Rent and Friends!
Morticide83
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I'm currently renting an Apartment with a good friend of mine, and his girlfriend.
The way it's currently set is I have control over my own smaller room, a guest bathroom and a small 1 1/2 feet deep closet. They have control over the living room, the master bedroom which is close to 50% larger than my room, a walk in closet, and their private bathroom.
Currently we are splitting rent into 3 ways, and we are doing the same with utilities. So far, even though I'm getting a lot less control over the rooms, I'm okay with this. Rent total is 1600ish
Now to throw a wrench into things.
I'm currently getting rides to work to support my bills from my girlfriend, and since she lives a city away, to help save on gas I just have her stay in my room doing what ever when shes not working or at school, so she's here practically everyday.
My roommates are getting passive aggressive and hinting at forcing her to pay rent, thus making it 4 way payment. Only problem is she hardly works, as she is mainly doing school, and thus, I'd have to essentially pay her half of the rent, amounting to about 800 dollars for me, instead of the current 600.
Now, I'm %100 okay with going 4 ways on all the bills, since she does use electricity [Computer, tv] and water [Obvious stuff :P]
But I just can't justify how they can have full control over the master bedroom, and the living room/dining area, and pay less rent just because I'm doing what ever I want with the current living space I have [IE having my girlfriend stay in there]
They are not losing out on anything. My girlfriend doesn't eat their food, doesn't use the living room, and generally avoids them %100 of the time because she doesn't like to intrude. The only person who's losing out on space [IE What the rent is paying for] is ME, because I'm sharing a room with a second person. If transportation weren't such an issue me and her both wouldn't mind her not staying here, but as of now this is my only real option.
I personally am also a super shut in. I stay %95 in my room, unless they want to watch a movie together, otherwise I'm in my room. Which is why they decided to just do what ever they wanted with the living room, which is fine by me.
I just can't tell whos in the right or wrong on this. Any shred of advice is much appreciated!
The way it's currently set is I have control over my own smaller room, a guest bathroom and a small 1 1/2 feet deep closet. They have control over the living room, the master bedroom which is close to 50% larger than my room, a walk in closet, and their private bathroom.
Currently we are splitting rent into 3 ways, and we are doing the same with utilities. So far, even though I'm getting a lot less control over the rooms, I'm okay with this. Rent total is 1600ish
Now to throw a wrench into things.
I'm currently getting rides to work to support my bills from my girlfriend, and since she lives a city away, to help save on gas I just have her stay in my room doing what ever when shes not working or at school, so she's here practically everyday.
My roommates are getting passive aggressive and hinting at forcing her to pay rent, thus making it 4 way payment. Only problem is she hardly works, as she is mainly doing school, and thus, I'd have to essentially pay her half of the rent, amounting to about 800 dollars for me, instead of the current 600.
Now, I'm %100 okay with going 4 ways on all the bills, since she does use electricity [Computer, tv] and water [Obvious stuff :P]
But I just can't justify how they can have full control over the master bedroom, and the living room/dining area, and pay less rent just because I'm doing what ever I want with the current living space I have [IE having my girlfriend stay in there]
They are not losing out on anything. My girlfriend doesn't eat their food, doesn't use the living room, and generally avoids them %100 of the time because she doesn't like to intrude. The only person who's losing out on space [IE What the rent is paying for] is ME, because I'm sharing a room with a second person. If transportation weren't such an issue me and her both wouldn't mind her not staying here, but as of now this is my only real option.
I personally am also a super shut in. I stay %95 in my room, unless they want to watch a movie together, otherwise I'm in my room. Which is why they decided to just do what ever they wanted with the living room, which is fine by me.
I just can't tell whos in the right or wrong on this. Any shred of advice is much appreciated!
Morticide83 on
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When I say control I mean they have decorating veto over it. AKA They went out and bought their own furniture to put in there, and didn't bother asking me before hand :P. Everything in the room is theirs such as the entertainment system, the couches, the 3 fish tanks, the dining table, and it's all stuff only they use, unless they want to watch a movie with me or something
As someone who has been on the other end of your situation, you might think your girlfriend can't do no wrong (and maybe she doesn't), but if she is essentially living there - eating, sleeping, pooping, fucking - your housemates have the right to wonder why she isn't contributing. They aren't there to pay her rent.
Say if your housemates had a couple of friends staying in their room, would you expect the rental arrangements to change?
The idea of someone "owning" the living room is weird...as it seems it looks like you guys have a fair establishment. They get the bigger room but thats cause there are two of them.
"Rent" to me would cover the area that you're currently living in. If I'm paying for a 1 person room, why would I pay rent on as if it was a two person sized room?
Same if they were using their two person sized room for 3 people. I wouldn't expect them to pay for a room as if it was sized to hold 3 people. That just doesn't seem right to me.
For instance, when I lived with my father, he charged me rent for what he thought the room was worth. I let a friend live with me if he paid half of the rent. My father didn't magically raise the rent because another person was living in it. The only thing he raised was utility bills such as electricity and such.
So in this instance it would be the equivalent to our current renters increasing rent from 1600, to 2400 because 3 people were living in a two bedroom apartment. Which wouldn't make sense to me.
Like to add, in regards to my girlfriend doing no harm. She really doesn't, she doesn't eat the food, unless Its mine, and litterally does not leave my room, or bathroom area at all. Shes staying only in the areas that are in direct control from me. No neutral ground
She should pay rent.
It's pretty simple. Your housemates didn't ask her to move in with them, but if she's going to live there, she ought to cough up.
Maybe you could attempt to renegotiate the rent if you feel hard done by in your small room - not uncommon for people with larger rooms to pay a premium. I don't pay extra (for my modestly larger room) because I furnished the house.
edit: also, living with your father is quite different from living under a landlord with non-relatives
The only thing I can logically agree to her paying for is bills for electricity, water, garbage ..ect
Help me understand, please
They are not losing any space from this, so why should rent increase for me?
Rent: the amount paid by a hirer of personal property to the owner for the use thereof
That underlined part states pretty clearly my reasoning. I don't see why I should be charged for allowing another person to live in my personal space.
Legally renting an apartment works the same way, doesn't it? You can't get a one person apartment from a renter at a set amount, and have them charge you double because you're adding a roomie. Can they?
TL;DR
Why have her pay rent, when she should really only be paying utilities?
It seems like you roommates are annoyed that you and your girlfriend have decided to use the apartment as a rent-free crash pad, which is a pretty common complaint for people living with roommates.
This whole "control" issue seems really weird as well. The way I see things, there are three people living in the apartment, so rent should be split three ways. You're renting the whole apartment, not individual rooms, and you all have equal responsibilities. So far so good. But now your g/f is hanging out in the apartment basically every day. She's using the apartment—heck, she might be using it more than your roommates. I'm assuming here that she also spends at least a few nights there. That can get really annoying for the roommates, especially if she's not contributing anything. It's something you'll have to work out with your roommates, but they have an equal say in everything that happens in the apartment (really 2/3 say) so you need to figure out what they are comfortable with as far as your g/f staying there and abide by it.
I know, personally, I would not be cool with a roommates g/f being in the apartment when the roommate isn't there. That's my home. I don't want people who don't live there just hanging around all the time. It wouldn't really matter to me if she's hiding in your room all the time. Frankly, I wouldn't be comfortable knowing that she's there alone all the time, either.
Forget the "control" thing, that's not how rent works. Unless you are subletting just that room from your roommates.
They aren't losing personal space, but they may be losing a whole host of other things like that ability to relax and be comfortable in their home.
The master bed room for 2 people is theirs, and the living room is used by them most of the time for them or their friends, with no room for my to even think of putting my own stuff in there, same as the dining area.
And yet me and my girlfriend would have to pay rent as if we were getting the same amount of control as them?
You just said you don't give a shit about the common room because you're never in there and you're a shut in. The point is, you could use it if you wanted to.
If I had a roommate that was all "I use the common room this much less than you so my rent should be X less," I would first tell them to fuck themselves and second start looking for a new roommate. Unless you are claiming that you are barred from using any of the stuff in the common areas, you should be paying equal rent.
And stop talking about "control." It has nothing to do with anything. It's possibly the most passive-aggressive excuse for being cheap about rent I've ever heard. You're not paying for "control," you're paying for living space. The fact that your roommates furnished the entire common space is not something most people would be complaining about. Have you ever asked if you could decorate a wall yourself? Or contribute some furniture? I'm guessing no.
I don't understand where you're getting this "control" thing from. I'm sure if you had a discussion with your roommates they'd let you put some of your stuff in the living room.
You aren't getting the short end of the stick. Look at it this way. You have a bedroom. They have a bedroom (albeit bigger but that's life). You have a bathroom. They have a bathroom. You both have access to a common room. You both have access to a kitchen.
In short, everything is even. Then introduce the factor of you adding another person to the house. See how things suddenly become uneven?
Furthermore, if your girlfriend can more or less move in without paying a share of the rent, then your roommate's girlfriend can "move out" and your roommate can then pretty much use the same argument as you to justify her not having to pay a full share. If you wouldn't accept that, then you can't expect them to accept your current arrangement.
If it's that much easier for you and your girlfriend for her to spend all her time at your place, maybe you should just have her officially move in. If this is impossible due to lack of funds, then you need to talk to your roommates, tell them why she can't pay her share of rent, and then either come to an agreement about how much time she should be allowed to spend at the apartment or come up with a smaller rent figure that she can pay which doesn't break the bank.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I guess the thing that you're having trouble with is that it's not just sq feet/yards? = $X.YY when renting with others. IT's also common courtesy and consideration. If there's soeone else spending 50% or more of their time in the place, they should contribute because they are casuing stress on the other paying renters.
So far this has only been an issue once or twice because I mainly stick to my room. But I can hardly call that "fair" to be paying for a large part of the apartment that has %100 their things in it when they have control over who uses it and who doesn't.
Ninja edit:
Sorry, didn't respond to the above two posters as I was kind of slow on the refresh :P
Right there is the key.
So if you're watching your movie, and she comes in, you stop it and leave? Sounds like you guys need to put it in writting or you need to wo/man up. If his gf sits there huffing & rolling her eyes, you guys need to sort that shit out post-haste, because that's not how it works.
Regarding her friends - so you're bothered when she brings freinds over whenever she likes? How do you think she feels about your g/f staying longer, spending the night?
Something they would never have to worry about with my girlfriend. See where I'm going with this?
But it hasn't become a big issue as of yet because I don't use the common area a lot, so she's only kicked me out 2-3 times to use it for what ever her, or her and her friends wanted to do. But I've only personally used it 4-5 times and we've been here for 5 months.
Thats how little use I get out of it, and as you can see, the use I do get is usually cut because of her or her and her friends.
But I'm at a loss because I can't argue when everything is owned by them, and there is literally no room for anything I would want in there. It just feels like I'm losing out on the room, and it's something they "let" me use when ever they aren't using it.
I did move in with a guy (no, not like that) during my last year; was his house, and I got "control" of my bedroom, but everything else was shared. Pretty much only rule was clean up after yourself, and TV was his most Sundays - fucker loved NASCAR.
So you need to sit down with them and have a talk about this. If they chose to furnish the place, it doesn't automagically give them control.
I'm basically going to agree to a 4 way rent if the common area items that they have filling the whole damn room are shared 4 ways, or they get half of their crap out and allow me to put in my own TV/Sound system in there.
Thanks for everyone who answered. I'll post updates as to how the agreements worked out
Do you actually want half their stuff out of the way, or will you only be making this demand to make a point? If the latter, I'd advise against it because it'll make you look petty and vindictive.
That said, you and your girlfriend are entitled to that space, so if you actually need it then there's no reason you shouldn't be able to use it.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
A sharehouse is a cost saving exercise. You all chip in and you all get somewhere nice/convenient/affordable to live. You divvy up the space/proportion of rent. Done. If you bring another person into the cost saving exercise, why should they alone gain 100% of the benefits of everyone elses efforts?
She should pay rent. Is this your first sharehouse, by the way? Because I got arguments like this from cheapskate friends all the time when I first moved out of home.
How exactly did she kick you out? Did she tell you to leave? Or did you notice they wanted to watch a movie and then left on your own?
"My girlfriend is only in the room! She never comes out! She is quiet etc etc etc." The bottom line is she lived in the house without paying rent. If she were to live somewhere else not her parents she would be paying rent, period. I pay to live in the home with one other person at an agreed upon price and split of costs for utilities. Not to live with another person, who uses laundry services, refrigerator and freezer space, has dogs blah blah blah.
Also i partially agree you and your girlfriend paying half the rent would be a little much, so why not ask them to pro-rate it? If you are paying a third, how about a 60 40% split? it's as close to half and half without breaking your girlfriends bank.
Also she can get a part time job if needed, ain't shit in life free. Get used to it.
I don't use it much anymore. But I might as well start, since I'm essentially helping to pay for it. Its just hard when they think they have priority because of ownership.
Edit:
and yeah Nargo, I was looking for validation, as stated orginally and I obviously didn't get it. So I know I'm in the wrong on this. So I'm gonna to go with my above statement
If you are paying equal rent you have an equal right to use the furnishings in the common areas. It's not really all that clear that they are kicking you out when you're watching TV or whatever. If you've acquiesced in the past, they probably just expect you to continue doing so.
On the flipside, I can tell you from personal experience that living with a hermit who always has his girlfriend over isn't any bargain. It's a big pain in the ass, mostly.
A.) That rent goes four ways, and the common area and it's items is going to be used equally
B.) Rent stays 3 ways, my girlfriend stops staying over, and the common area is STILL going to be used equally.
C.) They say no to the common area sharing of items in A and B and I find a single apartment at 500-800 dollars rent and fly solo :P
Also, I'm not a a psycho hermit, its just when ever I am at the apartment, and not working or with my friends I'm inside my room working on something. I don't want anyone thinking I'm the total social shut-in who avoids all life :P
So his roommates get the bigger bedroom, a private bath and priority use of the living room. All Mort gets is the smaller bedroom and he has to share a bathroom with any guests that happen to be over. He also gets to use the living room, but only as long as the other roommates don't want to use it.
If Mort's girlfriend does end up paying rent, then the other couple should learn to share the living room more, and even then they still should have to pay more than 50% of the total rent since they've got the bigger bedroom. That seems fair to me. That way the common areas are actually common areas and they can pay rent based on square footage of the bedrooms. But if they're just wanting to keep everything the same but split the rent four equal ways, screw that.
Sounds good!
Try not to start a fight as it will just be counterproductive. For instance, in the situation above with the roommate, the appropriate response would be, "Do you mind if I finish what I was watching before you start your movie?" Obviously, if you just started Lord of the Rings, and she just walked in with a group of friends who want to watch their movie, it's probably easiest (and nicer) to let them do their thing and finish your movie another time. But if you're halfway through a TV show or something, they shouldn't have a problem waiting.
I live in a 2 bedroom apartment. My girlfriend and I are on the lease and a friend of ours is subbing out the second bedroom. My girlfriend and I share our bedroom and also have a (small, quarter-size) office. We split rent and utilities three ways because each of us has "control" over a bedroom, which is what we're really paying for, here, as the common rooms are shared though furnished with my stuff.
Now our friend recently picked himself up a wonderful lady-friend. Suffice to say she moved in. Now she's a student and everything in your situation, Morticide, seems to apply here. There was some grumbling about the utilities and rent payments before a formal agreement was come to.
What we decided was that we were, indeed, paying for bedroom (private) space. As my girlfriend and I have two rooms (bedroom and small, small office) we pay two shares while our friend and his girl, who only has the bedroom, pay the other one share. We split the utilities payments four ways.
Seriously, she shouldn't have to pay rent, but she should pay a share of the utilities. You're "renting" your space and she is not taking any additional space. The only tangible consumption she is making is the utilities.
It all depends on your friends and their attitude. I think your option "C" is best if your roommates can't come to a reasonable agreement. It's a more a question of "is it okay if my girlfriend stays with me in my room and pays her share of utilities?" than simply saying "more people = cheaper rent for everyone." The latter just sounds like they want free money, and by your description makes them out to be on the edge of taking advantage of you.
Seconded. Splitting the utils is a fair compremise in these situations. Since that's the only thing your gf is really "using" of theirs, aside from the slight inconvienience of having another body around.
Sounds like you got it under control - talk to them calmly and lay out the concerns. Don't get defensive, etc., just say, "I am having these issues...," "I would like to more clearly define the use of..."
Just to echo earlier comments, speak to them in person, try not to start a fight.
I would say that if your girl is going to stay there all the time (which is what it sounds like) then the rent should be changed around. The way I have always had it done is if you are two people sharing a room, then you pay more than if it was just one person, because that extra person does use space everywhere else too. I don't think it's unreasonable for your roommates to be upset that your girlfriend is there every night and they're still paying double what you are because she's just "staying over."
But this is the rub: While the other couple have a room 150% the size of the OP's room, they're paying for their private space and not for "full use of the home, regardless." I can see a situation in which every party receives a separate room justifying rent split four ways this is simply not the case.
The couple pay double because they have more private space and maintain the home as a whole as a home.
If this is going to be a workable situation is the real question. I still think the OP getting his own place is probably the best bet if there are any issues.
Hahaha oh my god, this is the worst idea ever.
Seriously, you do not want to create that kind of power dynamic where one of the roommates is your cleaning lady.
EDIT: Here's how I would split up the rent if you were doing that:
If your rent is 1600, right now it's split 3 ways, so you pay $533 and they pay $1066 in total, right?
Their room is bigger, so you shouldn't just split it both ways. I would probably go for $100-$150 increase in your rent and decrease in theirs, so you and the girl paying $650 or $700 and they pay $950 or $900. If you wanted to split it exactly so that each party pays based on the size of their room it would be 2/5 for you 3/5 for them, so $640 for you/girl $960 for them.
The Crowing One, I'm not sure what you mean by "maintain the home as a whole as a home," the OP also uses that common space and the fact that it's his roommates' TV and couch or whatever doesn't matter.
I don't know about you, but my lease has a definite clause about how long people are allowed to stay over. If everyone is ok with how things are going this isn't going to come up and isn't enforced, but if your lease specifically says you can't have people staying over for longer than X nights then it's going to be kind of hard for you to argue with your roomies.
The sharing utilities but not rent could work, but as someone said earlier you need to consider the non-space issues that having another body around might create.
For example, part of signing up to live with other people is knowing that you're going to have time when the other people aren't around or are asleep and you can relax and do whatever you want to do (have sex, cook in the buff, whatever). You mentioned that your girlfriend is around when you aren't, and that she's there a lot because she isn't working and is taking classes. That could represent a loss in privacy for your roomies of 8 hours or so that they had before. Suddenly instead of having time during the day where they can let it all hang out, now they have to behave the entire time which might be a reason for them getting upset.
Another thing might be a trust issue, I know I wouldn't want an unescorted guest hanging around my apartment who wasn't on the lease and that I didn't know--particularly if they might be there when I'm not. You've seen some of the other posts in H/A, you never really know if your roomie's "friend" is going to steal your stuff because it turns out he/she is a psycho, and that can be stressful.
One thing you should do if it does come down to you splitting the rent 4 ways: try to get your gf signed up on the lease so that everything is kosher. You don't want her to be paying part of the rent and for your roomies to get pissed and go to the landlord and get her thrown out.
Why? She'd get to stay there rent free. As soon as she stops holding up her end, she's out or the rent goes up. I don't see the problem. I've known people to have this arrangement and it work fine. The expectations just have to be laid out up front.
This type of arrangement works great if everyone has about the same cleanliness requirement level and are able to communicate as adults. However in other non idyllic scenarios this can lead to a lot of passive aggressive bitterness between room mates/friends.
If the cleaning person has a higher cleaning requirement level than the others they will possibly feel disrespected when for instance someone who takes there shoes off just kind of kicks them off as opposed to lining them up and making sure no mud/dirt gets on the carpet.
If the other room mates have a higher cleanliness requirement than the cleaning person, they might nitpick and feel slighted themselves when for instance a counter is not wiped down after a cup of water leaves a ring.
This rarely works out well in medium/long term.
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ALso, re their bigger room, they're splitting it - they have "half" of a big room, you have a whole smaller room.
Re the common area: You're being gutless and passive aggressive about the common area.
Re the split: So much of the property is actually common in a house that dickering about the square footage of the bedrooms is really something you should only do if the inequality is truly gross.
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