I'm usually sitting around twiddling my thumbs to get the Req just to get one Carnifex, let alone multiple ones.
As for artillery, don't even start that. Plasma devs are so much more ridiculous than the Zoey it's not even funny. You're seriously going to call the Zoey imba but plasma devs fine?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and show me the part where Zoeys do huge amounts of damage and knockback to infantry, and 75% of that damage to vehicles? Oh wait, they don't, they're only useful against vehicles.
Plasma Devs are conspicuously absent from Akira's list but I will chalk that up to the fact that he doesn't play much 3v3. Certain things are far more powerful in 3v3 than 1v1, and Plasma Devs are definitely one of those things. But zoanthropes are incredibly powerful, the ability to stun a vehicle and then kill it so quickly is just ridiculous. And they do indead do great damage to infantry, I have had to retreat many a horde from Zoans.
rts on
skype: rtschutter
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
EDIT: Oh yeah, and show me the part where Zoeys do huge amounts of damage and knockback to infantry, and 75% of that damage to vehicles? Oh wait, they don't, they're only useful against vehicles.
Er, to be honest, they do decent damage against infantry as well. No knockback, but they're one of your better choices against enemy swarms if you can keep them up. Plus, they pretty easily win against other races' artillery 1v1 since they gib them in two shots provided the guys' assisting the weapon didn't scatter too far to find cover.
Mind you, since their AI is so piss poor sometimes and just looooooves to run up, it can be difficult to keep them out of direct combat. I guess that's one small advantage the setup teams get?
Plasma Devs are conspicuously absent from Akira's list but I will chalk that up to the fact that he doesn't play much 3v3. Certain things are far more powerful in 3v3 than 1v1, and Plasma Devs are definitely one of those things. But zoanthropes are incredibly powerful, the ability to stun a vehicle and then kill it so quickly is just ridiculous. And they do indead do great damage to infantry, I have had to retreat many a horde from Zoans.
Plasma devs (and D-cannons) setting up on the right side of cap spire covered by base turrets and within range of the middle VP needs to go away. =/
Mind you, since their AI is so piss poor sometimes and just looooooves to run up, it can be difficult to keep them out of direct combat. I guess that's one small advantage the setup teams get?
Nope, not at all. If you direct your emplacement to fire at an enemy, even if it's in their firing arc, there's a large chance they'll start tearing down their weapon and may either run up to it and try to melee it or will turn slightly and set back up.
Mind you, since their AI is so piss poor sometimes and just looooooves to run up, it can be difficult to keep them out of direct combat. I guess that's one small advantage the setup teams get?
Nope, not at all. If you direct your emplacement to fire at an enemy, even if it's in their firing arc, there's a large chance they'll start tearing down their weapon and may either run up to it and try to melee it or will turn slightly and set back up.
This usually happens if a squad member is leaving the firing arc or was already outside the firing arc. Or you accidentally clicked the ground nearby them. If someone start creeping out of the area, but you need to maintain your current arc, don't hesitate to hit "s" a few times.
That being said, sometimes they just like to unpack for no obvious reason. Those are the most annoying of times. Some can be avoided, if you have the time to watch em.
edit: I really don't have any diversity in my 1v1s. It's always SM and Eldar. goddamn.
Corp.Shephard on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Mind you, since their AI is so piss poor sometimes and just looooooves to run up, it can be difficult to keep them out of direct combat. I guess that's one small advantage the setup teams get?
Nope, not at all. If you direct your emplacement to fire at an enemy, even if it's in their firing arc, there's a large chance they'll start tearing down their weapon and may either run up to it and try to melee it or will turn slightly and set back up.
Ew. That's pretty bad.
It's also pretty bad how allied vehicles can run into a platform and redirect it. If it was a guard plat watching your team's gens or something, that can be...problematic if no one noticed. =/
I'm usually sitting around twiddling my thumbs to get the Req just to get one Carnifex, let alone multiple ones.
As for artillery, don't even start that. Plasma devs are so much more ridiculous than the Zoey it's not even funny. You're seriously going to call the Zoey imba but plasma devs fine?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and show me the part where Zoeys do huge amounts of damage and knockback to infantry, and 75% of that damage to vehicles? Oh wait, they don't, they're only useful against vehicles.
Funny, I remember playing Nids once, holding my own, then throwing out three carnifexes. And I remember playing a 1v1, holding my own, and then the 'Nid threw out three carnifexes. Maybe you're the one that never plays 'Nids?
I'm usually sitting around twiddling my thumbs to get the Req just to get one Carnifex, let alone multiple ones.
As for artillery, don't even start that. Plasma devs are so much more ridiculous than the Zoey it's not even funny. You're seriously going to call the Zoey imba but plasma devs fine?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and show me the part where Zoeys do huge amounts of damage and knockback to infantry, and 75% of that damage to vehicles? Oh wait, they don't, they're only useful against vehicles.
Plasma Devs are conspicuously absent from Akira's list but I will chalk that up to the fact that he doesn't play much 3v3. Certain things are far more powerful in 3v3 than 1v1, and Plasma Devs are definitely one of those things. But zoanthropes are incredibly powerful, the ability to stun a vehicle and then kill it so quickly is just ridiculous. And they do indead do great damage to infantry, I have had to retreat many a horde from Zoans.
Oh yeah I should have mentioned, pretty much all the complaining I do is directed at 1v1, so is the list. 3v3 has it's own set of problems but I don't play it much since my teammates ragequit DoW2 (</3).
Also a lot of my problems with Zoanthropes are related to Ravener tunnels, since they negate their main disadvantage of being slow (slow here being relative of course, "slow" by tyranid standards is a Zoanthrope at max speed 4, compared to SM where all their infantry but Scouts are somewhere between 4 (Terminators) and 5 (tacs/ASM/heroes), with devastators falling in the middle at 4.5). Assuming we're talking about 1v1, Plasma Devs don't even compare to Zoanthropes. Having a shield, a vehicle stun and no setup time is massive 1v1, and furthermore the only time you can afford to deploy plasma devs against Tyranids is if they have a Hive Tyrant commander or you have a large map advantage and time to setup defenses, otherwise they're going to fall into a melee tarpit in the open or get spore mined in a building.
Carnifexes are very expensive. There's no doubt. However, the tyranids are really good at not having an excessive upkeep.
Gaunts are free to reinforce for two commanders. The other commander preserves his forces by choosing his fights and turning situations into the worst possible through supreme ambush.
Just removing these upkeep reinforcement issues quickly puts nids ahead economically this way. Tonight, we played a random game and I drew Hive Tyrant. With brood nest, the amount of resources I spent reinforcing my troops was so pitiful, I had the ability to pump out three carnifexes without sacrificing any part of my original army.
Even late game, I have to keep my slugga squads up to full to tie things up, and for repairs.
I'm usually sitting around twiddling my thumbs to get the Req just to get one Carnifex, let alone multiple ones.
As for artillery, don't even start that. Plasma devs are so much more ridiculous than the Zoey it's not even funny. You're seriously going to call the Zoey imba but plasma devs fine?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and show me the part where Zoeys do huge amounts of damage and knockback to infantry, and 75% of that damage to vehicles? Oh wait, they don't, they're only useful against vehicles.
Plasma Devs are conspicuously absent from Akira's list but I will chalk that up to the fact that he doesn't play much 3v3. Certain things are far more powerful in 3v3 than 1v1, and Plasma Devs are definitely one of those things. But zoanthropes are incredibly powerful, the ability to stun a vehicle and then kill it so quickly is just ridiculous. And they do indead do great damage to infantry, I have had to retreat many a horde from Zoans.
Oh yeah I should have mentioned, pretty much all the complaining I do is directed at 1v1, so is the list. 3v3 has it's own set of problems but I don't play it much since my teammates ragequit DoW2 (</3).
Hey, I'm not the one that ruined this game's multiplayer.
Carnifexes are very expensive. There's no doubt. However, the tyranids are really good at not having an excessive upkeep.
Gaunts are free to reinforce for two commanders. The other commander preserves his forces by choosing his fights and turning situations into the worst possible through supreme ambush.
Just removing these upkeep reinforcement issues quickly puts nids ahead economically this way. Tonight, we played a random game and I drew Hive Tyrant. With brood nest, the amount of resources I spent reinforcing my troops was so pitiful, I had the ability to pump out three carnifexes without sacrificing any part of my original army.
Even late game, I have to keep my slugga squads up to full to tie things up, and for repairs.
I said this earlier in the thread and I play a good amount of Tyranids. Even what we have to reinforce is dirt cheap even without the free reinforcement offered.
I said this earlier in the thread and I play a good amount of Tyranids. Even what we have to reinforce is dirt cheap even without the free reinforcement offered.
Precisely. Warriors actually reinforce pretty cheaply. Funny enough, people think tac squads reinforce for a bunch, but they reinforce rather cheaply as well, percent wise.
Most very small squads like this reinforce very cheaply.
Corp.Shephard on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Oh yeah I should have mentioned, pretty much all the complaining I do is directed at 1v1, so is the list. 3v3 has it's own set of problems but I don't play it much since my teammates ragequit DoW2 (</3).
Also a lot of my problems with Zoanthropes are related to Ravener tunnels, since they negate their main disadvantage of being slow (slow here being relative of course, "slow" by tyranid standards is a Zoanthrope at max speed 4, compared to SM where all their infantry but Scouts are somewhere between 4 (Terminators) and 5 (tacs/ASM/heroes), with devastators falling in the middle at 4.5). Assuming we're talking about 1v1, Plasma Devs don't even compare to Zoanthropes. Having a shield, a vehicle stun and no setup time is massive 1v1, and furthermore the only time you can afford to deploy plasma devs against Tyranids is if they have a Hive Tyrant commander or you have a large map advantage and time to setup defenses, otherwise they're going to fall into a melee tarpit in the open or get spore mined in a building.
Fair enough.
FWIW, if the map has one of the super wide and tall buildings on it, you can put guys in that building and spores will never kill them because the reduced radius means they can't hit the guy at the top. Mind you, the Zoan can still shoot them and blow them out, but it's something.
Zoans tend to be the cornerstone of the army when they come out, btw. If they are forced to run, the rest of the army tends to disintegrate in the field IME. The melee mass loses too much on the way in against proper counter mass and can't do enough damage back without their Zoans. The ranged mass is all about attrition and control. None of their units aside from perhaps ranged Ravener brood deal considerable amounts of damage. They're mostly setup to let the Zoans work.
Gaunts are free to reinforce for two commanders. The other commander preserves his forces by choosing his fights and turning situations into the worst possible through supreme ambush.
Just removing these upkeep reinforcement issues quickly puts nids ahead economically this way. Tonight, we played a random game and I drew Hive Tyrant. With brood nest, the amount of resources I spent reinforcing my troops was so pitiful, I had the ability to pump out three carnifexes without sacrificing any part of my original army.
Erm, there's two different mechanics at work here. Nids tend to do okay at reinforcement costs so long as they manage to run their guys out of combat early enough to not lose most of the entire squad (sometimes easier said than done for the horms, tbh), but they get absolutely raped by upkeep. (God forbid you play Ravener and get caught by anything, though.) I get to 60pop veeeeery quickly in most games and it's rare that I don't have the least req gathered in the game for both sides.
So while you save on one, you have to work with less req overall.
I wish there was a way to cancel an unpack order - sometimes I'll be repositioning a plat, and the enemy will charge mid-right-click positioning... which leaves me in the awkward position of either letting my plat work by holding right-mouse down and not microing any of my other units, or moving my plat somewhere it doesn't need to go and therefore stopping its firing. Mashing S after letting go doesn't work, the turret just unpacks and repacks in the same spot.
I wish there was a way to cancel an unpack order - sometimes I'll be repositioning a plat, and the enemy will charge mid-right-click positioning... which leaves me in the awkward position of either letting my plat work by holding right-mouse down and not microing any of my other units, or moving my plat somewhere it doesn't need to go and therefore stopping its firing. Mashing S after letting go doesn't work, the turret just unpacks and repacks in the same spot.
Hit escape. It will deselect the unit and you can let go of the right mouse button without moving it.
I'm trying to get the hang of this [email protected] I'm playing Eldar / Warlock and I'm like 10 wins / 30 losses.
I feel like e-trash.
I usually have serious map dominance until mid T2, too. I usually harass their gen farm pretty nice and feel pretty confident. By late T2 though it falls apart...for example, SM eventually get enough Tactical Squads that I can't seem to maintain control. They fuck up my platforms with their missile launchers so supress is hard to come by, walkers are super fragile, my banshees seem to get creamed at that stage... I dunno maaaan .
I wish there was a way to cancel an unpack order - sometimes I'll be repositioning a plat, and the enemy will charge mid-right-click positioning... which leaves me in the awkward position of either letting my plat work by holding right-mouse down and not microing any of my other units, or moving my plat somewhere it doesn't need to go and therefore stopping its firing. Mashing S after letting go doesn't work, the turret just unpacks and repacks in the same spot.
Hit escape. It will deselect the unit and you can let go of the right mouse button without moving it.
Are there any sites out there you guys can recommend to me that cover the basics of multiplayer?
I've only ever played RTS games in single player and everything I read here makes me more afraid of trying online!
What race do you want to play?
I'm trying to find a good 'general' guide for you, but I don't think such a thing exist. All I'm finding are race-specific guides and, quite honestly, most of them look pretty bad.
Thanks Goomba, I shall have a look around that site again (without panicking about government monitoring)
Spectrum: I'm not really sure what race, I suppose SM for now as I've used them for the single player...?
Also, another thing... I've just realized my PC doesn't actually run the game that well when a lot is going on, is this going to affect my online much? Is the online more manic than the single player?
Ugh I just got done working on a problem set on crypto and number theory and proofs and I just wanted to play DoW tonight...It's so late and I have class in a couple of hours but damn it if I'm gonna play online for a bit if anyone wants to join up.
If you go over 30 for population, it reduces your requisition income.
So, if you have a large army, you're getting less req. On the other hand, if you have no army, or a small army, while your opponent has a large one, it allows you to make a comeback by building better units to counter his army.
Hmm. Reexamining that link, apparently your income is reduced for every unit regardless of your population? No wonder SM are so goddamned broken right now.
Man. The game really needs campaigns for the other races. I've learned to play Space Marines from the campaign, but when I try 1v1 vs AI as another race I just stare and have no idea what to do.
Echo on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Oh shit, a big melee blob headed this way! A perfect chance to use anti-grav grenade!
*Grav-gren issue ordered, cooldown starts, WSE starts his homotastic animation*
And then the chain knockdowns begin, the cooldown is still used, no grenade is thrown, but after a metric assload of knockdowns, out of the middle of this melee mob, I see my grenade fly out and land in the middle of nowhere.
I guess I should be thankful that it didn't just waste the energy and cooldown and that he was just so determined to throw that grenade that in the midst of getting agonizingly raped his only thought was "I must throw this grenade."
Of course, most of you stopped reading at "WSE" anyway.
the other thing:
This one was even in my favor and I found it to be BS.
in-house gimmicky 3v3 last night, eldar v orks, I throw down an eldrich storm and the ork does a select-all+retreat move really quickly. The BS part is that instead of retreating, they all just bunched up right where I called down the storm. Some of these orks actually went out of their way to get into the middle of this thing. I don't know what happened there, but shenanigans were called.
I'm also embarassed to admit I had no idea that it was free to switch between wargear of the same category/slot you already bought
Posts
Plasma Devs are conspicuously absent from Akira's list but I will chalk that up to the fact that he doesn't play much 3v3. Certain things are far more powerful in 3v3 than 1v1, and Plasma Devs are definitely one of those things. But zoanthropes are incredibly powerful, the ability to stun a vehicle and then kill it so quickly is just ridiculous. And they do indead do great damage to infantry, I have had to retreat many a horde from Zoans.
Mind you, since their AI is so piss poor sometimes and just looooooves to run up, it can be difficult to keep them out of direct combat. I guess that's one small advantage the setup teams get?
Plasma devs (and D-cannons) setting up on the right side of cap spire covered by base turrets and within range of the middle VP needs to go away. =/
Nope, not at all. If you direct your emplacement to fire at an enemy, even if it's in their firing arc, there's a large chance they'll start tearing down their weapon and may either run up to it and try to melee it or will turn slightly and set back up.
This usually happens if a squad member is leaving the firing arc or was already outside the firing arc. Or you accidentally clicked the ground nearby them. If someone start creeping out of the area, but you need to maintain your current arc, don't hesitate to hit "s" a few times.
That being said, sometimes they just like to unpack for no obvious reason. Those are the most annoying of times. Some can be avoided, if you have the time to watch em.
edit: I really don't have any diversity in my 1v1s. It's always SM and Eldar. goddamn.
It's also pretty bad how allied vehicles can run into a platform and redirect it. If it was a guard plat watching your team's gens or something, that can be...problematic if no one noticed. =/
Oh yeah I should have mentioned, pretty much all the complaining I do is directed at 1v1, so is the list. 3v3 has it's own set of problems but I don't play it much since my teammates ragequit DoW2 (</3).
Also a lot of my problems with Zoanthropes are related to Ravener tunnels, since they negate their main disadvantage of being slow (slow here being relative of course, "slow" by tyranid standards is a Zoanthrope at max speed 4, compared to SM where all their infantry but Scouts are somewhere between 4 (Terminators) and 5 (tacs/ASM/heroes), with devastators falling in the middle at 4.5). Assuming we're talking about 1v1, Plasma Devs don't even compare to Zoanthropes. Having a shield, a vehicle stun and no setup time is massive 1v1, and furthermore the only time you can afford to deploy plasma devs against Tyranids is if they have a Hive Tyrant commander or you have a large map advantage and time to setup defenses, otherwise they're going to fall into a melee tarpit in the open or get spore mined in a building.
Gaunts are free to reinforce for two commanders. The other commander preserves his forces by choosing his fights and turning situations into the worst possible through supreme ambush.
Just removing these upkeep reinforcement issues quickly puts nids ahead economically this way. Tonight, we played a random game and I drew Hive Tyrant. With brood nest, the amount of resources I spent reinforcing my troops was so pitiful, I had the ability to pump out three carnifexes without sacrificing any part of my original army.
Even late game, I have to keep my slugga squads up to full to tie things up, and for repairs.
Hey, I'm not the one that ruined this game's multiplayer.
I said this earlier in the thread and I play a good amount of Tyranids. Even what we have to reinforce is dirt cheap even without the free reinforcement offered.
If you play this game when you're feeling off at all, its game over for you.
Precisely. Warriors actually reinforce pretty cheaply. Funny enough, people think tac squads reinforce for a bunch, but they reinforce rather cheaply as well, percent wise.
Most very small squads like this reinforce very cheaply.
FWIW, if the map has one of the super wide and tall buildings on it, you can put guys in that building and spores will never kill them because the reduced radius means they can't hit the guy at the top. Mind you, the Zoan can still shoot them and blow them out, but it's something.
Zoans tend to be the cornerstone of the army when they come out, btw. If they are forced to run, the rest of the army tends to disintegrate in the field IME. The melee mass loses too much on the way in against proper counter mass and can't do enough damage back without their Zoans. The ranged mass is all about attrition and control. None of their units aside from perhaps ranged Ravener brood deal considerable amounts of damage. They're mostly setup to let the Zoans work.
Erm, there's two different mechanics at work here. Nids tend to do okay at reinforcement costs so long as they manage to run their guys out of combat early enough to not lose most of the entire squad (sometimes easier said than done for the horms, tbh), but they get absolutely raped by upkeep. (God forbid you play Ravener and get caught by anything, though.) I get to 60pop veeeeery quickly in most games and it's rare that I don't have the least req gathered in the game for both sides.
So while you save on one, you have to work with less req overall.
(Again, 3s only.)
Hit escape. It will deselect the unit and you can let go of the right mouse button without moving it.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Now I understand grenade spiking alot better.
https://medium.com/@alascii
I'm trying to get the hang of this [email protected] I'm playing Eldar / Warlock and I'm like 10 wins / 30 losses.
I feel like e-trash.
I usually have serious map dominance until mid T2, too. I usually harass their gen farm pretty nice and feel pretty confident. By late T2 though it falls apart...for example, SM eventually get enough Tactical Squads that I can't seem to maintain control. They fuck up my platforms with their missile launchers so supress is hard to come by, walkers are super fragile, my banshees seem to get creamed at that stage... I dunno maaaan
Of course you do.
You're playing Eldar.
That helps me a ton, thanks!
I've only ever played RTS games in single player and everything I read here makes me more afraid of trying online!
a good start would be 3v3. The pressure there is bareable.
https://medium.com/@alascii
I'm trying to find a good 'general' guide for you, but I don't think such a thing exist. All I'm finding are race-specific guides and, quite honestly, most of them look pretty bad.
Spectrum: I'm not really sure what race, I suppose SM for now as I've used them for the single player...?
Also, another thing... I've just realized my PC doesn't actually run the game that well when a lot is going on, is this going to affect my online much? Is the online more manic than the single player?
What kind of settings cause others to lag?
Mines running at the lowest it can I think
And seriously, any tips for Eldar vs mass Tactical squads?
http://dowcodex.com/Info:Upkeep
If you go over 30 for population, it reduces your requisition income.
So, if you have a large army, you're getting less req. On the other hand, if you have no army, or a small army, while your opponent has a large one, it allows you to make a comeback by building better units to counter his army.
Hmm. Reexamining that link, apparently your income is reduced for every unit regardless of your population? No wonder SM are so goddamned broken right now.
D-Cannons.
It works
Minced Tac Squad Spam!
Less = zero.
It's why tac spam is so hard to stop. They have more units than you, and more resources!
Whoo!
Oh shit, a big melee blob headed this way! A perfect chance to use anti-grav grenade!
*Grav-gren issue ordered, cooldown starts, WSE starts his homotastic animation*
And then the chain knockdowns begin, the cooldown is still used, no grenade is thrown, but after a metric assload of knockdowns, out of the middle of this melee mob, I see my grenade fly out and land in the middle of nowhere.
I guess I should be thankful that it didn't just waste the energy and cooldown and that he was just so determined to throw that grenade that in the midst of getting agonizingly raped his only thought was "I must throw this grenade."
Of course, most of you stopped reading at "WSE" anyway.
the other thing:
This one was even in my favor and I found it to be BS.
in-house gimmicky 3v3 last night, eldar v orks, I throw down an eldrich storm and the ork does a select-all+retreat move really quickly. The BS part is that instead of retreating, they all just bunched up right where I called down the storm. Some of these orks actually went out of their way to get into the middle of this thing. I don't know what happened there, but shenanigans were called.
I'm also embarassed to admit I had no idea that it was free to switch between wargear of the same category/slot you already bought