My opinion is if you can't afford this you don't need to get a standalone receiver.
Edit: I'm half tempted to rename this a home-theater thread because most of the speaker/receiver threads don't make it past page 3 anyways. If I do that I'm still not including front-projectors cause fuck if that doesn't introduce a bunch of extra shit.
I seriously think this thread would benefit from a protracted discussion of CIH setups, particularly which anamorphic lenses are best with respect to chromatic aberration and how to make cheap high contrast screens.
J/K :P
Dashui: That Sony looks like a fine budget HT receiver. So long as it has all the video switching, A/V inputs, video scaling, and audio decoding capability you want. Onkyos tend to pack a lot of features in at their price point, a nice pick if you could save up a few hundred more bucks. Are you planning to have a record player in this setup? If so you'll need a phono stage or pre-amp to do RIAA equalization. As far as audio quality goes it's probably fine for movies, but if you're a real audiophile w/r/to music you'll have to listen yourself in-store.
My opinion is if you can't afford this you don't need to get a standalone receiver.
Edit: I'm half tempted to rename this a home-theater thread because most of the speaker/receiver threads don't make it past page 3 anyways. If I do that I'm still not including front-projectors cause fuck if that doesn't introduce a bunch of extra shit.
Dashui: That Sony looks like a fine budget HT receiver. So long as it has all the video switching, A/V inputs, video scaling, and audio decoding capability you want. Onkyos tend to pack a lot of features in at their price point, a nice pick if you could save up a few hundred more bucks. Are you planning to have a record player in this setup? If so you'll need a phono stage or pre-amp to do RIAA equalization. As far as audio quality goes it's probably fine for movies, but if you're a real audiophile w/r/to music you'll have to listen yourself in-store.
I just want to get an affordable receiver to listen to uncompressed and quality audio with Blu-ray movies and Playstation 3 games. And I want an affordable subwoofer (I have none) to add that extra oomph.
I'll be honest and say I am impressed with that Onkyo, and I would buy it, but it seems a bit excessive. I don't know if I feel comfortable dropping 500 dollars for a receiver if the 285 dollar Sony will excel at what I want.
I am probably going to buy an LED 3D television in the near future, too, and the Sony won't allow me to do 3D audio and video on a single HDMI cable. That's disappointing, but apparently I can just run a digital optical cable from the receiver to the television and that will work? Will the audio quality noticeably lessen with that method or should it be fine?
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
but apparently I can just run a digital optical cable from the receiver to the television
are incompatible. Additionally, I can't promise that your TV will send even compressed surround sound over the optical as opposed to just ripping out the two front channels and sending ONLY THOSE uncompressed. If you're interested in 3D, while chasm may be right on the actual TV purchase, I definitely wouldn't be buying a receiver that can't support it down the road.
but apparently I can just run a digital optical cable from the receiver to the television
are incompatible. Additionally, I can't promise that your TV will send even compressed surround sound over the optical as opposed to just ripping out the two front channels and sending ONLY THOSE uncompressed. If you're interested in 3D, while chasm may be right on the actual TV purchase, I definitely wouldn't be buying a receiver that can't support it down the road.
I'm not 100% on the 3D bandwagon yet. I was only asking if the audio quality would be noticeably less with using an digital optical cable. I'm not an audiophile, so I don't know these things. Since the Sony doesn't support 3D, that's the method I'd have to use instead of a single HDMI cable.
I intend to run a single HDMI cable for both audio and video to the television for regular 2D movies and games, which the Sony supports.
I'm just having a hard time trying to justify spending 500 dollars on a receiver, probably because I'm not a big audiophile. I'm just getting my feet wet in the subject. Not to mention there are other things I'd like to buy.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
I am probably going to buy an LED 3D television in the near future, too, and the Sony won't allow me to do 3D audio and video on a single HDMI cable. That's disappointing, but apparently I can just run a digital optical cable from the receiver to the television and that will work? Will the audio quality noticeably lessen with that method or should it be fine?
Let me clarify: You'll run HDMI from PS3 to TV for video, and then optical from PS3 to Receiver for audio, correct? If that's the case you'll get either uncompressed 2.1 via PCM, or AC3/DTS via bitstream, or some kind of matrixed audio. You will not get uncompressed multichannel sound (5.1/6.1/7.1 etc.) over an optical link, there is not sufficient bandwidth. To get Uncompressed multichannel you need an HDMI link between PS3 and receiver to carry audio. I don't know much about 3D so I don't know the details regarding trying to convey both A/V over HDMI to receiver then to TV.
Is there a difference between AC3/DTS and the lossless codecs? Ears and gear man. I think so, but my judgement is hardly objective as I've not conducted blind tests. That said even AC3/DTS is going to give you a surround sound HT experience, this was the norm for HT before lossless codecs were widely available in the retail channel and it still sounds great.
If you're running a stereo or 2.1 system then yeah, you can do HDMI for video and can get lossless audio over optical as it has sufficient bandwidth for that.
I'm a little rusty on this, but I think that's all correct.
Edit: Honestly if 3D is your bag you're going to want to wait as long as you can on the receiver end as so much seems only quasi-standardized. If you really need to feed your HT experience jones then you might just want to go for the cheapest 5.1 solution that'll work for you and save your bucks for the receiver that'll be your 3D A/V brains.
I am probably going to buy an LED 3D television in the near future, too, and the Sony won't allow me to do 3D audio and video on a single HDMI cable. That's disappointing, but apparently I can just run a digital optical cable from the receiver to the television and that will work? Will the audio quality noticeably lessen with that method or should it be fine?
Let me clarify: You'll run HDMI from PS3 to TV for video, and then optical from PS3 to Receiver for audio, correct? If that's the case you'll get either uncompressed 2.1 via PCM, or AC3/DTS via bitstream, or some kind of matrixed audio. You will not get uncompressed multichannel sound (5.1/6.1/7.1 etc.) over an optical link, there is not sufficient bandwidth. To get Uncompressed multichannel you need an HDMI link between PS3 and receiver to carry audio. I don't know much about 3D so I don't know the details regarding trying to convey both A/V over HDMI to receiver then to TV.
Is there a difference between AC3/DTS and the lossless codecs? Ears and gear man. I think so, but my judgement is hardly objective as I've not conducted blind tests. That said even AC3/DTS is going to give you a surround sound HT experience, this was the norm for HT before lossless codecs were widely available in the retail channel and it still sounds great.
If you're running a stereo or 2.1 system then yeah, you can do HDMI for video and can get lossless audio over optical as it has sufficient bandwidth for that.
I'm a little rusty on this, but I think that's all correct.
Edit: Honestly if 3D is your bag you're going to want to wait as long as you can on the receiver end as so much seems only quasi-standardized. If you really need to feed your HT experience jones then you might just want to go for the cheapest 5.1 solution that'll work for you and save your bucks for the receiver that'll be your 3D A/V brains.
I'd only be doing the optical route for 3D content if I ever bought a 3D television. Everything else will just run on a single HDMI cable, as I just wrote. But you did give me some extra information I needed!
I don't have a 5.1 or higher setup connected. I have the speakers for a 5.1 setup, but I don't really have the room. I just have my left, right, and center speakers connected. What you're telling me is that I can watch 3D movies while running an optical cable to the non-3D receiver and still get uncompressed audio? It would just be 2.1? Because that's perfectly fine with me!
Like I said, I'm not really 100% on the 3D bandwagon yet, nor am I a big audiophile. I just want some extra equipment to enhance the experience a little bit, as I have no subwoofer and a receiver that's probably over 15 years old.
In any case, thanks for all the information you guys have been giving me.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
What you're telling me is that I can watch 3D movies while running an optical cable to the non-3D receiver and still get uncompressed audio? It would just be 2.1? Because that's perfectly fine with me!
I'm assuming there. Such is the case with Blu-Ray movies, but I don't have a 3D setup so I don't know firsthand if it would work, I think it should since it's still Blu-Ray.
I ran your setup (PS3 with HDMI video, Optical audio) with Blu-Rays for a year or more listening to uncompressed 2.1.
Now, I was only comparing that 500 dollar Onkyo to the 285 dollar Sony. I never did ask about other receivers, ones potentially better than the Sony for around the same price point.
I'm mainly looking for things like Linear PCM, upconverts/upscales component/analog content via HDMI, audio return channel, and auto-calibration, although that last one is merely a plus and not a necessity. Since I'm not a big audiophile, that feature seemed nice. If it supports HDMI version 1.4 for 3D content for around my budget of 300-350, then that's a plus, too. With that I could potentially hook up my two rear speakers if I ever find the room.
Do you guys have any recommendations with those features and budget in mind?
I was looking at the Onkyo TX-SR508 which has HDMI 1.4, an overlaid on-screen display (the Sony doesn't have this, but that's not a big deal to me), as well as the Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Volume features. It's 80 watts per channel instead of the Sony's 110, though. I don't know if that makes a big difference or not. I'm also not sure if the Onkyo upconverts/upscales component/analog content via HDMI, but I do know it doesn't upconvert/upscale to 1080p. My only non-HD device is a Wii, however. I haven't been able to see if it has an auto-calibration feature, either.
Lots of things covered while I was ignoring this thread. I like lists so here we go:
1. $500 is not a lot for a receiver. Even if you're not an audiophile. I understand your budget, and if that's the constraint than the $500 receiver isn't for you, but it's only been in the last two years or so that these $300 receivers or less have offered anything in the way of features whatsoever. That's why I had to look twice before I noticed that the Sony you linked does analog upconvert to HDMI.
2. While YMMV, I see a lot more people saying they notice the difference between HD codecs and non-HD codecs for audio. It's definitely not a speaker cable/receiver quality debate...a ton of people hear that difference.
3. The TX-SR508 will not upscale to HDMI through analog. However, there's an important point to notice here. The Sony does have 110 watts, but it also has 1% THD (total harmonic distortion) at 1KHz. The Onkyo only has 80 watts but pulls down a .08-.1% THD. In other words, particularly as the volume goes up, I suspect that Sony is going to struggle, at least compared to the Onkyo.
It's definitely up to you on how important some of these extra features are in the Onkyo. I tend to buy stuff for the longterm and thus usually buy up...this TX-SR606 I have was actually a bit of a lower-end compromise for me. For me, with the 3D horizon being unclear, I would not want to buy a receiver that required me to use two cables from the PS3 and ruled out high-def surround sound.
I wouldn't worry too much about wattage ratings, manufacturer wattage ratings are notoriously inaccurate (Edit: gamed I should say). Like my old Yamaha was rated at 75 wpc, but in actuality it only put out like 38 wpc max. Some dude had tested a bunch of units and put out their actual max wpc, but unfortunately he stopped doing it awhile ago.
Sorry I cannot give you any particular receiver recs, I only occasionally go in to stores to check them out and other then that it's just a feature/spec grid to me. I have a particular fondness for Marantz, but they may be a bit pricey for you. Onkyo seems to do the best about packing the most features into a given price point (particularly in the midrange 500-1000), but Sony/Yamaha often put out something a bit cheaper that has sufficient features for the mainstream consumer.
You're probably right in that the wattage won't matter too much to me. I just found out my current receiver, the Denon AVR-1200, is only 70 watts per channel. So the Onkyo would actually be a step up. :P
Anything would be a step up, more than likely.
I'm leaning toward that Onkyo TX-SR508 now over the Sony. Thanks for all the information. You've helped me a lot. In any case, I still have two weeks to decide. I'm going to order my Yamaha YST-SW315 subwoofer by Monday and then two weeks later I can order the receiver, just in time for Red Dead Redemption.
I've never had a subwoofer hooked up to my television before, so this should be an awesome treat along with the uncompressed audio.
I agree with everything he says except I truly believe that Avatar benefited from the technology. I think movies like Avatar that truly take advantage of the tech will be extremely few and far between. I bet that long gaming sessions on it will be too hard on the eyes, but I'm sure people on this forum will confirm/deny that.
Anyone have any suggestions on HDTVs for a $300 or under range that would work well with a PS3 using HDMI for hookup? It would basically just be for myself and I wouldn't be sitting terribly far away from it, though I do think 19" is just a bit too small. Though if there's a 19" that's considered a great value I'd probably consider it.
Anyone have any suggestions on HDTVs for a $300 or under range that would work well with a PS3 using HDMI for hookup? It would basically just be for myself and I wouldn't be sitting terribly far away from it, though I do think 19" is just a bit too small. Though if there's a 19" that's considered a great value I'd probably consider it.
I did a quick search for HDTVs on Amazon with a maximum price of 300. You can definitely get something bigger than 19 inches. A lot of the ones I saw more-or-less double as computer monitors and televisions, though. The ones that are marketed as simply televisions, at your price range, seem to mostly hover around a 720p resolution and 19" to 22". There are a number of those by good brands such as Samsung and LG, but I'll just list some of the 1080p ones I saw.
This ViewSonic is 24", 1080p, and is marketed as an HDTV for 248.21 USD.
I've had experiences with ViewSonic monitors but not their recent models and I don't know how well they make televisions. It has 70 user reviews, though, and stands at four stars.
I also found a 23" 1080p Vizio for 298.00 USD and 26" 1080p Viore for 299.99 USD, but I don't know much about those brands. They both have about 40 user reviews and a 3.5/5 rating, but the reviews in general seem to be mixed.
If you don't mind something that's labeled as an LCD monitor (you can still connect your PS3), HP makes some great panels.
Those are actually both great suggestions. I actually didn't think to search computer monitors because part of my reasoning for getting a new TV was the fact that my PS3 just didn't look good on my monitor, however I wasn't really taking into account that some monitors have HDMI inputs now, which would probably solve the problem.
The monitor seems like a slightly better deal and I like HP, though at the same time I'm still interested in using it as a TV with my cable hookup, so I'll probably go with the first one. Thanks for the advice.
The Yamaha is a 250w subwoofer with 270w dynamic power output. Its feature list it boasts Advanced YST and QD-Bass (Quatre Dispersion Bass) technology.
"Advanced Yamaha Active Servo Technology (Advanced YST) is a unique system in which the speaker and amplifier work together to cancel out impedance so the speaker unit has a perfectly linear motion. Advanced YST helps to ensure the highest levels of sound pressure and overall performance."
"QD-Bass (Quatre Dispersion Bass) technology uses down-firing drivers with square, pyramid-shaped reflective plates to radiate the sound efficiently in four horizontal directions. The reflective plates negate any effects caused by the floor surface and reduce resonance between sound waves reflected from the floor and the unit."
I also like the design of it, with the controls on the front of the subwoofer. It also has a switch for movies and music.
The Polk, on the other hand, is a 300w subwoofer with an insane 460w dynamic power output. On its feature list it talks about Slot Load Venting. "Slot Load Venting improves bass response. The wide, long Slot Load Vent dramatically lessens turbulence, noise and distortion, pouring out a tidal wave of precise, thunderous bass."
Now I don't know what any of this really means for me. I haven't had much experience with television subwoofers. I have heard good things about Polk, though. Both subwoofers have high reviews, although the Polk has more user reviews (upward of three times as many). I'm not in a big room, and I don't want to shatter glass and break walls, but I do want clean and precise sounding bass free of distortion on all volume levels and one that still gives me plenty of rumble to get me immersed in my games or movies.
Which one would you guys recommend? They both seem fantastic, and are both around the same price, so I'm having trouble choosing.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
Unfortunately all I can give you is an ignorant brand preference for Yamaha. The only research I've done on subs is at a much higher price point, and once I discovered how incredibly responsive my Paradigms are, the idea of putting a sub in my basement with those speakers being so powerful is pretty ridiculous. So I kind of lost touch on the subject.
To me the YST, QD-Band, and venting stuff sounds like your typical marketspeak.
Downward firing typically means more placement options (unless you live above somebody) as side-firing means it's going to reflect off the wall its placed next to. That said, my sub is side-firing and I don't have problems (I don't share walls with anyone though) and if I were to get some window-rattling I could move it away from the wall a few more inches if I didn't want to turn it down.
It's hard to compare across brands, but typically a larger cone means more air displacement. So you won't have to turn up the gain on the 12" as much as the 10" to get the same amount of sound. The gain on my sub is at 2 and never goes higher. Either way you go placement is going to determine whether there's rattling and whether you can localize the position of the sub.
From specs I think either would work fine. Polk speakers (IMO) are a bit boomier then Yamaha, but not sure how much of that carries over to subs since they operate at the low end anyways. I do have the feeling the Polk is going to be more about volume and the Yamaha more controlled, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to advertising.
Those are actually both great suggestions. I actually didn't think to search computer monitors because part of my reasoning for getting a new TV was the fact that my PS3 just didn't look good on my monitor, however I wasn't really taking into account that some monitors have HDMI inputs now, which would probably solve the problem.
The monitor seems like a slightly better deal and I like HP, though at the same time I'm still interested in using it as a TV with my cable hookup, so I'll probably go with the first one. Thanks for the advice.
Now a days, a TV is a monitor with a tuner built in.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
Thanks for the opinions on the subwoofers. I chose to buy the Yamaha. I also bought two THX-certified Monster cables - a Y adapter and subwoofer interconnect cable (14 and 7 dollars respectively, so not that expensive :P). I'll get them by Wednesday, and I'm very much looking forward to it. This is my first television subwoofer!
Can receivers bottleneck a subwoofer, though? My Denon AVR-1200 is very old. In two weeks I can buy the Onkyo TX-SR508, which has those lovely Audyssey features, but until then I'm stuck with the Denon. I know it'll still sound great regardless, but I'm just curious.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
Don't think so. Assuming it's a sub pre-out the only thing the receiver might do is determine the cut-off of the signal it sends to the sub (e.g. somewhere between 80 and 200 Hz probably). It may not even do that, sending the full signal to the sub and relying on the sub's cut-off.
When I'm looking at Plasma TVs, how can I tell what year's model it is? (Is there a series number I should look out for?)
Basically, I've got a 12x11 foot room that I may want to get a television (and 360) for. It's a 3rd (top) floor condo with the traditional sliding glass patio doors perpendicular to the TV wall (and closer to that side than the couch side). It looks like I could easily get away with only 720p, so there's some savings there... and I am extremely tempted by the savings with going to Plasma from LCD.
When I'm looking at Plasma TVs, how can I tell what year's model it is? (Is there a series number I should look out for?)
Basically, I've got a 12x11 foot room that I may want to get a television (and 360) for. It's a 3rd (top) floor condo with the traditional sliding glass patio doors perpendicular to the TV wall (and closer to that side than the couch side). It looks like I could easily get away with only 720p, so there's some savings there... and I am extremely tempted by the savings with going to Plasma from LCD.
It sounds like that room is gonna be really bright...you sure you want a plasma? Anyways, to answer your question:
Panasonic Plasmas: (## = size, X = letter, you'll have to look up to see the range in quality, & is mostly irrelevant)
TC-P##X2& - 2010
TC-P##X1& - 2009
I'm not getting into their 2008 line. It has an annoying numbering scheme.
I especially like the anti reflection requirement, which more or less screams "STOP USING GLOSSY PANELS IN YOUR TV'S, IDIOTS!" There's also the Image Retention thing, so I'm sure alot of the 2009 Panny's with the black issue also exhibiting unusual IR no longer qualify. Then there's the black level thin, and the floating black thing in the 2010's for Panny. It makes me wonder how they managed certification this time..
When I'm looking at Plasma TVs, how can I tell what year's model it is? (Is there a series number I should look out for?)
Basically, I've got a 12x11 foot room that I may want to get a television (and 360) for. It's a 3rd (top) floor condo with the traditional sliding glass patio doors perpendicular to the TV wall (and closer to that side than the couch side). It looks like I could easily get away with only 720p, so there's some savings there... and I am extremely tempted by the savings with going to Plasma from LCD.
It sounds like that room is gonna be really bright...you sure you want a plasma? Anyways, to answer your question:
Panasonic Plasmas: (## = size, X = letter, you'll have to look up to see the range in quality, & is mostly irrelevant)
TC-P##X2& - 2010
TC-P##X1& - 2009
I'm not getting into their 2008 line. It has an annoying numbering scheme.
I realise the room is probably going to be quite bright, but Plasmas are so much less expensive... Essentially, this will just be used for xbox 360 gaming. Is the bright room going to be a big deal?
[Edit]
What's a Panasonic with the number: TCP50C2 ?
[Edit2]
What's the opinion on the Samsung PN50B430 ? How worrisome is the image retention issue for the 2009 sets?
When I'm looking at Plasma TVs, how can I tell what year's model it is? (Is there a series number I should look out for?)
Basically, I've got a 12x11 foot room that I may want to get a television (and 360) for. It's a 3rd (top) floor condo with the traditional sliding glass patio doors perpendicular to the TV wall (and closer to that side than the couch side). It looks like I could easily get away with only 720p, so there's some savings there... and I am extremely tempted by the savings with going to Plasma from LCD.
It sounds like that room is gonna be really bright...you sure you want a plasma? Anyways, to answer your question:
Panasonic Plasmas: (## = size, X = letter, you'll have to look up to see the range in quality, & is mostly irrelevant)
TC-P##X2& - 2010
TC-P##X1& - 2009
I'm not getting into their 2008 line. It has an annoying numbering scheme.
I realise the room is probably going to be quite bright, but Plasmas are so much less expensive... Essentially, this will just be used for xbox 360 gaming. Is the bright room going to be a big deal?
[Edit]
What's a Panasonic with the number: TCP50C2 ?
[Edit2]
What's the opinion on the Samsung PN50B430 ? How worrisome is the image retention issue for the 2009 sets?
I was always worried about burn-in when it came to plasmas. Have you tried looking at LED DLPs, too? They're also fairly inexpensive.
When I was looking for my TV a few years ago, I ended up going with one of those. They typically have better colors than LCD panels, and for the size, resolution, and general feature list (the Samsung I bought supports 3D), it had the most competitive price.
They're bulky, however. Not hard to carry with two people, but probably a lot harder to transport in a vehicle than a really thin panel. It's why my next panel will probably be an LED one. I'm definitely going with Samsung again, though.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
I realise the room is probably going to be quite bright, but Plasmas are so much less expensive... Essentially, this will just be used for xbox 360 gaming. Is the bright room going to be a big deal?
To some it is. Mine's in a basement so I'm not the best to ask. At the end of the day, no plasma can pump out as much light as an LCD (and it's not good for the plasma to jack up brightness way high).
[Edit]
What's a Panasonic with the number: TCP50C2 ?
A very low end Panasonic.
[Edit2]
What's the opinion on the Samsung PN50B430 ? How worrisome is the image retention issue for the 2009 sets?
I have seen enough bitching about Samsung plasmas both here and on AVSForum that unless you're buying one of their top end series, probably best not to bother. Even on the top ends, you're still probably better off with the Panasonic. I'd stay away from that 4-series.
You can head to the site to get the details, but less picture quality, limited to 720p, less extra features as compared to the higher models (though a lot of those I certainly never use). I can definitely see a difference in that display when compared to its big brother the G series.
Here's the Panasonic website that has all their 2010 models. If cost is your primary concern you're gonna want the lowest model you're content with, the higher end models certainly have worthwhile features. If you're asking whether you can see the difference or if it's worth it, well you'll need to see for yourself. For example, my dad says he doesn't see any improvement with HD (personally, I think he's lying or fucking with me).
At 50" and a new set I'd want 1080p, but that's me.
The Onkyo TX-SR508 receiver I'll have by the 18th or 19th has an auto-calibration feature. It has a featured called Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which maintains "a consistent bass response, tonal balance, and surround-sound effect at different volume levels, so you can enjoy the natural dynamics of your content regardless of the volume." Do auto-calibration features generally calibrate your subwoofer and it's frequency cut off output, or perhaps the Audyssey Dynamic EQ will? My Yamaha YST-SW315 subwoofer came yesterday and that's been a setting I've been playing with. Since I haven't dealt with this before, I don't quite know what the best setting is. The manual recommends setting it around the minimum frequency of your speakers, but mine are so old (but very large cabinet speakers) I don't know what their minimum is.
Is there a general frequency cut off rate people usually use for a small room? Right now I have it set to 80 Hz. It goes from 40-140 Hz.
I'm also curious about the subwoofer pre-out port on receivers. The Onkyo I'll be buying only has one. The manual for the subwoofer doesn't recommend connecting it to the receiver that way if there's only one pre-out port (it wants two). I'm assuming this is because the subwoofer has two ports (R/L). If I use a Y adapter, which is what I bought ahead of time, should it be fine?
Finally, I have concerns about my rear speakers for a 5.1 setup. I've recently tried connecting them, but the sound that comes out is muffled and far too quiet. I don't believe the speakers or the wires are at fault. Could this be because the receiver is just too old to support the new surround sound audio formats the games and Blu-ray movies use? And/or because of the cables used? Everything is connected to my television, and I run a red/white audio cable to the receiver for sound. I'm hoping it's because of one or both of these that 5.1 isn't working. I'm also hoping the new receiver I buy will solve this issue.
Anyway, I'm loving this subwoofer. It's my first subwoofer, I've never had one connected to my television setup before, and I can't believe what I've been missing. So much for claiming not to be an audiophile. I can't wait for my receiver now to replace the 15+ year old one I currently have.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
So we're looking to take advantage of presumed Mother's Day sales and try and get a new TV for the living room. Only real requirements are that it be: 1080p, 40"+, and have a good amount of input options (coax being a must). Also preferably available from a B&M store.
Do auto-calibration features generally calibrate your subwoofer and it's frequency cut off output, or perhaps the Audyssey Dynamic EQ will? My Yamaha YST-SW315 subwoofer came yesterday and that's been a setting I've been playing with. Since I haven't dealt with this before, I don't quite know what the best setting is. The manual recommends setting it around the minimum frequency of your speakers, but mine are so old (but very large cabinet speakers) I don't know what their minimum is.
Is there a general frequency cut off rate people usually use for a small room? Right now I have it set to 80 Hz. It goes from 40-140 Hz.
I don't know the answer to a lot of this. However, to be clear, Dynamic EQ has nothing to do with calibration. With "normal" setups, as you lower the volume it affects how you hear the sound. Dynamic EQ adjusts what frequencies get pushed so that as you lower the volume, what you hear sounds the same (just softer). The manual on setting your sub is correct...my understanding is that you usually want your sub handling ONLY the lower frequencies that your speakers can't. Might want to add more modern speakers to your wishlist...till then I'd just guess.
Finally, I have concerns about my rear speakers for a 5.1 setup. I've recently tried connecting them, but the sound that comes out is muffled and far too quiet. I don't believe the speakers or the wires are at fault. Could this be because the receiver is just too old to support the new surround sound audio formats the games and Blu-ray movies use? And/or because of the cables used? Everything is connected to my television, and I run a red/white audio cable to the receiver for sound. I'm hoping it's because of one or both of these that 5.1 isn't working. I'm also hoping the new receiver I buy will solve this issue.
My guess? Your cables. You can't run a red/white audio cable for surround. One color is your left channel, one color is your right. You don't actually HAVE surround going over those cables. I'm surprised you're getting any sound, and my only assumption is that your receiver is trying to interpolate the sound (maybe using Dolby ProLogic II?). Given the age of your receiver I wouldn't expect it to be good at it. Wait for the Onkyo, use HDMI or at least optical, and check back here. Oh and yes your receiver is not gonna support Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, it's too old for that.
I'll get back to responses to my other posts in a minute--thanks a lot for the help, btw!
Today, a local place is having a sale (I think it lasts all weekend). They aren't listing prices on their website, but they are listing the items they've got.
What is the general opinion on these models:
Samsung - LN52B610
Samsung - LN46B610
I guess it may come down to price, unless there are some glaring issues with these sets?
You can head to the site to get the details, but less picture quality, limited to 720p, less extra features as compared to the higher models (though a lot of those I certainly never use). I can definitely see a difference in that display when compared to its big brother the G series.
Is it being limited to 720p really a big deal when, according to the chart, I'd only really be "seeing" the benefits of up to 720p anyway? (11 ft wide room, so a little less than that distance between seating and the set).
I really haven't paid attention to televisions in years, so I'm genuinely curious about all of this (rather than simply trying to defend a cheaper deal I may have found, etc.). I'm not even sure what features I would want or would go completely unused.
You can head to the site to get the details, but less picture quality, limited to 720p, less extra features as compared to the higher models (though a lot of those I certainly never use). I can definitely see a difference in that display when compared to its big brother the G series.
Is it being limited to 720p really a big deal when, according to the chart, I'd only really be "seeing" the benefits of up to 720p anyway? (11 ft wide room, so a little less than that distance between seating and the set).
I really haven't paid attention to televisions in years, so I'm genuinely curious about all of this (rather than simply trying to defend a cheaper deal I may have found, etc.). I'm not even sure what features I would want or would go completely unused.
I personally wouldn't buy a TV mid-40" and above that was 720p restricted. The chart's a good subjective guide but again it comes down to people. Some people still claim that they don't see a difference between all the TVs at Best Buy. Those people wouldn't notice 720p vs 1080p at any size/distance. Those Samsung 610s are solid mid-range LCDs.
Oh and Hamurabi, you gotta have more criteria than that. 90% of 40"+ TVs are 1080p, and all of them have a good amount of input options.
Posts
I seriously think this thread would benefit from a protracted discussion of CIH setups, particularly which anamorphic lenses are best with respect to chromatic aberration and how to make cheap high contrast screens.
Dashui: That Sony looks like a fine budget HT receiver. So long as it has all the video switching, A/V inputs, video scaling, and audio decoding capability you want. Onkyos tend to pack a lot of features in at their price point, a nice pick if you could save up a few hundred more bucks. Are you planning to have a record player in this setup? If so you'll need a phono stage or pre-amp to do RIAA equalization. As far as audio quality goes it's probably fine for movies, but if you're a real audiophile w/r/to music you'll have to listen yourself in-store.
I just want to get an affordable receiver to listen to uncompressed and quality audio with Blu-ray movies and Playstation 3 games. And I want an affordable subwoofer (I have none) to add that extra oomph.
I'll be honest and say I am impressed with that Onkyo, and I would buy it, but it seems a bit excessive. I don't know if I feel comfortable dropping 500 dollars for a receiver if the 285 dollar Sony will excel at what I want.
I am probably going to buy an LED 3D television in the near future, too, and the Sony won't allow me to do 3D audio and video on a single HDMI cable. That's disappointing, but apparently I can just run a digital optical cable from the receiver to the television and that will work? Will the audio quality noticeably lessen with that method or should it be fine?
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and this
are incompatible. Additionally, I can't promise that your TV will send even compressed surround sound over the optical as opposed to just ripping out the two front channels and sending ONLY THOSE uncompressed. If you're interested in 3D, while chasm may be right on the actual TV purchase, I definitely wouldn't be buying a receiver that can't support it down the road.
PSN: TheScrublet
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I'm not 100% on the 3D bandwagon yet. I was only asking if the audio quality would be noticeably less with using an digital optical cable. I'm not an audiophile, so I don't know these things. Since the Sony doesn't support 3D, that's the method I'd have to use instead of a single HDMI cable.
I intend to run a single HDMI cable for both audio and video to the television for regular 2D movies and games, which the Sony supports.
I'm just having a hard time trying to justify spending 500 dollars on a receiver, probably because I'm not a big audiophile. I'm just getting my feet wet in the subject. Not to mention there are other things I'd like to buy.
Let me clarify: You'll run HDMI from PS3 to TV for video, and then optical from PS3 to Receiver for audio, correct? If that's the case you'll get either uncompressed 2.1 via PCM, or AC3/DTS via bitstream, or some kind of matrixed audio. You will not get uncompressed multichannel sound (5.1/6.1/7.1 etc.) over an optical link, there is not sufficient bandwidth. To get Uncompressed multichannel you need an HDMI link between PS3 and receiver to carry audio. I don't know much about 3D so I don't know the details regarding trying to convey both A/V over HDMI to receiver then to TV.
Is there a difference between AC3/DTS and the lossless codecs? Ears and gear man. I think so, but my judgement is hardly objective as I've not conducted blind tests. That said even AC3/DTS is going to give you a surround sound HT experience, this was the norm for HT before lossless codecs were widely available in the retail channel and it still sounds great.
If you're running a stereo or 2.1 system then yeah, you can do HDMI for video and can get lossless audio over optical as it has sufficient bandwidth for that.
I'm a little rusty on this, but I think that's all correct.
Edit: Honestly if 3D is your bag you're going to want to wait as long as you can on the receiver end as so much seems only quasi-standardized. If you really need to feed your HT experience jones then you might just want to go for the cheapest 5.1 solution that'll work for you and save your bucks for the receiver that'll be your 3D A/V brains.
I'd only be doing the optical route for 3D content if I ever bought a 3D television. Everything else will just run on a single HDMI cable, as I just wrote. But you did give me some extra information I needed!
I don't have a 5.1 or higher setup connected. I have the speakers for a 5.1 setup, but I don't really have the room. I just have my left, right, and center speakers connected. What you're telling me is that I can watch 3D movies while running an optical cable to the non-3D receiver and still get uncompressed audio? It would just be 2.1? Because that's perfectly fine with me!
Like I said, I'm not really 100% on the 3D bandwagon yet, nor am I a big audiophile. I just want some extra equipment to enhance the experience a little bit, as I have no subwoofer and a receiver that's probably over 15 years old.
In any case, thanks for all the information you guys have been giving me.
I'm assuming there. Such is the case with Blu-Ray movies, but I don't have a 3D setup so I don't know firsthand if it would work, I think it should since it's still Blu-Ray.
I ran your setup (PS3 with HDMI video, Optical audio) with Blu-Rays for a year or more listening to uncompressed 2.1.
This is the Sony again:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666077695#features
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-STR-DH810-7-1-channel-Receiver-Component/dp/B0038W0J0S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1272487750&sr=1-1
I'm mainly looking for things like Linear PCM, upconverts/upscales component/analog content via HDMI, audio return channel, and auto-calibration, although that last one is merely a plus and not a necessity. Since I'm not a big audiophile, that feature seemed nice. If it supports HDMI version 1.4 for 3D content for around my budget of 300-350, then that's a plus, too. With that I could potentially hook up my two rear speakers if I ever find the room.
Do you guys have any recommendations with those features and budget in mind?
I was looking at the Onkyo TX-SR508 which has HDMI 1.4, an overlaid on-screen display (the Sony doesn't have this, but that's not a big deal to me), as well as the Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Volume features. It's 80 watts per channel instead of the Sony's 110, though. I don't know if that makes a big difference or not. I'm also not sure if the Onkyo upconverts/upscales component/analog content via HDMI, but I do know it doesn't upconvert/upscale to 1080p. My only non-HD device is a Wii, however. I haven't been able to see if it has an auto-calibration feature, either.
Here are two links to the Onkyo TX-SR508:
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR508&class=Receiver&p=i
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR508-7-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/tech-data/B003BEDQQW/ref=de_a_smtd
1. $500 is not a lot for a receiver. Even if you're not an audiophile. I understand your budget, and if that's the constraint than the $500 receiver isn't for you, but it's only been in the last two years or so that these $300 receivers or less have offered anything in the way of features whatsoever. That's why I had to look twice before I noticed that the Sony you linked does analog upconvert to HDMI.
2. While YMMV, I see a lot more people saying they notice the difference between HD codecs and non-HD codecs for audio. It's definitely not a speaker cable/receiver quality debate...a ton of people hear that difference.
3. The TX-SR508 will not upscale to HDMI through analog. However, there's an important point to notice here. The Sony does have 110 watts, but it also has 1% THD (total harmonic distortion) at 1KHz. The Onkyo only has 80 watts but pulls down a .08-.1% THD. In other words, particularly as the volume goes up, I suspect that Sony is going to struggle, at least compared to the Onkyo.
It's definitely up to you on how important some of these extra features are in the Onkyo. I tend to buy stuff for the longterm and thus usually buy up...this TX-SR606 I have was actually a bit of a lower-end compromise for me. For me, with the 3D horizon being unclear, I would not want to buy a receiver that required me to use two cables from the PS3 and ruled out high-def surround sound.
PSN: TheScrublet
Sorry I cannot give you any particular receiver recs, I only occasionally go in to stores to check them out and other then that it's just a feature/spec grid to me. I have a particular fondness for Marantz, but they may be a bit pricey for you. Onkyo seems to do the best about packing the most features into a given price point (particularly in the midrange 500-1000), but Sony/Yamaha often put out something a bit cheaper that has sufficient features for the mainstream consumer.
Anything would be a step up, more than likely.
I'm leaning toward that Onkyo TX-SR508 now over the Sony. Thanks for all the information. You've helped me a lot. In any case, I still have two weeks to decide. I'm going to order my Yamaha YST-SW315 subwoofer by Monday and then two weeks later I can order the receiver, just in time for Red Dead Redemption.
I've never had a subwoofer hooked up to my television before, so this should be an awesome treat along with the uncompressed audio.
Edit: Interesting article on 3D from Roger Ebert:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/237110
PSN: TheScrublet
I did a quick search for HDTVs on Amazon with a maximum price of 300. You can definitely get something bigger than 19 inches. A lot of the ones I saw more-or-less double as computer monitors and televisions, though. The ones that are marketed as simply televisions, at your price range, seem to mostly hover around a 720p resolution and 19" to 22". There are a number of those by good brands such as Samsung and LG, but I'll just list some of the 1080p ones I saw.
This ViewSonic is 24", 1080p, and is marketed as an HDTV for 248.21 USD.
http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-VT2430-24-Inch-1080p-HDTV/dp/B001KLEUOA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1272837530&sr=1-1
I've had experiences with ViewSonic monitors but not their recent models and I don't know how well they make televisions. It has 70 user reviews, though, and stands at four stars.
I also found a 23" 1080p Vizio for 298.00 USD and 26" 1080p Viore for 299.99 USD, but I don't know much about those brands. They both have about 40 user reviews and a 3.5/5 rating, but the reviews in general seem to be mixed.
If you don't mind something that's labeled as an LCD monitor (you can still connect your PS3), HP makes some great panels.
http://www.amazon.com/2509m-25-Inch-Diagonal-Monitor-Black/dp/B002MT6SDU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1272837437&sr=1-1
That one is 25" at 1080p and a price of 268.07 USD. They also have a 27" version at 366.54 USD.
That was just a quick search at one website, but I hope I helped.
The monitor seems like a slightly better deal and I like HP, though at the same time I'm still interested in using it as a TV with my cable hookup, so I'll probably go with the first one. Thanks for the advice.
I'm looking at either the Yamaha YST-SW315 10":
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200489
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-YST-SW315-10-Inch-Digital-Subwoofer/dp/B00009W8XH/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836108120&Tpk=yamaha%20yst-sw315
or the Polk PSW505 12":
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/recent/psw505/
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000092TT0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290130
The Yamaha is a 250w subwoofer with 270w dynamic power output. Its feature list it boasts Advanced YST and QD-Bass (Quatre Dispersion Bass) technology.
"Advanced Yamaha Active Servo Technology (Advanced YST) is a unique system in which the speaker and amplifier work together to cancel out impedance so the speaker unit has a perfectly linear motion. Advanced YST helps to ensure the highest levels of sound pressure and overall performance."
"QD-Bass (Quatre Dispersion Bass) technology uses down-firing drivers with square, pyramid-shaped reflective plates to radiate the sound efficiently in four horizontal directions. The reflective plates negate any effects caused by the floor surface and reduce resonance between sound waves reflected from the floor and the unit."
I also like the design of it, with the controls on the front of the subwoofer. It also has a switch for movies and music.
The Polk, on the other hand, is a 300w subwoofer with an insane 460w dynamic power output. On its feature list it talks about Slot Load Venting. "Slot Load Venting improves bass response. The wide, long Slot Load Vent dramatically lessens turbulence, noise and distortion, pouring out a tidal wave of precise, thunderous bass."
Now I don't know what any of this really means for me. I haven't had much experience with television subwoofers. I have heard good things about Polk, though. Both subwoofers have high reviews, although the Polk has more user reviews (upward of three times as many). I'm not in a big room, and I don't want to shatter glass and break walls, but I do want clean and precise sounding bass free of distortion on all volume levels and one that still gives me plenty of rumble to get me immersed in my games or movies.
Which one would you guys recommend? They both seem fantastic, and are both around the same price, so I'm having trouble choosing.
PSN: TheScrublet
Downward firing typically means more placement options (unless you live above somebody) as side-firing means it's going to reflect off the wall its placed next to. That said, my sub is side-firing and I don't have problems (I don't share walls with anyone though) and if I were to get some window-rattling I could move it away from the wall a few more inches if I didn't want to turn it down.
It's hard to compare across brands, but typically a larger cone means more air displacement. So you won't have to turn up the gain on the 12" as much as the 10" to get the same amount of sound. The gain on my sub is at 2 and never goes higher. Either way you go placement is going to determine whether there's rattling and whether you can localize the position of the sub.
From specs I think either would work fine. Polk speakers (IMO) are a bit boomier then Yamaha, but not sure how much of that carries over to subs since they operate at the low end anyways. I do have the feeling the Polk is going to be more about volume and the Yamaha more controlled, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to advertising.
Now a days, a TV is a monitor with a tuner built in.
Can receivers bottleneck a subwoofer, though? My Denon AVR-1200 is very old. In two weeks I can buy the Onkyo TX-SR508, which has those lovely Audyssey features, but until then I'm stuck with the Denon. I know it'll still sound great regardless, but I'm just curious.
Don't think so. Assuming it's a sub pre-out the only thing the receiver might do is determine the cut-off of the signal it sends to the sub (e.g. somewhere between 80 and 200 Hz probably). It may not even do that, sending the full signal to the sub and relying on the sub's cut-off.
Basically, I've got a 12x11 foot room that I may want to get a television (and 360) for. It's a 3rd (top) floor condo with the traditional sliding glass patio doors perpendicular to the TV wall (and closer to that side than the couch side). It looks like I could easily get away with only 720p, so there's some savings there... and I am extremely tempted by the savings with going to Plasma from LCD.
It sounds like that room is gonna be really bright...you sure you want a plasma? Anyways, to answer your question:
Samsung Plasmas: (## = size, XXX the bigger the better quality, usually)
PN##CXXX - 2010
PN##BXXX - 2009
PN##AXXX - 2008
Panasonic Plasmas: (## = size, X = letter, you'll have to look up to see the range in quality, & is mostly irrelevant)
TC-P##X2& - 2010
TC-P##X1& - 2009
I'm not getting into their 2008 line. It has an annoying numbering scheme.
Pioneer Plasmas:
5020FD or Elite 111-FD - 2008. Nothing else matters.
PSN: TheScrublet
http://hdguru.com/wtf-is-a-thx-certified-display/1523/
I especially like the anti reflection requirement, which more or less screams "STOP USING GLOSSY PANELS IN YOUR TV'S, IDIOTS!" There's also the Image Retention thing, so I'm sure alot of the 2009 Panny's with the black issue also exhibiting unusual IR no longer qualify. Then there's the black level thin, and the floating black thing in the 2010's for Panny. It makes me wonder how they managed certification this time..
Thank you.
I realise the room is probably going to be quite bright, but Plasmas are so much less expensive... Essentially, this will just be used for xbox 360 gaming. Is the bright room going to be a big deal?
[Edit]
What's a Panasonic with the number: TCP50C2 ?
[Edit2]
What's the opinion on the Samsung PN50B430 ? How worrisome is the image retention issue for the 2009 sets?
I was always worried about burn-in when it came to plasmas. Have you tried looking at LED DLPs, too? They're also fairly inexpensive.
When I was looking for my TV a few years ago, I ended up going with one of those. They typically have better colors than LCD panels, and for the size, resolution, and general feature list (the Samsung I bought supports 3D), it had the most competitive price.
They're bulky, however. Not hard to carry with two people, but probably a lot harder to transport in a vehicle than a really thin panel. It's why my next panel will probably be an LED one. I'm definitely going with Samsung again, though.
To some it is. Mine's in a basement so I'm not the best to ask. At the end of the day, no plasma can pump out as much light as an LCD (and it's not good for the plasma to jack up brightness way high).
A very low end Panasonic.
I have seen enough bitching about Samsung plasmas both here and on AVSForum that unless you're buying one of their top end series, probably best not to bother. Even on the top ends, you're still probably better off with the Panasonic. I'd stay away from that 4-series.
PSN: TheScrublet
PSN: TheScrublet
At 50" and a new set I'd want 1080p, but that's me.
This should be the last one, though!
The Onkyo TX-SR508 receiver I'll have by the 18th or 19th has an auto-calibration feature. It has a featured called Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which maintains "a consistent bass response, tonal balance, and surround-sound effect at different volume levels, so you can enjoy the natural dynamics of your content regardless of the volume." Do auto-calibration features generally calibrate your subwoofer and it's frequency cut off output, or perhaps the Audyssey Dynamic EQ will? My Yamaha YST-SW315 subwoofer came yesterday and that's been a setting I've been playing with. Since I haven't dealt with this before, I don't quite know what the best setting is. The manual recommends setting it around the minimum frequency of your speakers, but mine are so old (but very large cabinet speakers) I don't know what their minimum is.
Is there a general frequency cut off rate people usually use for a small room? Right now I have it set to 80 Hz. It goes from 40-140 Hz.
I'm also curious about the subwoofer pre-out port on receivers. The Onkyo I'll be buying only has one. The manual for the subwoofer doesn't recommend connecting it to the receiver that way if there's only one pre-out port (it wants two). I'm assuming this is because the subwoofer has two ports (R/L). If I use a Y adapter, which is what I bought ahead of time, should it be fine?
Finally, I have concerns about my rear speakers for a 5.1 setup. I've recently tried connecting them, but the sound that comes out is muffled and far too quiet. I don't believe the speakers or the wires are at fault. Could this be because the receiver is just too old to support the new surround sound audio formats the games and Blu-ray movies use? And/or because of the cables used? Everything is connected to my television, and I run a red/white audio cable to the receiver for sound. I'm hoping it's because of one or both of these that 5.1 isn't working. I'm also hoping the new receiver I buy will solve this issue.
Anyway, I'm loving this subwoofer. It's my first subwoofer, I've never had one connected to my television setup before, and I can't believe what I've been missing. So much for claiming not to be an audiophile. I can't wait for my receiver now to replace the 15+ year old one I currently have.
Any suggestions?
I don't know the answer to a lot of this. However, to be clear, Dynamic EQ has nothing to do with calibration. With "normal" setups, as you lower the volume it affects how you hear the sound. Dynamic EQ adjusts what frequencies get pushed so that as you lower the volume, what you hear sounds the same (just softer). The manual on setting your sub is correct...my understanding is that you usually want your sub handling ONLY the lower frequencies that your speakers can't. Might want to add more modern speakers to your wishlist...till then I'd just guess.
My guess? Your cables. You can't run a red/white audio cable for surround. One color is your left channel, one color is your right. You don't actually HAVE surround going over those cables. I'm surprised you're getting any sound, and my only assumption is that your receiver is trying to interpolate the sound (maybe using Dolby ProLogic II?). Given the age of your receiver I wouldn't expect it to be good at it. Wait for the Onkyo, use HDMI or at least optical, and check back here. Oh and yes your receiver is not gonna support Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, it's too old for that.
PSN: TheScrublet
Today, a local place is having a sale (I think it lasts all weekend). They aren't listing prices on their website, but they are listing the items they've got.
What is the general opinion on these models:
Samsung - LN52B610
Samsung - LN46B610
I guess it may come down to price, unless there are some glaring issues with these sets?
Is it being limited to 720p really a big deal when, according to the chart, I'd only really be "seeing" the benefits of up to 720p anyway? (11 ft wide room, so a little less than that distance between seating and the set).
I really haven't paid attention to televisions in years, so I'm genuinely curious about all of this (rather than simply trying to defend a cheaper deal I may have found, etc.). I'm not even sure what features I would want or would go completely unused.
I personally wouldn't buy a TV mid-40" and above that was 720p restricted. The chart's a good subjective guide but again it comes down to people. Some people still claim that they don't see a difference between all the TVs at Best Buy. Those people wouldn't notice 720p vs 1080p at any size/distance. Those Samsung 610s are solid mid-range LCDs.
Oh and Hamurabi, you gotta have more criteria than that. 90% of 40"+ TVs are 1080p, and all of them have a good amount of input options.
PSN: TheScrublet
but not as amazing as it could be.
catch my drift?