Tesla is pretty irrelevent, and by their past offerings, a bit "too good to be true." Tesla has a great marketing team, who are fantastic at spin. For instance, the reason they use a single-speed transmission? Well, it's not actually single speed, it's direct-drive. The reason it's direct drive is because they can't get their 2-speed transmissions to stop grenading.
The idea of an actual practical electric car is a decent step forward, but as of yet none has ever seen the light of day. Not to mention that people forget the electricity they use to fill their electric cars has to come from somewhere. It costs less, per-mile, than gasoline, but the huuuuuge cost of the car upfront combined with costly battery changes (along with the servicing the rest of a very specialized car that you can't just take to a local mechanic) make it extremely impractical from a total cost of ownership standpoint. The real future is hydrogen.
How does hydrogen not run into all those same problems, then tack on infrastructural costs?
Stupid Conservation of Matter and Energy! Mark my words, one day I'll make human beings photosynthetic. Shit, I already am. I lose my mind in temperatures under 60.
I drive a 97 Accord. I'm determined to make my next car a modern energy saver, but it would be nice to see a particular system become a standard. Hybrid, Electric, Hydrogen, whatever. That's probably something our children or grandchildren will see. The photosynthesis....not so much. :x
Unfortunately, none of those technologies are that good yet. Hybrid engines only get a slight bump in mileage over gas engines in the same vehicle. Sure the Prius gets 48 highway MPG, but even a 2000 Celica GTS with 180 horse gets 41 MPG on the highway. Hydrogen still requires a breakthrough to be feasible. It's not a matter of incremental change until we see H2 vehicles on the road as even the whole "How do we get hydrogen to the public?" question remains unanswered.
In my opinion, the electrics look like they're closest. Sure, we need to change to nuclear based electricity and battery life, temperature range, vehicle range, toxicity of the batteries, price, and other things need to be improved, but that's only a matter of refinement.
Also, if you want to help the environment, keep the Accord and stay current with the maintenance. Underinflated tires, dirty air filters, and old spark plugs chew noticeably into your fuel economy.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
Xbox - PearlBlueS0ul, Steam
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Tesla is pretty irrelevent, and by their past offerings, a bit "too good to be true." Tesla has a great marketing team, who are fantastic at spin. For instance, the reason they use a single-speed transmission? Well, it's not actually single speed, it's direct-drive. The reason it's direct drive is because they can't get their 2-speed transmissions to stop grenading.
The idea of an actual practical electric car is a decent step forward, but as of yet none has ever seen the light of day. Not to mention that people forget the electricity they use to fill their electric cars has to come from somewhere. It costs less, per-mile, than gasoline, but the huuuuuge cost of the car upfront combined with costly battery changes (along with the servicing the rest of a very specialized car that you can't just take to a local mechanic) make it extremely impractical from a total cost of ownership standpoint. The real future is hydrogen.
How does hydrogen not run into all those same problems, then tack on infrastructural costs?
Much smaller environmental footprint and much easier to adapt to the current distribution model. It makes more sense to have the same trucks carry liquid hydrogen to a hydrogen-converted gas station than to convert each gas station into a mini power station/battery borrowing service.
The only real crutch to hydrogen is refining it in mass quantities, which can be accomplished gradually as the market builds.
Also, you aren't taking into account maintenance, oil changes, filters, &c. which an electric car doesn't have to worry about. Do insurance companies charge more for one of these or would it be a discount as well? Because there's a hell of a lot more eating away at your pocket book for owning a car than just the gas.
I'm pretty sure they'll still need maintenance of some sort.
Yes, but it's a question of cost. If everything is cheaper on an electric car except the sticker and battery replacements that needs to be factored into the 'daily' cost of it. Particularly if you want to get a cost per gallon estimate that'd be necessary to achieve parity or become more thrifty. If, when you take all of this into account the price goes from his ~$5.25 to $4 something it becomes more realistic. We've already hit $4/gallon and when the economy recovers it won't be too difficult to top that again.
I'd lump the price of gas being a symptom of hyperinflation because of the weakening of the US dollar globally, coupled with mega-super-fucking-dumb greed.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Also, you aren't taking into account maintenance, oil changes, filters, &c. which an electric car doesn't have to worry about. Do insurance companies charge more for one of these or would it be a discount as well? Because there's a hell of a lot more eating away at your pocket book for owning a car than just the gas.
I'm pretty sure they'll still need maintenance of some sort.
Yes, but it's a question of cost. If everything is cheaper on an electric car except the sticker and battery replacements that needs to be factored into the 'daily' cost of it. Particularly if you want to get a cost per gallon estimate that'd be necessary to achieve parity or become more thrifty. If, when you take all of this into account the price goes from his ~$5.25 to $4 something it becomes more realistic. We've already hit $4/gallon and when the economy recovers it won't be too difficult to top that again.
I'd lump the price of gas being a symptom of hyperinflation because of the weakening of the US dollar globally, coupled with mega-super-fucking-dumb greed.
Then you would be wrong. Futures trading drove it up higher then it should have been, but when the global economy recovers it will be 4+ a gallon.
Also, you aren't taking into account maintenance, oil changes, filters, &c. which an electric car doesn't have to worry about. Do insurance companies charge more for one of these or would it be a discount as well? Because there's a hell of a lot more eating away at your pocket book for owning a car than just the gas.
I'm pretty sure they'll still need maintenance of some sort.
Yes, but it's a question of cost. If everything is cheaper on an electric car except the sticker and battery replacements that needs to be factored into the 'daily' cost of it. Particularly if you want to get a cost per gallon estimate that'd be necessary to achieve parity or become more thrifty. If, when you take all of this into account the price goes from his ~$5.25 to $4 something it becomes more realistic. We've already hit $4/gallon and when the economy recovers it won't be too difficult to top that again.
I'd lump the price of gas being a symptom of hyperinflation because of the weakening of the US dollar globally, coupled with mega-super-fucking-dumb greed.
It will come back up significantly. It probably won't be in the 4.00-4.50-5.00 range we saw last summer, but 2.50-3.00-3.50 isn't out of the question.
Also, you aren't taking into account maintenance, oil changes, filters, &c. which an electric car doesn't have to worry about. Do insurance companies charge more for one of these or would it be a discount as well? Because there's a hell of a lot more eating away at your pocket book for owning a car than just the gas.
I'm pretty sure they'll still need maintenance of some sort.
Yes, but it's a question of cost. If everything is cheaper on an electric car except the sticker and battery replacements that needs to be factored into the 'daily' cost of it. Particularly if you want to get a cost per gallon estimate that'd be necessary to achieve parity or become more thrifty. If, when you take all of this into account the price goes from his ~$5.25 to $4 something it becomes more realistic. We've already hit $4/gallon and when the economy recovers it won't be too difficult to top that again.
I'd lump the price of gas being a symptom of hyperinflation because of the weakening of the US dollar globally, coupled with mega-super-fucking-dumb greed.
It will come back up significantly. It probably won't be in the 4.00-4.50-5.00 range we saw last summer, but 2.50-3.00-3.50 isn't out of the question.
I agree. The $5 mark is completely asinine though, hence inflation coupled with greed.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
It's pretty, but it's also pretty damn expensive. It would be pretty hard for me, for example, to recoup the extra up-front cost plus the battery replacements.
Math below:
A quick comparison to a 2009 Honda Accord, assuming a ten year car lifetime:
Upfront: $50,000 vs $22,400 (starting prices)
Replacement battery pack: $5,000 vs $0
Other maintenance costs: Who knows? But given the relatively scarcity of mechanics familiar with Teslas, I expect it'd cost like crazy to take it in. I won't include that in the calculations.
$32,600 over ten years is $3,260 a year to make up, $8.93 a day.
Mileage/Cost:
Let's assume the Honda averages 25 mpg. At prices of $2 per gallon, that's 8 cents per mile. If gas prices went back up to $4 per gallon, it's 16 cents per mile.
For the Tesla, I can only do an extraordinarily rough estimate. Assuming a standard 220V, 30A outlet setup and given the four hour advertised charging time, that's 26.4 kWh for 300 miles, or .088 kWh per mile. At average Illinois prices, that comes out to about 1 cent per mile, or 100 miles per dollar.
So, at current gas prices you're saving 7 cents per mile by driving the Tesla. You'd have to drive an average of 127 miles a day to break even, and more to save money. At $4 a gallon, you're saving 15 cents a gallon and only have to average 59.5 miles a day (or a 40 mile commute each way every work day).
tldr; Worth it if you commute a pretty long way every day and you expect gas prices to double again. Of course, if you're planning on buying a luxury car anyway then it's a much more even comparison and probably worth it.
The cost of buying the battery, per day, is $3.43 (5000/4/365), assuming a 4 year time, and $5000 for the cheapest battery. At 165 miles, and an average 25 mile commute (24.3 according to the US census) a day you'd recharge once a week. Recharging a battery that size may be expensive, I'd need to know those numbers first.
The cost of filling up a 10 gallon tank at $2 a gallon is $20. Assuming an average 25 MPG car, that's 250 miles a fill up. That's almost two weeks a fillup. That's $80 a month, or $2.63 a day (this number is slightly higher when factoring in extra travel).
The gas prices would need to be close to $5.25ish a gallon to be close to the same costs. That's not factoring in some minor things like extra travel, longer commutes, recharge costs of the battery, etc etc.
It's actually more expensive to use the purely electric one by far. If my math is wrong feel free to call me on it.
Currently, and for short distances (I didn't look up that average commute, that's a good number), that's true. I assumed a 5-year life for the battery, for a single replacement in the 10-year lifespan, so that would affect the numbers a bit. Don't forget that you get your first battery when you buy the car.
But unless I've made some sort of horrible error or awful assumption in my calculations for electricity cost, the recharging is very cheap comparatively to buying gas. If a company could come out with a reasonably priced vehicle like this, I think it could be competitive.
Yes, but it's a question of cost. If everything is cheaper on an electric car except the sticker and battery replacements that needs to be factored into the 'daily' cost of it. Particularly if you want to get a cost per gallon estimate that'd be necessary to achieve parity or become more thrifty. If, when you take all of this into account the price goes from his ~$5.25 to $4 something it becomes more realistic. We've already hit $4/gallon and when the economy recovers it won't be too difficult to top that again
You can't just go to a standard mechanic with a car that's got a market penetration of 20000 maximum. How much do you think a Tesla dealership will charge you for labor, given that you've already proven you're willing to drop 50 grand on a car?
Yes, but it's a question of cost. If everything is cheaper on an electric car except the sticker and battery replacements that needs to be factored into the 'daily' cost of it. Particularly if you want to get a cost per gallon estimate that'd be necessary to achieve parity or become more thrifty. If, when you take all of this into account the price goes from his ~$5.25 to $4 something it becomes more realistic. We've already hit $4/gallon and when the economy recovers it won't be too difficult to top that again
You can't just go to a standard mechanic with a car that's got a market penetration of 20000 maximum. How much do you think a Tesla dealership will charge you for labor, given that you've already proven you're willing to drop 50 grand on a car?
There's also the parts other than the drivetrain, the parts that go first on most cars anyway. Unless the Tesla cars are using suspension parts that are found in cars with more than 200 total units on the road, you're looking at paying 4 or 5 times as much for something like shocks, which incidentally wear faster the heavier the car.
This is why I perfer hybrids to electrics - owning an electric basically requires that you also still own a gas car that you can use on longer trips. And it's not like you can say when buying a car that never in the next decade will you need to drive >300 miles.
It might work better in a place like Europe where there's trains everywhere, but in America long drives are a lot more commonplace.
You could always just rent a car if you are taking a road trip once a year or so.
Stupid Conservation of Matter and Energy! Mark my words, one day I'll make human beings photosynthetic. Shit, I already am. I lose my mind in temperatures under 60.
I drive a 97 Accord. I'm determined to make my next car a modern energy saver, but it would be nice to see a particular system become a standard. Hybrid, Electric, Hydrogen, whatever. That's probably something our children or grandchildren will see. The photosynthesis....not so much. :x
Unfortunately, none of those technologies are that good yet. Hybrid engines only get a slight bump in mileage over gas engines in the same vehicle. Sure the Prius gets 48 highway MPG, but even a 2000 Celica GTS with 180 horse gets 41 MPG on the highway. Hydrogen still requires a breakthrough to be feasible. It's not a matter of incremental change until we see H2 vehicles on the road as even the whole "How do we get hydrogen to the public?" question remains unanswered.
In my opinion, the electrics look like they're closest. Sure, we need to change to nuclear based electricity and battery life, temperature range, vehicle range, toxicity of the batteries, price, and other things need to be improved, but that's only a matter of refinement.
Also, if you want to help the environment, keep the Accord and stay current with the maintenance. Underinflated tires, dirty air filters, and old spark plugs chew noticeably into your fuel economy.
My father had an old 92 Civic VX, which had Honda's (in)famous VTEC set for economy mode, and VTEC Kicked In at all of 2000rpms. It might have only had 88hp or so, but that fucker got 60mpg highway.
I would buy the shit out of one if I could find one now.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I don't think there is really any reason you couldn't have a wireless charging system built into the parking lot. You could manage over a foot or so ok, but it would cost a whole lot more than 220v or 440v cords. It would need to be pretty severely over-engineered too, because you'd be talking about pretty large amounts of electricity where folks would be walking about in the rain. It's just not terribly practical, and you don't gain a lot if you are just talking about recharging while parked.
Plus I don't know how keen a lot of companies would be (basically) paying for their employees' fuel.
I don't think there is really any reason you couldn't have a wireless charging system built into the parking lot. You could manage over a foot or so ok, but it would cost a whole lot more than 220v or 440v cords. It would need to be pretty severely over-engineered too, because you'd be talking about pretty large amounts of electricity where folks would be walking about in the rain. It's just not terribly practical, and you don't gain a lot if you are just talking about recharging while parked.
Plus I don't know how keen a lot of companies would be (basically) paying for their employees' fuel.
Some companies have programs to pay for transit ridership among employees. This would kind of be along that route, though I doubt it would continue if electric cars actually replaced ICE cars. Still, it could just work like a parking meter. Put in $0.75 and get however many watts.
My commute is short so I'm looking and since electric vehicles are still a way off I'm looking at buying a scooter to save gas and miles on my car. I have my eye on the Piaggio MP3 500 as it looks sweet!!!
My commute is short and since electric vehicles are still a way off I'm looking at buying a scooter to save gas and miles on my car. I have my eye on the Piaggio MP3 500 as it looks sweet!!!
I don't think there is really any reason you couldn't have a wireless charging system built into the parking lot. You could manage over a foot or so ok, but it would cost a whole lot more than 220v or 440v cords. It would need to be pretty severely over-engineered too, because you'd be talking about pretty large amounts of electricity where folks would be walking about in the rain. It's just not terribly practical, and you don't gain a lot if you are just talking about recharging while parked.
Plus I don't know how keen a lot of companies would be (basically) paying for their employees' fuel.
I think it would be keen to throw companies a tax credit for it far a decade or so. Let everyone get used to it, and then just cut it out of the budget, or write it to sunrise. Either they accept it as part of compensation, or they bill folks for it. Some form of at work recharging would really be very helpful.
My commute is short and since electric vehicles are still a way off I'm looking at buying a scooter to save gas and miles on my car. I have my eye on the Piaggio MP3 500 as it looks sweet!!!
My commute is short and since electric vehicles are still a way off I'm looking at buying a scooter to save gas and miles on my car. I have my eye on the Piaggio MP3 500 as it looks sweet!!!
My father and I were discussing the Tesla last night after Top Gear. He is the General Manager of a Utility Company in a town of 25K and is on power regulation boards locally and nationally.
The problem with the Tesla is that charging it uses electricity, Nationally, we do not have the capacity to keep power active for homes and businesses to continue growing. Greeners say no Coal, no Nuclear, only wind and water generated electricity. My state has said no new power plants, only wind farms. Wind does not always blow and electricity cannot be stored at that scale.
So millions of new cars on the road all pulling a 440w line would mean huge jumps in kWh costs and likely outages as we have no available power for some places.
This would put all existing power plants working past capacity, using more coal and producing more waste materials, ultimately leaving us in no better shape than we were with gas engines.
Electric cars are no better than the E85 crap a few years ago where we burned our food for fuel. Hydrogen is the most logical answer for our future motoring.
Who is saying no to nuclear? Hell we have a dozen reactors going through the paperwork as it is. Yeah, it'll take a decade for them to actually get built and start making power...but I don't expect 2 Tesla's in every garage come summer either.
Who is saying no to nuclear? Hell we have a dozen reactors going through the paperwork as it is. Yeah, it'll take a decade for them to actually get built and start making power...but I don't expect 2 Tesla's in every garage come summer either.
No one who matters thankfully. :P
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Actually, My state, MN, has legislation on the books that all new power must come from wind and we are not allowed to buy power produced by Nuclear or Coal. I did not get the specifics, but he mentioned that this was not limited to MN alone.
My father and I were discussing the Tesla last night after Top Gear. He is the General Manager of a Utility Company in a town of 25K and is on power regulation boards locally and nationally.
The problem with the Tesla is that charging it uses electricity, Nationally, we do not have the capacity to keep power active for homes and businesses to continue growing. Greeners say no Coal, no Nuclear, only wind and water generated electricity. My state has said no new power plants, only wind farms. Wind does not always blow and electricity cannot be stored at that scale.
So millions of new cars on the road all pulling a 440w line would mean huge jumps in kWh costs and likely outages as we have no available power for some places.
This would put all existing power plants working past capacity, using more coal and producing more waste materials, ultimately leaving us in no better shape than we were with gas engines.
Electric cars are no better than the E85 crap a few years ago where we burned our food for fuel. Hydrogen is the most logical answer for our future motoring.
most people would be charging their cars at night, during off peak hours. It helps mitigate it somewhat, but there would eventually need to be more capacity. Some states are also not retarded, so electric car might fair better in those locations. If hawaii had sufficient nuclear power, electric cars would be hugely attractive. Probably even if they are just shipping boatloads of coal rather than gasoline.
It's not going to happen everywhere at the same rate
Who is saying no to nuclear? Hell we have a dozen reactors going through the paperwork as it is. Yeah, it'll take a decade for them to actually get built and start making power...but I don't expect 2 Tesla's in every garage come summer either.
No one who matters thankfully. :P
Except, y'know, people who vote, and community action groups who successfully lobby politicians to halt production of DoE facilities necessary to expansion of nuclear power, and stuff like that.
Actually, My state, MN, has legislation on the books that all new power must come from wind and we are not allowed to buy power produced by Nuclear or Coal. I did not get the specifics, but he mentioned that this was not limited to MN alone.
I think you might be referring to this,
That year, the legislature required Northern States Power (NSP, now Xcel Energy) to produce or contract for 425 megawatts of wind energy by 2002
Which is not the same thing you just said, because that would be an amazingly stupid law.
My father and I were discussing the Tesla last night after Top Gear. He is the General Manager of a Utility Company in a town of 25K and is on power regulation boards locally and nationally.
The problem with the Tesla is that charging it uses electricity, Nationally, we do not have the capacity to keep power active for homes and businesses to continue growing. Greeners say no Coal, no Nuclear, only wind and water generated electricity. My state has said no new power plants, only wind farms. Wind does not always blow and electricity cannot be stored at that scale.
So millions of new cars on the road all pulling a 440w line would mean huge jumps in kWh costs and likely outages as we have no available power for some places.
This would put all existing power plants working past capacity, using more coal and producing more waste materials, ultimately leaving us in no better shape than we were with gas engines.
Electric cars are no better than the E85 crap a few years ago where we burned our food for fuel. Hydrogen is the most logical answer for our future motoring.
most people would be charging their cars at night, during off peak hours. It helps mitigate it somewhat, but there would eventually need to be more capacity. Some states are also not retarded, so electric car might fair better in those locations. If hawaii had sufficient nuclear power, electric cars would be hugely attractive. Probably even if they are just shipping boatloads of coal rather than gasoline.
It's not going to happen everywhere at the same rate
But with wind power, for example, nights are not peak generating times.
My father and I were discussing the Tesla last night after Top Gear. He is the General Manager of a Utility Company in a town of 25K and is on power regulation boards locally and nationally.
The problem with the Tesla is that charging it uses electricity, Nationally, we do not have the capacity to keep power active for homes and businesses to continue growing. Greeners say no Coal, no Nuclear, only wind and water generated electricity. My state has said no new power plants, only wind farms. Wind does not always blow and electricity cannot be stored at that scale.
So millions of new cars on the road all pulling a 440w line would mean huge jumps in kWh costs and likely outages as we have no available power for some places.
This would put all existing power plants working past capacity, using more coal and producing more waste materials, ultimately leaving us in no better shape than we were with gas engines.
Electric cars are no better than the E85 crap a few years ago where we burned our food for fuel. Hydrogen is the most logical answer for our future motoring.
most people would be charging their cars at night, during off peak hours. It helps mitigate it somewhat, but there would eventually need to be more capacity. Some states are also not retarded, so electric car might fair better in those locations. If hawaii had sufficient nuclear power, electric cars would be hugely attractive. Probably even if they are just shipping boatloads of coal rather than gasoline.
It's not going to happen everywhere at the same rate
But with wind power, for example, nights are not peak generating times.
Cite? Because I'm pretty sure the wind doesn't really care if its sunny or not. Photovoltaics, sure, but cold fronts move regardless of the time of day.
My father and I were discussing the Tesla last night after Top Gear. He is the General Manager of a Utility Company in a town of 25K and is on power regulation boards locally and nationally.
The problem with the Tesla is that charging it uses electricity, Nationally, we do not have the capacity to keep power active for homes and businesses to continue growing. Greeners say no Coal, no Nuclear, only wind and water generated electricity. My state has said no new power plants, only wind farms. Wind does not always blow and electricity cannot be stored at that scale.
So millions of new cars on the road all pulling a 440w line would mean huge jumps in kWh costs and likely outages as we have no available power for some places.
This would put all existing power plants working past capacity, using more coal and producing more waste materials, ultimately leaving us in no better shape than we were with gas engines.
Electric cars are no better than the E85 crap a few years ago where we burned our food for fuel. Hydrogen is the most logical answer for our future motoring.
most people would be charging their cars at night, during off peak hours. It helps mitigate it somewhat, but there would eventually need to be more capacity. Some states are also not retarded, so electric car might fair better in those locations. If hawaii had sufficient nuclear power, electric cars would be hugely attractive. Probably even if they are just shipping boatloads of coal rather than gasoline.
It's not going to happen everywhere at the same rate
But with wind power, for example, nights are not peak generating times.
Nuclear, Hydrodynamic, Geothermal, Tidal and Nuclear all don't care about the time of day.
Yes, actually. I'm kinda dumbfounded by MN's view of it. They have a bit of a point though, and I would like them to just push Yucca Mountain through already.
Cite? Because I'm pretty sure the wind doesn't really care if its sunny or not. Photovoltaics, sure, but cold fronts move regardless of the time of day.
I would, but I don't really care that much. I've read in a few wind power studies that suggest wind tends to blow more in the daytime, due to heat from the sun and all of that. Also that's what I learned in my into to meteorology class, if I remember correctly. (It was an elective, I was a freshman. That may or may not be true.)
Posts
How does hydrogen not run into all those same problems, then tack on infrastructural costs?
Unfortunately, none of those technologies are that good yet. Hybrid engines only get a slight bump in mileage over gas engines in the same vehicle. Sure the Prius gets 48 highway MPG, but even a 2000 Celica GTS with 180 horse gets 41 MPG on the highway. Hydrogen still requires a breakthrough to be feasible. It's not a matter of incremental change until we see H2 vehicles on the road as even the whole "How do we get hydrogen to the public?" question remains unanswered.
In my opinion, the electrics look like they're closest. Sure, we need to change to nuclear based electricity and battery life, temperature range, vehicle range, toxicity of the batteries, price, and other things need to be improved, but that's only a matter of refinement.
Also, if you want to help the environment, keep the Accord and stay current with the maintenance. Underinflated tires, dirty air filters, and old spark plugs chew noticeably into your fuel economy.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Much smaller environmental footprint and much easier to adapt to the current distribution model. It makes more sense to have the same trucks carry liquid hydrogen to a hydrogen-converted gas station than to convert each gas station into a mini power station/battery borrowing service.
The only real crutch to hydrogen is refining it in mass quantities, which can be accomplished gradually as the market builds.
I'd lump the price of gas being a symptom of hyperinflation because of the weakening of the US dollar globally, coupled with mega-super-fucking-dumb greed.
Then you would be wrong. Futures trading drove it up higher then it should have been, but when the global economy recovers it will be 4+ a gallon.
It will come back up significantly. It probably won't be in the 4.00-4.50-5.00 range we saw last summer, but 2.50-3.00-3.50 isn't out of the question.
I agree. The $5 mark is completely asinine though, hence inflation coupled with greed.
But unless I've made some sort of horrible error or awful assumption in my calculations for electricity cost, the recharging is very cheap comparatively to buying gas. If a company could come out with a reasonably priced vehicle like this, I think it could be competitive.
You can't just go to a standard mechanic with a car that's got a market penetration of 20000 maximum. How much do you think a Tesla dealership will charge you for labor, given that you've already proven you're willing to drop 50 grand on a car?
There's also the parts other than the drivetrain, the parts that go first on most cars anyway. Unless the Tesla cars are using suspension parts that are found in cars with more than 200 total units on the road, you're looking at paying 4 or 5 times as much for something like shocks, which incidentally wear faster the heavier the car.
Only for the drivetrain. And that warranty is actually matched by several manufacturers already.
You could always just rent a car if you are taking a road trip once a year or so.
My father had an old 92 Civic VX, which had Honda's (in)famous VTEC set for economy mode, and VTEC Kicked In at all of 2000rpms. It might have only had 88hp or so, but that fucker got 60mpg highway.
I would buy the shit out of one if I could find one now.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Plus I don't know how keen a lot of companies would be (basically) paying for their employees' fuel.
Some companies have programs to pay for transit ridership among employees. This would kind of be along that route, though I doubt it would continue if electric cars actually replaced ICE cars. Still, it could just work like a parking meter. Put in $0.75 and get however many watts.
http://www.piaggiousa.com/scooters.php#/overview/Piaggio%20MP3%20500
I think it would be keen to throw companies a tax credit for it far a decade or so. Let everyone get used to it, and then just cut it out of the budget, or write it to sunrise. Either they accept it as part of compensation, or they bill folks for it. Some form of at work recharging would really be very helpful.
oh god kill it with fire
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Seriously? I saw a few on my local streets and they look awesome.
Awesome:
NOT awesome:
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I'm actually thinking of going this route:
Not as awesome as #1 but still several orders of magnitude more awesome than #2.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
The problem with the Tesla is that charging it uses electricity, Nationally, we do not have the capacity to keep power active for homes and businesses to continue growing. Greeners say no Coal, no Nuclear, only wind and water generated electricity. My state has said no new power plants, only wind farms. Wind does not always blow and electricity cannot be stored at that scale.
So millions of new cars on the road all pulling a 440w line would mean huge jumps in kWh costs and likely outages as we have no available power for some places.
This would put all existing power plants working past capacity, using more coal and producing more waste materials, ultimately leaving us in no better shape than we were with gas engines.
Electric cars are no better than the E85 crap a few years ago where we burned our food for fuel. Hydrogen is the most logical answer for our future motoring.
No one who matters thankfully. :P
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most people would be charging their cars at night, during off peak hours. It helps mitigate it somewhat, but there would eventually need to be more capacity. Some states are also not retarded, so electric car might fair better in those locations. If hawaii had sufficient nuclear power, electric cars would be hugely attractive. Probably even if they are just shipping boatloads of coal rather than gasoline.
It's not going to happen everywhere at the same rate
Except, y'know, people who vote, and community action groups who successfully lobby politicians to halt production of DoE facilities necessary to expansion of nuclear power, and stuff like that.
I think you might be referring to this,
Which is not the same thing you just said, because that would be an amazingly stupid law.
But with wind power, for example, nights are not peak generating times.
Cite? Because I'm pretty sure the wind doesn't really care if its sunny or not. Photovoltaics, sure, but cold fronts move regardless of the time of day.
The reason that's ironic is that I work for one of the largest worldwide manufacturers of drilling equipment for the oil and gas industry.
I never finish anyth
Nuclear, Hydrodynamic, Geothermal, Tidal and Nuclear all don't care about the time of day.
Nuclear power, so awesome it's mentioned twice.
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I would, but I don't really care that much. I've read in a few wind power studies that suggest wind tends to blow more in the daytime, due to heat from the sun and all of that. Also that's what I learned in my into to meteorology class, if I remember correctly. (It was an elective, I was a freshman. That may or may not be true.)
Of course not, which is awesome. Unfortunately none are being given the emphasis that wind generation is.