Maybe it was northstar? Oh right, Canada. Yeah, that would explain it.
All these knock-off Flashes are the same to me.
Honestly by that part of the comic I was sort of mesmerized by Creepy Male Model Face Syndrome going on and the whole snowboard thing was just background noise behind their weird smiles.
Wasn't the Wizzer before Flash or anyone else?
And aren't all the contemporary Flashes just knock-offs of at least the original Flash?
Anyway, there is still a Stilt-Man. Rhino talked Frank out of killing him (them, really) in PWJ #26.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I just had a look through Captain America, and I just have to wonder why it's everyone's MOTW. I absolutely despise the plot device of "some dude we think is crazy/mentally incompetent will have exactly what we are looking for, and tell us, but we won't believe it because Hah! Old people!" or whatever. That isn't good writing. I did like the stuff about Cap's and Sharon's past, but it just wasn't great.
My head is currently spinning as they try to explain how Spidey's mind-wipe works. I thought Spider-Man was unaware of how the whole thing works and he was... I can't even type this out.
So if anybody can explain it, please help me understand.
I remember reading that, apart from the deal with the Devil which he is unaware of, there's another deal with some unknown figure that led to everyone forgetting his identity.
So there's the first deal, and then a second deal which arose from the changes caused by the first and allows the writers to make his identity public to some people without bringing Satan into things.
I just had a look through Captain America, and I just have to wonder why it's everyone's MOTW. I absolutely despise the plot device of "some dude we think is crazy/mentally incompetent will have exactly what we are looking for, and tell us, but we won't believe it because Hah! Old people!" or whatever. That isn't good writing.
What? That doesn't make any sense. It's not like it's a fake-out. Peggy is totally lost in her own mind. The fact that Bad Steve went to see her isn't proof she was right. He's doing what James did when he recovered his memories--tracking down people in his and Steve's past.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I just had a look through Captain America, and I just have to wonder why it's everyone's MOTW. I absolutely despise the plot device of "some dude we think is crazy/mentally incompetent will have exactly what we are looking for, and tell us, but we won't believe it because Hah! Old people!" or whatever. That isn't good writing.
What? That doesn't make any sense. It's not like it's a fake-out. Peggy is totally lost in her own mind. The fact that Bad Steve went to see her isn't proof she was right. He's doing what James did when he recovered his memories--tracking down people in his and Steve's past.
Eh, Sharon's trained to be a super paranoid spy, and with minimal effort, like asking one of her attendants or orderlies "Is anyone else visiting her", I just think that line should either have been changed to be much more obviously out of it, or it shouldn't have been included. Especially since they are looking for a guy that looks just like Cap.
My head is currently spinning as they try to explain how Spidey's mind-wipe works. I thought Spider-Man was unaware of how the whole thing works and he was... I can't even type this out.
So if anybody can explain it, please help me understand.
I remember reading that, apart from the deal with the Devil which he is unaware of, there's another deal with some unknown figure that led to everyone forgetting his identity.
So there's the first deal, and then a second deal which arose from the changes caused by the first and allows the writers to make his identity public to some people without bringing Satan into things.
::shaking head in disapproval smiley goes here::
FCD on
Gridman! Baby DAN DAN! Baby DAN DAN!
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
Yeah, there's a reason why I'm not going to touch Spidey titles for quite awhile either.
It would take the Best Spider-man Storyline Ever to get me back into this mess. And while it's not horrible from the previews I've seen, it's not nearly the Best Ever.
So if Peter shows his face to people they remember everything now?
What about the Avengers?!
What about the fact oh I don't know...HE WAS MARRIED?!
All of this reminds me why I don't read Spiderman.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
I just can't wait to read the doublethink in the interview about the Narnia logic screwup. Also, Jameson as the mayor of NYC? Norman as the head of all security in the US? Boy, that crazy Parker luck, huh? *cue wacky 70's theme music trumpet*
Also, the logic about Spider-Man 24/7 is stupid too. "If Jameson hates Spider-Man for the small time he's around in the day, boy, he'll be crrraaaazzyy about Spider-Man around 24 hours a day! Hyuck hyuck hyuck!"
*shrug* I don't care if people don't like it man... but isn't it time to get over it and move on with your lives?
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
When they try to force a plot point that doesn't make any sense (the time issue), people should call them on it. It just so happens it comes on top of the criticisms people have about the series since BND. That's what the editor is there for, and it kind of reinforces the idea that they think comic fans are idiots and will buy anything. I know, I see the Ultimatum and Hulk sales numbers, but still.
My dislike of BND aside, the only thing I really don't understand is not being able to nab consistency between the FF Reveal and the Avengers Reveal. It's not really that hard.
I agree that the time issue is stupid, and I agree that the lack of consistency is a problem (although in Daily Scans page I just read Reed mentions "firewalls" and "psychic blindspots" which I took to mean that the only reason the FF remember the "real" past is because Reed did the whammy on their brains before they saw his face.) If that's the case, then just a standard look at his face by the Avengers would not cause them to suddenly remember everything, right?
No, I'm talking about the general bellyaching about OMD/BND and the fact it hasn't been fully explained. They are clearly working towards it, laying ground work etc... if it makes people that unhappy at a fundamental level then they should probably just stop reading.
Oh and based on comments here, the FF are remembering the past post-Mephisto change. They aren't back to normal 616, they just remember everything that was changed as a result of this "second deal" that put Spidey's identity back in a bottle. If I can understand that based purely on comments and a few scans, I don't see why people reading the book are having such trouble with it.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited April 2009
Well, yeah. That's what S_D is for anyway *honk honk*
I think at this point there are a lot of people who stopped buying it, and are getting the info from the internet or reading it in the shop. Kind of like Ultimatum.
Which is fair enough, I just wish they didn't feel the need to continue bitching about it after they stopped reading it!
Most people tend to have an opinion about a great deal of things, you know like politics, not many of us are in politics but we still got an opinion. Doesn't mean we always follow it but we'll still say what we believe should there be a reason for it. Same deal here.
Besides, a few of us WOULD read Spiderman but we hate the current direction and think it's stupid. The fact they can't even kept the story straight here makes the whole concept even seem more idiotic to some of us out there.
I was able to stomach the whole clone thing, this is worse.
I think everyone would have moved on from BND by now if the writers had settled all the details within a few months of its inception. Instead, they're leaving matters unresolved for like a year, and on a book that ships three times a month that's like three years. Under circumstances like that, and especially after a two-parter that dealt specifically with the memory loss everyone had after BND, it's inevitable that people will feel compelled to reiterate their misgivings.
My interpretation of the FF/Avengers issue with the reveal is this:
Right now, anyone who knew Spider-Man was Peter Parker has blocks in their memory, so when they try to remember specifics about that issue, they just can't get it. It's like when you try to remember what actor was in that movie that time in that scene. You know, for a fact, that you once knew it, but you cannot remember it now.
When Parker reveals himself, all those blocks disappear, and suddenly you can make those connections again.
I don't think anything in Avengers is inconsistent with that.
Actually it was VERY inconsistent, with the FF they were acting like they had met a long lost friend who they knew everything about and shared the best of times with.
Thew Avengers were like "Oh whoever", not hey didn't you sign up with Iron Man at one point? They found out he was Peter Parker but they were acting like they were meeting him for the very first time ever except Jessica who then went on saying she had a crush on him in high school. Definitely not the kind of talks they would have had if they all "remembered" him.
I don't read Spider-man but even I hate BND and it's changes because it's an example of the type of retcon that DC and Marvel like to swing around these days that I absolutely hate.
So the more people that complain about BND and stop buying Spider-man, the more of the chance that Marvel will eventually reverse it, and the less of a chance of anyone attempting these types of retcons again.
Down with EVERYTHING YOU KNEW IS WRONG and LETS MAKE IT LIKE THE 70S AGAIN retcons!!
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
I don't read Spider-man but even I hate BND and it's changes because it's an example of the type of retcon that DC and Marvel like to swing around these days that I absolutely hate.
So the more people that complain about BND and stop buying Spider-man, the more of the chance that Marvel will eventually reverse it, and the less of a chance of anyone attempting these types of retcons again.
Down with EVERYTHING YOU KNEW IS WRONG and LETS MAKE IT LIKE THE 70S AGAIN retcons!!
Actually that's another reason lots of fans do hate it, not just because of what he said which is true enough but because they keep teasing Mary Jane and how she might actually know what happened. That and when they start to reveal Peters identity to everyone AGAIN people question what was the point?
You know besides having good ol Joe getting his wish that Pete was single again which goes to show that most writers and guys up top have zero idea how to really do relationships in comics, especially marriages.
Which is fair enough, I just wish they didn't feel the need to continue bitching about it after they stopped reading it!
Most people tend to have an opinion about a great deal of things, you know like politics, not many of us are in politics but we still got an opinion. Doesn't mean we always follow it but we'll still say what we believe should there be a reason for it. Same deal here.
Besides, a few of us WOULD read Spiderman but we hate the current direction and think it's stupid. The fact they can't even kept the story straight here makes the whole concept even seem more idiotic to some of us out there.
I was able to stomach the whole clone thing, this is worse.
Ummm politics affects your daily life, it's highly appropriate for people who aren't politicians to take an interest in politics. A more appropriate example in this case would be something like agonising over a bands new song after someone hums the tune for you.
The bit that cracks me up here is that you've already demonstrated a lack of understanding about the subject you're complaining about (your confusion about why the memory thing doesn't make people remember the wedding), so calling it idiotic seems rather ironic don't you think?
Opinions are easy to form, but informed opinions are actually worth something.
I don't read Spider-man but even I hate BND and it's changes because it's an example of the type of retcon that DC and Marvel like to swing around these days that I absolutely hate.
So the more people that complain about BND and stop buying Spider-man, the more of the chance that Marvel will eventually reverse it, and the less of a chance of anyone attempting these types of retcons again.
Down with EVERYTHING YOU KNEW IS WRONG and LETS MAKE IT LIKE THE 70S AGAIN retcons!!
Actually that's another reason lots of fans do hate it, not just because of what he said which is true enough but because they keep teasing Mary Jane and how she might actually know what happened. That and when they start to reveal Peters identity to everyone AGAIN people question what was the point?
You know besides having good ol Joe getting his wish that Pete was single again which goes to show that most writers and guys up top have zero idea how to really do relationships in comics, especially marriages.
God you're so right, lets just freeze the characters in amber so they remain pristine and unchanged forever! The point is to tell stories about Spider-man you complete tool.
Seriously, people bitched when it happened, they bitch when it's not explained instantly and now they're working towards a resolution guess what, more bitching! You, who have made it so clear that you don't like BND, are also complaining about the possibility that it will be reversed! All it really goes to show is that the vocal, mouth-breathing minority that have nothing better to do then complain about shit on the internet will not be pleased no matter what they do.
I'd also argue that it's not really a retcon. It's a plot. A retcon is something they do on the sly and then pretend has always been part of the characters back story (eg, Jessica Jones at Peter Parkers high school is a minor retcon).
This is a story that is driven by a change to the characters history brought about by that characters actions. It's a completely different animal.
I was able to stomach the whole clone thing, this is worse.
I hate the fact people still spout bullshit about the Clone Saga. It was not the worst Spider-Man story or era ever. Most seem to confuse the post-Clone Saga Mackie / Byrne stuff with the Clone Saga (shit like Gathering of Five, Final chapter, the reboot, etc).
Clone Saga also didn't tank the franchise. It was the 90's and shit went downhill for everyone, yet the Clone Saga increased sales and was well received by fans and critics alike for the first half or so until editorial / accounting stepped in with the mandate to continue it until they milked it for all it was worth (around Maximum Clonage).
Once the writers got their direction back and Ben in the Spidey suit, there was some really great stuff going on, such as Jurgen's Sensational Spider-Man, Blood Brothers and the eventual conclusion, Revelations.
In contrast, JMS's run on the book was far worse than anything that came before it and was responsible for the 'clone but not a clone' Ezekiel, fucking the origin up beyond belief with totem bullshit and multiple Spider-Men, The Other, Gwen fucking Norman and having bastard lovechilds behind Peter's back in Sin's Past, the whole Molten Man arc, the Unmasking (he wasnt behind it directly, but it was followed up in his title), Iron Spidey suit, and, just to keep this shit list brief, One More Day, the worst Spider-man story ever.
But ya, sales were up due to the industry being fairly stable throughout the 2000's making JMS's run look decent, so let's just keep perpetuating some myth about hte Clone Saga being the definition of garbage when most people havent even read it and just jump on the bandwagon. It wasn't the best nor was it the worst. It had high and low points, but was never as bad as what JMS did with the title and the Spider-Man franchise.
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
I still think the Totem could've been a good idea if it had been executed better. I mean, Peter's essentially a pretty good Trickster analogue, so being a representative of Anansi could have opened a lot of storylines for him.
Also, people have been complaining about BND being reversed because the reversal was always going to be shittily executed and sloppily and inconsistently handled. See: what is happening right now.
I was able to stomach the whole clone thing, this is worse.
I hate the fact people still spout bullshit about the Clone Saga. It was not the worst Spider-Man story or era ever. Most seem to confuse the post-Clone Saga Mackie / Byrne stuff with the Clone Saga (shit like Gathering of Five, Final chapter, the reboot, etc).
Clone Saga also didn't tank the franchise. It was the 90's and shit went downhill for everyone, yet the Clone Saga increased sales and was well received by fans and critics alike for the first half or so until editorial / accounting stepped in with the mandate to continue it until they milked it for all it was worth (around Maximum Clonage).
Once the writers got their direction back and Ben in the Spidey suit, there was some really great stuff going on, such as Jurgen's Sensational Spider-Man, Blood Brothers and the eventual conclusion, Revelations.
In contrast, JMS's run on the book was far worse than anything that came before it and was responsible for the 'clone but not a clone' Ezekiel, fucking the origin up beyond belief with totem bullshit and multiple Spider-Men, The Other, Gwen fucking Norman and having bastard lovechilds behind Peter's back in Sin's Past, the whole Molten Man arc, the Unmasking (he wasnt behind it directly, but it was followed up in his title), Iron Spidey suit, and, just to keep this shit list brief, One More Day, the worst Spider-man story ever.
But ya, sales were up due to the industry being fairly stable throughout the 2000's making JMS's run look decent, so let's just keep perpetuating some myth about hte Clone Saga being the definition of garbage when most people havent even read it and just jump on the bandwagon. It wasn't the best nor was it the worst. It had high and low points, but was never as bad as what JMS did with the title and the Spider-Man franchise.
I'd lime this, but that much lime would make people's heads explode.
Except that I also agree with Fencing, and think that the totem concept was not DOA, and could have some good points. I also kind of liked Ezekiel.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Posts
Wasn't the Wizzer before Flash or anyone else?
And aren't all the contemporary Flashes just knock-offs of at least the original Flash?
Anyway, there is still a Stilt-Man. Rhino talked Frank out of killing him (them, really) in PWJ #26.
I remember reading that, apart from the deal with the Devil which he is unaware of, there's another deal with some unknown figure that led to everyone forgetting his identity.
So there's the first deal, and then a second deal which arose from the changes caused by the first and allows the writers to make his identity public to some people without bringing Satan into things.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
What? That doesn't make any sense. It's not like it's a fake-out. Peggy is totally lost in her own mind. The fact that Bad Steve went to see her isn't proof she was right. He's doing what James did when he recovered his memories--tracking down people in his and Steve's past.
::shaking head in disapproval smiley goes here::
What about the Avengers?!
What about the fact oh I don't know...HE WAS MARRIED?!
All of this reminds me why I don't read Spiderman.
Also, the logic about Spider-Man 24/7 is stupid too. "If Jameson hates Spider-Man for the small time he's around in the day, boy, he'll be crrraaaazzyy about Spider-Man around 24 hours a day! Hyuck hyuck hyuck!"
No, I'm talking about the general bellyaching about OMD/BND and the fact it hasn't been fully explained. They are clearly working towards it, laying ground work etc... if it makes people that unhappy at a fundamental level then they should probably just stop reading.
Oh and based on comments here, the FF are remembering the past post-Mephisto change. They aren't back to normal 616, they just remember everything that was changed as a result of this "second deal" that put Spidey's identity back in a bottle. If I can understand that based purely on comments and a few scans, I don't see why people reading the book are having such trouble with it.
I think at this point there are a lot of people who stopped buying it, and are getting the info from the internet or reading it in the shop. Kind of like Ultimatum.
Most people tend to have an opinion about a great deal of things, you know like politics, not many of us are in politics but we still got an opinion. Doesn't mean we always follow it but we'll still say what we believe should there be a reason for it. Same deal here.
Besides, a few of us WOULD read Spiderman but we hate the current direction and think it's stupid. The fact they can't even kept the story straight here makes the whole concept even seem more idiotic to some of us out there.
I was able to stomach the whole clone thing, this is worse.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Right now, anyone who knew Spider-Man was Peter Parker has blocks in their memory, so when they try to remember specifics about that issue, they just can't get it. It's like when you try to remember what actor was in that movie that time in that scene. You know, for a fact, that you once knew it, but you cannot remember it now.
When Parker reveals himself, all those blocks disappear, and suddenly you can make those connections again.
I don't think anything in Avengers is inconsistent with that.
Thew Avengers were like "Oh whoever", not hey didn't you sign up with Iron Man at one point? They found out he was Peter Parker but they were acting like they were meeting him for the very first time ever except Jessica who then went on saying she had a crush on him in high school. Definitely not the kind of talks they would have had if they all "remembered" him.
So the more people that complain about BND and stop buying Spider-man, the more of the chance that Marvel will eventually reverse it, and the less of a chance of anyone attempting these types of retcons again.
Down with EVERYTHING YOU KNEW IS WRONG and LETS MAKE IT LIKE THE 70S AGAIN retcons!!
You don't gripe about things that people ruin that you liked before?
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
Actually that's another reason lots of fans do hate it, not just because of what he said which is true enough but because they keep teasing Mary Jane and how she might actually know what happened. That and when they start to reveal Peters identity to everyone AGAIN people question what was the point?
You know besides having good ol Joe getting his wish that Pete was single again which goes to show that most writers and guys up top have zero idea how to really do relationships in comics, especially marriages.
Ummm politics affects your daily life, it's highly appropriate for people who aren't politicians to take an interest in politics. A more appropriate example in this case would be something like agonising over a bands new song after someone hums the tune for you.
The bit that cracks me up here is that you've already demonstrated a lack of understanding about the subject you're complaining about (your confusion about why the memory thing doesn't make people remember the wedding), so calling it idiotic seems rather ironic don't you think?
Opinions are easy to form, but informed opinions are actually worth something.
Sure I do. And then I get over it, like a normal person.
God you're so right, lets just freeze the characters in amber so they remain pristine and unchanged forever! The point is to tell stories about Spider-man you complete tool.
Seriously, people bitched when it happened, they bitch when it's not explained instantly and now they're working towards a resolution guess what, more bitching! You, who have made it so clear that you don't like BND, are also complaining about the possibility that it will be reversed! All it really goes to show is that the vocal, mouth-breathing minority that have nothing better to do then complain about shit on the internet will not be pleased no matter what they do.
I'd also argue that it's not really a retcon. It's a plot. A retcon is something they do on the sly and then pretend has always been part of the characters back story (eg, Jessica Jones at Peter Parkers high school is a minor retcon).
This is a story that is driven by a change to the characters history brought about by that characters actions. It's a completely different animal.
I hate the fact people still spout bullshit about the Clone Saga. It was not the worst Spider-Man story or era ever. Most seem to confuse the post-Clone Saga Mackie / Byrne stuff with the Clone Saga (shit like Gathering of Five, Final chapter, the reboot, etc).
Clone Saga also didn't tank the franchise. It was the 90's and shit went downhill for everyone, yet the Clone Saga increased sales and was well received by fans and critics alike for the first half or so until editorial / accounting stepped in with the mandate to continue it until they milked it for all it was worth (around Maximum Clonage).
Once the writers got their direction back and Ben in the Spidey suit, there was some really great stuff going on, such as Jurgen's Sensational Spider-Man, Blood Brothers and the eventual conclusion, Revelations.
In contrast, JMS's run on the book was far worse than anything that came before it and was responsible for the 'clone but not a clone' Ezekiel, fucking the origin up beyond belief with totem bullshit and multiple Spider-Men, The Other, Gwen fucking Norman and having bastard lovechilds behind Peter's back in Sin's Past, the whole Molten Man arc, the Unmasking (he wasnt behind it directly, but it was followed up in his title), Iron Spidey suit, and, just to keep this shit list brief, One More Day, the worst Spider-man story ever.
But ya, sales were up due to the industry being fairly stable throughout the 2000's making JMS's run look decent, so let's just keep perpetuating some myth about hte Clone Saga being the definition of garbage when most people havent even read it and just jump on the bandwagon. It wasn't the best nor was it the worst. It had high and low points, but was never as bad as what JMS did with the title and the Spider-Man franchise.
Also, people have been complaining about BND being reversed because the reversal was always going to be shittily executed and sloppily and inconsistently handled. See: what is happening right now.
I'd lime this, but that much lime would make people's heads explode.
Except that I also agree with Fencing, and think that the totem concept was not DOA, and could have some good points. I also kind of liked Ezekiel.
But that will be my MOTW when uncanny 509 comes out.