[WoW] Death Knights: In our defense, Arthas was being kind of a dick.

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Posts

  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Septus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Last I checked, he can still be killed by aoe damage, and I categorically don't like long-cooldown abilities, especially if I can't carefully control where that damage is being done.

    He will follow your target and he survives AoE just fine. AFAIK he has avoidance like any other pet.

    If I press escape to stop attacking, does he stop as well?

    I'm pretty sure that non-controllable DK 'pets' will follow the generic commands of your perma pet.

    I know you can get the army of the dead to change targets based on what your ghoul attacks.

    Only if you have master of ghouls. Otherwise it's a crap shoot. Or rather, with master of ghouls you gain full control over who the army attacks. The army may follow the standard ghoul's attacks without it, but I don't have a whole lot of control over that fella in general.

    And I'm still not fond of 3 minute abilities.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Soooo, I decided to play around and level a DK for giggles with heirlooms. But I'm wondering, will I be better off using my heirloom 2h axe that has crusader on it or using quest reward weapons with runeforges? I'm not sure a runeforge is worth the amount of damage I will be losing by not using the beastly heirloom. Maybe switch to the AoA axe at 75 with a runeforge for a couple levels. Thoughts?

    Joshmvii on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Unholy presence is never better than Blood presence, is this correct? :x

    INeedNoSalt on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Unholy presence is never better than Blood presence, is this correct? :x
    You might want to run through a cave pretty fast, I guess.

    815165 on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Septus wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    Last I checked, he can still be killed by aoe damage, and I categorically don't like long-cooldown abilities, especially if I can't carefully control where that damage is being done.

    He will follow your target and he survives AoE just fine. AFAIK he has avoidance like any other pet.

    If I press escape to stop attacking, does he stop as well?

    I'm pretty sure that non-controllable DK 'pets' will follow the generic commands of your perma pet.

    I know you can get the army of the dead to change targets based on what your ghoul attacks.

    Only if you have master of ghouls. Otherwise it's a crap shoot. Or rather, with master of ghouls you gain full control over who the army attacks. The army may follow the standard ghoul's attacks without it, but I don't have a whole lot of control over that fella in general.

    And I'm still not fond of 3 minute abilities.

    /shrug

    Your loss, he's a huge DPS boost.

    shryke on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    There's nothing to lose. When I go unholy after the patch I will certainly get and use the gargoyle. I just said that I wasn't a fan, and I long for the talent to be changed.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    dougly wrote: »
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us&server=Zul%27jin&name=G%F6reshade

    This is what I have so far. My average seems to sit somewhere between 4.2 and 5.1k depending on the fight. Does this sound right?

    That sounds a bit low but it really does depend on the fight. Your hit is ridiculously high but your expertise is too low. It might be better once you work out a better stat balance.

    That's the hard part. I'm not gemming for hit in any conceivable way. Would it be worth to swap all those +20 str gems for Expertise or will the loss of all that attack power outweigh the increased Expertise?

    All that hit just naturally came on as a result of my gear. I guess it helps my white hits, but... Well. Nothing I can do about it aside from getting better gear, and that's only found in TOCR 25 and some cases in TOCR 10.

    OtakuD00D on
    makosig.jpg
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Septus wrote: »
    There's nothing to lose. When I go unholy after the patch I will certainly get and use the gargoyle. I just said that I wasn't a fan, and I long for the talent to be changed.
    How many DPS specs don't have 3 minute cooldowns anymore?

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • LasbrookLasbrook It takes a lot to make a stew When it comes to me and youRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    815165 wrote: »
    Unholy presence is never better than Blood presence, is this correct? :x
    You might want to run through a cave pretty fast, I guess.

    Actually it's currently viable for Unholy DPS.
    Imp Unholy Presence 2H
    14/0/57 - If you do not yet have 4p t9, you'll want to shift two points in Dark Conviction to Bladed Armor. Played in Unholy Presence, this build works the same way as its brethren. If your haste falls below a certain threshold (the exact number has yet to be identified, but it's somewhere in the 200-300 range), this spec pulls ahead of Blood Presence due to the GCD reduction - once you surpass that specific haste, as one does easily in CC gear, it becomes inferior and not worth speccing. The downside to using UP, even when you are undergeared and its worth the single target bump, is the AoE loss; yes, you can always just switch to Blood Presence for AoE fights, however what about fights where you AoE about half the time and single target the other half (which many AoE fights are actually like)? Switching presences in combat is going to lose you dps, but if you don't switch you are either stuck in blood (losing half the reason to be this spec) or stuck in unholy (losing a ton of AoE damage for little gain). Regardless, some find it worth the change. Your auto-attack will be the highest percent of your total damage, followed by your Ghoul and then your Death Coil. Death Coil plus it's subsequent UB will be your hardest hitting individual ability, followed closely by Scourge Strike.

    Though that looks like it's gonna change back to blood spec reigning supreme in 3.3 so you probably don't want to bother speccing into it at this point.

    Lasbrook on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I think there are also arguments that can be made for unholy presence over blood in PvP, but that's probably not what Salt is concerned with.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Just got enough Triumph Emblems together for my Tanking Lvl232 Tanking Pants.

    Should I Gem 2x +30 Stam?
    Or should I try and boost my Expertise with 30 Stam + 10 Expertise/15 Stam gems and get the +9Stam slot bonus?

    shryke on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I really need to get some program that identifies gear upgrades by an AP equivalent and lists what is a badge upgrade or not and compare the degree of the upgrade to the number of badges.

    I'm kind of taking a crapshoot when there's a thousand things that are upgrades for me.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    shryke wrote: »
    Just got enough Triumph Emblems together for my Tanking Lvl232 Tanking Pants.

    Should I Gem 2x +30 Stam?
    Or should I try and boost my Expertise with 30 Stam + 10 Expertise/15 Stam gems and get the +9Stam slot bonus?

    generally in situations like that I have a look at the overall benefit.

    9+15 is 24, so you are sacrificing 6 stam for 10 expertise rating.

    If you're 10 expertise rating away from soft cap, I'd go for it, otherwise I'd stick with the 2x 30 stam.

    Dhalphir on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Just got enough Triumph Emblems together for my Tanking Lvl232 Tanking Pants.

    Should I Gem 2x +30 Stam?
    Or should I try and boost my Expertise with 30 Stam + 10 Expertise/15 Stam gems and get the +9Stam slot bonus?

    generally in situations like that I have a look at the overall benefit.

    9+15 is 24, so you are sacrificing 6 stam for 10 expertise rating.

    If you're 10 expertise rating away from soft cap, I'd go for it, otherwise I'd stick with the 2x 30 stam.

    Haha, I just realized with the gear switching and such recently (I just upgraded a ton of pieces) I need the Red Gem to activate my Meta, so I guess it's something purple going in there.

    shryke on
  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    815165 wrote: »
    Unholy presence is never better than Blood presence, is this correct? :x
    You might want to run through a cave pretty fast, I guess.

    There are buildings you can use it to move faster in as well.

    Seg on
  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Both Unholy and Frost tend to have specs that do well with Unholy Presence, though you really need a specific build for it. In either case it's for builds designed to generate a lot of extra RP for Frost Strikes/Death Coils. UP pulls ahead when the shortened GCD gives you time for enough extra special attacks to pass the 15% boost in damage from Blood. In Blood Presence, the extra RP would be wasted.

    Granted, as was said, this is kinda screwed in 3.3, as the +10RP Icy Touch glyph was a big part of these specs.

    Fearghaill on
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Ok so I'm DW Unholy (at least until 3.3) as part of trying out all of the DPS specs.

    I know Unholy carries alot of aoe damage..my question is, when do I abandon single target types of rotations and go for DnD, Pest, etc? 3+ mobs? 2 mobs?

    Bigity on
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  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Seg wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    Unholy presence is never better than Blood presence, is this correct? :x
    You might want to run through a cave pretty fast, I guess.

    There are buildings you can use it to move faster in as well.

    Apparently for some gear levels certain builds with Imp Unholy presence are better, such as DW unholy with lowish levels of haste (according to EJ, if you have between 200-300 haste, Imp UH pres is better than blood).

    Bigity on
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  • douglydougly Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Bigity wrote: »
    Ok so I'm DW Unholy (at least until 3.3) as part of trying out all of the DPS specs.

    I know Unholy carries alot of aoe damage..my question is, when do I abandon single target types of rotations and go for DnD, Pest, etc? 3+ mobs? 2 mobs?

    If there's an extra target, you might as well hit pestilence and let it tick.

    I only use DnD on Onyxia, normal faction champs and heroic Anub.

    dougly on
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  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited October 2009
    Bigity wrote: »
    Ok so I'm DW Unholy (at least until 3.3) as part of trying out all of the DPS specs.

    I know Unholy carries alot of aoe damage..my question is, when do I abandon single target types of rotations and go for DnD, Pest, etc? 3+ mobs? 2 mobs?

    Theres really no situation where it makes more sense to use DnD over IT, PS, and Pest. Espeically if you have wandering plague and the T9 4-Piece.

    DharmaBum on
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm not talking about over, no.

    But on a boss I wouldn't use DnD at all, I'd SS/BS or SS/BB, after keeping up all my diseases (3 for unholy).

    But with 3+ mobs, wouldn't DnD (after IT/PS/Pest) on the group do more DPS overall than strikes? Other than a BS every 20 seconds for Desolation?

    Bigity on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Bigity wrote: »
    I'm not talking about over, no.

    But on a boss I wouldn't use DnD at all, I'd SS/BS or SS/BB, after keeping up all my diseases (3 for unholy).

    But with 3+ mobs, wouldn't DnD (after IT/PS/Pest) on the group do more DPS overall than strikes? Other than a BS every 20 seconds for Desolation?

    If you're talking about heroics it's probably when you reach 4+ mobs that you'd want to start AoEing, though depending on the dps the rest of your group is doing you may get better mileage out of just blood boiling after pestilence.

    Joshmvii on
  • douglydougly Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Bigity wrote: »
    I'm not talking about over, no.

    But on a boss I wouldn't use DnD at all, I'd SS/BS or SS/BB, after keeping up all my diseases (3 for unholy).

    But with 3+ mobs, wouldn't DnD (after IT/PS/Pest) on the group do more DPS overall than strikes? Other than a BS every 20 seconds for Desolation?

    Absolutely.

    Heroic Anub is a great example. Most DKs top damaging ability is Death and Decay. The rotation uses three runes to spread diseases and three runes for DnD.

    dougly on
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  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Right, thanks.

    Bigity on
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  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    So, anyone versed enough on the expertise issue?
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us&server=Zul%27jin&name=G%F6reshade

    I need to know if it's worth dropping a few more of my +20 strength gems in favor of Expertise ones.

    OtakuD00D on
    makosig.jpg
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I thought strength was rated higher than expertise, even before hitting the 'cap'.

    Bigity on
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  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    That can vary depending in the build/rotation. Some rotations are very very closely limited by the global cooldown, and having an ability dodged would screw them up/have diseases fall off/etc. Others have a bit more breathing room and can afford the occasional lost GCD. The GCD-starved ones prioritize Hit/Expertise higher.

    Fearghaill on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    It is.

    AFAIK there's really no reason to gem for anything but Strength (other then to get your Meta obviously) or Hit (if your under the cap).

    You pick up your Crit/Exp/etc from the gear itself and enchants and just gem straight for Strength.

    shryke on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I would think that frost is really the only spec that would value expertise highly enough to maybe consider dropping strength.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • douglydougly Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I can't stand not being expertise or hit capped. I had a few expertise gems back when I was gear hungry.

    Although it may not number crunch as optimal, it is reliable.

    dougly on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    dougly wrote: »
    I can't stand not being expertise or hit capped. I had a few expertise gems back when I was gear hungry.

    Although it may not number crunch as optimal, it is reliable.
    This is my take as well. I'll take a hit of 40 strength or whatever and some minor loss to theoretical DPS for the retained sanity of not having my strikes be dodged.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Septus wrote: »
    I would think that frost is really the only spec that would value expertise highly enough to maybe consider dropping strength.

    Exactly, that's why I figured I'd ask. Dual wielding really fudges things around when it comes to that. It might be worth it in this case, but I'm not 100% sure. If I was using a 2h, then it'd be no contest.

    Edit: Awesome! I just got Vengeance of the Forssaken. I now sit at 27/27, 6.75%. Is this enough or do I need a little more? Now the question is, should I pair it up with the Pyrite Infuser or Mjolnir Runestone, both of which I have.

    As frost DW, I could somewhat benefit from the occasional ArP boost for Obliterate. However, 1234 attack power is also nice.

    OtakuD00D on
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  • VicktorVicktor Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Both Unholy and Frost tend to have specs that do well with Unholy Presence, though you really need a specific build for it. In either case it's for builds designed to generate a lot of extra RP for Frost Strikes/Death Coils. UP pulls ahead when the shortened GCD gives you time for enough extra special attacks to pass the 15% boost in damage from Blood. In Blood Presence, the extra RP would be wasted.

    Granted, as was said, this is kinda screwed in 3.3, as the +10RP Icy Touch glyph was a big part of these specs.
    I use unholy presence quite a bit as DW frost. It really depends on the fight and can give you a good amount of flexibility in your rotation.

    I've tested it with other DW frost DKs and we tradeoff for top damage.

    The questions to ask yourself are: Can you use those extra global CDs you get (Frost Strikes)? Is it a movement oriented fight? Is it a fight where you need to single target fast dying adds (think VoA)?


    If you can generate enough runic power (have the IT glyph and are speced into the higher RP generating talents as a minimum, but you need more) from using AMS, then you get quite a few extra frost strikes to make use of and can use your Rime procs without ever having to delay your normal rotation. And depending on your talent setup you can use nearly all of your KM procs on frost strikes/Oblits/Rime procs without ever having to break your rotation.

    The movement speed can be a noticeable dps increase as well (not to mention survivability).

    It's great for trash in heroics, usually you only have to put diseases up once anyway.


    What I'm not sure about is ditching all/most of my RP increasing talents and glyphs and swapping them out for alternatives and operating in BP... that's my plan come 3.3 anyway.

    Vicktor on
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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I am so looking forward to that very scenario with unholy in 3.3. It will be nice to have 10 second periods where my rune abilities are just 3 scourge strikes, it will afford me some extra awareness of what's going on in the fight.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • projectmayhemprojectmayhem Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    So this is my character

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sargeras&n=Kisen

    I really feel like I should be doing more dps than I currently am. Right now I sit between 4k-5k depending on the fight. I know that is a rather large margin, but I feel like with my gear I should be sitting above 5k regularly.

    it, ps, hs hs, ds
    it ps, hs, hs, hs, hs, ds

    death coil rune dump, using drw/hysteria when they are up.

    projectmayhem on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    1) You've got stam gems and +10 Stat gems and +AP Gems. Get rid of them. Gem 2 purples for the meta and that's it. Everything else should be Red (Str or Armor Pen for Blood Spec I believe)

    2) Your also way over the hit cap for some reason. See if you can drop some hit for more Str/ArP/etc

    3) Upgrade that sigil

    4) Invest in some Epic Gems

    5) Try and get the Runed Orb DPS Boots crafted.

    That's all I can think of.

    shryke on
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    So this is my character

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sargeras&n=Kisen

    I really feel like I should be doing more dps than I currently am. Right now I sit between 4k-5k depending on the fight. I know that is a rather large margin, but I feel like with my gear I should be sitting above 5k regularly.

    it, ps, hs hs, ds
    it ps, hs, hs, hs, hs, ds

    death coil rune dump, using drw/hysteria when they are up.


    I think you are refreshing diseases too often, you should only normally do that once per rotation.

    IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-Dumps
    DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-Dumps

    Then repeat. Of course you gotta squeeze in your cooldowns and whatnot when it's best to use them.

    Bigity on
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  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    So, RAWR tells me I can put on the Leggings of Relentless Onslaught over Staggering Legplates and despite that I would lose 96 hit rating (80 if I gem the leggings with hit, or a little less with an epic hit gem), it would still be a DPS upgrade. Sitting at 322 hit rating with my current gear, I got a belt from conquest emblems last night and it put me over the cap by a bit.

    Still doesn't seem right.

    Bigity on
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  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Isn't the cap for two-handers like 270 or so? Which means you are way over the cap at the moment.

    shadowane on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    263 is the cap.

    forty on
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