The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

Music Notation Question

Eggplant WizardEggplant Wizard Little Rock, ARRegistered User regular
edited April 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
In roman numeral notation for chords, assuming a major key, what type of chord is the I7? Is it a maj7 chord?

To state it another way, how does one determine the major/minor character of the 7?
I've seen some publications call for a "diatonic unless otherwise noted" convention. In this system, I7 is a maj7 chord, but V7 is a dominant 7 chord. Other publications seem to use a "dominant unless otherwise noted" convention, similar to performance notation, in which case both are dominant 7 chords.

Is it simply not well standardized?

Hello
Eggplant Wizard on

Posts

  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    In roman numeral notation for chords, assuming a major key, what type of chord is the I7? Is it a maj7 chord?

    To state it another way, how does one determine the major/minor character of the 7?
    I've seen some publications call for a "diatonic unless otherwise noted" convention. In this system, I7 is a maj7 chord, but V7 is a dominant 7 chord. Other publications seem to use a "dominant unless otherwise noted" convention, similar to performance notation, in which case both are dominant 7 chords.

    Is it simply not well standardized?

    I would say go by the standards of whatever publisher you're looking at. Failing that, I would assume it would be a major 7 instead of a minor, since in the scope of the scale you have to change the note to make it dominant as opposed to major, and so it would theoretically be the notation's job to tell you.

    If you are writing the piece, well just make sure that it is clear to your audience. If you are reading the piece, and really can't decide and there's no standard for the publisher, then just try both and play the one you like better, or listen to a few recordings of the piece and see which one gets played or doesn't.

    To answer the question in general though, I'd say it's a major 7 unless otherwise noted, theoretically.

    Rend on
  • IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, it kinda depends on what material you're reading. Jazz always notes a major 7 as Imaj7 or something like that, and the dominant 7 and V7.

    Try playing it and see what it sounds like, and also, look for raised or lowered 7th degrees of the scale around in the melody.

    Icemopper on
  • Eggplant WizardEggplant Wizard Little Rock, ARRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's more of an academic question, I guess. I've been doing some armchair harmonic analysis lately.

    When I see something like I7 followed by IV, my gut tells me that's it probably a dominant 7, but I've seen some sources which contradict.

    The vibe I'm betting from your replies (which are much appreciated) is that it really depends on the author.

    Eggplant Wizard on
    Hello
  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    If you told me I7 I would think dominant but I'm a jazz player so take what you will from that.

    Space Pickle on
  • Vater5BVater5B Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    A numeral with a 7 after it is a dominant seven chord always. I decided to double check all three of my theory texts to make sure I was right and all of them say the same thing.

    IM7 = MM7
    I7 = Mm7
    i7 = m7
    iø7= ø7
    iº7= º7

    Vater5B on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I stand corrected!

    Rend on
  • OneVoiceOneVoice Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Vater5B wrote: »
    A numeral with a 7 after it is a dominant seven chord always. I decided to double check all three of my theory texts to make sure I was right and all of them say the same thing.

    IM7 = MM7
    I7 = Mm7
    i7 = m7
    iø7= ø7
    iº7= º7

    Very much correct in the standard practice sense. Just be careful if you're working with forms of music that do not use standard notation. (I once threw my theory book at my first semester class analysis partner, who was a self-taught guitar student, for making me use a piece for our project that was about three years beyond our level "because it looked cool on the page." But it was only a workbook. Didn't even give him a paper cut.)

    OneVoice on
    He who laughs last is usually slowest on the uptake.
  • PartialartistPartialartist Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, the way I've learned it, the 3 is assumed to be major and the 7 is assumed to be minor, unless noted otherwise. Also, depending on the style, the roman numerals may or may not contain lowercase symbols. Instead of viiø7, you could have VII-7b5. There are several ways to write the same chord.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_symbol

    Partialartist on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]PSN : TheIdiomatic
Sign In or Register to comment.