[WoW] Raiding Ulduar to stop the Corruption of Flesh

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    You can do sarth3d on 25 with 20 people.

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  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I think I've already said this a few weeks ago. So I'm spoilering it.
    I remember the last night I went to a raid, I had gone weeks without an upgrade. (other than bracers no one else wanted at all and they would have been sharded otherwise.)

    We were doing 25 Naxx, and some other Retadin came in doing maybe 1300dps on a good fight. (pretty sure he had dropped to 900 on one of them) Turns out the guy had just dinged 80, was only wearing some quest gear, BoE stuff from the AH (not the good stuff) and still had a bunch of 70 gear. That night was when they started the whole, "who ever gets a bigger upgrade from it, gets the gear". So I lost out on every single ret drop that night. Before that it had been to just roll, and if you got a couple pieces already, pass so some other people could get loot. I guess the idea behind changing the loot system was to get everyone ready for Ulduar, but instead people like me got punished for grinding the appropriate reps, running heroics over and over, and farming mats for crafted gear. And we did that because we were told we had to meet minimum requirements to go raids. If had only known I could suck and just loot sponge my way to epics.....

    I guess they've gone back to a roll need if you need system now.



    Edit: Actually, yeah, I did say something about that before but I'm not getting rid of it now.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    The modified stuff I take into account:

    The actual numbers on the roll.
    How many upgrades people have received in one night.
    How long a person has been waiting for the upgrade.
    How long the person has gone without getting an upgrade.
    How big of an upgrade that is for the person.
    How long they have been raiding (this is always in conjunction with other things)

    In an attempt to preserve fairness, I don't tend to take anything into account other than the actual numbers on the rolls when I am rolling against people. Well, that and the amount of loot received in one night. I feel that it is OK for me to use deference for other people, but not for me to use deference for personal benefit.

    If I get rewarded as the leader, it is because other people choose to give to me, not because I force people to.

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  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    How the hell do you only do 900 and 1500 dps as a ret pally at 80? He must have had a green weapon or something. I was in nothing but quest blues and a epic and doing 2k in heroics.

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  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Like I said, still wearing a bunch of 70 gear. And it's not like it came from SWP or anything.

    With a combination of rep/crafted/heroic gear, I started Naxx at 2500.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    You can do 2k in heroics easy. The boss fights are absurdly short (few last much longer than your AW) and most are filled with trash that you can get incidentally high damage on from DS and consecrate. It is not at all a good measuring stick for a lot of naxx fights.

    And it makes a huge difference if you are doing Naxx25 or Naxx10.

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  • Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The modified stuff I take into account:

    The actual numbers on the roll.
    How many upgrades people have received in one night.
    How long a person has been waiting for the upgrade.
    How long the person has gone without getting an upgrade.
    How big of an upgrade that is for the person.
    How long they have been raiding (this is always in conjunction with other things)

    In an attempt to preserve fairness, I don't tend to take anything into account other than the actual numbers on the rolls when I am rolling against people. Well, that and the amount of loot received in one night. I feel that it is OK for me to use deference for other people, but not for me to use deference for personal benefit.

    If I get rewarded as the leader, it is because other people choose to give to me, not because I force people to.
    It helps that we tend to get jack shit for drops.

    Seattle Thread on
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yeah the RNG seems to think we run raids of 10 holy paladins for some reason.

    -SPI- on
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Oh group is mostly need if you need, greed for off spec/dual spec and pass for sharding. It is mostly so we can push through Naxx as fast as possible. For the most part it is a good system. But the system also has the unwritten rules that if you have gotten a lot of loot today but someone else hasn't won any, just pass. Loot comes again. If someone has gotten any loot for a while due to bad rolls/no drops when stuff drops for them we all pass. Some loot goes to certain people for the good of the raid. This is usually decided before hand and we just accept it as group.

    This works because the group knows each other really well, we know what each other really needs and we try our best to improve our raid. Also this is a 10 man, which makes it easier. And yes, this may have screwed one or two pug people out of some gear for a regular but that regular is there weekly on time and ready to go, the pug is filling in.

    25 mans I still haven't found a perfect loot system. My guild uses an all or nothing dkp system. You win something your dkp goes to 0, off spec makes you loose 30 points. It works for the most part.

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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    You can do sarth3d on 25 with 20 people.

    20 well-geared non-morons, yes.

    _J_ on
  • dasnoobdasnoob ArkansasRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Ours is loot council which is fine by me. If you are a shit player then you will only get an item if noone worth a damn wants it. We had a warlock along yesterday who wouldn't use vent and didn't listen to instructions. We just let him die and laughed about it in vent.

    I discovered two more things last night:
    1) We have 5 females in our regular 25-man (not sure how the hell that happened)
    2) Bacardi Gold + Coke makes the raid much more fun. Oh, and somehow I managed to not get hit once on heigan dance even though I was drunk. Yes, I talked much shit to the people that died on the dance after that.

    It was the first time we've got a 25-man naxx to actually go. So I now have two pieces of 25-man gear (fury of five flights, sigil of awareness which rocks by the way).

    In conclusions, I'm having way more fun this time than ever before playing WoW. I think it is my guild's fault. They are actually fun to play with.

    dasnoob on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    _J_ wrote: »
    You can do sarth3d on 25 with 20 people.

    20 well-geared non-morons, yes.

    You can't do sarth3d with 8 people.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Wow. Doing 19 man naxx went surprisingly better than 25 man with 6 pugs. A little close to some enrage timers (olol patchwerk) but we beat them nonetheless. And no loot whore drama to boot. We may do this every week.

    We actually did better on time because there wasn't random AFKs or anything.

    bowen on
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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    dasnoob wrote: »
    fury of five flights, sigil of awareness which rocks by the way

    Fury of the Five Flights drops but I never win it.

    Sigil of Awareness has dropped once, and the person who won it subsequently whispered to me "LoL I might not even use it"

    So... I hate you.

    Wassermelone on
  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Wow... not use the Sigil of awareness? That takes a special breed.

    TheGerbil on

  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Wow... not use the Sigil of awareness? That takes a special breed.

    I think he was specced for dual wield (maybe he will use it this next patch? still...) who really don't get the largest buff from the Sigil. Or he could have just been stupid.

    Wassermelone on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Wow... not use the Sigil of awareness? That takes a special breed.

    I think he was specced for dual wield (maybe he will use it this next patch? still...) who really don't get the largest buff from the Sigil. Or he could have just been stupid.

    Ok so someone who won't get any use out of the ability... Takes it and taunts you he won't use it? Man I don't know if I'd want to be in that guild.

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  • dasnoobdasnoob ArkansasRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    We are changing our loot system:

    1 point per 2 hours of attendance
    1 point to exceptional raider
    1 point for attending all raids in a week
    Resets at first of each month

    1 point to bid normal epic
    3 points to bid tier
    5 points for best in slot

    You send bid to your class officer, loot council of three determines who gets what.
    To bid 25-man the item you upgrade must be at least 80 blue
    To bid 10-man the item you upgrade much be at least 78 blue

    I completely dislike this idea. For one thing I have a green trinket I guess will never get upgraded along with a blue ring. All my other gear is heroic/10/25 epic. I am NOT going to run heroics to try to upgrade the ring and trinket to an 80 blue so I can get that slot filled with naxx gear. We'll see, we have a naxx run tonight and I'm sure it will be discussed.

    edit: I mostly dislike the item requirement to get loot. I am probably in the top 3 geared of our raiders and even I don't meet that requirement for every slot.

    dasnoob on
  • DietarySupplementDietarySupplement Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    dasnoob wrote: »
    We are changing our loot system:

    1 point per 2 hours of attendance
    1 point to exceptional raider
    1 point for attending all raids in a week
    Resets at first of each month

    1 point to bid normal epic
    3 points to bid tier
    5 points for best in slot

    You send bid to your class officer, loot council of three determines who gets what.
    To bid 25-man the item you upgrade must be at least 80 blue
    To bid 10-man the item you upgrade much be at least 78 blue

    I completely dislike this idea. For one thing I have a green trinket I guess will never get upgraded along with a blue ring. All my other gear is heroic/10/25 epic. I am NOT going to run heroics to try to upgrade the ring and trinket to an 80 blue so I can get that slot filled with naxx gear. We'll see, we have a naxx run tonight and I'm sure it will be discussed.

    edit: I mostly dislike the item requirement to get loot. I am probably in the top 3 geared of our raiders and even I don't meet that requirement for every slot.

    That is way too fucking complicated.

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  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    dasnoob wrote: »
    I am NOT going to run heroics to try to upgrade the ring and trinket to an 80 blue so I can get that slot filled with naxx gear.

    Why not? Unless the green/blue in question is one of those weird "it's better than some epics" things due to its specific stats, you have no excuse not to be trying to upgrade your gear in heroics. If an upgrade is available, and you don't want to make the effort, why should you be given an upgrade in Naxx? Clearly you don't care that much about getting a better item in that slot or you'd be trying to get one in heroics...

    riz on
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  • ArkanArkan Registered User
    edited March 2009
    I think holding that requirement for trinkets is silly, since some green trinkets (off the top of my head, Death Knight's Anguish and Crusader's Locket) are really solid and probably as good as many blues.

    Otherwise, that's actually not a bad idea, since it discourages terrible people in greens just skipping straight to raids and getting carried through.

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  • bejeavisbejeavis Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    And then there are the people that take time to gear out as much as they can in heroics and stuff, watching upgrades getting passed to other people because it is a bigger upgrade for them. Yay.

    bejeavis on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    riz wrote: »
    dasnoob wrote: »
    I am NOT going to run heroics to try to upgrade the ring and trinket to an 80 blue so I can get that slot filled with naxx gear.

    Why not? Unless the green/blue in question is one of those weird "it's better than some epics" things due to its specific stats, you have no excuse not to be trying to upgrade your gear in heroics. If an upgrade is available, and you don't want to make the effort, why should you be given an upgrade in Naxx? Clearly you don't care that much about getting a better item in that slot or you'd be trying to get one in heroics...

    Yeah I'm with you Riz, outside of the item being better than any other trinket, you should at least be making the effort instead of going "EPICS PLZ!"

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  • dasnoobdasnoob ArkansasRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Actually shit, I'm an idiot. I was thinking before I got fury. Now I have epics in both trinket slots so it doesn't matter. The only piece I have that I wouldn't be able to upgrade with the new rules is a ring (that might meet the requirements I just don't remember).

    For those saying stop crying blahblah.

    I am the #1 dps person in the guild (the officers, raid leaders, and guild leader have said this not me). I top damage most boss fights. More importantly I never miss a raid. I never leave early. I watch tankspot videos and read strategy so they never have to worry about me knowing what to do. There has even been times when I've led the 10-man due to our regular RL for that group being gone. I've brought up my concerns to our guild leadership and I trust them to make a sensible decision. If they want to stick with the system I'm willing to give it a shot for a while and see how it works out. They are fun enough to raid with that I'm not going to let the loot system determine whether I play with them or not.

    I mostly think this is too complicated. Our old system worked fine but I guess someone didn't like it for some reason.

    dasnoob on
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    bejeavis wrote: »
    And then there are the people that take time to gear out as much as they can in heroics and stuff, watching upgrades getting passed to other people because it is a bigger upgrade for them. Yay.

    I've always felt that "dude in greens gets gear over dude in blues/lower-level purples because it's a bigger upgrade" is a retarded loot rule. If both players put in equal effort for their current gear (maybe the first player just has shit luck on trinket drops and everyone knows it) then fine, but not because the first guy just didn't bother doing any heroics cos he figured he'd get handed something in Naxx just by showing up.

    riz on
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    riz wrote: »
    bejeavis wrote: »
    And then there are the people that take time to gear out as much as they can in heroics and stuff, watching upgrades getting passed to other people because it is a bigger upgrade for them. Yay.

    I've always felt that "dude in greens gets gear over dude in blues/lower-level purples because it's a bigger upgrade" is a retarded loot rule. If both players put in equal effort for their current gear (maybe the first player just has shit luck on trinket drops and everyone knows it) then fine, but not because the first guy just didn't bother doing any heroics cos he figured he'd get handed something in Naxx just by showing up.

    Yeah if you just have shit luck there shouldn't be something that screws you over, but on the other hand it shouldn't help you either. Some rogue tried to pull that shit when I won the heroic shoulder drop that it would be a bigger upgrade for him. Uhh fuck you there are a limit of good tanking shoulders that drop anywhere jerk off and I've had the crusader square pauldron for fucking ever.

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  • Just Some DudeJust Some Dude Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    "The Biggest Upgrade" rule is dumb.

    I've been the #1 DPS in our raids forever as Ret, often hundreds or occasionally thousands of DPS over the other DPS classes. I attend almost every raid, and I bring flasks and feasts.

    Despite this, there is approximately zero chance I'll ever get a Betrayer of Humanity because of the revolving door of other melee DPS and people respeccing from prot to DPS or what have you, and dual-wield DKs gearing up for 3.1 2-H DPS. We've seen 7 Betrayers in the last 8 weeks, and not a single one of them has ever shown up to another raid.

    I know the guild officers are annoyed by this actually, but since we're always forced to pug 4-6 people and pugs on my server are smart enough to refuse to come if there are any loot rules other than open rolls, there's not much chance of it changing any time soon.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    "The Biggest Upgrade" rule is dumb.

    I've been the #1 DPS in our raids forever as Ret, often hundreds or occasionally thousands of DPS over the other DPS classes. I attend almost every raid, and I bring flasks and feasts.

    Despite this, there is approximately zero chance I'll ever get a Betrayer of Humanity because of the revolving door of other melee DPS and people respeccing from prot to DPS or what have you, and dual-wield DKs gearing up for 3.1 2-H DPS. We've seen 7 Betrayers in the last 8 weeks, and not a single one of them has ever shown up to another raid.

    I know the guild officers are annoyed by this actually, but since we're always forced to pug 4-6 people and pugs on my server are smart enough to refuse to come if there are any loot rules other than open rolls, there's not much chance of it changing any time soon.

    That's total bullshit man, at that point your guild should just give you one, other people be fucking damned. My guild hasn't had that mace drop yet.

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  • bejeavisbejeavis Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I have basically resigned to the fact that I will be bringing Death's Bite into Ulduar. My casual guild imploded, and the guild I am in at the moment is very cliquey. Like I showed up to a raid last week (Naxx25), I have 4 or 5 BiS pieces for DK tanking, and the remaining pieces are 10 man pieces and chanted and gemmed just so. Anyway, I got to take a back seat to the guild main tank (Don't really mind this), one of their regular offtanks (also, no problem here), but the third tank was a DK alt (I hate other Death Knight tanks. They frustrate me to no end.). Not only was it an alt, it was an alt in quest gear and blues. Needless to say, he was lootstormed. While I was being chewed out for not respeccing DPS for the raid. I didn't show for this week's raid. Actually, wait, let me check... I might be looking for a new guild.

    So yeah, tl;dr- Cliques suck, people (alts even) getting carried in raids whilst getting lootstormed over other players that are actually contributing also really sucks. And it really happens.

    bejeavis on
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Oh good, I'm not the only one who got dicked over by the "bigger upgrade" mentality.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm the third tank for my guilds heroic naxx, and I swear its like they think I'm first retard or something. It's nice to be able to tank things, but being 3rd tank means I tank something only when the other two epically fail. Like on heigan when the MT wasn't moving him out of the zones about to get hit.

    Preacher on
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The best tanks are really the off tanks. They have to do more than go "I'M HERE HIT ME WITH SOMETHING."

    The off tanks usually shine at fights like heigan, saph, or kel where you have to move.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yeah Ot's have to be willing to become an MT at a moments notice. Though I do get to mt on Gluth because the mts like to kite chow.

    Preacher on
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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm so far 2 for 2 on "OH SHIT TANK DIED I WILL TANK SAPPHIRON YOU CAN THANK ME LATER" as a DPS warrior. :) Lived both times for most of a phase until a legitimate offtank managed to outthreat me.

    Dehumanized on
  • dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm so far 2 for 2 on "OH SHIT TANK DIED I WILL TANK SAPPHIRON YOU CAN THANK ME LATER" as a DPS warrior. :) Lived both times for most of a phase until a legitimate offtank managed to outthreat me.

    more like 2 for 2 on the "I will tank sapph you can thank the healers later because they healed through it" scale.

    dojango on
  • CharusCharus Registered User
    edited March 2009
    I'm so far 2 for 2 on "OH SHIT TANK DIED I WILL TANK SAPPHIRON YOU CAN THANK ME LATER" as a DPS warrior. :) Lived both times for most of a phase until a legitimate offtank managed to outthreat me.

    I could have legitimately offtanked it (lawl Survival of the Fittest), but when I saw Sapphiron turn and start cleaving I hit sprint and ran away. Fuck that.

    Charus on
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    dasnoob wrote: »
    We are changing our loot system:

    1 point per 2 hours of attendance
    1 point to exceptional raider
    1 point for attending all raids in a week
    Resets at first of each month

    1 point to bid normal epic
    3 points to bid tier
    5 points for best in slot

    You send bid to your class officer, loot council of three determines who gets what.
    To bid 25-man the item you upgrade must be at least 80 blue
    To bid 10-man the item you upgrade much be at least 78 blue

    I completely dislike this idea. For one thing I have a green trinket I guess will never get upgraded along with a blue ring. All my other gear is heroic/10/25 epic. I am NOT going to run heroics to try to upgrade the ring and trinket to an 80 blue so I can get that slot filled with naxx gear. We'll see, we have a naxx run tonight and I'm sure it will be discussed.

    edit: I mostly dislike the item requirement to get loot. I am probably in the top 3 geared of our raiders and even I don't meet that requirement for every slot.

    The loophole for trinkets and rings would be that you only have to have one that meets the asinine requirement.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Our MT is dumb, he carries around like 8 sets of gear for threat, mitigation, avoidance, hp, and all that jaz. I passively took threat from him on noth25 last night because he's a dumb fuck and min-maxes but fails at it. This isn't even including a blink.

    Ugh, the stupid is starting to come back and I think it's time for me to start gkicking retards again.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • dasnoobdasnoob ArkansasRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yeah the idea is biggest upgrade, but it falls to who gets the votes in council.

    Are you a dick
    Odds are you won't get votes
    etcetc

    At this point I just wish they would go straight DKP, zero-sum, or suicide kings and call it a day.

    dasnoob on
  • ArkanArkan Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Hmmm.

    Is it just me, or is ulduar severely lacking in slow one-handed weapons appropriate for the MH slot with several specs? The only one I see there that my DK could use, for instance, is Malice.

    And yet there's roughly 15 fast offhands there. I find this utterly perplexing. Why are there so many fast nondagger/fist weapon offhands, yet so few slow nondagger/fist weapon mainhands?

    I get that many of these are tanking/spelldamage weapons, but there's still far more offhand-appropriate weapons than there are mainhand-appropriate weapons.

    Arkan on
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