Tasks cool energy thing and his superior fighting ability. There is more to fighting than just knowing the moves to make.
    Taskmaster can move at double speed but usually limits himself to short bursts because of the strain it puts on the body.

    robosagogo on
  • Options
    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Didn't know that.

    But that doesn't mean he auto Wins...it's not like Slade hasn't faught (and beat) guys that are even faster than double speed.


    Just curious: When did he get that power? Is it inherant, or like a drug or what?

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Claim bad writing all you want, but he's taken out Flash and Impulse on record. Saying that Taskmaster goes really fast sometimes isn't proof against Slade.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • Options
    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Slade didn't beat Flash and Impulse because super-speed is shit against him. He beat Flash and Impulse because, despite their speed, their actions were predictable.* It doesn't matter how fast you can do something if the person you're fighting knows what you're going to do before you do it.

    Ultimately, Deathstroke loses this fight because he's fighting a person he's never encountered before and, beyond that, the person he's fighting uses a style that's so varied that there's no way anything he does can be predicted.

    *I put bombs here, here, and here. Flash will react, go behind me, and run into my sword. Someone like Quicksilver, however, may react differently and therefore break through Slade's defenses.



    And Taskmaster is a human with a unique innate ability, not a mutant, magician, or drug user.

    robosagogo on
  • Options
    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    I would give it to Taskmaster easy except for one thing: Slade thinks and reacts superhumanly fast. Sure Taskmaster would be able to beat him on a technical level, but Slade would be able to think many moves ahead of him.

    Also, we are assuming these guys will stand there and spar...they have guns. And while Tasky can catch A bullet...can he catch all of them, shot at him quickly? But Task has the energy thing that gives him other's weapons...man this is a tought fight...especially because I don't want either of them to lose!

    Taskmaster can use his energy doohickey to copy Captain America's shield, Spider-Man's webslingers, swords and a whole bunch of other stuff.

    He is Captain America, the Swordsman, Hawkeye, Spider-Man and a host of others all rolled up into one. That beats Slade.

    Spectre-x on
  • Options
    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm curious as to which of them will hotwire the Batmobile myself.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • Options
    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm curious as to which of them will hotwire the Batmobile myself.
    Taskmaster's probably better at it, and a better driver.

    robosagogo on
  • Options
    The LuggageThe Luggage Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    But Slade's still more likely to utilize Batman's kooky gadgets.

    Mr. Freeze's chemicals (or even his gun), scarecrow gas, anti-martian rockets...

    The Luggage on
    Interminable
  • Options
    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Your in the batcave not a highway, thus using the batmobile as a weapon has little to no chance of working unless the other guy is already down and out and you just want to be a dick and run him over for kicks.

    I give the fight to Taskmaster, Deathstroke needs to plan ahead and know his enemy where Taskmaster can "learn on the job" so to speak.

    Caveman Paws on
  • Options
    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Did Deathstroke ever fight Batgirl (Cass)? If so, how'd he do? Her ability to read and respond to body language is sort of similar to Taskmaster's, so that might give a better indicator of how Slade will do against Tony.

    Munch on
  • Options
    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Munch wrote:
    Did Deathstroke ever fight Batgirl (Cass)? If so, how'd he do? Her ability to read and respond to body language is sort of similar to Taskmaster's, so that might give a better indicator of how Slade will do against Tony.
    They did fight, and he had the upper hand throughout the whole thing right up until the end. It was all a set up to let Rose fight Cassie, though, so Slade was really only toying with her.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • Options
    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    So can't Taskmaster copy Bullseye's abilities?
    He copies movements, not abilities, so I'd say no.

    deadonthestreet on
  • Options
    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    using the batmobile as a weapon has little to no chance of working unless the other guy is already down and out and you just want to be a dick and run him over for kicks.
    ...and?

    Conditional_Axe on
  • Options
    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    So can't Taskmaster copy Bullseye's abilities?
    He copies movements, not abilities, so I'd say no.
    I didn't mean abilities like Heat Vision.

    He can copy the ability to play the piano. Why not the ability to turn anything into a thrown weapon? It's not as though Bullseye's a mutant.

    robosagogo on
  • Options
    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    So can't Taskmaster copy Bullseye's abilities?
    He copies movements, not abilities, so I'd say no.
    I didn't mean abilities like Heat Vision.

    He can copy the ability to play the piano. Why not the ability to turn anything into a thrown weapon? It's not as though Bullseye's a mutant.

    Bullseye turns anything into a deadly weapon, which always hits the exact spot he wants it to hit. Sure, he could copy Bullseye's ability to throw a card but he couldn't copy the deadly accuracy, I suppose.

    (He might be able to do that, but the Marvel writers would never allow him to)

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Options
    Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Conditional Axe:

    ...and?

    The fight is already over, thus the use of the batmobile has no bearing on who wins. The batcave is not a narrow alleyway where driving a car at someone = victory. It just sounded like people were saying "who ever uses the car wins!"

    Caveman Paws on
  • Options
    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Conditional Axe:

    ...and?

    The fight is already over, thus the use of the batmobile has no bearing on who wins. The batcave is not a narrow alleyway where driving a car at someone = victory. It just sounded like people were saying "who ever uses the car wins!"
    I didn't imply that it was an instant win, or at least, I didn't mean to.

    I just meant that it would be awesome to run someone over with the Batmobile. Especially if it's just to be a dick. And, of course, both our contestants on this card are dicks.

    Conditional_Axe on
  • Options
    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I think I'm pulling for Bullseye to win this whole thing.

    deadonthestreet on
  • Options
    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Slade didn't beat Flash and Impulse because super-speed is shit against him. He beat Flash and Impulse because, despite their speed, their actions were predictable.* It doesn't matter how fast you can do something if the person you're fighting knows what you're going to do before you do it.

    Ultimately, Deathstroke loses this fight because he's fighting a person he's never encountered before and, beyond that, the person he's fighting uses a style that's so varied that there's no way anything he does can be predicted.

    *I put bombs here, here, and here. Flash will react, go behind me, and run into my sword. Someone like Quicksilver, however, may react differently and therefore break through Slade's defenses.



    And Taskmaster is a human with a unique innate ability, not a mutant, magician, or drug user.

    Slade beating either Flash or Impulse is still one of the most retarded things on the planet. Fucking Aquaman has better reflexes than Slade. By a pretty wide margin. And Aquaman, while the most badass sea-king in the universe, isn't even close to being as fast as the FLash or Impulse.

    Both of those instances were written as badly, if not worse, than the Spider-man/Firelord fight, and as such should be shunned from our memories for all eternity. Because they're abominations, unspeakable crimes against the natural order of things. The gut-spawn of Satan, so to speak.

    Spectre-x on
Sign In or Register to comment.