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Women and children first!

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    Zombie MonkeyZombie Monkey Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yar wrote: »
    Single mother with child at home.

    Hes fine, she left sandwiches in the fridge and the electricity wont go off for another 4 days

    Zombie Monkey on
    League of Legends - Enzo III
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    Zombie MonkeyZombie Monkey Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    jothki wrote: »
    Kind of a weird paradox there. If you're the only one that's willing to sacrifice yourself to save someone else while the other people all try to save themselves, and you know nothing else about what kind of difference the other people will make in the world if they survive, aren't you therefore the most worthy person for yourself to save as far as you can tell?

    Someone who doesnt choose life is unworth saving

    Zombie Monkey on
    League of Legends - Enzo III
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    My 90 year old frail ass will gun down every one of you fuckers come the time.

    Quid on
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    BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It's true that when you sacrifice yourself you aren't around to feel good about it, but you also don't regret it.

    Bama on
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    ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Women and children first is most certainly not a product of the misognistic beliefs of the time, it is a remnant belief from all primitive tribes and hunter gatherers. In a crisis, decisions must be made quickly, and a communal understanding of who was most important was key. In a disaster in a primitive society you save people in this order.

    Young women between 16 and 25
    Girls between 10 and 16
    Men/Boys between 10 and 18
    Older women
    Older men
    Young children between 0 and 10
    The elderly

    Its quite simply based on utility and survival. Young women are the most useful, since they can breed a lot and gather food. Girls will soon be young women and so on.

    Very young children are actually least important to save, since they don't do anything useful nor do they represent a significant loss of resources. The only reason its 'Women and Children' first is to make the most important people (young women) leave quickly with their children.

    Nowadays the same expression would logically go "Educated and fertile married couples first!"

    edit - I suppose they don't have to be married! Perhaps "Educated and fertile people who don't mind having sex with each other to produce children first!"

    Sweet I get to go first by your criteria!

    Yes, but you'd also have to have sex w/ Dr. Strangelove.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Better clear all the glasses and conch shells off the boat beforehand though.
    Sucks to your ass-mar!
    :^:

    SithDrummer on
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    Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I don't think people generally go, "I'm going to die so that this person can live." I think it's more like, "I'm going to see this person safe first, then figure out a way to get out of this alive." I doubt they were sitting on that ship thinking, "Goodbye lifeboat. Okay, time for me to die." It was probably, "What can I do now to survive, myself." They just didn't happen to make it.

    Sir Carcass on
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    Zombie MonkeyZombie Monkey Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    do modern boats/vessells have exactly the number spaces on boats for everyone aboard should an emergency take place? I assume yes but then again i wouldnt be surprised to hear no

    Zombie Monkey on
    League of Legends - Enzo III
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yes, that was another lesson learned from El Titanico

    SithDrummer on
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    Zombie MonkeyZombie Monkey Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Speaking of equality when it comes to lives women should be entered into the draft aswell should it be introduced

    Zombie Monkey on
    League of Legends - Enzo III
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Actually, they probably have a buffer boat or two just in case.

    Fencingsax on
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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Women and children first is most certainly not a product of the misognistic beliefs of the time, it is a remnant belief from all primitive tribes and hunter gatherers. In a crisis, decisions must be made quickly, and a communal understanding of who was most important was key. In a disaster in a primitive society you save people in this order.

    Young women between 16 and 25
    Girls between 10 and 16
    Men/Boys between 10 and 18
    Older women
    Older men
    Young children between 0 and 10
    The elderly

    Its quite simply based on utility and survival. Young women are the most useful, since they can breed a lot and gather food. Girls will soon be young women and so on.

    Very young children are actually least important to save, since they don't do anything useful nor do they represent a significant loss of resources. The only reason its 'Women and Children' first is to make the most important people (young women) leave quickly with their children.

    Nowadays the same expression would logically go "Educated and fertile married couples first!"

    edit - I suppose they don't have to be married! Perhaps "Educated and fertile people who don't mind having sex with each other to produce children first!"

    where did you get this list from? Women and children are only the most valuable in certain situations. Like I said before, several eastern nations are having imbalance of gender populations since so many girls are abandoned as babies since males are more valuable to have children.

    and how can you quantify that a belief from thousands of years ago is overruling modern (modern at the time at least) misogony? That white women had to be protected from black men, that they were more fragile and vulnerable to pain, prone to fits of histeria and insanity? Do they come from ancient tribal beliefs as well?

    Casual Eddy on
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Actually, they probably have a buffer boat or two just in case.
    I took a cruise a few years ago and actually I think it's something like a quarter of the lifeboats on the ship are extras (so take the minimum number of lifeboats you would need and add 33% to that)

    SithDrummer on
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    darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I throw my hat in the ring w/ the "me first" crowd. Once upon a time I had notions and ideas of self-sacrifice should the situation demand it. The longer I live, however, the more I realize that I'm the only person I give a fuck about.

    darklite_x on
    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Actually, they probably have a buffer boat or two just in case.
    I took a cruise a few years ago and actually I think it's something like a quarter of the lifeboats on the ship are extras (so take the minimum number of lifeboats you would need and add 33% to that)

    Not for me... I like to stretch out in my life boat.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    Toxin01Toxin01 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Because it's polite?

    I mean really, you would let some woman and her kids die to save your own ass? Or more specifically, your wife and child? (I know thats not what happened in the article.)

    Toxin01 on
    Aiden Baail: Level 1 Swordmage: 19 AC 14 Fort 15 Ref 13 Will (Curse Of The Black Pearls)
    GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Women and children first is most certainly not a product of the misognistic beliefs of the time, it is a remnant belief from all primitive tribes and hunter gatherers. In a crisis, decisions must be made quickly, and a communal understanding of who was most important was key. In a disaster in a primitive society you save people in this order.

    Young women between 16 and 25
    Girls between 10 and 16
    Men/Boys between 10 and 18
    Older women
    Older men
    Young children between 0 and 10
    The elderly

    Its quite simply based on utility and survival. Young women are the most useful, since they can breed a lot and gather food. Girls will soon be young women and so on.

    Very young children are actually least important to save, since they don't do anything useful nor do they represent a significant loss of resources. The only reason its 'Women and Children' first is to make the most important people (young women) leave quickly with their children.

    Nowadays the same expression would logically go "Educated and fertile married couples first!"

    edit - I suppose they don't have to be married! Perhaps "Educated and fertile people who don't mind having sex with each other to produce children first!"

    where did you get this list from? Women and children are only the most valuable in certain situations. Like I said before, several eastern nations are having imbalance of gender populations since so many girls are abandoned as babies since males are more valuable to have children.

    and how can you quantify that a belief from thousands of years ago is overruling modern (modern at the time at least) misogony? That white women had to be protected from black men, that they were more fragile and vulnerable to pain, prone to fits of histeria and insanity? Do they come from ancient tribal beliefs as well?

    I'm not saying this list is correct nowadays, but it exists based on who will be most useful to the survivors. Its such a fundamental concept to basic society that their are elements of it in every one. True in many it is removed and changed. In China for example it would be "Save the boys first!" since they have a history of having so many surplus people that its best to save the boys, since they historically would have a good chance of breeding and getting cash for you. In Europe however the more primitive system hung around longer, people only change their views on stuff like this when they have a good reason to.

    The list was compatable with misogyny, is wasn't created by mysogeny.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    Obs on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?
    Which part, the inherent misogyny? Or the.... inherent misogyny? Yes. Yes we do.

    Fencingsax on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    SkyGheNeSkyGheNe Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    After you treat a woman like she's incapable of anything but combing her hair, she bakes you cookies.

    SkyGheNe on
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    ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    Obs on
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    I'm just polite to everybody. Does that count?

    Rhesus Positive on
    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    SkyGheNeSkyGheNe Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    You mean common courtesy? The thing that should be handed out to anyone regardless of sex?

    SkyGheNe on
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    kaz67kaz67 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    I would say there is a difference between chivalry and having good manners, which I imagine is what you are getting at.

    kaz67 on
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    LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Philosopher King The AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    And THAT is the problem, it's treating women special, and especially in a manner in which it suggests that they aren't as capable.

    Now, is that an inherent part of being a Gentleman? Or can one be Gentlemanly (or Chivalrous), and treat everyone in a decent manner?

    LoserForHireX on
    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
    "We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    Yes, I just see you finishing pissing on a hobo then running to open a door for a lady.

    Here's an idea, maybe be fucking respectful of people regardless of gender.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    kaz67 wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    I would say there is a difference between chivalry and having good manners, which I imagine is what you are getting at.


    So what IS this difference? That one only is for women and the other is for everyone?

    Obs on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    kaz67 wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    I would say there is a difference between chivalry and having good manners, which I imagine is what you are getting at.


    So what IS this difference? That one only is for women and the other is for everyone?

    well, at least according to your concept of chivalry. Which is kind of what makes it so stupid.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    kaz67 wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    I would say there is a difference between chivalry and having good manners, which I imagine is what you are getting at.


    So what IS this difference? That one only is for women and the other is for everyone?
    I thought that was the difference.

    SithDrummer on
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    kaz67kaz67 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    kaz67 wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    I would say there is a difference between chivalry and having good manners, which I imagine is what you are getting at.


    So what IS this difference? That one only is for women and the other is for everyone?

    That and the reasoning behind the behavior itself.

    kaz67 on
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    ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Is at least having chivalry better than having no manners at all?

    Obs on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Is at least having chivalry better than having no manners at all?

    I don't think so. I think that just makes you a misogynistic douche.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    tbloxham where did that list come from?

    Casual Eddy on
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    HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Sucks to your ass-mar!

    :^:

    HerrCron on
    sig.gif
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    Actually, I'd say it depends on the internal logic behind it. The results of chivalry are not bad, but if you are treating women with respect and dignity because they are fragile little flowers who will wilt if you are mean to them then it is bad. Conversely if you treat them with respect and dignity because you enjoy treating women with respect and dignity it is a good thing. It's just its sometimes hard to tell exactly why people do what they do, so feminists get mad.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    Actually, I'd say it depends on the internal logic behind it. The results of chivalry are not bad, but if you are treating women with respect and dignity because they are fragile little flowers who will wilt if you are mean to them then it is bad. Conversely if you treat them with respect and dignity because you enjoy treating women with respect and dignity it is a good thing. It's just its sometimes hard to tell exactly why people do what they do, so feminists get mad.

    Feminists are always mad.

    Obs on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    Actually, I'd say it depends on the internal logic behind it. The results of chivalry are not bad, but if you are treating women with respect and dignity because they are fragile little flowers who will wilt if you are mean to them then it is bad. Conversely if you treat them with respect and dignity because you enjoy treating women with respect and dignity it is a good thing. It's just its sometimes hard to tell exactly why people do what they do, so feminists get mad.

    Feminists are always mad.

    Because of fine upstanding gents like yourself.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Sentry, I know it's Obs, but you're being pretty combative, and you aren't exactly gonna reach hearts and minds that way.

    SithDrummer on
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    ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Whoa wait a minute? You guys consider chivalry a bad thing?

    What's good about it?

    The part about treating women like you're a fucking gentleman?

    Actually, I'd say it depends on the internal logic behind it. The results of chivalry are not bad, but if you are treating women with respect and dignity because they are fragile little flowers who will wilt if you are mean to them then it is bad. Conversely if you treat them with respect and dignity because you enjoy treating women with respect and dignity it is a good thing. It's just its sometimes hard to tell exactly why people do what they do, so feminists get mad.

    Feminists are always mad.

    Because of fine upstanding gents like yourself.

    Don't forget the dames.

    Obs on
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