I think Tube mentioned it already, in the end you're just giving power to the word to be hurtful. What the hell happened to 'sticks and stones etc.'? It's only offensive if you let it.
Well, as I said earlier, I'm of the opinion that the people who give such words their "power" are the ones who tend to back it up with a shotgun and a noose.
I suppose that reasoning is wonderful when you're near a fencepost in Wyoming on an abandoned road. But this is the INTERNET. Science has yet to show an example of someone reaching through the computer and killing another user on the other end.
I think you're being a touch glib, but whatever. I got that from a Slovakian girl I once knew. According to her it's one of the most common ways to curse someone out in her homeland.
It doesn't matter where you got it, it just strikes me as very ironic that you would advocate being misogynistic over being homophobic.
Anyway, just in case it needs to be restated, I am not in any way, shape, or form advocating the banning of the word, or knee-jerk bannings/jailings for people who use it. I'm simply trying to make it clear that, given the obvious baggage that it carries, we should be cautious about creating an environment where people feel comfortable throwing it around as though it were no different from "idiot." Don't ban it, but don't let it get out of hand, either.
So your point is that people need to be more considerate of particular insults and that the environment should be constructed so as to promote this? Where does this lead?
It leads to the exercise of common sense. God help us all.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
It leads to the exercise of common sense. God help us all.
Why wouldn't common sense lead to people not being offended by the arbitrary nature of language? Is it even common sense if it has to be encouraged by external factors?
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
It leads to the exercise of common sense. God help us all.
Why wouldn't common sense lead to people not being offended by the arbitrary nature of language? Is it even common sense if it has to be encouraged by external factors?
Who was it that said "Common sense is neither common, nor does it frequently make much sense."?
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
If it's so openly used, how do we know who's using it in a homophobic way?
context!
You're a fucking fag.
See that could mean :you're a fucking idiot", or "you're a fucking a gay which means that's wrong and calling you that means gays are below humans."
That wasn't quite enough context. To what use has this hypothetical poster put the word before? To what was he or she replying. Who was this poster replying to, and why?
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
If it's so openly used, how do we know who's using it in a homophobic way?
context!
You're a fucking fag.
See that could mean :you're a fucking idiot", or "you're a fucking a gay which means that's wrong and calling you that means gays are below humans."
Had you typed only that, it would've been an inappropriate component to the discussion and the content of this subforum.
Then you added the additional text denoting it as an example, giving it a more appropriate context.
In a place like SE, if that's all you had to say in the thread, and there was nothing else to give it additional context, then it's just a stupid post.
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denihilistAncient and MightyRegistered User, Moderatormod
If it's so openly used, how do we know who's using it in a homophobic way?
context!
You're a fucking fag.
See that could mean :you're a fucking idiot", or "you're a fucking a gay which means that's wrong and calling you that means gays are below humans."
Um, I'm pretty sure the idea is that the word, faggot, described a lifestyle and that linking the word, as you did, to things that are obviously negative you mean the lifestyle is negative as well. Or that the lifestyle is so obviously negative that it can be used as a blanket perjorative.
Which isn't to say that it should be banned but your defense is pretty lame. Gay even.
If it's so openly used, how do we know who's using it in a homophobic way?
context!
You're a fucking fag.
See that could mean :you're a fucking idiot", or "you're a fucking a gay which means that's wrong and calling you that means gays are below humans."
Um, I'm pretty sure the idea is that the word, faggot, described a lifestyle and that linking the word, as you did, to things that are obviously negative you mean the lifestyle is negative as well. Or that the lifestyle is so obviously negative that it can be used as a blanket perjorative.
Which isn't to say that it should be banned but your defense is pretty lame. Gay even.
What about bastard? People don't choose whether or not their parent's were married when they were born, and in olden times it was considered a grave insult. I call people bastards all the time now. Language evolves.
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denihilistAncient and MightyRegistered User, Moderatormod
If it's so openly used, how do we know who's using it in a homophobic way?
context!
You're a fucking fag.
See that could mean :you're a fucking idiot", or "you're a fucking a gay which means that's wrong and calling you that means gays are below humans."
That wasn't quite enough context. To what use has this hypothetical poster put the word before? To what was he or she replying. Who was this poster replying to, and why?
Let's say someone says they like WoW (in a chat thread) and that was the response.
Why would cock/dick jokes need to stop?
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denihilistAncient and MightyRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited December 2006
Personally I think 'You're a gay' is more offensive that faggot simply because I grew up on the playground and know that when people say fag or faggot, they mean weak.
if that's all you had to say in the thread, and there was nothing else to give it additional context, then it's just a stupid post.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
edited December 2006
I think that throwing faggot around creates a hostile atmosphere, and furthermore, that the amount of energy people put into making jokes about being gay betrays that this is not the super-tolerant utopia everyone pats themselves on the back about. I would be much more inclined to say that people find said gay innuendo jokes funny because they're not totally comfortable with homosexuality rather than vice versa.
I know I'm in the minority opinion on this one, however.
Screw what I just said. I don't like the word. It celebrates the people who used it to harm and oust people. Just because it has no homophobic intent from you, doesn't cancel out what it is.
I think that throwing faggot around creates a hostile atmosphere, and furthermore, that the amount of energy people put into making jokes about being gay betrays that this is not the super-tolerant utopia everyone pats themselves on the back about. I would be much more inclined to say that people find said gay innuendo jokes funny because they're not totally comfortable with homosexuality rather than vice versa.
I know I'm in the minority opinion on this one, however.
I guess a lot of us are secretly rapists and murderers too, for all that we talk about said activities.
If some random American of African decent "Drops the 'N' bomb" on his friend jokingly in conversation, they have NO RIGHT to be offended if I as an American of Dutch ancestory do the same.
They have signed away that 'right' by doing the very thing they may find offense with.
I would love to hear you tell this to a black person.
If some random American of African decent "Drops the 'N' bomb" on his friend jokingly in conversation, they have NO RIGHT to be offended if I as an American of Dutch ancestory do the same.
They have signed away that 'right' by doing the very thing they may find offense with.
I would love to hear you tell this to a black person.
I have.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
If some random American of African decent "Drops the 'N' bomb" on his friend jokingly in conversation, they have NO RIGHT to be offended if I as an American of Dutch ancestory do the same.
They have signed away that 'right' by doing the very thing they may find offense with.
I would love to hear you tell this to a black person.
Just because I believe something doesn;t mean I am going to martyr myself in a spat of idealistic exuberance.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
If some random American of African decent "Drops the 'N' bomb" on his friend jokingly in conversation, they have NO RIGHT to be offended if I as an American of Dutch ancestory do the same.
They have signed away that 'right' by doing the very thing they may find offense with.
I would love to hear you tell this to a black person.
See, I actually think this comment is more racist than calling someone "Nigger".
Not that I think you did that intentionally Fallout.
Well, since I'm not a faggot (or a nigger), I can't speak with any assurance for the homosexual community, but to me it would seem that the use of "faggot" in everyday speech has drastically limited it's power over the original intent (to make a derogatory comment about a homosexual).
I am (surprisingly) in complete agreement with Tube on the notion that hateful words only have power if we let them. Sure, faggot (and nigger and wetback and spic and chink and cracker) are ugly words if we view them by their original intent, but since the word flies all over the forums so often (especially in SE++), if a forumer calls another forumer a faggot then it has no power.
That said, I think it all depends on which subforum you're in, since I made a few people mad unintentionally during a Photoshop thread in G&T (phoneticly describe a catchphrase or meme) a while back for my phonetic descriptions of "Whatever faggot, go back to G&T" and "Nigger stole my bike" (all the good memes were already taken). I didn't consider them offensive, and I like to think that I am as open minded as possible as often as possible in terms of people who happen to be a different color or worship a different god (or a god in general) or dudes who like to fuck other dudes, but I still offended a few people.
Basically, I think that the use of the word (and other "hate terms") should be up to the poster, but serious (hurtful intent) usage should definitely be an jailable/bannable offense. But if I tell Tube to quit being such a goddamn drooling breechloader I think that he knows that I am not trying to offend anyone who is either mentally disabled or homosexual. But hey, I'm a 20 year old white American heterosexual male, so I don't think I can accurately describe what discrimination or hate speech really feels like.
On a side note, I think it's cool that this thread has been so civil so far.
Wait, so can I still use "faggot" to refer to a bundle of firewood?
Cause I would hate to cause offense by telling people I was burning a few in my backyard.
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FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
See, I actually think this comment is more racist than calling someone "Nigger".
Not that I think you did that intentionally Fallout.
If you're saying that the comment appears the black person in question would get violent because "black people are violent", well, no, that wasn't my intent. I do think you'd have a pretty amusing conversation on who dictates what with someone who likely has a very different perspective on things.
If some random American of African decent "Drops the 'N' bomb" on his friend jokingly in conversation, they have NO RIGHT to be offended if I as an American of Dutch ancestory do the same.
They have signed away that 'right' by doing the very thing they may find offense with.
I would love to hear you tell this to a black person.
I think part of why some people are offended by the word is the new negative connotations did arrive from the mutation of the original word. There is a tie there where suddenly gays are lame and weak or stupid or whatever people like to claim the words currently mean. I don't think banning specific words is all that productive. It isn't going to reduce any potential biggotry, perceived or real.
See, I actually think this comment is more racist than calling someone "Nigger".
Not that I think you did that intentionally Fallout.
If you're saying that the comment appears the black person in question would get violent because "black people are violent", well, no, that wasn't my intent. I do think you'd have a pretty amusing conversation on who dictates what with someone who likely has a very different perspective on things.
Well, the issue would seem to be that you've identified blacks as a group with a reaction or set of reactions distinct from another group, possibly whites, not accounted for by the individual but only by race.
If some random American of African decent "Drops the 'N' bomb" on his friend jokingly in conversation, they have NO RIGHT to be offended if I as an American of Dutch ancestory do the same.
They have signed away that 'right' by doing the very thing they may find offense with.
I would love to hear you tell this to a black person.
I have.
Not verbatim, I assume. What did s/he say?
My friend Brendan doesn't say nigger when he sings along to rap songs, but his friend Sean feels adequately allowed to do so as Sean is black. Sean has commented on how the experience is alienating since it's just repetition of a written lyric. I called the whole thing ridiculous and said, "niggerniggerniggerniggerniggerniggernigger, see, it doesn't matter."
Sean said that he felt uncomfortable with that. I said that assuming a person shouldn't have access to the word because their being white has a history associated with racism saddles the individual with the burden of whiteness, which is just more racism. He said he logically agrees, and that his unease is a gut reaction. We settled on getting drunk and finishing the conversation another time.
The chance of the word getting banned is slim.
However let it be known that the use of the word will be frowned on and anyone who is using it abusively will be warned not to continue to do so. Ignore the warning and receive a banning.
"Drez, you silly faggot, come have sex with me." Is passable.
"God, stop being such a faggot." Probably isn't.
The "Burden of Whiteness" is interesting to talk about since it calls into question the true meaning of equality, which is a pretty hot issue right now, especially with the White College Scholarship fiasco going on. And it's a legitimate issue, since organizations like the NAACP promote the education and advancement of African Americans exclusively (The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People if I remember correctly), and is heralded for all of the good work that it does (it really is an incredible organization that has helped a lot of people), but an organization similar but for white Americans only causes protests in the street. This falls in to why we don't have a "White History Month", I suppose.
Which some might find strange since there are quite a few areas in this country where white people are the minority.
Posts
I suppose that reasoning is wonderful when you're near a fencepost in Wyoming on an abandoned road. But this is the INTERNET. Science has yet to show an example of someone reaching through the computer and killing another user on the other end.
It doesn't matter where you got it, it just strikes me as very ironic that you would advocate being misogynistic over being homophobic.
How do you think social policy in a cosmopolitan population should be decided?
It leads to the exercise of common sense. God help us all.
Who was it that said "Common sense is neither common, nor does it frequently make much sense."?
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
context!
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
See that could mean :you're a fucking idiot", or "you're a fucking a gay which means that's wrong and calling you that means gays are below humans."
That wasn't quite enough context. To what use has this hypothetical poster put the word before? To what was he or she replying. Who was this poster replying to, and why?
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Then you added the additional text denoting it as an example, giving it a more appropriate context.
In a place like SE, if that's all you had to say in the thread, and there was nothing else to give it additional context, then it's just a stupid post.
Which isn't to say that it should be banned but your defense is pretty lame. Gay even.
What about bastard? People don't choose whether or not their parent's were married when they were born, and in olden times it was considered a grave insult. I call people bastards all the time now. Language evolves.
Why would cock/dick jokes need to stop?
I know I'm in the minority opinion on this one, however.
I guess a lot of us are secretly rapists and murderers too, for all that we talk about said activities.
I would love to hear you tell this to a black person.
Just because I believe something doesn;t mean I am going to martyr myself in a spat of idealistic exuberance.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
See, I actually think this comment is more racist than calling someone "Nigger".
Not that I think you did that intentionally Fallout.
according, a fag is someone who IS lame.
the full on faggot is far far commonly used and does carry a more anti-sexual tone, as far as I've heard it used.
I am (surprisingly) in complete agreement with Tube on the notion that hateful words only have power if we let them. Sure, faggot (and nigger and wetback and spic and chink and cracker) are ugly words if we view them by their original intent, but since the word flies all over the forums so often (especially in SE++), if a forumer calls another forumer a faggot then it has no power.
That said, I think it all depends on which subforum you're in, since I made a few people mad unintentionally during a Photoshop thread in G&T (phoneticly describe a catchphrase or meme) a while back for my phonetic descriptions of "Whatever faggot, go back to G&T" and "Nigger stole my bike" (all the good memes were already taken). I didn't consider them offensive, and I like to think that I am as open minded as possible as often as possible in terms of people who happen to be a different color or worship a different god (or a god in general) or dudes who like to fuck other dudes, but I still offended a few people.
Basically, I think that the use of the word (and other "hate terms") should be up to the poster, but serious (hurtful intent) usage should definitely be an jailable/bannable offense. But if I tell Tube to quit being such a goddamn drooling breechloader I think that he knows that I am not trying to offend anyone who is either mentally disabled or homosexual. But hey, I'm a 20 year old white American heterosexual male, so I don't think I can accurately describe what discrimination or hate speech really feels like.
On a side note, I think it's cool that this thread has been so civil so far.
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Cause I would hate to cause offense by telling people I was burning a few in my backyard.
Haha
If you're saying that the comment appears the black person in question would get violent because "black people are violent", well, no, that wasn't my intent. I do think you'd have a pretty amusing conversation on who dictates what with someone who likely has a very different perspective on things.
Not verbatim, I assume. What did s/he say?
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My friend Brendan doesn't say nigger when he sings along to rap songs, but his friend Sean feels adequately allowed to do so as Sean is black. Sean has commented on how the experience is alienating since it's just repetition of a written lyric. I called the whole thing ridiculous and said, "niggerniggerniggerniggerniggerniggernigger, see, it doesn't matter."
Sean said that he felt uncomfortable with that. I said that assuming a person shouldn't have access to the word because their being white has a history associated with racism saddles the individual with the burden of whiteness, which is just more racism. He said he logically agrees, and that his unease is a gut reaction. We settled on getting drunk and finishing the conversation another time.
However let it be known that the use of the word will be frowned on and anyone who is using it abusively will be warned not to continue to do so. Ignore the warning and receive a banning.
"Drez, you silly faggot, come have sex with me." Is passable.
"God, stop being such a faggot." Probably isn't.
Kind of up to mod discretion.
Which some might find strange since there are quite a few areas in this country where white people are the minority.
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