Its funny, we were planning on doing Heartbreaker this week before we found out about the nerfs. We've already completed Rare Cache and Lose Your Illusion so I don't have any doubt that we could have gotten Heartbreaker pre-nerf. Friday night we're going for Smell of Saronite. We put some time on this about 2 weeks ago and got him to about 35% on our best attempt. With the 10% damage reduction, I bet we get him tomorrow.
A fuckton of 10-man guilds on my server posted Heartbreaker kills this week. My 10-man hasn't gone in yet but it seems like the nerf was a hefty one.
Yeah... my 10-man group just tried it for the first time this week. Other than taking longer than a normal kill, the mechanics of the hard mode seemed easier than the normal mode.
TheTish on
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
Heartbreaker got nerfed into the ground. The old version required around 25k raid dps beat the enrage timer ignoring the dps you need to put out to kill the light sparks, the new version requires around 17k which makes it considerable easier to achieve as for 5 dps that drops the number from 5k to 3.5k, not to mention that the adds now have no health and his damage was considerably reduced. We also did it last night and we're surprised how easy it was, and I'd put it on the same level as Thorim or Hodir, but the pre-nerf version seems like it would have been insane, though 2 healing it and bringing a 6th dps would at least bring the dps check into the doable category.
A fuckton of 10-man guilds on my server posted Heartbreaker kills this week. My 10-man hasn't gone in yet but it seems like the nerf was a hefty one.
Yeah... my 10-man group just tried it for the first time this week. Other than taking longer than a normal kill, the mechanics of the hard mode seemed easier than the normal mode.
Wait, so the mechanics are straight up different? I just assumed it was some stuff thrown in in addition to the normal mode mechanics. What's changed, then?
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
No adds, he hits harder, Light Bombs leave behind Light Sparks which shoot chain lightnings, and Gravity Bombs leave behind void zones.
Oh, the adds don't come? That sounds like sort of a relief given they seem to trouble my crummy raids so much. So does your off tank (or tanks, in 25) taunt and tank the sparks? What sort of health do the sparks have? Sounds like your ranged DPS would have more time on XT.
How often do the melee in your raids need to break off to help kill scrapbots before they get to XT?
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Sparks have minimal health.
Our melee don't often need to break off. Usually when they do, its when you get multiple spawns in a row of scrap bots on from one pile, with no bomb bots spawned there to help kill them.
Any advice for 10-man FL+4? We did +3 last week and it was difficult but we got the hang of it eventually. Now we have to add Freya, though. Adds everywhere.
riz on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
in our practise attempts we experimented with having a siege tank and a bike handle it, but we found that, if the other siege tank was the kite target, Flame Vents then couldn't be interrupted.
We tried having both bikes on it, but you need the tar down in front of him, so eventually we settled on a demo and a bike.
I THINK that if you kept tar down in front of where the adds come, and had someone ready to light it, a bike could handle it solo.
The demo passengers and the siege passengers can both light it, I believe with the anti air rocket, but it might be the boulder instead.
For 10 man how many people are thrown up on FL? We tried only 1 person this week so that the other demo passenger could keep the demo stocked with pyrite and tried to keep a 10 stack rolling the whole encounter. Is this the way most people do it or instead do you stock up on pyrite, throw both up and then stock back up when they drop or is the whole pyrite thing really not worth doing? One thing I did think of was to launch the passenger and then switch seats to hook pyrite for myself, but the one time I tried it the vehicle despawned which kind of screwed that attempt.
So, hodir hardmode: From listening in on my guild's attempts (I'm sitting out because I'm a tank and suck as dps), it seems like they're having trouble differentiating between the +crit damage light and the haste light? I dunno, I'm not 100% sure what's going on in there since I'm not actually in the raid, but do you guys have any tips for getting people in the right place in the heat of the moment?
Edit: They might just be retards, which is not at all out of the question for my raid.
So, hodir hardmode: From listening in on my guild's attempts (I'm sitting out because I'm a tank and suck as dps), it seems like they're having trouble differentiating between the +crit damage light and the haste light? I dunno, I'm not 100% sure what's going on in there since I'm not actually in the raid, but do you guys have any tips for getting people in the right place in the heat of the moment?
the crit damage light isn't a light. It's something the shaman (or whoever) casts on players and gives them an electrical charge type thing on their persons and if you stand in close proximity to the person with the buff you get it too. The haste buff light looks like those light pillar items you get from the lunar festival and anyone who stands inside the pillar gets the haste buff.
The crit buff is cast on a single person and then affects that person plus up to four* other people that touch him. At least 1 caster in the group should stand near the toasty fire and apply the singed debuff, 2% more magic damage per stack with up to 25 stacks, and all the ranged should be fairly close to each other to take advantage of storm power, though still spread out if they don't have it so they all don't need to move from falling ice. The haste buff is useful, but harder to utilize than the other two given how small an area it affects and the chance for a icicle to fall on it, though for melee the tank can position Hodir near one. You also may want to free the mage first if your having trouble keeping singed up and if your cutting it close there is a little luck involved with buffs and where stuff lands.
*Unsure if this number is different for 10 and 25 or the same.
khain on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
for 25 any number of people seem to be able to get it
So this Storm Cloud spell on the Hodir fight. In order to spread it, is it just to anybody within a certain range, or do you have to physically touch them?
We're on Hodir now, and we're having some problems with him. Mostly it's just people not moving out of shit enough and taking too much damage, especially during Frozen Blows. We've just about got that under control though. But it turns out we're missing on a bunch of extra damage with this fire and cloud info that we didn't know about before.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
So this Storm Cloud spell on the Hodir fight. In order to spread it, is it just to anybody within a certain range, or do you have to physically touch them?
We're on Hodir now, and we're having some problems with him. Mostly it's just people not moving out of shit enough and taking too much damage, especially during Frozen Blows. We've just about got that under control though. But it turns out we're missing on a bunch of extra damage with this fire and cloud info that we didn't know about before.
He casts it on one person. You don't spread it, you just have to be in close proximity to the person who has the actual buff. By "touch" I don't think you have to click on them, though, just be very close to them.
So this Storm Cloud spell on the Hodir fight. In order to spread it, is it just to anybody within a certain range, or do you have to physically touch them?
We're on Hodir now, and we're having some problems with him. Mostly it's just people not moving out of shit enough and taking too much damage, especially during Frozen Blows. We've just about got that under control though. But it turns out we're missing on a bunch of extra damage with this fire and cloud info that we didn't know about before.
He casts it on one person. You don't spread it, you just have to be in close proximity to the person who has the actual buff. By "touch" I don't think you have to click on them, though, just be very close to them.
Well, by touch I was thinking more like you had to move you character on or through somebody.
So it's just more like be near the person for it. Awesome, thanks.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
My crappy 10 man was incapable of killing Hodir last night. We had a couple PUGs, but we just didn't seem to have the healing for it and Frozen Blows seemed to be raping the raid. Even when we had the oomkin respec to a third healer, not enough people were living. I looked at recount and generally there wasn't much damage being taken from Icicles or Biting Cold, except for the PUG resto druid was taking a shitload of damage from Biting Cold (why!?), but he was also healing a shitload so he sort of evened out, I guess? I don't know. It was a mess, and it was depressing.
I tend to take more Biting Cold damage than I should, because I can see the rate of my own health decreasing so I know when it's relatively safe and sometimes if i stop casting that PoH to move, someone else IS going to die.
Anyway there are paladin tricks to help mitigate Frozen Blows damage, if you happen to have one. Either Aura Mastery or bubble+Divine Sacrifice will make at least one Frozen Blows trivial.
I just hate Frozen Blows because it's raid damage, and healing raid damage is a huge mana sacrifice as a disc priest, yet I'm still obligating to do it in addition to making sure the tank stays up.
I tend to take more Biting Cold damage than I should, because I can see the rate of my own health decreasing so I know when it's relatively safe and sometimes if i stop casting that PoH to move, someone else IS going to die.
How many cast time abilities should a resto druid be casting, though? Also, getting hit for a tick here and there is going to amount to like 10k damage over the fight, which isn't that bad. The druid was taking 30-50k damage from it, depending on how long it took to wipe.
Anyway there are paladin tricks to help mitigate Frozen Blows damage, if you happen to have one. Either Aura Mastery or bubble+Divine Sacrifice will make at least one Frozen Blows trivial.
We didn't have a paladin last night, nor a shaman, so our frost resist came only from MotW.
We keep missing Hodir hard by 10 secs or so on 25, and it's getting really annoying. Always 3 - 4 dps doing 4k or so dps and 1 - 3 people dying which makes it hard. We've tried from 3 - 5 healers, with no real tangible difference - 5 means noone die but we lose 2 dps spots, with 3 there's always some idiot getting hit and killed which I don't understand myself. We've had a full raid night's worth of tries on him and I didn't die once before wipes were called, so how people manage to do it is a mystery to me. This was with 3 healers too.
I'm not an expert or anything on the hard mode fight, but are you guys calling out the person who gets the crit cloud so the dps can attempt to cluster around him? This would also give the healers a chance to get some AoE heals in without worrying about people being outside range.
We keep missing Hodir hard by 10 secs or so on 25, and it's getting really annoying. Always 3 - 4 dps doing 4k or so dps and 1 - 3 people dying which makes it hard. We've tried from 3 - 5 healers, with no real tangible difference - 5 means noone die but we lose 2 dps spots, with 3 there's always some idiot getting hit and killed which I don't understand myself. We've had a full raid night's worth of tries on him and I didn't die once before wipes were called, so how people manage to do it is a mystery to me. This was with 3 healers too.
We do it with four healers: Three would be doable, but our raid isn't perfect. Five would be too many for our group, we usually have a couple offspec healers/tanks in that aren't doing the bajillion DPS we'd need. But yeah, everyone needs to be relatively focused to make it. (I say relatively because we can pretty much fix anything that happens between Frozen Blows) If someone gets hit by an icicle during FB, they'll probably die and we wont make it. If Mass Dispel misses someone during FB, they'll probably die and we wont make it.
I think BigWigs has an announce for the crit buff; I never had any problem noticing my hands glowing with lightning, but I know our Ele Shamans sure did for whatever reason. We also try to tag the tank with the first crit thing; His threat skyrockets so the DPS don't have to hold back, then he starts singing to himself about it which is exceptionally cute. (I don't think he realizes his mic is picking it up)
We also try to tag the tank with the first crit thing; His threat skyrockets so the DPS don't have to hold back, then he starts singing to himself about it which is exceptionally cute. (I don't think he realizes his mic is picking it up)
We've done with 4 too, generally we don't notice a difference from 3 either in dps or healing though. We have anyone getting cloud run into melee since we didn't have that many ranged dpsers and they were spread out. We had some trouble with one healer not paying attention to the buff and not moving, but I'm not convinced having 6+ people stopping dps to run to whoever gets cloud would work better.
Serpico on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
His threat skyrockets so the DPS don't have to hold back, then he starts singing to himself about it which is exceptionally cute. (I don't think he realizes his mic is picking it up)
And that's why I keep push to talk enabled. But my ex-gf caught me a few times singing softly during fights. There were a couple of sea shanties that fit my threat cycle so she heard me singing "Drunken Sailor" or "Saucy Sailor Boy". Sometimes she'd catch me doing other songs for other fights. The time I was singing "Excitable Boy" during a fight was kinda .
One of our resto druids (he may pop in to confirm this, actually) claims that he would find songs where the tempo matched his current GCD so that he could roll Lifeblooms to the beat.
I wish our bad people were doing ~4K DPS on Hodir...
Also, how much do your raids demand that the melee break off to unfreeze the NPCs? Do the ranged take care of most/all of them or does everyone have to do it? I think our raids gimp our overall Hodir DPS a lot by having the melee scramble around to kill adds, but maybe that's just how it's done?
Posts
Yeah... my 10-man group just tried it for the first time this week. Other than taking longer than a normal kill, the mechanics of the hard mode seemed easier than the normal mode.
-- Gnome mage enchantress and inscriptionologist... er scribbler --
How often do the melee in your raids need to break off to help kill scrapbots before they get to XT?
Our melee don't often need to break off. Usually when they do, its when you get multiple spawns in a row of scrap bots on from one pile, with no bomb bots spawned there to help kill them.
We tried having both bikes on it, but you need the tar down in front of him, so eventually we settled on a demo and a bike.
I THINK that if you kept tar down in front of where the adds come, and had someone ready to light it, a bike could handle it solo.
I think its only the anti air missiles on the tanks that can do it, and the demolishers can use either missiles or catapults.
For 10 man how many people are thrown up on FL? We tried only 1 person this week so that the other demo passenger could keep the demo stocked with pyrite and tried to keep a 10 stack rolling the whole encounter. Is this the way most people do it or instead do you stock up on pyrite, throw both up and then stock back up when they drop or is the whole pyrite thing really not worth doing? One thing I did think of was to launch the passenger and then switch seats to hook pyrite for myself, but the one time I tried it the vehicle despawned which kind of screwed that attempt.
Edit: They might just be retards, which is not at all out of the question for my raid.
the crit damage light isn't a light. It's something the shaman (or whoever) casts on players and gives them an electrical charge type thing on their persons and if you stand in close proximity to the person with the buff you get it too. The haste buff light looks like those light pillar items you get from the lunar festival and anyone who stands inside the pillar gets the haste buff.
*Unsure if this number is different for 10 and 25 or the same.
We're on Hodir now, and we're having some problems with him. Mostly it's just people not moving out of shit enough and taking too much damage, especially during Frozen Blows. We've just about got that under control though. But it turns out we're missing on a bunch of extra damage with this fire and cloud info that we didn't know about before.
He casts it on one person. You don't spread it, you just have to be in close proximity to the person who has the actual buff. By "touch" I don't think you have to click on them, though, just be very close to them.
Well, by touch I was thinking more like you had to move you character on or through somebody.
So it's just more like be near the person for it. Awesome, thanks.
for such a cold room, its surprisingly hot in there :winky:
Most of the fight I play with those red borders and the screen making that 'woosh' sound that means the boss is about to sock me in the jaw.
Fortunately feint is awesome for frozen blows.
Anyway there are paladin tricks to help mitigate Frozen Blows damage, if you happen to have one. Either Aura Mastery or bubble+Divine Sacrifice will make at least one Frozen Blows trivial.
We didn't have a paladin last night, nor a shaman, so our frost resist came only from MotW.
We do it with four healers: Three would be doable, but our raid isn't perfect. Five would be too many for our group, we usually have a couple offspec healers/tanks in that aren't doing the bajillion DPS we'd need. But yeah, everyone needs to be relatively focused to make it. (I say relatively because we can pretty much fix anything that happens between Frozen Blows) If someone gets hit by an icicle during FB, they'll probably die and we wont make it. If Mass Dispel misses someone during FB, they'll probably die and we wont make it.
I think BigWigs has an announce for the crit buff; I never had any problem noticing my hands glowing with lightning, but I know our Ele Shamans sure did for whatever reason.
Hahahaha.
And that's why I keep push to talk enabled. But my ex-gf caught me a few times singing softly during fights. There were a couple of sea shanties that fit my threat cycle so she heard me singing "Drunken Sailor" or "Saucy Sailor Boy". Sometimes she'd catch me doing other songs for other fights. The time I was singing "Excitable Boy" during a fight was kinda
Also, how much do your raids demand that the melee break off to unfreeze the NPCs? Do the ranged take care of most/all of them or does everyone have to do it? I think our raids gimp our overall Hodir DPS a lot by having the melee scramble around to kill adds, but maybe that's just how it's done?
Also, break the mage adds out first. They'll DoT up flash freezes for you, so you can spend a little less effort breaking shit out.