Because attending school doesn't fall into the category of "servitude"?
Why not? You're punished for not "obeying."
Because children don't have full protection under the constitution. You're still legally considered the property of your parents. Besides, it's not like this is the only law made to protect us against ourselves. You really think seatbelt laws are constitutional?
Is it right that anyone under 18 is property and not people with representation or rights?
It's a hell of a lot better than the alternative, because then you'd have dumbasses who refused to go to school and you'd end up with a population of mouth-breathers with no education or skills. There are comprehensive layers of protections to prevent abuses of the "children = property" aspect of law, and it makes sure that decisions are made by those who are equipped to make them properly.
Children aren't regarded as property. They just have a different legal status than adults.
Admittedly not my area of expertise, but isn't there some merit to the property analogue? It seems really familiar, but I can't remember if it was a valid point or one that some incorrectly raised.
It's like comparing an apple to an orange. Valid in some ways but not in others.
Admittedly not my area of expertise, but isn't there some merit to the property analogue? It seems really familiar, but I can't remember if it was a valid point or one that some incorrectly raised.
While minors aren't regarded as chattel any longer they are still thought to always be under someone's custody whether it be parents, guardians, or the state, barring emancipation. So while not free and equal persons, custodians can't exactly do whatever they want with them like they can with real property.
Admittedly not my area of expertise, but isn't there some merit to the property analogue? It seems really familiar, but I can't remember if it was a valid point or one that some incorrectly raised.
While minors aren't regarded as chattel any longer they are still thought to always be under someone's custody whether it be parents, guardians, or the state, barring emancipation. So while not free and equal persons, custodians can't exactly do whatever they want with them like they can with real property.
And when they are murdered the case isn't treated as vandalism.
Because attending school doesn't fall into the category of "servitude"?
Why not? You're punished for not "obeying."
Because children don't have full protection under the constitution. You're still legally considered the property of your parents. Besides, it's not like this is the only law made to protect us against ourselves. You really think seatbelt laws are constitutional?
Is it right that anyone under 18 is property and not people with representation or rights?
Yes. Because people under 18 are idiots 99.9% of the time, and are utterly incapable of making rational and logical decisions about their lives while taking into consideration the long-term ramifications of those decisions.
And quit playing the fucking either/or. You have limited rights and unequal representation.
The vast majority of Americans used to believe women were incapable of making decisions.
Would it surprise you if in the future youth were allowed to decide things for themselves? (to remain on topic, I am referring to compulsory attendance)
First you compare it to slavery, now you compare it to sufferage? :roll:
Following your logic of 'being legally required to go somewhere, potentially against your will' = slavery I can only assume that you would like to abolish penitentiaries as well.
Admittedly not my area of expertise, but isn't there some merit to the property analogue? It seems really familiar, but I can't remember if it was a valid point or one that some incorrectly raised.
While minors aren't regarded as chattel any longer they are still thought to always be under someone's custody whether it be parents, guardians, or the state, barring emancipation. So while not free and equal persons, custodians can't exactly do whatever they want with them like they can with real property.
And when they are murdered the case isn't treated as vandalism.
All reasons why I went with analogy, instead of "exactly like in all respects"
I know I've heard property used as the basis for describing the parent/child relationship (of course with restrictions), and I was just trying to remember if I'd heard it in a serious context, or if it was in one of these "The man is keeping me down" rants.
CRAWLING IN MY SKINTHESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL
Stop trying to be funny, and stay on topic if you're going to post.
Chill dude, the mods handle that kind of stuff so let them do their job.
Anyway, do you have any more points to make or are we done here anyway? I haven't seen you present an argument without glaring holes in it yet, so I'd be happy to hear them.
sanstodo on
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
CRAWLING IN MY SKINTHESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL
Stop trying to be funny, and stay on topic if you're going to post.
Chill dude, the mods handle that kind of stuff so let them do their job.
Anyway, do you have any more points to make or are we done here anyway? I haven't seen you present an argument without glaring holes in it yet, so I'd be happy to hear them.
Sorry, but that's basically what this thread is about. You're bitching that you have to go to school. And you're ignoring everyone who's been through it that tells you it's a good thing everyone goes to school.
CRAWLING IN MY SKINTHESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL
Stop trying to be funny, and stay on topic if you're going to post.
Chill dude, the mods handle that kind of stuff so let them do their job.
Anyway, do you have any more points to make or are we done here anyway? I haven't seen you present an argument without glaring holes in it yet, so I'd be happy to hear them.
Sorry, but that's basically what this thread is about. You're bitching that you have to go to school. And you're ignoring everyone who's been through it that tells you it's a good thing everyone goes to school.
I don't think you've read the thread, and I think you're trying to be humorous and personally insult me at the same time by making assumptions (as you just did, by implying that I'm ignoring people).
You are basically treated as property in the U.S. But that has nothing to do with compulsory education laws.
Even if you were thought of as full adults under the Constitution, compulsory education laws would still be constitutional, because there is an incredibly compelling state interest in children going to school. If children aren't in school, that means they're probably working. This creates several problems: the first being that those children who are working never get any education, which means that they will most likely be working unskilled jobs for the rest of their lives. The second is that it injects a very large number of people into the labor pool who previously weren't eligible for work. This is going to drive down wages, and make it harder for everyone to find jobs. The third is that it creates an incentive for parents to not send their children to school; given the choice, as the head of household, would you rather have two incomes, or three incomes bringing money in? The obvious, selfish choice is three. And without compulsory education, a lot of poorer families would probably elect to not send their children to school, while richer families would have no problem "affording" the opportunity cost of having their children in school. This makes the class divide even larger, and totally screws the poor families. We can see this effect in a lot of developing nations, where a compulsory education policy isn't in place.
I think the OP poster has to give reasoning as to why public education is bad, but since he doesn't want an education, I probably shouldn't hold my breath, huh?
You are basically treated as property in the U.S. But that has nothing to do with compulsory education laws.
Even if you were thought of as full adults under the Constitution, compulsory education laws would still be constitutional, because there is an incredibly compelling state interest in children going to school. If children aren't in school, that means they're probably working. This creates several problems: the first being that those children who are working never get any education, which means that they will most likely be working unskilled jobs for the rest of their lives. The second is that it injects a very large number of people into the labor pool who previously weren't eligible for work. This is going to drive down wages, and make it harder for everyone to find jobs. The third is that it creates an incentive for parents to not send their children to school; given the choice, as the head of household, would you rather have two incomes, or three incomes bringing money in? The obvious, selfish choice is three. And without compulsory education, a lot of poorer families would probably elect to not send their children to school, while richer families would have no problem "affording" the opportunity cost of having their children in school. This makes the class divide even larger, and totally screws the poor families. We can see this effect in a lot of developing nations, where a compulsory education policy isn't in place.
Does that answer your question?
Yes - that is the sort of answer I was looking for.
Unlike Fencing who has managed to post three times without saying a single thing constructive, interesting, or even humorous.
russia32 on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
CRAWLING IN MY SKINTHESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL
Stop trying to be funny, and stay on topic if you're going to post.
Chill dude, the mods handle that kind of stuff so let them do their job.
Anyway, do you have any more points to make or are we done here anyway? I haven't seen you present an argument without glaring holes in it yet, so I'd be happy to hear them.
Sorry, but that's basically what this thread is about. You're bitching that you have to go to school. And you're ignoring everyone who's been through it that tells you it's a good thing everyone goes to school.
I don't think you've read the thread, and I think you're trying to be humorous and personally insult me at the same time by making assumptions (as you just did, by implying that I'm ignoring people).
Well, you certainly haven't been paying attention. And maybe you should lurk more, because everyone tries to be humorous and personally insulting.
You are basically treated as property in the U.S. But that has nothing to do with compulsory education laws.
Even if you were thought of as full adults under the Constitution, compulsory education laws would still be constitutional, because there is an incredibly compelling state interest in children going to school. If children aren't in school, that means they're probably working. This creates several problems: the first being that those children who are working never get any education, which means that they will most likely be working unskilled jobs for the rest of their lives. The second is that it injects a very large number of people into the labor pool who previously weren't eligible for work. This is going to drive down wages, and make it harder for everyone to find jobs. The third is that it creates an incentive for parents to not send their children to school; given the choice, as the head of household, would you rather have two incomes, or three incomes bringing money in? The obvious, selfish choice is three. And without compulsory education, a lot of poorer families would probably elect to not send their children to school, while richer families would have no problem "affording" the opportunity cost of having their children in school. This makes the class divide even larger, and totally screws the poor families. We can see this effect in a lot of developing nations, where a compulsory education policy isn't in place.
CRAWLING IN MY SKINTHESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL
Stop trying to be funny, and stay on topic if you're going to post.
Chill dude, the mods handle that kind of stuff so let them do their job.
Anyway, do you have any more points to make or are we done here anyway? I haven't seen you present an argument without glaring holes in it yet, so I'd be happy to hear them.
Sorry, but that's basically what this thread is about. You're bitching that you have to go to school. And you're ignoring everyone who's been through it that tells you it's a good thing everyone goes to school.
I don't think you've read the thread, and I think you're trying to be humorous and personally insult me at the same time by making assumptions (as you just did, by implying that I'm ignoring people).
Well, you certainly haven't been paying attention. And maybe you should lurk more, because everyone tries to be humorous and personally insulting.
About the only way you're going to get compulsory attendance to cross into 13th Amendment territory is by bringing up schools that require x many hours of community "volunteer" labor from their students in order to graduate, and it really wouldn't surprise me in the least if those setups were declared unconstitutional or banned by law the second somebody decided to file a legal challenge and stick with it.
Ecoterrorism is actually the single largest terrorist threat at the moment. They don't usually kill people, but they blow up or set on fire very expensive things.
I think the OP poster has to give reasoning as to why public education is bad, but since he doesn't want an education, I probably shouldn't hold my breath, huh?
Homeschooling would fall under this post too since you have 3 options:
1) Send kid to public school.
2) Send kid to private school.
3) Homeschool kid.
Anything not involving a recognized form of schooling = jailtime.
FyreWulff on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
CRAWLING IN MY SKINTHESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL
Stop trying to be funny, and stay on topic if you're going to post.
Chill dude, the mods handle that kind of stuff so let them do their job.
Anyway, do you have any more points to make or are we done here anyway? I haven't seen you present an argument without glaring holes in it yet, so I'd be happy to hear them.
Sorry, but that's basically what this thread is about. You're bitching that you have to go to school. And you're ignoring everyone who's been through it that tells you it's a good thing everyone goes to school.
I don't think you've read the thread, and I think you're trying to be humorous and personally insult me at the same time by making assumptions (as you just did, by implying that I'm ignoring people).
Well, you certainly haven't been paying attention. And maybe you should lurk more, because everyone tries to be humorous and personally insulting.
CRAWLING IN MY SKINTHESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL
Stop trying to be funny, and stay on topic if you're going to post.
Chill dude, the mods handle that kind of stuff so let them do their job.
Anyway, do you have any more points to make or are we done here anyway? I haven't seen you present an argument without glaring holes in it yet, so I'd be happy to hear them.
Sorry, but that's basically what this thread is about. You're bitching that you have to go to school. And you're ignoring everyone who's been through it that tells you it's a good thing everyone goes to school.
I don't think you've read the thread, and I think you're trying to be humorous and personally insult me at the same time by making assumptions (as you just did, by implying that I'm ignoring people).
Well, you certainly haven't been paying attention. And maybe you should lurk more, because everyone tries to be humorous and personally insulting.
Except most people are successful.
Did you just prove my point or yours?
Still crying?
russia32 on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I think the OP poster has to give reasoning as to why public education is bad, but since he doesn't want an education, I probably shouldn't hold my breath, huh?
Homeschooling would fall under this post too since you have 3 options:
1) Send kid to public school.
2) Send kid to private school.
3) Homeschool kid.
Anything not involving a recognized form of schooling = jailtime.
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I don't know, you seemed to be quite huffy there.
Okay, I'm going to clue you in on something. This is a bad topic, with frankly, stupid rationalizing. A few of us may be trying to treat it seriously, and make you understand why mandatory schooling is in no way comparable to slavery or sufferage, but most people here are just goading you. And they're succeeding at it.
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I don't know, you seemed to be quite huffy there.
Okay, I'm going to clue you in on something. This is a bad topic, with frankly, stupid rationalizing. A few of us may be trying to treat it seriously, and make you understand why mandatory schooling is in no way comparable to slavery or sufferage, but most people here are just goading you. And they're succeeding at it.
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I don't know, you seemed to be quite huffy there.
Okay, I'm going to clue you in on something. This is a bad topic, with frankly, stupid rationalizing. A few of us may be trying to treat it seriously, and make you understand why mandatory schooling is in no way comparable to slavery or sufferage, but most people here are just goading you. And they're succeeding at it.
You seem quite huffy there.
Please read what Bionic Monkey wrote. It might help you pick a better topic in the future with a better OP and argumentation.
Try to avoid falling into the trap of replying the weakest and/or most inflammatory posts. It only drags down the level of discourse.
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I don't know, you seemed to be quite huffy there.
Okay, I'm going to clue you in on something. This is a bad topic, with frankly, stupid rationalizing. A few of us may be trying to treat it seriously, and make you understand why mandatory schooling is in no way comparable to slavery or sufferage, but most people here are just goading you. And they're succeeding at it.
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I don't know, you seemed to be quite huffy there.
Okay, I'm going to clue you in on something. This is a bad topic, with frankly, stupid rationalizing. A few of us may be trying to treat it seriously, and make you understand why mandatory schooling is in no way comparable to slavery or sufferage, but most people here are just goading you. And they're succeeding at it.
You seem quite huffy there.
Please read what Bionic Monkey wrote. It might help you pick a better topic in the future with a better OP and argumentation.
Try to avoid falling into the trap of replying the weakest and/or most inflammatory posts. It only drags down the level of discourse.
I did not refer to going to school as sufferage once.
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I don't know, you seemed to be quite huffy there.
Okay, I'm going to clue you in on something. This is a bad topic, with frankly, stupid rationalizing. A few of us may be trying to treat it seriously, and make you understand why mandatory schooling is in no way comparable to slavery or sufferage, but most people here are just goading you. And they're succeeding at it.
You seem quite huffy there.
Please read what Bionic Monkey wrote. It might help you pick a better topic in the future with a better OP and argumentation.
Try to avoid falling into the trap of replying the weakest and/or most inflammatory posts. It only drags down the level of discourse.
I did not refer to going to school as sufferage once.
The vast majority of Americans used to believe women were incapable of making decisions.
Would it surprise you if in the future youth were allowed to decide things for themselves? (to remain on topic, I am referring to compulsory attendance)
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I don't know, you seemed to be quite huffy there.
Okay, I'm going to clue you in on something. This is a bad topic, with frankly, stupid rationalizing. A few of us may be trying to treat it seriously, and make you understand why mandatory schooling is in no way comparable to slavery or sufferage, but most people here are just goading you. And they're succeeding at it.
You seem quite huffy there.
Please read what Bionic Monkey wrote. It might help you pick a better topic in the future with a better OP and argumentation.
Try to avoid falling into the trap of replying the weakest and/or most inflammatory posts. It only drags down the level of discourse.
I did not refer to going to school as sufferage once.
The vast majority of Americans used to believe women were incapable of making decisions.
Would it surprise you if in the future youth were allowed to decide things for themselves? (to remain on topic, I am referring to compulsory attendance)
That's suffrage.
Suffering generally involves enduring pain of some form. Education is in no way painful.
About the only way you're going to get compulsory attendance to cross into 13th Amendment territory is by bringing up schools that require x many hours of community "volunteer" labor from their students in order to graduate, and it really wouldn't surprise me in the least if those setups were declared unconstitutional or banned by law the second somebody decided to file a legal challenge and stick with it.
I think challenging mandated community service as involuntary servitude has been done before and failed. I can't remember the case off hand but I'll look it up.
Okay, found it. Case is 210 S.E.2d 842 (M.J.W.). The District court ruled that community service is not involuntary servitude, not a punishment, and not a fine but was considered rehabilitation. Keep in mind that this is an ad hoc ruling and only applies to minors in the Juvenile Court system. I'm certain that had this happened within the adult system community service would be found as punishment, involuntary servitude, and is unconstitutional. Yeah, the juvenile system doesn't make a lot of sense some times and there are growing movements to abolish it.
You compared men pre-sufferage thinking women are too incompetent to vote to not letting children choose whether or not they should go to school.
Denying it at this juncture isn't going to help you any.
I think you're referring to suffrage.
It's an entirely different concept.
You're nitpicking spelling errors to bolster your stance now? Okay, I'm washing my hands of you. Go down in a glorious flaming spectacle. At least it'll be entertaining.
Suffrage (from the Latin suffragium, meaning "vote") is the civil right to vote, or the exercise of that right. In that context, it is also called political franchise or simply the franchise, a term dating from the time when the Franks of ancient France were free.
Posts
It's like comparing an apple to an orange. Valid in some ways but not in others.
While minors aren't regarded as chattel any longer they are still thought to always be under someone's custody whether it be parents, guardians, or the state, barring emancipation. So while not free and equal persons, custodians can't exactly do whatever they want with them like they can with real property.
And when they are murdered the case isn't treated as vandalism.
And quit playing the fucking either/or. You have limited rights and unequal representation.
All reasons why I went with analogy, instead of "exactly like in all respects"
I know I've heard property used as the basis for describing the parent/child relationship (of course with restrictions), and I was just trying to remember if I'd heard it in a serious context, or if it was in one of these "The man is keeping me down" rants.
CRAWLING IN MY SKINTHESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL
Stop trying to be funny, and stay on topic if you're going to post.
Chill dude, the mods handle that kind of stuff so let them do their job.
Anyway, do you have any more points to make or are we done here anyway? I haven't seen you present an argument without glaring holes in it yet, so I'd be happy to hear them.
Sorry, but that's basically what this thread is about. You're bitching that you have to go to school. And you're ignoring everyone who's been through it that tells you it's a good thing everyone goes to school.
I don't think you've read the thread, and I think you're trying to be humorous and personally insult me at the same time by making assumptions (as you just did, by implying that I'm ignoring people).
Even if you were thought of as full adults under the Constitution, compulsory education laws would still be constitutional, because there is an incredibly compelling state interest in children going to school. If children aren't in school, that means they're probably working. This creates several problems: the first being that those children who are working never get any education, which means that they will most likely be working unskilled jobs for the rest of their lives. The second is that it injects a very large number of people into the labor pool who previously weren't eligible for work. This is going to drive down wages, and make it harder for everyone to find jobs. The third is that it creates an incentive for parents to not send their children to school; given the choice, as the head of household, would you rather have two incomes, or three incomes bringing money in? The obvious, selfish choice is three. And without compulsory education, a lot of poorer families would probably elect to not send their children to school, while richer families would have no problem "affording" the opportunity cost of having their children in school. This makes the class divide even larger, and totally screws the poor families. We can see this effect in a lot of developing nations, where a compulsory education policy isn't in place.
Does that answer your question?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Yes - that is the sort of answer I was looking for.
Unlike Fencing who has managed to post three times without saying a single thing constructive, interesting, or even humorous.
Well, you certainly haven't been paying attention. And maybe you should lurk more, because everyone tries to be humorous and personally insulting.
Pweecisewy
Except most people are successful.
Homeschooling would fall under this post too since you have 3 options:
1) Send kid to public school.
2) Send kid to private school.
3) Homeschool kid.
Anything not involving a recognized form of schooling = jailtime.
Did you just prove my point or yours?
Still crying?
I think you need to understand that no one takes the forums very seriously, outside of specific discussions (see: Loren and irrationality, for example).
I don't know, you seemed to be quite huffy there.
NO U.
Really.
Very true. My bad.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
This is Saturday, right? There's no school today?
And yeah, you don't HAVE to go to school- you'd just have to have mommy or daddums teach you at home.
Makes for a great time!
You seem quite huffy there.
Please read what Bionic Monkey wrote. It might help you pick a better topic in the future with a better OP and argumentation.
Try to avoid falling into the trap of replying the weakest and/or most inflammatory posts. It only drags down the level of discourse.
He's trying to help you.
I did not refer to going to school as sufferage once.
Denying it at this juncture isn't going to help you any.
I think you're referring to suffrage.
It's an entirely different concept.
That's suffrage.
Suffering generally involves enduring pain of some form. Education is in no way painful.
I think challenging mandated community service as involuntary servitude has been done before and failed. I can't remember the case off hand but I'll look it up.
Okay, found it. Case is 210 S.E.2d 842 (M.J.W.). The District court ruled that community service is not involuntary servitude, not a punishment, and not a fine but was considered rehabilitation. Keep in mind that this is an ad hoc ruling and only applies to minors in the Juvenile Court system. I'm certain that had this happened within the adult system community service would be found as punishment, involuntary servitude, and is unconstitutional. Yeah, the juvenile system doesn't make a lot of sense some times and there are growing movements to abolish it.
EDIT: Oh, I see what he did now.
Yeah.
That's really stupid of you.