on a completely unrelated topic, scrolling through the SE++ Kim thread and coming across a guy in what appears to be bondage gear, I've really got to ask, should I just consider the entire subforum NSFW or what? cause there was also that time I came across one MS Paint thread to discover a myriad of MS Paint genitalia, and I honestly don't know if I can surf SE++ on campus at this point.
I'll tag the paint thread, can you like me to the bondage thing and I'll take care of it.
on a completely unrelated topic, scrolling through the SE++ Kim thread and coming across a guy in what appears to be bondage gear, I've really got to ask, should I just consider the entire subforum NSFW or what? cause there was also that time I came across one MS Paint thread to discover a myriad of MS Paint genitalia, and I honestly don't know if I can surf SE++ on campus at this point.
I'll tag the paint thread, can you like me to the bondage thing and I'll take care of it.
oh, I guess that's kind of bondage gear. It's not hardcore nsfw though I shouldn't think. Anyway, no, SE is not a NSFW forum, you should be able to surf there from work.
Here's another example that I can vaguely remember.
When the second "mafia" G&T thread started up, if anyone posted in it before the game started out of character, Casket and others would pretend to kill ther person and make fun of them out of character. Myself and a few others were totally put off of the thread because of this, and never ended up participating in them again.
I don't really understand why specific evidence of examples is required to discuss this problem - plenty of people see it happenning, so maybe we can at least examine why they feel that way and if there's any reasonable way to legislate it.
Here's another example that I can vaguely remember.
When the second "mafia" G&T thread started up, if anyone posted in it before the game started out of character, Casket and others would pretend to kill ther person and make fun of them out of character. Myself and a few others were totally put off of the thread because of this, and never ended up participating in them again.
I don't really understand why specific evidence of examples is required to discuss this problem - plenty of people see it happenning, so maybe we can at least examine why they feel that way and if there's any reasonable way to legislate it.
Casket is a giant fucking tool and should be mocked openly.
I'm generally a fan of solving problems without legislature where possible.
Me too. Any suggestions? I know that losing the megathreads was a step in this direction, but it had to be legislated. Maybe we can come up with something better.
I'm generally a fan of solving problems without legislature where possible.
Me too. Any suggestions? I know that losing the megathreads was a step in this direction, but it had to be legislated. Maybe we can come up with something better.
I think a good start is for more mature members of the community to set a good example. I mean, I saw someone say "why would you go into ____ game thread and say you don't like it, that's stupid", but I think it's valid discussion. If some guy doesn't like Dark Messiah and he comes into the DM thread saying so, it's more interesting for the forumers to talk about it than to say "you're retarded" or "shut the fuck up DM is great"
I purposely chose a smaller scale game, because it illustrates how silly it is to do that. If you then apply that to games more likely to attract fanboys, such as say, Halo, or even the Wii, it's still ridiculous. This is a games discussion forum, and if people say something negative about a game it should be fucking discussed, without supposed adults screaming like monkeys.
But to be honest at this point I have no idea how to make some of the more vocal forumers act like adults.
The problem is that there isn't a lot of recourse to the moderators that isn't legislative.
What can you really do, besides threaten someone with jailing/banning or just jailing/banning them? Leading by example is an awesome start, but it doesn't do anything to proactively solve the problem.
While I agree that legislative action is pretty much a last resort, I worry that it's the only real answer to the problem at hand.
Call these things to a mod's attention as they happen if it bothers you. I think that's all that can be done, really. "Don't flame the fuck out of someone for no good reason" should be a rather well-understood rule as it is.
To be honest, I think the legislation is already there, it's just enforcement that's lacking. Calling you a stumpfucking cuntbucket for whatever is pretty obviously against the grain of an on topic forum, so next time it happens tell a mod. The mod doesn't (shouldn't) need to get ban happy, just come in and tell people to knock it off. People who can't grasp this after being warned can then be disciplined in other ways.
Call these things to a mod's attention as they happen if it bothers you. I think that's all that can be done, really. "Don't flame the fuck out of someone for no good reason" should be a rather well-understood rule as it is.
Call these things to a mod's attention as they happen if it bothers you. I think that's all that can be done, really. "Don't flame the fuck out of someone for no good reason" should be a rather well-understood rule as it is.
Unfortunately, as in the case of the usage of the word "faggot", I think more credibility is leant to the people who are flaming than the ones being flamed. If allowed to self-define a context for their actions to justify them, pretty much anyone can get away with being an asshole - "no good reason" isn't soild enough for some people, and it just leads to more disputes with moderators over what is and isn't a good reason.
I do have a question, is the PS3 thread going to go down at the same time as the other two megathreads that are up right now? I mean, it hasn't even launched in Europe yet. Not that it really matters too much, but for a sense of fairness.
I do have a question, is the PS3 thread going to go down at the same time as the other two megathreads that are up right now? I mean, it hasn't even launched in Europe yet. Not that it really matters too much, but for a sense of fairness.
I do have a question, is the PS3 thread going to go down at the same time as the other two megathreads that are up right now? I mean, it hasn't even launched in Europe yet. Not that it really matters too much, but for a sense of fairness.
I believe consensus is they're all ending on January the 1st.
I do have a question, is the PS3 thread going to go down at the same time as the other two megathreads that are up right now? I mean, it hasn't even launched in Europe yet. Not that it really matters too much, but for a sense of fairness.
I'm sure there will be a "European PS3 launch" thread much like there's a "Europe Wii launch" thread.
I do have a question, is the PS3 thread going to go down at the same time as the other two megathreads that are up right now? I mean, it hasn't even launched in Europe yet. Not that it really matters too much, but for a sense of fairness.
I believe consensus is they're all ending on January the 1st.
That is what I thought, oh well. What's a few less months talking about how big a failure the PS3 is, you know, the old tired yarn about it being over priced, Blu-ray being pointless, launch games sucking, and not being able to find one. I wonder where all that posting energy will go?
I do have a question, is the PS3 thread going to go down at the same time as the other two megathreads that are up right now? I mean, it hasn't even launched in Europe yet. Not that it really matters too much, but for a sense of fairness.
I believe consensus is they're all ending on January the 1st.
Not just consensus, the "rule" is posted in G&T.
Sorry, Europe, Sony fucked you. There will be plenty of PS3 threads for the games and hardware and US $599 and whatnot. I don't doubt someone will even start a PS3 for Europe thread which will talk about your lovely games in multiple languages and whatnot. If it is a European PS3 thread, though, it isn't likely to be very mega.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited December 2006
Something needs to happen big-time in G&T, which goes back to the mods getting involved with the community and leading by example. We're on the topic of people expressing unpopular opinions, and in some cases saying things that don't need to be said.
What we need is a promotion on integrity. Yes, it is a good thing to have. There is a fundamental difference of going into a thread discussing a game when saying, "This game sucks" and "I didn't care of this game, because (reasoning)." This has been said before.
A huge problem people have when expressing their opinion is tact. This also applies to being on the receiving end of an opinion that clashes with yours. I'll put out some examples.
While it can be considered unwise to step into a Zelda thread and share that you don't like the game, as long as you can back it up there shouldn't be any problem. While it falls on the responsibility of the person speaking negatively to put his opinion forth in a reasonable manner, it falls on the responsibility of the readers to take it in stride.
Something people need to realize is that there is a part of opinion that you can't argue against whatsoever - Personal taste/sentiment. If someone just so happens to not like an aspect of a game, it doesn't do any good to have a "you can't NOT like it, it's good!" attitude. This is the most frustrating form of opinion to put up with, for damned sure. Even I fall prey to it.
When going on to issues of a moral standing, for example the recent death that has been discusses, people again need to have some tact. The best way to go about this would be that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. We could go on and on about how someone may have been correct about survival training, and how it could have been worded differently, but there needs to be a general understanding of what can prevent drama episodes like this.
If someone were to make a thread grieving the loss of someone or something, chances are that it would be unwise to go in with negative things to say. Teaching morality to people, however, is beyond our or anyone's scope. But we can certainly keep the shit from happening.
While it certainly isn't our place to force people on how they speak, reinforcing positive manners isn't a bad thing. It's a skill, of sorts. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Be able to back up what your stance is, popular or unpopular.
Again, this goes back to the mods leading by example. Being a snarky asshole isn't going to reinforce having quality discussion, unless of course the joking is blatent (let's avoid the "it was a joke" excuse when one is pinned though) (nor am I pointing fingers with the "snarky asshole" comment). If one should wish a community to be one way, one should embody that belief or creed or what have you.
Well, would it be such a bad thing to allow multiple threads running on the same game from time to time? Perhaps only when a big launch hits, let's say Halo 5. Halo 5 hits, and a huge thread is there with people playing and loving the game. They are especially thrilled with the fact that it's in 3D.
Bill, on the other hand, has a glass eye and can't enjoy the 3D and feels that other areas of the game are lacking. However, the Halo 5 thread is just going apenuts over how great it is and he knows that it won't really welcome his criticism.
Why can't he make a "Welcome to the Halo 5 Discussino Thread" where he starts a discussion on the weaknesses of the game? I mean, as long as it's constructive criticism just like any other thread could that be allowed? Obviously it would only be needed for certain games anyways where the fanbase simply may not allow a rational discussion to occur.
I think if the fanbase won't allow a rational discussion to occur, they shouldn't be coddled, but rather told to fuck off. It's a discussion forum, they can ship the fuck out if they won't behave.
Well, would it be such a bad thing to allow multiple threads running on the same game from time to time? Perhaps only when a big launch hits, let's say Halo 5. Halo 5 hits, and a huge thread is there with people playing and loving the game. They are especially thrilled with the fact that it's in 3D.
Bill, on the other hand, has a glass eye and can't enjoy the 3D and feels that other areas of the game are lacking. However, the Halo 5 thread is just going apenuts over how great it is and he knows that it won't really welcome his criticism.
Why can't he make a "Welcome to the Halo 5 Discussino Thread" where he starts a discussion on the weaknesses of the game? I mean, as long as it's constructive criticism just like any other thread could that be allowed? Obviously it would only be needed for certain games anyways where the fanbase simply may not allow a rational discussion to occur.
This happend before with Animal Crossing. One board for tha actual business of the game, another talking about the game. Went on that way for a few weeks.
I'm generally a fan of solving problems without legislature where possible.
Me too. Any suggestions? I know that losing the megathreads was a step in this direction, but it had to be legislated. Maybe we can come up with something better.
I think a good start is for more mature members of the community to set a good example. I mean, I saw someone say "why would you go into ____ game thread and say you don't like it, that's stupid", but I think it's valid discussion. If some guy doesn't like Dark Messiah and he comes into the DM thread saying so, it's more interesting for the forumers to talk about it than to say "you're retarded" or "shut the fuck up DM is great"
It's the difference between going into a thread and saying "god, this sucks, how can anybody even play this?" and "I really didn't like this game, and here's why." It does suck that people with popular opinions are allowed to express them half-assedly in monosyllabic grunts, but they should honestly be challenged and mocked (and/or guided to the rules of debate and a dictionary depending on your whim) as much as the people with dissenting opinions.
I can't really recall anybody being eloquent and making well reasoned arguments ever being flamed or called retarded. I realize the personal example is a poor debate choice, but I often express my distaste for certain popular games that pop up again and again and I've never gotten into any serious arguments with people over them. About 5 seconds of thought and word choice goes a hell of a lot farther than gettiny snippy because you aren't allowed the same freedom to not think as those you're disagreeing with.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think if the fanbase won't allow a rational discussion to occur, they shouldn't be coddled, but rather told to fuck off. It's a discussion forum, they can ship the fuck out if they won't behave.
I think if the fanbase won't allow a rational discussion to occur, they shouldn't be coddled, but rather told to fuck off. It's a discussion forum, they can ship the fuck out if they won't behave.
Yeah, it is a two-way road.
I agree, but the problem is that most of us really aren't that keen on breaking into a 30 page love fest on a game to try to push for a decent conversation. Therefore, we likely will still end up with a bunch of "I love this too" threads on anything popular "I hate this too" threads on crap and the only good discussions will occur in threads on mediocre games. But truthfully, I doubt it's a cycle that can be broken.
People are overly suspicious here, which leads to the "fuck you get out" mentality. They are suspicious of lying (as evidenced by the anti-Rankenphile stuff in the Wii thread - he was actually posting positive comments about the Wii) and they are suspicious of people trolling instead of merely disagreeing.
Even if they don't drop the T-word, it is often obvious that people with a dissenting opinion are often regarded as trolls.
CT and defrag have pretty much echoed my own thoughts on the situation and my opinion on how it *should* be. If you want to have an appreciative circle-jerk, then label the thread as such. Anything else should be discussion, by default. And 97% of the threads should be discussion threads, not appreciation threads.
As personal point, I came across this in the Okami thread. I had maybe a dozen posts over the course of the first 50 some pages of the thread. I thought the game was fine, but pointed out some flaws. I wanted to talk about those flaws, see if I was looking at that part of the game wrong, and just talk about a game I was playing. However, I was accused of spamming the thread with negative comments, people asking why I was bothering to post if I hated the game so much, and generally being slightly harassed for not even having a resoundingly negative viewpoint, just pointing out that Okami wasn't the greatest game ever.
That vibe coming from G&T makes me not want to post very often. I have thick skin, I can take some random flaming, but it sure doesn't make me want to post in there ever. It seems to be agree with the consensus, or don't bother posting. It'll either be ignored or you'll be accused of ruining everyone else's fun.
I'm not suggesting mod intervention, but it's that sort of attitude in the community, not Megathreads or too many poll threads, that keep people away from G&T. It's an exclusive club where outside opinions aren't welcome. You'd best love Nintendo, Ico, Planescape Torment, Trauma Center, Contact, and a whole slew of niche games, or you don't fit in. I rarely agree with the general consensus here and would love to talk about it, but the few times I try, there seems to be no point. People can't understand why Game X is so underappreciated, but they won't listen to people who don't think the game is very good. For a board that looks disparagingly at GameFAQs, it's often not much better.
Well, the english skills are better.
So I usually just lurk. Which I'm fine with. I only posted all of this to give the perspective of somebody who can't be bothered to post in G&T because of the clique atmosphere.
For the record, D&D is good. Sure, if you take the conservative side, they'll probably make stupid jokes for a page and a half at your expense, but they'll eventually simmer down and discussion will resume.
As personal point, I came across this in the Okami thread. I had maybe a dozen posts over the course of the first 50 some pages of the thread. I thought the game was fine, but pointed out some flaws. I wanted to talk about those flaws, see if I was looking at that part of the game wrong, and just talk about a game I was playing. However, I was accused of spamming the thread with negative comments, people asking why I was bothering to post if I hated the game so much, and generally being slightly harassed for not even having a resoundingly negative viewpoint, just pointing out that Okami wasn't the greatest game ever.
That vibe coming from G&T makes me not want to post very often. I have thick skin, I can take some random flaming, but it sure doesn't make me want to post in there ever. It seems to be agree with the consensus, or don't bother posting. It'll either be ignored or you'll be accused of ruining everyone else's fun.
In the interest of accuracy, and since I'm bored to death right now...
You made two posts in the Okami thread that people responded negatively to... out of about 10-15 or so altogether.
Funnily, one of those responses was from Defrag, but honestly, that was basically just a sarcastic quip and a rolleyes directed at a lot of people. The other one, only Alucard(some-number) responded to, and someone immediately made fun of him for it. Alucard has also been banned in the past for trolling so... I'm not really certain how he became indicative of the forum as a whole.
As personal point, I came across this in the Okami thread. I had maybe a dozen posts over the course of the first 50 some pages of the thread. I thought the game was fine, but pointed out some flaws. I wanted to talk about those flaws, see if I was looking at that part of the game wrong, and just talk about a game I was playing. However, I was accused of spamming the thread with negative comments, people asking why I was bothering to post if I hated the game so much, and generally being slightly harassed for not even having a resoundingly negative viewpoint, just pointing out that Okami wasn't the greatest game ever.
That vibe coming from G&T makes me not want to post very often. I have thick skin, I can take some random flaming, but it sure doesn't make me want to post in there ever. It seems to be agree with the consensus, or don't bother posting. It'll either be ignored or you'll be accused of ruining everyone else's fun.
I'm not suggesting mod intervention, but it's that sort of attitude in the community, not Megathreads or too many poll threads, that keep people away from G&T. It's an exclusive club where outside opinions aren't welcome. You'd best love Nintendo, Ico, Planescape Torment, Trauma Center, Contact, and a whole slew of niche games, or you don't fit in. I rarely agree with the general consensus here and would love to talk about it, but the few times I try, there seems to be no point. People can't understand why Game X is so underappreciated, but they won't listen to people who don't think the game is very good. For a board that looks disparagingly at GameFAQs, it's often not much better.
Well, the english skills are better.
So I usually just lurk. Which I'm fine with. I only posted all of this to give the perspective of somebody who can't be bothered to post in G&T because of the clique atmosphere.
For the record, D&D is good. Sure, if you take the conservative side, they'll probably make stupid jokes for a page and a half at your expense, but they'll eventually simmer down and discussion will resume.
technically, wouldn't the phenomena be clubs, as I quite certain that these do not always involve the same people each time.
perhaps this is just the type of gamer Penny Arcade attracts for the most part?
Well, I'm not trying to make this into a big deal. That was my personal experience, and I feel like I've seen it elsewhere. Aside from a couple extremely prolific posters, I don't really know who's representative of the forum or anything. That's just my personal experience, and it was about the only time I've posted somewhat frequently in G&T, so it left an negative impression. I'm not expecting any change, these are forums after all, I'm just putting out a perspective that I'm not sure gets heard often.
Well, I'm not trying to make this into a big deal. That was my personal experience, and I feel like I've seen it elsewhere. Aside from a couple extremely prolific posters, I don't really know who's representative of the forum or anything. That's just my personal experience, and it was about the only time I've posted somewhat frequently in G&T, so it left an negative impression. I'm not expecting any change, these are forums after all, I'm just putting out a perspective that I'm not sure gets heard often.
I think it may be that certain games attract certain types of people. Take the Knights of the Nine thread for Oblivion, for example. Most of the comments have been less than "omg teh maxxest bestest" and the thread really hasn't suffered for it. Granted, Tube is a regular poster there and people walk in fear of his wrath, but that hasn't stopped people from disagreeing with him in an articulate fashion. It could also be that the KotN content is less than expected, but I wouldn't know. I haven't had a chance to pick it up yet. In which case, I would be cherry-picking over threads, and then I'd need to apologize. I still think my hypothesis stands.
Posts
I'll tag the paint thread, can you like me to the bondage thing and I'll take care of it.
no the entire forum is not nsfw
It only takes a few total wankers to ruin a forum. EG: Mad_Morlock single handedly killed D&D for several weeks.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=25145374#25145374
unless I just have a really loose definition of "bondage gear"
When the second "mafia" G&T thread started up, if anyone posted in it before the game started out of character, Casket and others would pretend to kill ther person and make fun of them out of character. Myself and a few others were totally put off of the thread because of this, and never ended up participating in them again.
I don't really understand why specific evidence of examples is required to discuss this problem - plenty of people see it happenning, so maybe we can at least examine why they feel that way and if there's any reasonable way to legislate it.
Me too. Any suggestions? I know that losing the megathreads was a step in this direction, but it had to be legislated. Maybe we can come up with something better.
I think a good start is for more mature members of the community to set a good example. I mean, I saw someone say "why would you go into ____ game thread and say you don't like it, that's stupid", but I think it's valid discussion. If some guy doesn't like Dark Messiah and he comes into the DM thread saying so, it's more interesting for the forumers to talk about it than to say "you're retarded" or "shut the fuck up DM is great"
I purposely chose a smaller scale game, because it illustrates how silly it is to do that. If you then apply that to games more likely to attract fanboys, such as say, Halo, or even the Wii, it's still ridiculous. This is a games discussion forum, and if people say something negative about a game it should be fucking discussed, without supposed adults screaming like monkeys.
But to be honest at this point I have no idea how to make some of the more vocal forumers act like adults.
What can you really do, besides threaten someone with jailing/banning or just jailing/banning them? Leading by example is an awesome start, but it doesn't do anything to proactively solve the problem.
While I agree that legislative action is pretty much a last resort, I worry that it's the only real answer to the problem at hand.
Unfortunately, as in the case of the usage of the word "faggot", I think more credibility is leant to the people who are flaming than the ones being flamed. If allowed to self-define a context for their actions to justify them, pretty much anyone can get away with being an asshole - "no good reason" isn't soild enough for some people, and it just leads to more disputes with moderators over what is and isn't a good reason.
Fairness to whom, exactly? Non-europeans?
I believe consensus is they're all ending on January the 1st.
I'm sure there will be a "European PS3 launch" thread much like there's a "Europe Wii launch" thread.
That is what I thought, oh well. What's a few less months talking about how big a failure the PS3 is, you know, the old tired yarn about it being over priced, Blu-ray being pointless, launch games sucking, and not being able to find one. I wonder where all that posting energy will go?
Not just consensus, the "rule" is posted in G&T.
Sorry, Europe, Sony fucked you. There will be plenty of PS3 threads for the games and hardware and US $599 and whatnot. I don't doubt someone will even start a PS3 for Europe thread which will talk about your lovely games in multiple languages and whatnot. If it is a European PS3 thread, though, it isn't likely to be very mega.
What we need is a promotion on integrity. Yes, it is a good thing to have. There is a fundamental difference of going into a thread discussing a game when saying, "This game sucks" and "I didn't care of this game, because (reasoning)." This has been said before.
A huge problem people have when expressing their opinion is tact. This also applies to being on the receiving end of an opinion that clashes with yours. I'll put out some examples.
While it can be considered unwise to step into a Zelda thread and share that you don't like the game, as long as you can back it up there shouldn't be any problem. While it falls on the responsibility of the person speaking negatively to put his opinion forth in a reasonable manner, it falls on the responsibility of the readers to take it in stride.
Something people need to realize is that there is a part of opinion that you can't argue against whatsoever - Personal taste/sentiment. If someone just so happens to not like an aspect of a game, it doesn't do any good to have a "you can't NOT like it, it's good!" attitude. This is the most frustrating form of opinion to put up with, for damned sure. Even I fall prey to it.
When going on to issues of a moral standing, for example the recent death that has been discusses, people again need to have some tact. The best way to go about this would be that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. We could go on and on about how someone may have been correct about survival training, and how it could have been worded differently, but there needs to be a general understanding of what can prevent drama episodes like this.
If someone were to make a thread grieving the loss of someone or something, chances are that it would be unwise to go in with negative things to say. Teaching morality to people, however, is beyond our or anyone's scope. But we can certainly keep the shit from happening.
While it certainly isn't our place to force people on how they speak, reinforcing positive manners isn't a bad thing. It's a skill, of sorts. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Be able to back up what your stance is, popular or unpopular.
Again, this goes back to the mods leading by example. Being a snarky asshole isn't going to reinforce having quality discussion, unless of course the joking is blatent (let's avoid the "it was a joke" excuse when one is pinned though) (nor am I pointing fingers with the "snarky asshole" comment). If one should wish a community to be one way, one should embody that belief or creed or what have you.
Bill, on the other hand, has a glass eye and can't enjoy the 3D and feels that other areas of the game are lacking. However, the Halo 5 thread is just going apenuts over how great it is and he knows that it won't really welcome his criticism.
Why can't he make a "Welcome to the Halo 5 Discussino Thread" where he starts a discussion on the weaknesses of the game? I mean, as long as it's constructive criticism just like any other thread could that be allowed? Obviously it would only be needed for certain games anyways where the fanbase simply may not allow a rational discussion to occur.
This happend before with Animal Crossing. One board for tha actual business of the game, another talking about the game. Went on that way for a few weeks.
It's the difference between going into a thread and saying "god, this sucks, how can anybody even play this?" and "I really didn't like this game, and here's why." It does suck that people with popular opinions are allowed to express them half-assedly in monosyllabic grunts, but they should honestly be challenged and mocked (and/or guided to the rules of debate and a dictionary depending on your whim) as much as the people with dissenting opinions.
I can't really recall anybody being eloquent and making well reasoned arguments ever being flamed or called retarded. I realize the personal example is a poor debate choice, but I often express my distaste for certain popular games that pop up again and again and I've never gotten into any serious arguments with people over them. About 5 seconds of thought and word choice goes a hell of a lot farther than gettiny snippy because you aren't allowed the same freedom to not think as those you're disagreeing with.
I agree, but the problem is that most of us really aren't that keen on breaking into a 30 page love fest on a game to try to push for a decent conversation. Therefore, we likely will still end up with a bunch of "I love this too" threads on anything popular "I hate this too" threads on crap and the only good discussions will occur in threads on mediocre games. But truthfully, I doubt it's a cycle that can be broken.
Even if they don't drop the T-word, it is often obvious that people with a dissenting opinion are often regarded as trolls.
CT and defrag have pretty much echoed my own thoughts on the situation and my opinion on how it *should* be. If you want to have an appreciative circle-jerk, then label the thread as such. Anything else should be discussion, by default. And 97% of the threads should be discussion threads, not appreciation threads.
He's one of the biggest Wii fans in SE.
He and Defender have argued for pages about it (though that's more because of Defender, but still)
Really. I wasn't around when this happened, and I'm begining to think I'm glad I wasn't.
I don't think that should be the sole deciding factor.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I was thinking of the same thing actually.
That's a modifier therefor it doesn't count.
That vibe coming from G&T makes me not want to post very often. I have thick skin, I can take some random flaming, but it sure doesn't make me want to post in there ever. It seems to be agree with the consensus, or don't bother posting. It'll either be ignored or you'll be accused of ruining everyone else's fun.
I'm not suggesting mod intervention, but it's that sort of attitude in the community, not Megathreads or too many poll threads, that keep people away from G&T. It's an exclusive club where outside opinions aren't welcome. You'd best love Nintendo, Ico, Planescape Torment, Trauma Center, Contact, and a whole slew of niche games, or you don't fit in. I rarely agree with the general consensus here and would love to talk about it, but the few times I try, there seems to be no point. People can't understand why Game X is so underappreciated, but they won't listen to people who don't think the game is very good. For a board that looks disparagingly at GameFAQs, it's often not much better.
Well, the english skills are better.
So I usually just lurk. Which I'm fine with. I only posted all of this to give the perspective of somebody who can't be bothered to post in G&T because of the clique atmosphere.
For the record, D&D is good. Sure, if you take the conservative side, they'll probably make stupid jokes for a page and a half at your expense, but they'll eventually simmer down and discussion will resume.
In the interest of accuracy, and since I'm bored to death right now...
You made two posts in the Okami thread that people responded negatively to... out of about 10-15 or so altogether.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24402958#24402958
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24437968#24437968
Funnily, one of those responses was from Defrag, but honestly, that was basically just a sarcastic quip and a rolleyes directed at a lot of people. The other one, only Alucard(some-number) responded to, and someone immediately made fun of him for it. Alucard has also been banned in the past for trolling so... I'm not really certain how he became indicative of the forum as a whole.
technically, wouldn't the phenomena be clubs, as I quite certain that these do not always involve the same people each time.
perhaps this is just the type of gamer Penny Arcade attracts for the most part?
I think it may be that certain games attract certain types of people. Take the Knights of the Nine thread for Oblivion, for example. Most of the comments have been less than "omg teh maxxest bestest" and the thread really hasn't suffered for it. Granted, Tube is a regular poster there and people walk in fear of his wrath, but that hasn't stopped people from disagreeing with him in an articulate fashion. It could also be that the KotN content is less than expected, but I wouldn't know. I haven't had a chance to pick it up yet. In which case, I would be cherry-picking over threads, and then I'd need to apologize. I still think my hypothesis stands.