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NotYouNotYou Registered User regular
edited September 2018 in Help / Advice Forum
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  • THEPAIN73THEPAIN73 Shiny. Real shiny.Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Long legs help but I usually keep elbows slightly stiff and keep my wrists in such a way that it looks like I am hammering.

    That's just me though.

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  • Richard_DastardlyRichard_Dastardly Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I've always found running with a longer stride to be more efficient and less tiring. I dunno the science behind it, though. If you're getting tired then maybe you're lengthening your stride too much... or, maybe your legs will just get used to it.

    I dunno if this'll help you too, but I breathe on a 6-step cycle (made that up). Basically, it takes me three steps to inhale and three steps to exhale.

    Richard_Dastardly on
  • ApexMirageApexMirage Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Same here, I try and maintain 6 steps per breath on a treadmill. Lengthening your stride will most likely make you have to switch to 4 steps per breath, which I'd *guess* makes you more tired (lungs have to process more air in less time?)

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  • Beren39Beren39 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It's really a compromise between function and comfortability. A long stride can be beneficial but tiring to maintain. Work on what feels most comfortable for you in terms of length, keeping in mind that it is reasonable to adjust even part-way through a run. Stride comes into consideration a lot more when considering terrain, halving it and slightly stooping your shoulders when traversing a hill for example. It's one of the biggest areas of contention for cross country runners.

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  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Shorter strides are more efficient. But it's best to just run at a stride that feels natural to you.

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  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    As you run and your legs and core muscles get stronger, your stride tends to get naturally longer. That's why novice runners tend to appear more of a shuffling jogger, moderate runners have a standard looking stride, and veteran runners almost appear to be floating along with occaisional ground contact.

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  • Richard_DastardlyRichard_Dastardly Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'd assumed that shorter strides = more work to acheive the same distance as a longer stride.

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  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'd assumed that shorter strides = more work to acheive the same distance as a longer stride.

    Longer strides require more "bounce" during the stride, which requires the muscles to work a little harder for more lift, and the movement range of the muscle groups is longer as well. Once you've been running for a while the muscles get used to the form and become more efficient at maintaining it.

    Ruckus on
  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'd assumed that shorter strides = more work to acheive the same distance as a longer stride.

    You have to lift your leg higher to achieve a longer stride—that's basically wasted energy from a running standpoint. It will help you generate more power and therefore you'll run faster, but it's not sustainable. A short stride with minimal knee lift means more energy going towards pushing you forward, less wasted lifting your knees.

    This all relative to each runner, of course. Sure, Ryan Hall's stride is probably twice as long as mine, but it's still a short stride for him.

    This is a video of Ryan Hall and Josh Cox (two of the best distance runners in the US) training, watch their knees and see how little they rise...just enough to get their feet underneath them. Very efficient stride, but relatively short. Not a lot of wasted energy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcUmGzciPfo

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  • XantusXantus Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    step one. don't run on a treadmill. don't run on cement. find a beach/grassland/anything natural. even running on hard dirt is better than concrete. context and environment are important. so are your knees.

    step two. transition to running barefoot. zombies don't give a thug about your crosstrainers. survival is gonna matter at some point in your life...

    Xantus on
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I just wanted to chime in to agree with Runningman. There was a great article in the NYT like two years ago, which my feeble NYT search skills failed to elicit for you here. The article summarized recent research and anecdotal experience from top level runners.

    It concluded that worrying about one's form or stride is counterproductive because our bodies naturally do what is a) the most comfortable and b) the most-energy efficient for us in running. Other sources i've read at times disagree (Hal Higdon's marathon book and other Runner's World related materials), and it might be worth trying to run how someone else tells you for a little while if you're just starting, but i'd do what comes naturally as long as you're getting results.

    However, I believe the NYT article and what Runningman said- I finished my marathon because I could do my truffle shuffle at high speeds rather than try to force my legs to do big, tiring strides. If i'm trying to do intervals, my stride might get much longer as I really push my legs, but it isn't sustainable for a run of any appreciable length.

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  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Speaking of running correctly. I remember once I was at a friends place just stretching and he mentioned that theres a certain way to stretch before you run, so that while you run you automatically work off of your Glut's and build up more muscle in them (break down the bubble butt).

    Do any of you know how this is done?

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  • VisionOfClarityVisionOfClarity Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    My trainer has always said the higher my incline or speed the shorter my step should be.

    I'm also getting a gait analysis in about 5 minutes at my gym. I desperately need new sneakers and need to make sure I'm the right kind for my stride. Most good athletic stores will do this for you as well (I know Marathon Sports does). Also, when you're running on a treadmill it should never be at a 0 incline, it should always be slightly inclined to mimic more of what it would be like outside.

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  • Black IceBlack Ice Charlotte, NCRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    ApexMirage wrote: »
    Same here, I try and maintain 6 steps per breath on a treadmill. Lengthening your stride will most likely make you have to switch to 4 steps per breath, which I'd *guess* makes you more tired (lungs have to process more air in less time?)

    Oh my god, I could never imagine that. Thinking about it, I must do 3 steps/breath. I used to inhale twice and exhale once. I don't even know what I do now; yesterday I ran 12 miles and I still can't recollect how I breath.

    Here's a video demonstrating good running form. Although they don't wear shoes, Kenyans don't get injuries because they use good running form. It's disturbing how many 5-star videos on YouTube, with tens of thousands of views, show poor running form. I just saw some guy with a ripped six pack showing horrible running form and everyone commenting in the video was praising him.

    As you've observed, it's different from person to person. People have different VO2 max (lung capacities) depending on the shape they're in, and the length of your legs also impact how often you stride.

    -Breath through your mouth. It gets your lungs pumping more oxygen and your blood circulates better.
    -Tuck your elbows in. Don't let them be inches away from your body.
    -Don't move your fists (arms) about willy-nilly; that's poor running form. They don't move a whole lot.

    Take a look at some triatheletes and other long-distance runners and watch their running form.

    Black Ice on
  • HypatiaHypatia Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    One of the things I read about running stride was that you should try to make sure that your leg isn't extending past your body on your strides, so if taking longer strides means that your weight is behind the leg then it's bad. Essentially it means you're taking the impact in the wrong direction (backward) and it forces you to work harder because all your momentum should be going forward.

    I'm not an expert though, I'd go with what everyone else is saying :)

    Hypatia on
  • ArcticXCArcticXC Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The more you run the more efficient your form gets, generally. I've seen some really good runners with some godawful form, but it's what works for them.

    Really though, if you're out running and you're speficially trying to adjust your form you'll probably screw yourself up.

    There are some ways to help poor form like inserts (or orthodics, if you have $$$) but in general it shouldn't be too much of a big deal unless you're logging in lots of mileage or have some sort of pain or pronation or whatever.

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  • Bacon-BuTTyBacon-BuTTy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I started running reletively recently, (Couple of months ago) and I am loving it. However I am a little confused when it comes to the stretching part of things.

    At first I was doing some stretching before I went out, but generally my legs would ache the day, and maybe the day after that even. I was definitely doing some damage there I think.

    But then I read the best way to do this is to warm up first, run for five minutes or so, and then stretch. And then start your run proper. I've been doing this since and seems to work alot better. However sometimes I occasionally suffer from sore legs for a couple of days after. I've missed runs before due to my legs just not feeling comfortable with it.

    I'm worried that I am doing some damage whenever this happens. Does anyone have any clear advice on how to avoid fucking my legs up when i run?

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  • Black IceBlack Ice Charlotte, NCRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    But then I read the best way to do this is to warm up first, run for five minutes or so, and then stretch. And then start your run proper. I've been doing this since and seems to work alot better. However sometimes I occasionally suffer from sore legs for a couple of days after. I've missed runs before due to my legs just not feeling comfortable with it.

    I'm worried that I am doing some damage whenever this happens. Does anyone have any clear advice on how to avoid fucking my legs up when i run?

    There's truth to this. You should never stretch a cold muscle as it's a great risk for injury. As a matter of fact, it's one of the reasons why athletes run laps before they take the field/court/whatever - they need to get their muscles warmed up for stretching. Running a few laps (or for a few minutes) is a great way to do that, and stretching afterward is a good way to prevent injury.

    Black Ice on
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I started running reletively recently, (Couple of months ago) and I am loving it. However I am a little confused when it comes to the stretching part of things.

    At first I was doing some stretching before I went out, but generally my legs would ache the day, and maybe the day after that even. I was definitely doing some damage there I think.

    But then I read the best way to do this is to warm up first, run for five minutes or so, and then stretch. And then start your run proper. I've been doing this since and seems to work alot better. However sometimes I occasionally suffer from sore legs for a couple of days after. I've missed runs before due to my legs just not feeling comfortable with it.

    I'm worried that I am doing some damage whenever this happens. Does anyone have any clear advice on how to avoid fucking my legs up when i run?

    You don't want to be doing any static stretching (holding a stretch - most people do this, but the scientific literature doesn't support it), really you can just start slowly and build up your speed over 10-15 minutes. Otherwise, 5 min jog and some dynamic stretches (leg raises, high knees, lunges, and joint circles).

    If you're legs are aching rather than say, a knee in pain then that's probably more the fact that you've only been running a couple of months and your body adapting to it. If you've not done so, look for a good pair of running shoes and some gate analysis to check if you're shoes need any particular support but there's not much else you can do except don't over do the running, mix it up with swimming and other cardio as well.

    Rook on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Not to piggyback on the thread, but I have a related question.

    Are there any general tips related to stride that can help lower impact and reduce related soreness? I've been running pretty consistently for six or eight months, and at this point after doing a couple miles I find I have more pain in my shins and knees than I do in my actual muscles.

    I'm relatively young and non arthritic (sp). I've also worked fairly hard on keeping my feet square, since I tend to come down on the outside edge, but any other advice?

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I started running reletively recently, (Couple of months ago) and I am loving it. However I am a little confused when it comes to the stretching part of things.

    At first I was doing some stretching before I went out, but generally my legs would ache the day, and maybe the day after that even. I was definitely doing some damage there I think.

    But then I read the best way to do this is to warm up first, run for five minutes or so, and then stretch. And then start your run proper. I've been doing this since and seems to work alot better. However sometimes I occasionally suffer from sore legs for a couple of days after. I've missed runs before due to my legs just not feeling comfortable with it.

    I'm worried that I am doing some damage whenever this happens. Does anyone have any clear advice on how to avoid fucking my legs up when i run?

    Stretching cold muscles is bad; if you're going to stretch, do what you've been doing and warm up first.

    For what its worth, no one has conclusively tied stretching to a lower injury rate, or vice versa. The general consensus is that, at least from a running standpoint, stretching doesn't matter. Notably, some world class runners don't stretch at all, and some stretch for an hour every day. Flexibility is generally a good thing; however.

    RUNN1NGMAN on
  • Black IceBlack Ice Charlotte, NCRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Not to piggyback on the thread, but I have a related question.

    Are there any general tips related to stride that can help lower impact and reduce related soreness? I've been running pretty consistently for six or eight months, and at this point after doing a couple miles I find I have more pain in my shins and knees than I do in my actual muscles.

    I'm relatively young and non arthritic (sp). I've also worked fairly hard on keeping my feet square, since I tend to come down on the outside edge, but any other advice?

    It sounds like you have shin splints or weak ligaments. Do you run on concrete? If so, consider running on a softer surface, like the local track, grass, or dirt. It lowers the impact and is easier on your body overall.

    Additionally, you can do leg extensions in the gym and it makes the tendons around your knees stronger. How badly do your knees hurt?

    Black Ice on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Black Ice wrote: »
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Not to piggyback on the thread, but I have a related question.

    Are there any general tips related to stride that can help lower impact and reduce related soreness? I've been running pretty consistently for six or eight months, and at this point after doing a couple miles I find I have more pain in my shins and knees than I do in my actual muscles.

    I'm relatively young and non arthritic (sp). I've also worked fairly hard on keeping my feet square, since I tend to come down on the outside edge, but any other advice?

    It sounds like you have shin splints or weak ligaments. Do you run on concrete? If so, consider running on a softer surface, like the local track, grass, or dirt. It lowers the impact and is easier on your body overall.

    Additionally, you can do leg extensions in the gym and it makes the tendons around your knees stronger. How badly do your knees hurt?

    I do mostly run on concrete; unfortunately there's a lack of decent urban trails where I live (more than a few do exist, they're just all paved.)

    I've known a few people with shin splints and I don't have anything near the pain I've heard them describe. There's arthritis in my family, but I've never had any particular knee problems. It's probably mostly the result of impact, I was just wondering if there's any addressing it from a technique standpoint.

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  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Not to piggyback on the thread, but I have a related question.

    Are there any general tips related to stride that can help lower impact and reduce related soreness? I've been running pretty consistently for six or eight months, and at this point after doing a couple miles I find I have more pain in my shins and knees than I do in my actual muscles.

    I'm relatively young and non arthritic (sp). I've also worked fairly hard on keeping my feet square, since I tend to come down on the outside edge, but any other advice?

    Don't do this!!! Trying to correct your stride in this way is very bad and can sent stresses through your joints all the way up to your back. First of all, pronation (rolling from the outside to the inside of your foot) is normal. A "neutral" stride, which you are trying to force, is actually not the norm. If you overpronate, you may need to try a different type of running shoe or get orthotics. But under no circumstances should you be consciously trying to correct your stride in this manner. I wouldn't be suprised that this, combined with wearing the wrong type of running shoe, is causing all your problems.

    Go to a specialty running store where someone can look at your stride and tell you what type of shoe you need. In the meantime, you can try the paper bag test to see what kind of arches you have and figure out what shoes you need on your own.

    http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-326-7152-0,00.html

    RUNN1NGMAN on
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