I've been away from Death Knighting for a while, and I see that the talent trees have changed pretty drastically in the interim. So, what's the new hotness in terms of build and skill rotation for a 2-hander solo DK? Is it still deep Unholy, despite the nerfing of Unholy Blight and Desecration? Can deep Unholy still AoE in melee?
So... when they add the new synergy on the talent trees, what are your guys thoughts on what they'll be adding? I am thinking health gain on blood, dual wield damage on frost, and... um... disease duration on unholy?
I've been away from Death Knighting for a while, and I see that the talent trees have changed pretty drastically in the interim. So, what's the new hotness in terms of build and skill rotation for a 2-hander solo DK? Is it still deep Unholy, despite the nerfing of Unholy Blight and Desecration? Can deep Unholy still AoE in melee?
Unholy is still the hotness for grinding, if that's what you're asking. Desecration wasn't nerfed per se, you still get the same effect in Desolation, it was just split apart in to two separate talents (Desecration is now the PvP talent, Desolation is the PvE talent).
The skill rotation for Unholy hasn't really changed at all. IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> SS, dump RP.
Unholy is still an AE powerhouse because of the shorter cool down on D&D, Wandering Plague, and the enhanced Plague diseases (Ebon Plague) that still get spread around by Pestilence.
I've been away from Death Knighting for a while, and I see that the talent trees have changed pretty drastically in the interim. So, what's the new hotness in terms of build and skill rotation for a 2-hander solo DK? Is it still deep Unholy, despite the nerfing of Unholy Blight and Desecration? Can deep Unholy still AoE in melee?
Unholy is still the hotness for grinding, if that's what you're asking. Desecration wasn't nerfed per se, you still get the same effect in Desolation, it was just split apart in to two separate talents (Desecration is now the PvP talent, Desolation is the PvE talent).
The skill rotation for Unholy hasn't really changed at all. IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> SS, dump RP.
Unholy is still an AE powerhouse because of the shorter cool down on D&D, Wandering Plague, and the enhanced Plague diseases (Ebon Plague) that still get spread around by Pestilence.
So... when they add the new synergy on the talent trees, what are your guys thoughts on what they'll be adding? I am thinking health gain on blood, dual wield damage on frost, and... um... disease duration on unholy?
Blood: I'd say a Health or Stamina increase and Armor Penetration.
Frost: I'd go with increased Frost Damage and increased Critical Damage Bonus.
Unholy. I'd venture a guess that diseases would be augmented across the board, as well as more Shadow Damage.
aunsoph on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
They've said each tree will get multiple mastery "roles" as well. Given that the DK is supposed to be able to tank in all three specs, I would imagine you'll see a DPS mastery role for each tree, and tanking mastery role for each tree.
Someone on EJ said that a tank wielding two slow weapons is actually parried less often than a tank wielding a single fast weapon.
Due to the miss...ratio?
How is all of that calculated again? Like... your chance to miss, then target chance to dodge,THEN target chance to block (if applicable), THEN THEN target chance to parry?
Also, is it just me or does 4T9 seem retardiculous for unholy? I haven't looked at any EJ number crunching on it or anything, but it just feels like it would be crazy good.
I've heard something about the proc rate of the critical being capped at 15%. If that's the case, then it's not that big a deal. If it indeed can reach the usual 30%-40% of a usual DPS spec and set, then I'd imagine that combining that with Wandering Plague would be fucking awesome.
I've been away from Death Knighting for a while, and I see that the talent trees have changed pretty drastically in the interim. So, what's the new hotness in terms of build and skill rotation for a 2-hander solo DK? Is it still deep Unholy, despite the nerfing of Unholy Blight and Desecration? Can deep Unholy still AoE in melee?
Unholy is still the hotness for grinding, if that's what you're asking. Desecration wasn't nerfed per se, you still get the same effect in Desolation, it was just split apart in to two separate talents (Desecration is now the PvP talent, Desolation is the PvE talent).
The skill rotation for Unholy hasn't really changed at all. IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> SS, dump RP.
Unholy is still an AE powerhouse because of the shorter cool down on D&D, Wandering Plague, and the enhanced Plague diseases (Ebon Plague) that still get spread around by Pestilence.
Does this build look OK, or would it make more sense to ditch Blood in favor of Frost to go for a maxed out Annihilation?
I've heard something about the proc rate of the critical being capped at 15%. If that's the case, then it's not that big a deal. If it indeed can reach the usual 30%-40% of a usual DPS spec and set, then I'd imagine that combining that with Wandering Plague would be fucking awesome.
Ah, I was not aware of a possible crit rate cap. That's probably necessary for keeping the bonus from being out of control for unholy, but it's the sort of thing they really should indicate on the tooltip.
As far as Frost DW goes, what weapons should I be obtaining out of Ulduar? I've got x1 Vulmir the Northern Tempest right now. Should I get a second of those? Or should I get the sword from Kolagarn? Or what is the optimal gearing for Frost DW.
I'm assuming a pre-Crusader's Coliseum, because at this point we will be doing the 4th boss for the first time tomorrow, so really that dungeon isn't even up for consideration yet since it isn't all unlocked.
As far as Frost DW goes, what weapons should I be obtaining out of Ulduar? I've got x1 Vulmir the Northern Tempest right now. Should I get a second of those? Or should I get the sword from Kolagarn? Or what is the optimal gearing for Frost DW.
I'm assuming a pre-Crusader's Coliseum, because at this point we will be doing the 4th boss for the first time tomorrow, so really that dungeon isn't even up for consideration yet since it isn't all unlocked.
You want Slow / Slow as your weapons.
Double Vulmir is pretty good, I dont remember the sword from kolo... isnt that one fast? (at work, cant check wowhead).
I know that hard mode freya in 10 man has a hot 1h that should tighten your pants a bit.
frylocked on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
That build is kinda strange, Are you gonna pvp or do pve? I cobbled this together. I figure Black Ice from Frost tree would be pretty important.
You have some talents in there I would never take, like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade. At least not as a two-handed user (which Unholy is). Those talents are really only useful for hybrid Frost dual-wield builds.
That build is kinda strange, Are you gonna pvp or do pve? I cobbled this together. I figure Black Ice from Frost tree would be pretty important.
You have some talents in there I would never take, like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade. At least not as a two-handed user (which Unholy is). Those talents are really only useful for hybrid Frost dual-wield builds.
That build is kinda strange, Are you gonna pvp or do pve? I cobbled this together. I figure Black Ice from Frost tree would be pretty important.
You have some talents in there I would never take, like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade. At least not as a two-handed user (which Unholy is). Those talents are really only useful for hybrid Frost dual-wield builds.
Thanks for the advice. Would Glyph of the Ghoul work as well in that build? If so, which of your major glyphs do you think it could replace?
It would work, and if I had to use it, I'd probably replace Bone Shield, but I like the utility of a six charge bone shield. Helps a ton when soloing high end elites, like G3 and G5 quests (which I do a lot).
Haste increases rate at which rage/energy/focus/DK runes regen.
How will this work with DK runes, exactly? Depending on your spec, there really aren't any free GCDs as it is anyway. Making them regen faster would just end up with you RP dumping less (thus wasting RP) or not using runes ASAP, which also feels like a waste. That or I guess you'd be pushed into unholy presence if you wanted to avoid falling behind, but that has some problems too. The whole idea seems sort of messy.
I'm glad they're trying to fix haste for DKs (and everyone, it seems), but I'm skeptical about how it's going to work out.
Haste increases rate at which rage/energy/focus/DK runes regen.
How will this work with DK runes, exactly? Depending on your spec, there really aren't any free GCDs as it is anyway. Making them regen faster would just end up with you RP dumping less (thus wasting RP) or not using runes ASAP, which also feels like a waste. That or I guess you'd be pushed into unholy presence if you wanted to avoid falling behind, but that has some problems too. The whole idea seems sort of messy.
I'm glad they're trying to fix haste for DKs (and everyone, it seems), but I'm skeptical about how it's going to work out.
Well, at the start of my rotation I have to wait a bit after using all 6, but I'd rather waste RP if that meant I could Heart Strike more.
Haste increases rate at which rage/energy/focus/DK runes regen.
How will this work with DK runes, exactly? Depending on your spec, there really aren't any free GCDs as it is anyway. Making them regen faster would just end up with you RP dumping less (thus wasting RP) or not using runes ASAP, which also feels like a waste. That or I guess you'd be pushed into unholy presence if you wanted to avoid falling behind, but that has some problems too. The whole idea seems sort of messy.
I'm glad they're trying to fix haste for DKs (and everyone, it seems), but I'm skeptical about how it's going to work out.
Well, the mechanic would probably (all speculation here) balance itself out by increasing leeway time you have before activating the full 10 second cooldown, as well as by lowering the GCD. Still, while haste + lag in extreme conditions would be bad news, they could go that route and have the mastery just work like a crazy version of improved unholy presence.
So I recently switched to a DW frost build from a 2H Blood one. Perhaps its just because I was a shitty Blood DK but I went from a Top-20 DPS to a Top-10 in our last raid, just with the welfare epics from the tournament for my weapons.
Haste increases rate at which rage/energy/focus/DK runes regen.
How will this work with DK runes, exactly? Depending on your spec, there really aren't any free GCDs as it is anyway. Making them regen faster would just end up with you RP dumping less (thus wasting RP) or not using runes ASAP, which also feels like a waste. That or I guess you'd be pushed into unholy presence if you wanted to avoid falling behind, but that has some problems too. The whole idea seems sort of messy.
I'm glad they're trying to fix haste for DKs (and everyone, it seems), but I'm skeptical about how it's going to work out.
Well, the mechanic would probably (all speculation here) balance itself out by increasing leeway time you have before activating the full 10 second cooldown, as well as by lowering the GCD. Still, while haste + lag in extreme conditions would be bad news, they could go that route and have the mastery just work like a crazy version of improved unholy presence.
Or stacking haste could make Unholy Presence increasingly viable, as it is/was with Frost builds that could use the extra GCDs. DW Frost with Unholy Presence + Improved Icy Talons + a lot of haste on gear would hit really really fast.
Haste increases rate at which rage/energy/focus/DK runes regen.
How will this work with DK runes, exactly? Depending on your spec, there really aren't any free GCDs as it is anyway. Making them regen faster would just end up with you RP dumping less (thus wasting RP) or not using runes ASAP, which also feels like a waste. That or I guess you'd be pushed into unholy presence if you wanted to avoid falling behind, but that has some problems too. The whole idea seems sort of messy.
I'm glad they're trying to fix haste for DKs (and everyone, it seems), but I'm skeptical about how it's going to work out.
Well, the mechanic would probably (all speculation here) balance itself out by increasing leeway time you have before activating the full 10 second cooldown, as well as by lowering the GCD. Still, while haste + lag in extreme conditions would be bad news, they could go that route and have the mastery just work like a crazy version of improved unholy presence.
Or stacking haste could make Unholy Presence increasingly viable, as it is/was with Frost builds that could use the extra GCDs. DW Frost with Unholy Presence + Improved Icy Talons + a lot of haste on gear would hit really really fast.
That sounds absolutely absurd.
As a side note I have a question about DW weapon choices. I know that I am looking for Slow/Slow weapons for my DW build. But its not clear what "slow" is. Is it anything above 1.5 sec, or above 2 sec? Also if I ABSOLUTELY need to use a "fast" weapon it should go in my offhand right?
So I recently switched to a DW frost build from a 2H Blood one. Perhaps its just because I was a shitty Blood DK but I went from a Top-20 DPS to a Top-10 in our last raid, just with the welfare epics from the tournament for my weapons.
I really like the spec.
Errr, top 20? The 20th place in damage should be a tank or a healer who throws out some instants once in a while.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited August 2009
Yeah, that's less of a "Top 20" situation and more of a "bottom 3"
And blood requires an extremely tight rotation of abilities where you can't afford either a miss or a dodge.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
That build is kinda strange, Are you gonna pvp or do pve? I cobbled this together. I figure Black Ice from Frost tree would be pretty important.
You have some talents in there I would never take, like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade. At least not as a two-handed user (which Unholy is). Those talents are really only useful for hybrid Frost dual-wield builds.
That build is kinda strange, Are you gonna pvp or do pve? I cobbled this together. I figure Black Ice from Frost tree would be pretty important.
You have some talents in there I would never take, like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade. At least not as a two-handed user (which Unholy is). Those talents are really only useful for hybrid Frost dual-wield builds.
Pardon my noobishness, but what rotation do you use with this build?
1) PS -> IT -> BS -> BS -> SS
2) SS -> SS -> SS (if glyph of SS doesn't refresh your diseases return to 1, if not go to 3)
3) SS -> BS -> BS -> SS (if glyph of SS doesn't refresh your diseases return to 1, if not go to 2)
Throw in DC's when you have the RP and make sure to never hit the RP cap.
Hey folks, so I've decided to start playing my DK a little bit more often now. He's 57, are there any BoA items that would be worthwhile to pick up for him? I was thinking about the Chest piece.
Elessar Elfstone on
Tobias: Or it could be your colon. I'd want to get in there and find some answers.
The shoulders and the chest are the most convenient of the BoA items because of the exp boost.
The weapon is nice if you can swing it but its not worth waiting forever to build up the emblems, there are plenty of weapons available from quests. Just be sure to hit up the 'Ring of..' quests at 65 and 75 for some decent weapons.
TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Guys, teach me how to tank. I just dinged 80 and have no idea how to. Getting gear shouldn't be too much of an issue for me, but I have no idea about tanking specs or rotations...
To make it clear, D&D gives a shitload of threat, so use it pretty much all the time. Probably the only time you don't want to use it is single target situations, and if you're unholy speced, I think you even want to use it then. Although this is knowledge based on 3.0.X era DKs, so I don't know if the various changes to the blood and frost attacks since then have made D&D better or worse in single target situations.
Really its a waste for single target situations. You want to keep a steady flow of attacks in single-two target situations. Standard Blood Rotation does this.
ExistentialSoundandFury on
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
So, what build would be recommended for Heroics? I know there's no one set tanking build for Dks, but what would be the most rounded for just jumping into a group and keeping everything stuck to ya?
Posts
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/august/gamesystems_020.jpg
Unholy is still the hotness for grinding, if that's what you're asking. Desecration wasn't nerfed per se, you still get the same effect in Desolation, it was just split apart in to two separate talents (Desecration is now the PvP talent, Desolation is the PvE talent).
The skill rotation for Unholy hasn't really changed at all. IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> SS, dump RP.
Unholy is still an AE powerhouse because of the shorter cool down on D&D, Wandering Plague, and the enhanced Plague diseases (Ebon Plague) that still get spread around by Pestilence.
Cool. Thanks!
Blood: I'd say a Health or Stamina increase and Armor Penetration.
Frost: I'd go with increased Frost Damage and increased Critical Damage Bonus.
Unholy. I'd venture a guess that diseases would be augmented across the board, as well as more Shadow Damage.
How is all of that calculated again? Like... your chance to miss, then target chance to dodge,THEN target chance to block (if applicable), THEN THEN target chance to parry?
Or am I wrong?
Does this build look OK, or would it make more sense to ditch Blood in favor of Frost to go for a maxed out Annihilation?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jbhMZZfMhILfdg0uxduIqo
I'm assuming a pre-Crusader's Coliseum, because at this point we will be doing the 4th boss for the first time tomorrow, so really that dungeon isn't even up for consideration yet since it isn't all unlocked.
You want Slow / Slow as your weapons.
Double Vulmir is pretty good, I dont remember the sword from kolo... isnt that one fast? (at work, cant check wowhead).
I know that hard mode freya in 10 man has a hot 1h that should tighten your pants a bit.
You have some talents in there I would never take, like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade. At least not as a two-handed user (which Unholy is). Those talents are really only useful for hybrid Frost dual-wield builds.
This is what I grind as, glyphs and all:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jf0zZG0xZfMhI0bdg0uxzuIqo:oMrmzM
Balanced towards two-handed and AE damage.
Thanks for the advice. Would Glyph of the Ghoul work as well in that build? If so, which of your major glyphs do you think it could replace?
It would work, and if I had to use it, I'd probably replace Bone Shield, but I like the utility of a six charge bone shield. Helps a ton when soloing high end elites, like G3 and G5 quests (which I do a lot).
I'm glad they're trying to fix haste for DKs (and everyone, it seems), but I'm skeptical about how it's going to work out.
Well, at the start of my rotation I have to wait a bit after using all 6, but I'd rather waste RP if that meant I could Heart Strike more.
I really like the spec.
Or stacking haste could make Unholy Presence increasingly viable, as it is/was with Frost builds that could use the extra GCDs. DW Frost with Unholy Presence + Improved Icy Talons + a lot of haste on gear would hit really really fast.
That sounds absolutely absurd.
As a side note I have a question about DW weapon choices. I know that I am looking for Slow/Slow weapons for my DW build. But its not clear what "slow" is. Is it anything above 1.5 sec, or above 2 sec? Also if I ABSOLUTELY need to use a "fast" weapon it should go in my offhand right?
And blood requires an extremely tight rotation of abilities where you can't afford either a miss or a dodge.
Pardon my noobishness, but what rotation do you use with this build?
2) SS -> SS -> SS (if glyph of SS doesn't refresh your diseases return to 1, if not go to 3)
3) SS -> BS -> BS -> SS (if glyph of SS doesn't refresh your diseases return to 1, if not go to 2)
Throw in DC's when you have the RP and make sure to never hit the RP cap.
edit: That's on a single target, anyway.
Forsake, Warlock of Stonemaul
The weapon is nice if you can swing it but its not worth waiting forever to build up the emblems, there are plenty of weapons available from quests. Just be sure to hit up the 'Ring of..' quests at 65 and 75 for some decent weapons.
The standard AOE opening for all three specs is D&D -> PS -> IT -> Pest, your single target rotations will depend on your spec.