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The TV Thread: Holiday 2010 has ALREADY begun!

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Posts

  • EddEdd Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    This seems like a good time to finally commit to a TV.

    So I ask this: to someone who values deep, rich blacks and low power consumption above all, what would be the argument against an LED backlit panel versus a traditional LCD?

    Edd on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    $$$

    Improvolone on
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  • Captain VashCaptain Vash Registered User regular
    edited February 2011


    So I ended up buying this tv over the LG for primarily the shallow(ish) reason, of that I like the bezel far better on the LG, and also I couldn't give a fuck about in home 3D.

    Captain Vash on
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  • Post BluePost Blue Redmond, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I haven't visited this thread in a long time, but I used to pipe in, and I remember Scrublet and some other folks had a record of offering consistently good advice. So:

    I've already got my high-end cinematic needs covered by a 6020fd in the living room. My girlfriend does a lot of her viewing in the bedroom, and now she’s hoping to get a bigger set for it. All she really cares about is that it’s big enough to see well from across a large room. Size being her primary concern, is there any real pressing reason why I shouldn’t just pick up this 50” 1365x768 Insignia plasma at Best Buy for $599 (aside from the potential lulz of buying an Insignia, of course)? Word on the street is that it’s just a re-badged Samsung anyway, and I’ve been decently pleased with Samsung panels in the past.

    I haven’t researched brands for a couple years now, so I was hoping to tap the knowledge here instead of doing any actual work myself. Thanks.

    Post Blue on
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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Aside from the Insignia concern, plasmas are heavy hot energy whores.

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  • Post BluePost Blue Redmond, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Aside from the Insignia concern, plasmas are heavy hot energy whores.
    Totally fine. I like them hot and heavy.

    I made the mistake of looking around quite a bit this evening, and now I'm pretty well fixated on the Samsung PN51D450. I was pleased with my B-gen Samsung, and, in addition to two years' refinement, the new bezel really appeals to me.

    But I still might go the ultra-cheap route and pick up the Insignia instead. I saw a comparably spec'd Zenith at Sears for $499 as well, but I don't know the first thing about Zenith anymore.

    Post Blue on
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  • ScrubletScrublet Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Post Blue wrote: »
    Aside from the Insignia concern, plasmas are heavy hot energy whores.
    Totally fine. I like them hot and heavy.

    I made the mistake of looking around quite a bit this evening, and now I'm pretty well fixated on the Samsung PN51D450. I was pleased with my B-gen Samsung, and, in addition to two years' refinement, the new bezel really appeals to me.

    But I still might go the ultra-cheap route and pick up the Insignia instead. I saw a comparably spec'd Zenith at Sears for $499 as well, but I don't know the first thing about Zenith anymore.

    I guess the only question is how tight is the budget? I saw a 50" Insignia at Best Buy for $600 and that 51" Samsung on Amazon for $700. I'm the kind of person who buys stuff and keeps it for a very long time so I almost always take the higher road. I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Insignia is a rebadged Samsung though. I can't say I've seen anything about Zenith either but back when I was hearing about them years ago it was all bad. Of course bedroom TVs usually fall in the who-gives-a-shit category anyways so if that's true just go for the cheapest you can get.

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  • ScrubletScrublet Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    For those interested, HDGuru thinks it has the 2011 Samsung pricing lineup. It's pretty easy to sum up:

    - Edge-lit LED continues to get cheaper across the board, as well as reaching lower minimum price points and rendering old LCD completely irrelevant.
    - Local-dimming LED continues to be ungodly expensive and solidly in the category of not-worth-it given high-end plasma quality and price
    - "Features" continue to extend farther down the price tiers (3D, Internet/extras)
    - Everything's getting thinner

    I can't say I looked up any of the buzzwords they're listing on the TVs but I think the idea of integrating Skype with the TV is pretty cool.

    Edit: OP finally updated so I don't have to do it when this thread pops 100. And wtf happened to the build thread people?

    Scrublet on
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  • EddEdd Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So, what in our opinion constitutes a reasonable response time? What might we consider the longest tolerable response time for a semi-expensive TV purchase?

    I'm still dancing around the Vizio LED series that Cnet is so enthusiastic about, but I've certainly seen response times beneath 5ms. I suppose I just have no frame of reference as to how meaningful that stat really is to my general viewing / gaming experience.

    Edd on
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    This article explains well (1) why response time is important and (2) how you can't really trust manufacturer specs re: response time (and pretty much anything else really other than stuff that cannot be gamed like pixel count, standby power consumption, weight, dimensions).

    "Originally, LCD TVs and monitors were listed with TrTf (Time Rising, Time Falling – sometimes referred to as average). Now, many manufacturers are using a GTG (Gray to Gray) measurement, which is a different average and can measure quite a bit lower than the TrTf time on the same set. Some manufacturers even find it acceptable enough to list just one half of the TrTf time. The problem is there is no industry standard for measurement in response time." [emphasis added]


    So I think your best bet is to go to a store that has the tv you're interested in, sit at the distance your tv is going to be, put on the fastest moving content you're likely to put on, and look for motion blur.

    Djeet on
  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So - we have about $600 to replace our 32" Westinghouse LCD. We're debating between big and hot - a 50" Plasma that only does 720p, and a 46" that does 1080p. We're not really sold on updating to BluRay - and really only rent high def content occasionally - but of course our cable and 360 are high def but again not 1080p native I would guess. My wife is concerned that 50" is crazy big - any folks willing to weigh in?

    Lindsay Lohan on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It's not actually crazy big, and once you have it in your living room (barring a super small space) you'll wonder why you didn't go bigger.

    Malkor on
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  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The jump from 32 to 46 is pretty significant. My preference would be for the 1080p 46 inch, but if high-def isn't that important to you, why not pull the trigger on the 50 inch?

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    How about plasma vs lcd? Other than power consumption is there any major issue we should be aware of?

    Edit: Nevermind - re-read the OP. I am concerned that a few online reviews of the tv we're looking at say burn in was an issue after 20 minutes of viewing but we'll still consider it.

    Lindsay Lohan on
  • Post BluePost Blue Redmond, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    How about plasma vs lcd? Other than power consumption is there any major issue we should be aware of?

    Edit: Nevermind - re-read the OP. I am concerned that a few online reviews of the tv we're looking at say burn in was an issue after 20 minutes of viewing but we'll still consider it.
    Which 50" Plasma are you looking at, and how far will you be sitting away from whichever TV you choose?

    Post Blue on
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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Reposting this from the thread I just made as I don't want to distract from getting help on my initial post:

    Samsung 50in Plasma at BB. It's on sale for $899 which seems mighty nice. I've looked around the webs and didn't see a lot of information/reviews on it. A couple people on AVS forums mentioned it but there was no real discussion about pros/cons; I'm assuming it's an off-model version that is out of Samsungs "main" line or its somewhat old? A few Youtube reviews said it was pretty good. I might run over to the store tonight and see if I can take a look at it; even though everyone says what you see in the store isn't a good judge of a tv's quality. It might not matter anyway, while it's a good price, I doubt I could convince my wife to buy a TV this week.

    EDIT: Model number is PN50C550G1F for those who don't want to click the BB link.

    EDIT EDIT: Found a decent review but I dunno how reputable the site is. They review a lot of plasmas though. Here

    EDIT EDIT EDIT: Hrmmm...some of these LG's on Amazon look pretty nice too for the same-ish price.

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  • Folken FanelFolken Fanel anime af When's KoFRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Beware of Image retention problems on samsung plasmas. They're been a problem with samsungs in the past (as said in the OP). Not sure if Samsung fixed that problem yet.

    Note this is a samsung problem more than it is a plasma problem.

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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Plus, that panny 50" GT25 or whatever it is called that was pointed at a few times back one page has been having near-weekly sales that put it at or lower price point, with all accounts saying panny plasmas are streets ahead of samsung.

    Burtletoy on
  • Post BluePost Blue Redmond, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Beware of Image retention problems on samsung plasmas. They're been a problem with samsungs in the past (as said in the OP). Not sure if Samsung fixed that problem yet.

    Note this is a samsung problem more than it is a plasma problem.
    Totally agree with you, as this is likely still applicable to someone buying a C-gen Samsung. I've owned both A-gen and B-gen Samsung plasmas, and yes, image retention is certainly an issue with those sets. No questions about it. I can't speak for C-gen, but I now own a PN51D450, and I couldn't get it to retain an image if I tried to force it to. Good to know that they're finally addressing some long-standing issues.

    Post Blue on
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  • Post BluePost Blue Redmond, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Plus, that panny 50" GT25 or whatever it is called that was pointed at a few times back one page has been having near-weekly sales that put it at or lower price point, with all accounts saying panny plasmas are streets ahead of samsung.
    Depends on what you read and see for yourself. Their panels noticably lose their ability to display blacks over their lifespan, and their "720p" panels feature rectangular pixels and sub-par horizontal resolution. High end models for both manufacturers display a great picture, with Samsung actually taking a slight lead in the uppermost tier. The big difference is that Samsung doesn't completely cheap out and feature-cripple their lower-end models. Buy a bottom-end Samsung and you get an image that you'll be surpirsed to see at such a low cost; buy a bottom-end Panasonic, and you'll get a lemon that misrepresents the rest of their decent-to-great, though flawed, lineup.

    Post Blue on
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  • ScrubletScrublet Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Post Blue wrote: »
    Depends on what you read and see for yourself. Their panels noticably lose their ability to display blacks over their lifespan

    Man I'm sick of seeing this "fact" running around. The truth is every plasma panel out there will lose blacks over lifespan. They all change voltage drives over time. Is this noticeable? Not without a calibration tool...EXCEPT that Panasonic screwed it up on the 2009 sets and it happened a lot faster than it was supposed to. This has not been the case in 2010, and was never the case before 2009. I imagine this issue from 09 is going to be brought up here or there every year until plasmas are discontinued.
    with Samsung actually taking a slight lead in the uppermost tier.

    I don't know who you're reading but I've never seen Samsung beat out Panasonic in the uppermost plasma tier. The V series took best TV in 2009 and VT in 2010 everywhere I saw. We can of course get into "well but they were cheaper and almost as good" debates but for straight-up PQ no one has beat those VT sets. And I'm talking 2D. We bring 3D into the picture and the one flat out consistent statement that I've seen is that no set really got it all the way right except the VT25 last year.

    Edit: Ironically, the VT25 is also $100 cheaper than the C8000 right now on amazon in the 50" flavor. To be fair the VT25 RETAIL is 300 more.

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  • Post BluePost Blue Redmond, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Scrublet wrote:
    This has not been the case in 2010,
    If you know this for sure, that's great news. I know that it is an issue with the set my neighbor bought in '09.
    Scrublet wrote:
    I don't know who you're reading but I've never seen Samsung beat out Panasonic in the uppermost plasma tier. The V series took best TV in 2009 and VT in 2010 everywhere I saw. We can of course get into "well but they were cheaper and almost as good" debates but for straight-up PQ no one has beat those VT sets. And I'm talking 2D. We bring 3D into the picture and the one flat out consistent statement that I've seen is that no set really got it all the way right except the VT25 last year.

    Edit: Ironically, the VT25 is also $100 cheaper than the C8000 right now on amazon in the 50" flavor. To be fair the VT25 RETAIL is 300 more.
    I should have been more specific. I was talking about measurable black levels -- admittedly but one aspect of a panel's image quality.

    And yeah, this is all with regards to 2D panels. I can't care about 3D.

    Post Blue on
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  • ScrubletScrublet Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Post Blue wrote: »
    I should have been more specific. I was talking about measurable black levels -- admittedly but one aspect of a panel's image quality.

    And by that metric -- measurable black level -- the Samsung still loses to the Panasonic. Especially since at least one major reviewer has measured a near-doubling of the darkest black level when CinemaSmooth is enabled. Which sucks because CinemaSmooth is required for 1080p/24 viewing.

    Scrublet on
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  • MannyTheManateeMannyTheManatee Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Hey guys, I'm a pretty tech-savy guy but a rookie when it comes to HDTV's so I was hoping I could get some advice/feedback/suggestions.

    I've been using a 27 inch flat Panasonic flat screen non-HD CRT with one set component in's for the past 9 years now, it's been very good to me.

    Only issue I've ever had with it is a green tinge in the top left corner when that area is dark/black and that's only in Component mode.

    Anyways, I just came into some money and I'm looking to finally upgrade.

    I'm on the market for Plasma since they're cheaper and in my opinion offer a better picture.

    I plan on using it for Bluray movies, PS3 and Xbox 360 gaming.

    Price range is $1k - $2k and room size is about 12 x 9, it's my bedroom.

    I'm fond of Panasonic myself but I've been out of the game for awhile so any help would be great!

    I plan on buying sometime this week, most likely from a Best Buy so I can get some RewardZone points.

    MannyTheManatee on
  • MannyTheManateeMannyTheManatee Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The new 42' Panasonic 3D model has caught my eye but it just came out and there's not any reviews out on it yet.

    Anyone hear anything about the TC-P42ST30 model?

    MannyTheManatee on
  • krapst78krapst78 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Their VT and GT lines are much better than their ST models. However, the new 30 series (2011) just came out so I haven't heard a lot about their quality. Personally, I'd rather find a deal on last years VT25 than buying a new ST30 if the picture quality is your main concern.

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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    And I'm still in the Boooooooo-3D crowd, myself.

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  • krapst78krapst78 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Stereoscopic 3D doesn't work for everything, but it can definitely add to the experience of the three uses Manny listed (bluray movies, PS3 and Xbox360 gaming).

    There are quite a few 3D-BD movies out now, and they look pretty damn good when coupled with a large 3D screen. I recently watched How to Train your Dragon and Legend of the Guardians in 3D on my plasma and the flight scenes extremely impressive in 3D.

    There are several games on the PS3 and Xbox360 that make good use of the stereoscopic 3D effects and really add to the immersion. It's just a great added bonus to have when you have content that knows how to really make it shine.

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  • ScrubletScrublet Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    At this point the whole 3D debate is pretty much a moot point. If you're buying a plasma that's mid-level or above you're probably going to get it. Ditto for edge-lit LEDs too. And chances are glasses will not be included (if they are it'll only be one pair). If you really like it, go buy some $120 glasses. Otherwise the 2D performance is 90%+ of the reason to buy the TV anyways.

    The other thing I'll mention is that I've heard people say the 3D really doesn't do much for anything until you start talking large TVs (50"+) unless you sit unusually close for TV viewing.

    Scrublet on
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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
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    edited March 2011
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  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Post Blue wrote: »
    How about plasma vs lcd? Other than power consumption is there any major issue we should be aware of?

    Edit: Nevermind - re-read the OP. I am concerned that a few online reviews of the tv we're looking at say burn in was an issue after 20 minutes of viewing but we'll still consider it.
    Which 50" Plasma are you looking at, and how far will you be sitting away from whichever TV you choose?

    http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=14237671

    This is the one we're looking at now - the burn in issue was on a Samsung model I had been looking at, but this is the one that they have in our local store. The wife wants to keep it at $600ish so this seemed like a good bet. I know they're not the top tier of tvs but our 2 crts are Sanyo's and we love them. It's replacing a 32" LCD Westinghouse that's being delegated to our basement.

    I don't know exactly how far away as we're moving Friday and buying the TV for the new apartment and I never measured the living room.

    Lindsay Lohan on
  • chasmchasm Ill-tempered Texan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Do NOT buy a Sanyo plasma. Return rate on them hovers around 60%.

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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Samsung
    Panasonic
    Sony
    LG
    Vizio

    These are the only brands you should bother with

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  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Not to be an optimistic on the brand - but what makes you say 60% return rate? I don't mean to question, but the reviews are almost all positive. I could spend $100 more on a different brand but it would involve a much longer drive in a borrowed truck and the wife wants the $600 price point.

    Isn't Sanyo a part of Panasonic now?

    Lindsay Lohan on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm probably going to be buying a 50" tv soon and was wondering if people have experience ordering from Amazon? I bought my last tv from a local place in case I had to return it but paid the price for that. What do people think at this point?

    shadowane on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Not to be an optimistic on the brand - but what makes you say 60% return rate? I don't mean to question, but the reviews are almost all positive. I could spend $100 more on a different brand but it would involve a much longer drive in a borrowed truck and the wife wants the $600 price point.

    Isn't Sanyo a part of Panasonic now?

    I don't know about their relationship with Panasonic, but how did you wife come to the $600 mark? You can't really say, "I want an X" TV for $Y" without any knowledge of the market.
    You could also buy online. I'm a NewEgg whore.

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  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh - the 50" mark is mine - the $600 is hers. It's basically what's left of my bonus after getting a new couch.

    I was just reading that they were bought by Panasonic in late 2009 so was thinking if the TV is a newer model perhaps it would essentially be a rebranded Panasonic. 60% just seemed incredibly high and I couldn't find anything online giving any real "stay away from Sanyo" messages.

    Lindsay Lohan on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    50" + $600 = DLP

    Burtletoy on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Really, stay away from any one but Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Sony, and Vizio. These companies have a very good track record for making very good products that don't have major self destructive flaws (Panasonic had some issues with a line of plasmas, but that problem has been fixed) This is the collective knowledge of lots of stuff.
    You might get a perfectly fine Sanyo, I'm sure it happens... but thats a solid chunk of change to risk (especially when the picture probably isn't wonderful).

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This discussion has been closed.