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    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Art having a subjective quality is a weird assumption to challenge.

    It's also weird to have a privileged category that is above any kind of objectivity, and once you've created this privileged category then it becomes important to figure out what does and does not fall within its domain.

    Or something, I'm just musing here.

    As a theist, it's creates almost a cognitive dissidence to not have privileged categories above objectivity.

    Zen Vulgarity on
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Art having a subjective quality is a weird assumption to challenge.

    It's also weird to have a privileged category that is above any kind of objectivity, and once you've created this privileged category then it becomes important to figure out what does and does not fall within its domain.

    Does it? Won't that sort itself out naturally over time as it always has?

    ViolentChemistry on
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    matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    So consider the following factors:

    1.) I have $6k in student loans (a federally consolidated loan for which I meet the minimum every month)
    2.) I have $5.1k owed directly to my prior university from which I received no credits, which I am seriously delinquent on but which they don't send to collections I guess because they're a university.
    3.) I'm 21 and I don't make very much money
    4.) I live in PA
    5.) We're in a recession

    Should I go to PSU? I feel like going to a larger school that allows me to take out loans for dorms (like Penn State) would be wise because a.) I'd be working towards a degree, b.) I'd have more free money to pay my active, interest-bearing debt with my old university, and c.) I'd be able to defer my federally consolidated loan while at PSU.

    Thoughts?
    Unless you plan to lie on your application, you'll have to disclose that you attended the prior university, as well as provide transcripts. The new university most likely won't admit you, knowing you owe the prior one 5 grand.

    Man, I hadn't even considered that. Shit.
    Universities tend to be very willing to work out payment plans with you. It can't hurt to at least call and see if you can set up something you can afford. At least then you'd be current, and able to apply to new schools.

    Thanks dude.

    Do you think there's any chance that the Fed would include this debt in my consolidation? It's not a loan but obviously it's a significant expense occurred in the pursuit of my education. Probably not but it'd be fanfuckingtastic if I could defer that $5.1k while I were in school, which could be done if my consolidated loan would swallow it. Or do they only deal with actual loans?
    Unfortunately, since it's not a loan, you can't consolidate it. It's just an unpaid payment. You're really stuck having to go through the school to pay it off. If you can get a payment plan set up though, and get a loan to attend a new school, you can always apply for more than the cost of tuition and use the overage to pay your old school off.

    matt has a problem on
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    ResRes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Art having a subjective quality is a weird assumption to challenge.

    It's also weird to have a privileged category that is above any kind of objectivity, and once you've created this privileged category then it becomes important to figure out what does and does not fall within its domain.

    Or something, I'm just musing here.

    I agree that no assumptions should remain unchallenged forever but once you challenge them you have to be ready for me to poop and then ask you if it's art.

    Podly tell me about the flaws in my poop.

    Res on
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Richy wrote: »
    Is music "art"?

    What about a rap song about a girl's butt? Is that "art"?

    What if the girl in question is the Venus de Milo, and the song is sung in front of the Mona Lisa? Is it "art" then?
    which is why i say art is undefinable, and art is also simultaneously lauded as some high standard of human imagination (and thus has a special connotation) while also being looked down on as a less intellectually engaging activity than, say, academics

    when you use this argument you try to redefine art like it's edgy maaaaan

    late to the party honey like twenty thousand conceptual artists beat you to the punch

    whether or not something is "art," like when it becomes art oh now it's special oooh only a very select amount of things can be considered 'art!' cause we need to keep it exclusive to keep it valuable is kind of irrelevant i think

    Hakkekage on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Res wrote: »
    Res wrote: »
    Podly wrote: »
    Res wrote: »
    Because an art that you like and think is awesome might look stupid to me and then I might not like it.

    So then "art" itself is not subjective, but rather the evaluation of art is -- that art is an object upon which we judge a value predicate?

    You can call something an art and then I might call it poop.

    Obligatory but also I can poop and then say it's art.

    indeed

    Podly on
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Heh, I switched my primary interests from art to academics because I thought it was less intellectually engaging.

    Sarksus on
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    Why do people call Podly Poldy?

    Organichu on
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    CindersCinders Whose sails were black when it was windy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I should create a sculpture of poop and carve it into a person pooping.

    Cinders on
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    DynagripDynagrip Break me a million hearts HoustonRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Why do people call Podly Poldy?

    dyslexia

    Dynagrip on
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Why do people call Podly Poldy?

    Because that was his name before it was changed because everyone misspelled it.

    Sarksus on
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    ResRes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Cinders wrote: »
    I should create a sculpture of poop and carve it into a person pooping.

    That would be, like, art or something.

    --

    Podly: <3

    Res on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    HarrierHarrier The Star Spangled Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    But seriously, fuck Tim Geithner.

    Harrier on
    I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Podly wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    its meaning changes over time and it is a conversation between its content and its form? What we consider less skillful art--take egyptian carvings, for example, which are pretty much abstractions of the human figure--were not valued by the ancient egyptians because they were well done, but because they served their purpose of glorification and recording of events

    i mean i'm taking that example from ghombrich who i read like...5 years ago, but still

    the standards by which we judge art are wholly a factor of its time. Baroque was originally a dirty word. So was impressionism. But if you hate on Caravaggio to an art history major in this day and age you is gonna get SHANKED

    hell i like mannerism better than high renaissance

    There are many flaws in this argument. For starters, it assumes that something could have a private meaning. How could anything have a private meaning? If it cannot be expressed publicly, it cannot have meaning. And if it CAN be expressed publicly, there is already a principle of verification with which we are comparing our opinions.

    If it changes over time, that means that it is not subject based, but rather preserved within objective culture. This, again, shows that it is not inherently subjective.

    If it is a conversation between content and form, than it is NECESSARILY not subjective, because content is only formed within context, and context is a historically dependent entity. It exists as a part of a world with which we interact which has always - already established values. This is basic hermeneutics.

    Also, you are comparing two examples of institutional "high art." Pop is much different.
    siiigh

    fine, okay i'm wrong a la magritte style

    the perception of art is subjective woop woop

    Hakkekage on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Res wrote: »
    Podly: <3

    Manzoni also blew up balloons and sold them for thousands of dollars, calling them "artist's breath"

    Podly on
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I can't believe it's only midnight.

    Sarksus on
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    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Any particular reason or are you just being whiny.

    Zen Vulgarity on
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    So consider the following factors:

    1.) I have $6k in student loans (a federally consolidated loan for which I meet the minimum every month)
    2.) I have $5.1k owed directly to my prior university from which I received no credits, which I am seriously delinquent on but which they don't send to collections I guess because they're a university.
    3.) I'm 21 and I don't make very much money
    4.) I live in PA
    5.) We're in a recession

    Should I go to PSU? I feel like going to a larger school that allows me to take out loans for dorms (like Penn State) would be wise because a.) I'd be working towards a degree, b.) I'd have more free money to pay my active, interest-bearing debt with my old university, and c.) I'd be able to defer my federally consolidated loan while at PSU.

    Thoughts?
    Unless you plan to lie on your application, you'll have to disclose that you attended the prior university, as well as provide transcripts. The new university most likely won't admit you, knowing you owe the prior one 5 grand.

    Man, I hadn't even considered that. Shit.
    Universities tend to be very willing to work out payment plans with you. It can't hurt to at least call and see if you can set up something you can afford. At least then you'd be current, and able to apply to new schools.

    Thanks dude.

    Do you think there's any chance that the Fed would include this debt in my consolidation? It's not a loan but obviously it's a significant expense occurred in the pursuit of my education. Probably not but it'd be fanfuckingtastic if I could defer that $5.1k while I were in school, which could be done if my consolidated loan would swallow it. Or do they only deal with actual loans?
    Unfortunately, since it's not a loan, you can't consolidate it. It's just an unpaid payment. You're really stuck having to go through the school to pay it off. If you can get a payment plan set up though, and get a loan to attend a new school, you can always apply for more than the cost of tuition and use the overage to pay your old school off.

    Okay.

    I don't really have any credit or cosigners so I'm presuming I'll need to rely on strictly governmental loans (in addition to grants and merit awards) which as I understand it are a lot more restrictive in terms of what they'll loan for. Banks will give you money for laptops and deodorant and shit. Damn, this sucks.

    Organichu on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    the perception of art is subjective woop woop

    round two:

    why?

    Podly on
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    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hey podly

    why

    Zen Vulgarity on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hey podly

    why

    because there are things instead of nothing

    Podly on
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    ResRes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Podly wrote: »
    Res wrote: »
    Podly: <3

    Manzoni also blew up balloons and sold them for thousands of dollars, calling them "artist's breath"

    Yes but I can still say that it's not art and that it's just a balloon with air in it. Just like I can say that poop is just poop but my poop is art. "Art" is just as subjective as the perception of art, unless by "perception of art" you mean "perception of what is art" in which case that's just pedantic.

    Res on
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The reason why I want to read philosophy and become intimate with it is so I can beat Poldy into the GROUND AND SHIT ON HIS HEAD.

    I'm going to write that into my final paper for my philosophy class. One of the questions I have to address is "what is philosophy?" I have several definitions already, but I'll squeeze this one in.

    Sarksus on
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    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Podly wrote: »
    Hey podly

    why

    because there are things instead of nothing

    why

    Zen Vulgarity on
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    for

    for what you just said?

    never mind i dropped out of art school so i really don't know much of anything

    you can pride yourself on making me rub my temples

    Hakkekage on
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    Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    hey

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
    poo
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Podly wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    the perception of art is subjective woop woop

    round two:

    why?

    That question's actually just stupid. The first one was viable, this one not really.

    ViolentChemistry on
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    Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    i read that as rub my

    nevermind you know fuck it whatever

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
    poo
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    for

    for what you just said?

    never mind i dropped out of art school so i really don't know much of anything

    you can pride yourself on making me rub my temples

    Don't do that. Poldy will switch positions on you and argue against his own arguments and force you to come up with your own reasons for assuming his old position.

    Sarksus on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Res wrote: »
    Podly wrote: »
    Res wrote: »
    Podly: <3

    Manzoni also blew up balloons and sold them for thousands of dollars, calling them "artist's breath"

    Yes but I can still say that it's not art and that it's just a balloon with air in it. Just like I can say that poop is just poop but my poop is art. "Art" is just as subjective as the perception of art, unless by "perception of art" you mean "perception of what is art" in which case that's just pedantic.

    It is art when it has been removed from its referential framework and thus removed from meaning.

    It's why douchamp's urinal is art, but not the urinals you piss in. Now, would it stop being art for someone if they walked into MoMA alone and had to pee and pissed right in it. I would say, yes, at that moment, for him, it would not be art.

    But I also reject the principle of the excluded middle in regards to many matters of human creation, so I can do that :P

    Podly on
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    ResRes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Philosophy is saying nothing as loudly as possible, as opposed to art, which is saying anything you want as quietly as possible.

    The more you can convince people you are saying something and not saying anything respectively the more good you are at philosophy and art respectively.

    Res on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    OOOOOOH I thought netflix charged me $1 PER blu-ray I rented, but it's just a $1 extra monthly fee to get blu-rays. that's well worth it.

    Variable on
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    i'm not in a good mood man i shouldn't have started a stupid discussion on the same stupid subject i dropped

    hey shaz you know how you said you were gonna hit someone

    hit me

    Hakkekage on
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    CindersCinders Whose sails were black when it was windy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    while(bored >= 0){
    cout<<"Oh god I'm bored";
    }

    Cinders on
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    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I SAID WHY PODLY

    Zen Vulgarity on
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I SAID WHY PODLY

    BECAUSE STOP HITTING YOURSELF

    STOP HITTING YOURSELF

    STOP HITTING YOURSELF!

    Sarksus on
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Or, the easy answer to the stupid question, "because I'm not you, thank god".

    ViolentChemistry on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Podly wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    the perception of art is subjective woop woop

    round two:

    why?

    That question's actually just stupid. The first one was viable, this one not really.

    Not if I reject the idea of a subject-object relationship, actually.

    Podly on
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The Presets are good, okay?

    Sarksus on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Res wrote: »
    Philosophy is saying nothing as loudly as possible, as opposed to art, which is saying anything you want as quietly as possible.

    The more you can convince people you are saying something and not saying anything respectively the more good you are at philosophy and art respectively.

    heh that's pretty good

    Podly on
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